1519: “Venus”

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Qaanol
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1519: “Venus”

Postby Qaanol » Fri May 01, 2015 4:41 am UTC

http://xkcd.com/1519/

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Title: “The sudden introduction of Venusian flowers led to an explosive growth of unusual Earth pollinators, which became known as the "butterfly effect."”

I’m pretty sure everyone who gets tenure does this all the time, because why not?
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby rhomboidal » Fri May 01, 2015 5:22 am UTC

She still makes more sense than climate change deniers.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby keithl » Fri May 01, 2015 6:54 am UTC

At least two complicated blackboard or projected images is a lot of work for someone who doesn't care. To help lazy retiring teachers, we must create projectable images for them. But I am too lazy, also.

BTW, I also deny there is a "greenhouse effect". There is, however the fact that CO2 is opaque at important thermal infrared wavelengths. Increasing atmospheric CO2 density raises the altitude at which CO2 becomes thin enough to be transparent, where it is now colder. Those high altitudes heat up until the black body infrared emissions rise back up to match the power absorbed from the sun. That heats up the air column underneath, down to the surface. David Archer's book Global Warming: Understanding the Forecast explains this well, with just enough algebra for the numerate to verify the reasoning.

Also, read the Ruddiman's book Plows, Plagues, and Petroleum for a more plausible explanation of the "little Ice Age" (it was slash-and-burn American Indians dying in droves, and American forests returning, not sunspots) and the Tellus paper Contribution of anthropogenic land cover change emissions to pre-industrial atmospheric CO2 by Reick et. al. for an important source of emissions that most "greens" ignore.

Political arguments and propaganda (of any flavor) are poor substitutes for physics knowledge and phenomenological observation.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Plasma_Wolf » Fri May 01, 2015 6:58 am UTC

Interesting, I wonder why I read about this bit of my country's history for the first time. I always wondered where the greenhouses came from, but I never got an answer this plausible :mrgreen:

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby peregrine_crow » Fri May 01, 2015 7:48 am UTC

Plasma_Wolf wrote:Interesting, I wonder why I read about this bit of my country's history for the first time. I always wondered where the greenhouses came from, but I never got an answer this plausible :mrgreen:


I notice that I see a lot of people (more than I would expect) on these forums mention that they are from the Netherlands. Does anyone know if this is because:

1) Dutch people are overrepresented amongst xkcd readership,
2) Dutch people are somehow more likely to mention that they are Dutch than people of other nationalities,
3) I just notice it more often when people mention that they are from the same country as me (I'm also Dutch) or
4) The Netherlands are awesome, so a lot of people pretend that they are from here :P ?
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Neil_Boekend » Fri May 01, 2015 8:03 am UTC

On that same vein: I'm Dutch too.
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Quercus » Fri May 01, 2015 8:07 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:On that same vein: I'm Dutch too.


I was actually about to suggest that your hat was the reason Dutch people seem overrepresented on the fora. It's kinda noticeable.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Lazy Tommy » Fri May 01, 2015 8:12 am UTC

peregrine_crow wrote:I notice that I see a lot of people (more than I would expect) on these forums mention that they are from the Netherlands. Does anyone know if this is because:

1) Dutch people are overrepresented amongst xkcd readership,
2) Dutch people are somehow more likely to mention that they are Dutch than people of other nationalities,
3) I just notice it more often when people mention that they are from the same country as me (I'm also Dutch) or
4) The Netherlands are awesome, so a lot of people pretend that they are from here :P ?


The Netherlands are a small country, which leads to some of its citizens having an over-compensated inferiority complex, which leads to #2; the country has a high rate of Internet connectivity, and fluency in English is very common, which leads to Dutch people being over-represented on the Internet in general, which leads to #1; confirmation bias leads to #3; and finally, the Netherlands actually are awesome, so forget all the other reasons.

(I'm going to join the pattern by mentioning that I'm a Dutch expat living in the U.S.)

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Neil_Boekend » Fri May 01, 2015 8:15 am UTC

Quercus wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:On that same vein: I'm Dutch too.


I was actually about to suggest that your hat was the reason Dutch people seem overrepresented on the fora. It's kinda noticeable.

Thanks. When Buffygirl gave it to me I solemnly swore that I would take it with me on all my avatars until the day I forgot. The one in the current avatar is a real life version that I made for a meet.
It was quite useful IRL because I was easy to find in a crowd.
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby orthogon » Fri May 01, 2015 8:31 am UTC

I always thought there was something a bit strange about tulips. And Dutch people. (Just kidding, you guys are awesome!) Presumably Mercury's reduced gravity explains your taller average height, and also made the development and adoption of the bicycle easier.
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Neil_Boekend » Fri May 01, 2015 8:48 am UTC

I would like to note that we do NOT thrive in an atmosphere of 96% CO2 with some SO2 and HF mixed in for fun. Just like humans. We lost that ability centuries ago.
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Eternal Density » Fri May 01, 2015 8:52 am UTC

Screaming bird of truth? Is that a reference to something?
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Quercus » Fri May 01, 2015 9:26 am UTC

orthogon wrote:I always thought there was something a bit strange about tulips.

There was something a bit strange about tulips, at least in 1637.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby peregrine_crow » Fri May 01, 2015 9:36 am UTC

Lazy Tommy wrote:The Netherlands are a small country, which leads to some of its citizens having an over-compensated inferiority complex, which leads to #2; the country has a high rate of Internet connectivity, and fluency in English is very common, which leads to Dutch people being over-represented on the Internet in general, which leads to #1; confirmation bias leads to #3; and finally, the Netherlands actually are awesome, so forget all the other reasons.

So basically, 5) all of the above?
Quercus wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:On that same vein: I'm Dutch too.

I was actually about to suggest that your hat was the reason Dutch people seem overrepresented on the fora. It's kinda noticeable.

Maybe for other people, but I have images disabled when I browse these forums, so I wouldn't be influenced by that. (I briefly re-enabled them, and it is a really cool hat, so I see why you would think that :D)

Edit: To be clear: I disable images on forums on general principle (and to make it less obvious that I'm doing non-work related stuff at work) not to prevent being influenced by Neil_Boekends hat, that is an unintended side effect.
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby klausok » Fri May 01, 2015 10:07 am UTC

But if it is the tulips that are alien, why is it grass and birch which causes most pollen allergies?

Oh, and to slightly unskew the statistics, I am from another country (than the Netherlands), and I have now mentioned it.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby pkcommando » Fri May 01, 2015 10:41 am UTC

klausok wrote:But if it is the tulips that are alien, why is it grass and birch which causes most pollen allergies?

Because then we'd suspect the tulips are alien. Thus PROVING that tulips are alien.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby HES » Fri May 01, 2015 10:53 am UTC

Randal seems to have quite an interest in the Netherlands, I guess in order to appease our future overlords.
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Flumble » Fri May 01, 2015 11:24 am UTC

Let me take the time to inform you that I, too, am Dutch.

HES wrote:Randal seems to have quite an interest in the Netherlands, I guess in order to appease our future overlords.

World domination (fantasies! Trust me, they're only fantasies!) aside, it's interesting how the Netherlands seems to get more attention than any other European country in xkcd. Is it because we are the underdog in the middle (and more special than Belgium and Luxembourg for our battles against water)?

I wonder how they kept the advanced greenhouses a secret until a few centuries ago.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Neil_Boekend » Fri May 01, 2015 11:43 am UTC

I am mainly curious how Randall found out about our plot to take over the world. Only the leaders of the nations of the world our puppets should know about it during this phase. Is he secretly a national leader in disguise?
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Sombrero Cat » Fri May 01, 2015 12:51 pm UTC

The Dutch tulip crisis, funny.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby WilliamLehnsherr » Fri May 01, 2015 12:59 pm UTC

I try to take into account double negatives when I reply to a question, but "yes, I do not" doesn't sound right.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby algorerhythms » Fri May 01, 2015 1:02 pm UTC

Beware the plants from Venus, for they crave flesh.
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Mishrak » Fri May 01, 2015 1:24 pm UTC

I literally had a high school english teacher do pretty much that in the last panel. Except she didn't care how she graded, rather than what she said. She was retiring that year and when she failed a class of 40 seniors on their term paper, she became a tentacle demon and devoured our tears.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby orthogon » Fri May 01, 2015 1:36 pm UTC

WilliamLehnsherr wrote:I try to take into account double negatives when I reply to a question, but "yes, I do not" doesn't sound right.

Yes, it doesn't sound right to me neither.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby mathmannix » Fri May 01, 2015 1:43 pm UTC

Anybody else get a flashback involving 450 launch arcos?

Eternal Density wrote:Screaming bird of truth? Is that a reference to something?

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Dr What » Fri May 01, 2015 1:55 pm UTC

I ride the skies atop a screaming bird

reminds me of this:
woodpecker-weasel-_3217739c.jpg

:lol:

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby pkcommando » Fri May 01, 2015 2:15 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:I literally had a high school english teacher do pretty much that in the last panel. Except she didn't care how she graded, rather than what she said. She was retiring that year and when she failed a class of 40 seniors on their term paper, she became a tentacle demon and devoured our tears.

I once had the good fortune of taking a Mesoamerican archaeology class w/ a professor who landed her ideal job towards the end of the semester. She still did a great job teaching us, but she took a "fuck it all" approach to grading and gave everyone a 4.0 to celebrate.

Of course, after getting a 2.0 on a grueling first exam, I'd run out and bought the (somewhat expensive) textbook - only to have it all mean nothing. I mean, sure, I get the satisfaction of knowing that I really doubled-down and put shit-tons of work into that class and was making real improvements, but damn! I nearly killed myself putting together my presentation on Mayan hieroglyphs. I never had a grade that was so sweet, yet so painful.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby rmsgrey » Fri May 01, 2015 2:57 pm UTC

pkcommando wrote:
Mishrak wrote:I literally had a high school english teacher do pretty much that in the last panel. Except she didn't care how she graded, rather than what she said. She was retiring that year and when she failed a class of 40 seniors on their term paper, she became a tentacle demon and devoured our tears.

I once had the good fortune of taking a Mesoamerican archaeology class w/ a professor who landed her ideal job towards the end of the semester. She still did a great job teaching us, but she took a "fuck it all" approach to grading and gave everyone a 4.0 to celebrate.

Of course, after getting a 2.0 on a grueling first exam, I'd run out and bought the (somewhat expensive) textbook - only to have it all mean nothing. I mean, sure, I get the satisfaction of knowing that I really doubled-down and put shit-tons of work into that class and was making real improvements, but damn! I nearly killed myself putting together my presentation on Mayan hieroglyphs. I never had a grade that was so sweet, yet so painful.


You should know whether you've learned stuff - making the grade the point of a course is putting the cart before the horse...

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri May 01, 2015 6:14 pm UTC

HES wrote:Randal seems to have quite an interest in the Netherlands, I guess in order to appease our future overlords.
I would suggest that Dutch-ness is inherently funny, much like cheese, ducks, and Albuquerque . Not to suggest in any way there's anything wrong with any of those, or even anything unusual.
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:I try to take into account double negatives when I reply to a question, but "yes, I do not" doesn't sound right.
I'll almost never use a negative in a question, because people are never sure (or are sure of different things) what a simple "yes" or "no" response means. When I get one I'll tend to answer in this format ("yes, I don't", "no, I do") for clarity. (Yes, your suspicion is correct that I don't care.)
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Plasma_Wolf » Fri May 01, 2015 6:18 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
pkcommando wrote:
Mishrak wrote:I literally had a high school english teacher do pretty much that in the last panel. Except she didn't care how she graded, rather than what she said. She was retiring that year and when she failed a class of 40 seniors on their term paper, she became a tentacle demon and devoured our tears.

I once had the good fortune of taking a Mesoamerican archaeology class w/ a professor who landed her ideal job towards the end of the semester. She still did a great job teaching us, but she took a "fuck it all" approach to grading and gave everyone a 4.0 to celebrate.

Of course, after getting a 2.0 on a grueling first exam, I'd run out and bought the (somewhat expensive) textbook - only to have it all mean nothing. I mean, sure, I get the satisfaction of knowing that I really doubled-down and put shit-tons of work into that class and was making real improvements, but damn! I nearly killed myself putting together my presentation on Mayan hieroglyphs. I never had a grade that was so sweet, yet so painful.


You should know whether you've learned stuff - making the grade the point of a course is putting the cart before the horse...


In that respect, giving everyone a 4.0 (what kind of grading system is that?) is like letting someone get on the horse without attaching the cart. Everyone will say you get there, but only you're only there for show.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Heimhenge » Fri May 01, 2015 6:55 pm UTC

Eternal Density wrote:Screaming bird of truth? Is that a reference to something?


Not sure, but it's a great expression and I might just start using it myself. Only reference I could find was a bass player called Norm "The Screaming Bird Of Truth" Demoura on a 2003 blues album by one Susan Tedeschi. The guy is probably from the Netherlands, so why don't one of you just ask him where he got that?

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby fangbeer » Fri May 01, 2015 7:06 pm UTC

Is the moral here that we need to be better stewards of our greenhouses, or is it that we could be fine if we simply develop more economical space travel so that we can follow them on their next adventure?

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby da Doctah » Fri May 01, 2015 8:46 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:I try to take into account double negatives when I reply to a question, but "yes, I do not" doesn't sound right.
I'll almost never use a negative in a question, because people are never sure (or are sure of different things) what a simple "yes" or "no" response means. When I get one I'll tend to answer in this format ("yes, I don't", "no, I do") for clarity. (Yes, your suspicion is correct that I don't care.)

Id be far from lying if I neglected to deny that I couldn't help but fail to disagree less.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Lee_Dailey » Fri May 01, 2015 10:09 pm UTC

howdy y'all,

i dearly love "explain it like calvin's dad would" explanations. [*grin*] this thread has [at least] TWO of them! wheee! [*grin*]

obligatory link to ELIC @ reddit ...
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- http://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainLikeImCalvin/

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Quercus » Sat May 02, 2015 1:36 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:I try to take into account double negatives when I reply to a question, but "yes, I do not" doesn't sound right.
I'll almost never use a negative in a question, because people are never sure (or are sure of different things) what a simple "yes" or "no" response means. When I get one I'll tend to answer in this format ("yes, I don't", "no, I do") for clarity. (Yes, your suspicion is correct that I don't care.)

Id be far from lying if I neglected to deny that I couldn't help but fail to disagree less.

Real world advantage of a biochemistry/genetics degree: the ability to parse such sentences quickly and easily.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Qaanol » Sat May 02, 2015 4:38 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:Id be far from lying if I neglected to deny that I couldn't help but fail to disagree less.

“I would be at least mostly truthful if either I was silent or I said that I can only agree an equal or lesser amount.”
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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby kharnynb » Sat May 02, 2015 9:42 am UTC

as a dutch person living in finland, stop giving away all our secrets :shock:

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby orthogon » Sat May 02, 2015 11:09 am UTC

Quercus wrote:
da Doctah wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:I try to take into account double negatives when I reply to a question, but "yes, I do not" doesn't sound right.
I'll almost never use a negative in a question, because people are never sure (or are sure of different things) what a simple "yes" or "no" response means. When I get one I'll tend to answer in this format ("yes, I don't", "no, I do") for clarity. (Yes, your suspicion is correct that I don't care.)

Id be far from lying if I neglected to deny that I couldn't help but fail to disagree less.

Real world advantage of a biochemistry/genetics degree: the ability to parse such sentences quickly and easily.

I'm not convinced that da Doctah's statement contains a great deal of information. It could be "far from lying" to "neglect to deny" a proposition regardless of the truth value of the proposition. Admittedly there are some special situations (courts of law, tax returns) in which failing or refusing to deny something is equivalent to affirming it, but generally a lie is understood to be an active verbal or written statement of a falsehood. Neglecting to deny something suggests that the person in some sense ought to have made an effort to make the denial, or might have been expected to do so. But in this case there was no such expectation: da Doctah had not previously posted in this thread, and his/her not posting in response to Quizatzhaderac's post could not reasonably have been interpreted as having any implications as to da Doctah's position on the matter. He/she might not even have been aware of the post. In conclusion, I don't think we can tell whether or not da Doctah could help but fail to disagree less.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby PM 2Ring » Mon May 04, 2015 10:39 am UTC

Heimhenge wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:Screaming bird of truth? Is that a reference to something?


Not sure, but it's a great expression and I might just start using it myself. Only reference I could find was a bass player called Norm "The Screaming Bird Of Truth" Demoura on a 2003 blues album by one Susan Tedeschi. The guy is probably from the Netherlands, so why don't one of you just ask him where he got that?


By curious coincidence, I was listening to Susan Tedeschi on the radio (singing Space Captain) when I read this post.

Note that "Tedeschi" is an Italian word for "German" from the root "Deutsch", so it's etymologically related to the word "Dutch"...

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Re: 1519: “Venus”

Postby Baccar Wozat » Tue May 12, 2015 12:57 am UTC

The Dutch had tulipomania.
The mythological Venus has two lips.
Illuminati confirmed.


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