1426: "Reduce your payment"

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dalcde
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1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby dalcde » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:04 am UTC

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Title text: "I tried oxidizing them, but your bank uses some really weird paper and it wouldn't light."

Sorry I'm using electronic payments.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby Eternal Density » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:05 am UTC

Mortgage payments... that's that thing which people who pretend to own a house do, right?
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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby Mikeski » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:21 am UTC

dalcde wrote:Sorry I'm using electronic payments.

What?
7-zip.
...I hate you.

Eternal Density wrote:Mortgage payments... that's that thing which people who pretend to own a house do, right?

I always said I owned part of my house (while the bank owns the rest). So over time, it went from "I own my toilet" to "I own my bedroom" to "I own the living room" to "I own the main floor"...

I own it all now, though. It helps to buy a house you can afford, rather than the twice- or thrice-as-expensive one that your bank said you could afford.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby addams » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:31 am UTC

Someone do the chemistry!
I'll watch from over here.

Hand out lab glasses.
This could be good.
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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby iabervon » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:49 am UTC

Actually, that's not a weird trick for reducing your mortgage payments; most people's mortgage payments are reduced with sodium borohydride.as part of the recycling process. Dithiothreitol would be a weird trick for reducing your mortgage payments.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby chenille » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:56 am UTC

I've also heard there is a weird trick to kill belly fat, and now I'm certain I don't want to know any more about it.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby dalcde » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:10 am UTC

chenille wrote:I've also heard there is a weird trick to kill belly fat, and now I'm certain I don't want to know any more about it.

Handgun?

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby Eternal Density » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:19 am UTC

dalcde wrote:
chenille wrote:I've also heard there is a weird trick to kill belly fat, and now I'm certain I don't want to know any more about it.

Handgun?

Relevant xkc... oh,
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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby da Doctah » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:37 am UTC

Mikeski wrote:I always said I owned part of my house (while the bank owns the rest). So over time, it went from "I own my toilet" to "I own my bedroom" to "I own the living room" to "I own the main floor"....


There was a story many years ago about some guy who financed his car over two years (that alone should tell you how old this story is). The day he drove it home, he painted a stripe alongside it on the garage floor, and every month he'd go out and repaint one twenty-fourth of the stripe a different color to show what portion of the car was the bank's and what portion was his.

(Pause now while the math dweebs rewrite the story to take the non-linear rate of amortization into account.)

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby SomeGuyNamedDavid » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:53 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:
Mikeski wrote:(Pause now while the math dweebs rewrite the story to take the non-linear rate of amortization into account.)

Don't forget the non-linear rate of car mass distribution, barring the chance that your car is perfectly flat.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby Envelope Generator » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:04 am UTC

If you're in the UK, you can contact your local trebuchet club to drop £30 FAST.
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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby eviloatmeal » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:38 am UTC

SomeGuyNamedDavid wrote:Don't forget the non-linear rate of car mass distribution, barring the chance that your car is perfectly flat.

More importantly, the non-uniform value and volume of the car parts. Still, I wouldn't expect a positive result from barging into a dealership after paying down your car for 24 months, last check in hand, yelling "these tires you're trying to sell me look like they've been used for years!!".
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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:28 am UTC

Hey, look: Chemistry jokes!
more: [url = http://www.inorganicventures.com/fun-chemists]stupid ones [/url]

Or this old fave:
merbenz.jpg


Anyone have a drawing of the ferrous wheel?
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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby jigawatt » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:04 pm UTC

Mortgage payments... that's that thing which people who pretend to own a house do, right?


Yes, but just a handful less than you actually own anything at all. Ever heard of the IRS? Or the EPA? The NSA? Heck, just about any three letter acronym will do.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:38 pm UTC

jigawatt wrote:
Mortgage payments... that's that thing which people who pretend to own a house do, right?


Yes, but just a handful less than you actually own anything at all. Ever heard of the IRS? Or the EPA? The NSA? Heck, just about any three letter acronym will do.


And software companies have been saying for years that they're not selling you anything - they're licensing use of their software...

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby BrianK » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:30 pm UTC

If he wants to oxidize the mortgage statement, maybe he should use chlorine trifluoride.

The compound also a stronger oxidizing agent than oxygen itself, which also puts it into rare territory. That means that it can potentially go on to “burn” things that you would normally consider already burnt to hell and gone, and a practical consequence of that is that it’ll start roaring reactions with things like bricks and asbestos tile.


I'll just make sure I'm a few miles upwind when he gives it a try.
Last edited by BrianK on Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:57 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby orthogon » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:36 pm UTC

SomeGuyNamedDavid wrote:
da Doctah wrote:
Mikeski wrote:(Pause now while the math dweebs rewrite the story to take the non-linear rate of amortization into account.)

Don't forget the non-linear rate of car mass distribution, barring the chance that your car is perfectly flat.

It's even worse. The car may be depreciating faster than you're paying off the debt, so you might actually owe more than the car is worth and be in negative equity. This graph is for finance over 48 months at 18% annual interest, assuming the car depreciates at 30% per year. You own less than none of it until month 34:

CarEquity.PNG
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby zenten » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:04 pm UTC

I got so confused by this one because it took me awhile to see what paper had to do with bill payments.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby Keyman » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:35 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
SomeGuyNamedDavid wrote:
da Doctah wrote:
Mikeski wrote:(Pause now while the math dweebs rewrite the story to take the non-linear rate of amortization into account.)

Don't forget the non-linear rate of car mass distribution, barring the chance that your car is perfectly flat.

It's even worse. The car may be depreciating faster than you're paying off the debt, so you might actually owe more than the car is worth and be in negative equity. This graph is for finance over 48 months at 18% annual interest, assuming the car depreciates at 30% per year. You own less than none of it until month 34:

CarEquity.PNG

If you *are* paying 18% interest, you *deserve* to not own the car.
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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby Xenomortis » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:40 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:It's even worse. The car may be depreciating faster than you're paying off the debt, so you might actually owe more than the car is worth and be in negative equity.

Given the value of a new car can drop by 30% as soon as it leaves the forecourt, negative equity is normal.
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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:49 pm UTC

Eternal Density wrote:Mortgage payments... that's that thing which people who pretend to own a house do, right?


Dunno, I have gotten endless advertisements regarding them sent to my apartment. And yet, I keep hearing about how much advertisers know about me....

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby orthogon » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:04 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:Mortgage payments... that's that thing which people who pretend to own a house do, right?


Dunno, I have gotten endless advertisements regarding them sent to my apartment. And yet, I keep hearing about how much advertisers know about me....

Well, thanks to the research I did to create my plot above, I fear the Internets are now going to spend the next 10 years trying to sell me a second-hand Ford Focus on a finance deal... Should have used incognito mode :-(
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby hamjudo » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:13 pm UTC

If the goal is to shrink a mortgage payment, try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanforization. At least it works on cotton and wool.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby eidako » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:21 am UTC

jigawatt wrote:
Mortgage payments... that's that thing which people who pretend to own a house do, right?

Yes, but just a handful less than you actually own anything at all. Ever heard of the IRS? Or the EPA? The NSA? Heck, just about any three letter acronym will do.

Or a non-acronym that allows even corporations to join in the fun: eminent domain.

"You say this land has been in your family for four generations? That's great and all, but there's natural gas under it. We're going to build a gas storage facility here, which will net us -- we the corporation, not you -- billions of dollars in profits. Here's a one-time payment of a few thousand dollars. You refuse? I don't think you understand us correctly. We're not asking, we're taking it under eminent domain. The price is not negotiable. It's for the public good, you know."

(This is a true story. The land belonged to Native Americans prior to my family owning it, so I guess what comes around goes around. My dad on the other hand has lost a significant chunk of his net worth in a futile legal battle against them and is still at it.)

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby RogueCynic » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:13 am UTC

eidako wrote:
jigawatt wrote:
Mortgage payments... that's that thing which people who pretend to own a house do, right?

Yes, but just a handful less than you actually own anything at all. Ever heard of the IRS? Or the EPA? The NSA? Heck, just about any three letter acronym will do.

Or a non-acronym that allows even corporations to join in the fun: eminent domain.

"You say this land has been in your family for four generations? That's great and all, but there's natural gas under it. We're going to build a gas storage facility here, which will net us -- we the corporation, not you -- billions of dollars in profits. Here's a one-time payment of a few thousand dollars. You refuse? I don't think you understand us correctly. We're not asking, we're taking it under eminent domain. The price is not negotiable. It's for the public good, you know."

(This is a true story. The land belonged to Native Americans prior to my family owning it, so I guess what comes around goes around. My dad on the other hand has lost a significant chunk of his net worth in a futile legal battle against them and is still at it.)


The definition of eminent domain is the person who makes the most money gets the land. Someone in Rhode Island lost their home because a developer wanted to build a hotel on the parcel. They fought it all the way to the US Supreme Court. Good luck with the fight, Eidako.
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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby ManaUser » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:12 pm UTC

BrianK wrote:If he wants to oxidize the mortgage statement, maybe he should use chlorine trifluoride.

Not dioxygen difluoride?

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby Xenomortis » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:22 pm UTC

Risky; you might oxidize the house too.
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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby willpellmn » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:44 pm UTC

But was the weird trick discovered by a mom, and do car companies hope you don't know it?

I was a mattress tag once, but then I found out I was being ripped off.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby ps.02 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:57 am UTC

cellocgw wrote:Or this old fave:

Thanks, cello. It may be "old," but as I hadn't seen it before, I laughed for 5 minutes straight. Or maybe just one minute, time sense is weird like that. Anyway, hilarious.

orthogon wrote:This graph is for finance over 48 months at 18% annual interest, assuming the car depreciates at 30% per year.

Yes, but the anecdote said 24 months. Which changes the graph quite a lot - even at 18% APR, which itself seems insane to me.

Not to say you can't still be underwater, thanks to the immediate and discontinous depreciation, and a loan without a significant down payment requirement. Also, if your car is ever literally underwater, your loan probably will be too....

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:16 am UTC

RogueCynic wrote:The definition of eminent domain is the person who makes the most money gets the land. Someone in Rhode Island lost their home because a developer wanted to build a hotel on the parcel. They fought it all the way to the US Supreme Court. Good luck with the fight, Eidako.


Well technically it's "Government takes land to provide for public good".

However, it seems "we're taking your land, and giving it to a private company... and they'll generate a ton of public good through that" is way too often what happens, and needs to be restricted more thoroughly.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby orthogon » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:08 pm UTC

ps.02 wrote:
cellocgw wrote:Or this old fave:

Thanks, cello. It may be "old," but as I hadn't seen it before, I laughed for 5 minutes straight. Or maybe just one minute, time sense is weird like that. Anyway, hilarious.

orthogon wrote:This graph is for finance over 48 months at 18% annual interest, assuming the car depreciates at 30% per year.

Yes, but the anecdote said 24 months. Which changes the graph quite a lot - even at 18% APR, which itself seems insane to me.

Not to say you can't still be underwater, thanks to the immediate and discontinous depreciation, and a loan without a significant down payment requirement. Also, if your car is ever literally underwater, your loan probably will be too....

You're right, I twerked the parameters to make the more general point. If we go for 10% interest over 24 months it never quite goes negative, but it does take four months before you own a twenty-fourth of the car. I got the 18% from some web page which gave it as the upper end of what you might pay for car finance, i.e. if you had a poor credit rating. But given people regularly borrow from their credit cards at something around the 20% mark and pay thousands of percent for "payday loans", I would say that 18% is toward the saner end of consumer credit...

Edit: For the record, I have never, in my life, knowingly twerked.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby ps.02 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:11 am UTC

orthogon wrote:You're right, I twerked the parameters to make the more general point. If we go for 10% interest over 24 months it never quite goes negative, but it does take four months before you own a twenty-fourth of the car.

I should point out, the other thing I find fishy about your graph is how you end up with more equity than the value of the vehicle. That's ... not possible, is it?
I got the 18% from some web page which gave it as the upper end of what you might pay for car finance, i.e. if you had a poor credit rating. But given people regularly borrow from their credit cards at something around the 20% mark and pay thousands of percent for "payday loans", I would say that 18% is toward the saner end of consumer credit...

Consumer credit, maybe. But are auto loans generally considered "consumer credit"? I always mentally put them in a category closer to home loans, though I know the terms are a lot shorter. And 18% for a home loan would be kinda ridiculous. (Though not, I gather, unheard-of in the late 1970s.)

Also though, I'm economically irrational in the other direction: trying to quickly pay off a very low fixed-rate home loan. If I had any sense, I'd string it out as long as possible, let Uncle Sam keep subsidizing the interest via tax deduction, and find ways to invest my savings elsewhere for potentially a lot more than a few percent APR. Anyway that's how much I despise being in debt. So to me, taking on something at 18% just seems insane.
Edit: For the record, I have never, in my life, knowingly twerked.

Sure, you say that now. I bet there were wild parties in your youth at which, you know, you accidentally the whole thing.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby orthogon » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:14 am UTC

ps.02 wrote:
orthogon wrote:You're right, I twerked the parameters to make the more general point. If we go for 10% interest over 24 months it never quite goes negative, but it does take four months before you own a twenty-fourth of the car.

I should point out, the other thing I find fishy about your graph is how you end up with more equity than the value of the vehicle. That's ... not possible, is it?

The curve labelled "equity" is the proportion of the car that you own, i.e. the it's your share of the current value , not the original value. Hence it always ends up at 100%, even if it's 100% of not very much. I thought that was how the word equity was normally used, but it seems I might be wrong.
ps.02 wrote:
I got the 18% from some web page which gave it as the upper end of what you might pay for car finance, i.e. if you had a poor credit rating. But given people regularly borrow from their credit cards at something around the 20% mark and pay thousands of percent for "payday loans", I would say that 18% is toward the saner end of consumer credit...

Consumer credit, maybe. But are auto loans generally considered "consumer credit"? I always mentally put them in a category closer to home loans, though I know the terms are a lot shorter. And 18% for a home loan would be kinda ridiculous. (Though not, I gather, unheard-of in the late 1970s.)

Also though, I'm economically irrational in the other direction: trying to quickly pay off a very low fixed-rate home loan. If I had any sense, I'd string it out as long as possible, let Uncle Sam keep subsidizing the interest via tax deduction, and find ways to invest my savings elsewhere for potentially a lot more than a few percent APR. Anyway that's how much I despise being in debt. So to me, taking on something at 18% just seems insane.

I pretty much agree; that's partly why I don't much about typical interest rates on car loans. That and the fact that I've never owned a car (in the UK, at least: I did briefly have a 50% share of a 1982-ish Chevrolet Citation, bought for US$895 in San Jose and practically given away for $95 in Washington Heights, NYC four weeks later: an annual depreciation rate of 99.999999999%). Having said that, when my mortgage interest rate fell to 2.5% after the financial crash, even I couldn't see the point paying it off when I could get that in a (tax-free) ISA with instant access. It's just a different type of risk-averseness. I can cope with being in debt to one party indefinitely if I have the same amount of money sat somewhere else that I could use at any time to pay it off; and I get the peace of mind that if suddenly have to fix the roof or the central heating, I can get the cash straight away. Similarly, I used to avoid using my credit card, even with the interest-free period, but when they started paying me cashback to use it, I had to accept that you don't look a negative interest rate in the mouth...
ps.02 wrote:
Edit: For the record, I have never, in my life, knowingly twerked.

Sure, you say that now. I bet there were wild parties in your youth at which, you know, you accidentally the whole thing.

:) I don't know how long that filter has been in place; a leftover from the latest Madness?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby BrianK » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:41 pm UTC

ManaUser wrote:
BrianK wrote:If he wants to oxidize the mortgage statement, maybe he should use chlorine trifluoride.

Not dioxygen difluoride?


I was going on the hypothesis that they had somehow managed to print the bill on something that was immune to reacting with oxygen but would succumb to the wiley ways of ClF3. Because, ya know, *everything* reacts with ClF3.
My knowledge of FOOF chemistry is a bit sparse. If it does all of it's dirty work with the fluorine instead of the oxygen, then it might be worth trying, too.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby 5th Earth » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:07 pm UTC

An old chemistry teacher of mine showed us this one:

Bun - O - ny

An ether bunny.
It seemed like a good idea at the time.

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Re: 1426: "Reduce your payment"

Postby Introbulus » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:11 pm UTC

Oh yeah...people pay off loans that don't have anything to do with school.

Spoiler:
I will probably be paid off on that particular loan in 3 years, AKA when I turn 30. :(
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