1539: "Planning"

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1539: "Planning"

Postby Echo244 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:57 am UTC

Image

Title="[10 years later] Man, why are people so comfortable handing Google and Facebook control over our nuclear weapons?".

You mean, they haven't got that yet? I thought that Google Maps was integrated with the targetting systems, and that anyone with nuclear launch codes got an extra "Really don't like" button on Facebook...
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Flumble » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:02 am UTC

(Beat me by a minute.)

How does she even switch the subject from giving away control to "big-picture planning"? For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Echo244 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:24 am UTC

(Terribly sorry - I just wanted to post my "Wait, they aren't already?" comment and didn't see a thread yet - I'm not fussed about first-post things...)

Also:

<Looks up from freeze ray schematics>

*Everyone's* planning to take over the world. To a greater or lesser extent. ;-D
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby jc » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:33 am UTC

Flumble wrote:How does she even switch the subject from giving away control to "big-picture planning"? For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.


The Americans and other folks who built the nuclear weapons have never admitted that world domination was their goal. Their excuse was always <i>defense</> against all those evil people in the rest of the world who want to do bad stuff to us. Since the evil Commies lost all their credibility back in the 1980s, the people here in the US who are sending the troops around the world (and maintaining the nuclear weapons) changed the terminology a bit; it's now the evil Terrists that we need to defend against. But it's the same story. Nope; we're not after world domination at all. We just have to defend ourselves from all those people that populate the rest of the planet and want to hurt us.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:53 am UTC

Echo244 wrote:
*Everyone's* planning to take over the world. To a greater or lesser extent. ;-D



Strictly speaking, not everyone:

" I don't want to work; I just want to bang on the drum all day..."
or
"Sitting on the dock of the bay, watching the tide roll away..."

or
"I don't want no job, working 40 years from 9 to 5; while the boss is guzzling champagne and I'm drinking beer in some dive..."
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Echo244 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:41 pm UTC

That's shrinking their world until they're in control of it pretty much by default, though. Which I maintain is a valid tactic, if not necessarily a good one, especially below certain limits.
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby The Moomin » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:57 pm UTC

So when a nuclear warhead changes its status to "it's complicated", everybody run?
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby pkcommando » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:29 pm UTC

Just worry when the missiles won't stop blabbing about their upcoming travel plans.
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby airdrik » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:45 pm UTC

jc wrote:Nope; we're not after world domination at all. We just have to defend ourselves from all those people that populate the rest of the planet and want to hurt us.

Because those people that populate the rest of the planet don't have our best interests in mind, unlike those who are in charge of defending us from such persons who I'm sure care for me personally when they are out there planning world domination capitalist imperialism the defence of our nation's interests.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby richP » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:46 pm UTC

Nobody panic. As long as some punk teenage hacker remembers Zukerberg's son's name, he will be able to hack into the mainframe and have Facebook learn that globalthemonuclearwar is a silly game.

Wait, he doesn't have a son? Crap, there goes the backdoor.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby airdrik » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:04 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
Echo244 wrote:
*Everyone's* planning to take over the world. To a greater or lesser extent. ;-D



Strictly speaking, not everyone:

" I don't want to work; I just want to bang on the drum all day..."
or
"Sitting on the dock of the bay, watching the tide roll away..."

or
"I don't want no job, working 40 years from 9 to 5; while the boss is guzzling champagne and I'm drinking beer in some dive..."

Oh, no. The song clearly states: "Everybody wants to rule the world".


Also, what self-respecting programmer hasn't at one time or another dreamt of world domination through ubiquitous software used to control the mind-share of the people (and/or the world's weapons caches). I mean, of course I am not in any way working on any projects which may be in any way be related to using facebook and/or twitter and/or google to brainwash the population in such a way that I will get promoted to leader of the world and/or that I will inherit a large accumulation of monetary assets.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:09 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.

We don't know that they're not, either.
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby RGB-es » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:42 pm UTC

commodorejohn wrote:
Flumble wrote:For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.

We don't know that they're not, either.

The problem is that they suck at that (comic /792/, I can't post links yet, I think).

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Flumble » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:48 pm UTC

airdrik wrote:Also, what self-respecting programmer hasn't at one time or another dreamt of world domination through ubiquitous software used to control the mind-share of the people (and/or the world's weapons caches). I mean, of course I am not in any way working on any projects which may be in any way be related to using facebook and/or twitter and/or google to brainwash the population in such a way that I will get promoted to leader of the world and/or that I will inherit a large accumulation of monetary assets.

To be frank: I don't recall having had that thought. The thought I (did) have is one of a world that voluntarily allows me to do whatever I want to do (within ethical boundaries*). Though, I've never considered how that world can come to be –perhaps, yes, it requires exploiting a backdoor in the mind-share.

*and if solipsism is confirmed (by me going crazy from this freedom), anything is ethical

RGB-es wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:
Flumble wrote:For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.

We don't know that they're not, either.

The problem is that they suck at that (comic /792/, I can't post links yet, I think).

There you go.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:09 pm UTC

Yeah, ruling the world seems like too much effort. What I really want is for someone else to rule the world, who I can ask for things when it seems appropriate...

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby ucim » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:17 pm UTC

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:23 pm UTC

RGB-es wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:
Flumble wrote:For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.

We don't know that they're not, either.

The problem is that they suck at that (comic /792/, I can't post links yet, I think).

Maybe, but if "practice makes perfect" then it's only a matter of time...
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby keithl » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:02 pm UTC

commodorejohn wrote:
Flumble wrote:For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.
We don't know that they're not, either.
I googled that, and was assured they are not.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:08 pm UTC

Reaper drones on autopilot -- what could possibly go wrong with that?

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:23 pm UTC

keithl wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:
Flumble wrote:For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.
We don't know that they're not, either.
I googled that, and was assured they are not.

Well of course they're not going to admit to it.
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby pkcommando » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:32 pm UTC

keithl wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:
Flumble wrote:For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.
We don't know that they're not, either.
I googled that, and was assured they are not.

I asked an even more reliable source.

I'm reading that as - yes.
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Polixenes » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:34 pm UTC

In the interests of playing devil's advocate, in what sense is the initial premise true, that people are handing control of their lives to Facebook and Google? I mean, I have been known to post photos on FB, and I have a Gmail account, what else am I missing?

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:22 pm UTC

Polixenes wrote:In the interests of playing devil's advocate, in what sense is the initial premise true, that people are handing control of their lives to Facebook and Google? I mean, I have been known to post photos on FB, and I have a Gmail account, what else am I missing?

Well, if you haven't noticed this, I envy you, but from my own personal experience a lot of my acquaintances are conducting their non-in-person social lives primarily or exclusively through Facebook now. I'm perpetually the last to hear about damn near anything because people will just post about it on FB where they used to call or send out an email, and then either they'll forget to let me know about it entirely, or they'll wait until just about immediately prior. It's really pretty aggravating. (Their in-person social lives were, of course, invaded by smartphones and tablets years ago - when did it stop being rude as all hell to suddenly ignore the person you're visiting with and stare into your gorram iPhone?)
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby ucim » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:29 pm UTC

Polixenes wrote:In the interests of playing devil's advocate, in what sense is the initial premise true, that people are handing control of their lives to Facebook and Google? I mean, I have been known to post photos on FB, and I have a Gmail account, what else am I missing?
Speaking more in generalities (I don't know what the algorithm is, but it killed Jeeves), places like facebook and google help your decisionmaking. To that end, the results they give (or don't give) form the solution set of your next actions. Ads "tailored for you" are a start, and pricing based on the web pages you view work the nose further into the tent. (Amazon did this). But the bigger threat is in editorial content. It has long been possible to create editorial content which changes based on your profile, and the more information the gatekeepers of this content have about you, the more they can tailor what you actually are able to read to their prediction of your reaction based on your profile. For example, to those more easily swayed by emotion they can serve up one version of a news article, and to those who are more religious, they can serve up another, etc. So, you see this great article, you send me a link, and I read a different article about the same topic. The "same" article, reworded appropriately.

Assuming we are influenced in part by what we read, we are now more likely to {vote republican | buy an i-thing | move out of stocks | move to Albania} (And if we are not influenced by what we read, we aren't reading.)

The more we entrust our social lives to Match.com, the more match.com gets to control society. This doesn't even have to be in a tin hat manner; it is a natural result of the aggregation of our personal habits and information, and its being turned into a stick and a carrot.

As for gmail itself, I had many different google accounts, back in the day when google promised to keep them separate. So, I could create google docs for one group of people, and use google sign-in for a set of websites, and correspond freely with people who used gmail.com, and use google groups, all as separate personas. Then Google made it hard to FOR ME find all the pieces, then put them all together FOR GOOGLE, and so google has a much more complete view of my life then I ever wanted them to. This allows them to present me to their clients in a much more intimate way than they should be able to. This allows their clients to make decisions on my behalf on a very fine level that I don't want them to, but I have no control over.

This in turn influences who I interact with, and how. And it's only going to get more invasive.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Keyman » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:47 pm UTC

airdrik wrote:
cellocgw wrote:
Echo244 wrote:
*Everyone's* planning to take over the world. To a greater or lesser extent. ;-D



Strictly speaking, not everyone:

" I don't want to work; I just want to bang on the drum all day..."
or
"Sitting on the dock of the bay, watching the tide roll away..."

or
"I don't want no job, working 40 years from 9 to 5; while the boss is guzzling champagne and I'm drinking beer in some dive..."

Oh, no. The song clearly states: "Everybody wants to rule the world".


Are you sure...?
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby dg61 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:10 pm UTC

Facebook is already going out of popularity-people my age have it but most people younger (fresh out of hs) don't seem to have it.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Turing Machine » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:43 pm UTC

jc wrote:
Flumble wrote:How does she even switch the subject from giving away control to "big-picture planning"? For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.


The Americans and other folks who built the nuclear weapons have never admitted that world domination was their goal. Their excuse was always <i>defense</> against all those evil people in the rest of the world who want to do bad stuff to us. Since the evil Commies lost all their credibility back in the 1980s, the people here in the US who are sending the troops around the world (and maintaining the nuclear weapons) changed the terminology a bit; it's now the evil Terrists that we need to defend against. But it's the same story. Nope; we're not after world domination at all. We just have to defend ourselves from all those people that populate the rest of the planet and want to hurt us.


100 million dead, and we still have to deal with this apologism. Holy shit.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby david.windsor » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:23 pm UTC

airdrik wrote:
cellocgw wrote:
Echo244 wrote:
*Everyone's* planning to take over the world. To a greater or lesser extent. ;-D



Strictly speaking, not everyone:

" I don't want to work; I just want to bang on the drum all day..."
or
"Sitting on the dock of the bay, watching the tide roll away..."

or
"I don't want no job, working 40 years from 9 to 5; while the boss is guzzling champagne and I'm drinking beer in some dive..."

Oh, no. The song clearly states: "Everybody wants to rule the world".




Also, what self-respecting programmer hasn't at one time or another dreamt of world domination through ubiquitous software used to control the mind-share of the people (and/or the world's weapons caches). I mean, of course I am not in any way working on any projects which may be in any way be related to using facebook and/or twitter and/or google to brainwash the population in such a way that I will get promoted to leader of the world and/or that I will inherit a large accumulation of monetary assets.


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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:48 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Yeah, ruling the world seems like too much effort. What I really want is for someone else to rule the world, who I can ask for things when it seems appropriate...

The problem is, having someone else rule the world the way that you want it, without you actually having to do the ruling business -- making all those tricky decisions and avoiding unpleasant consequences of them by balancing those consequences and making the decisions very carefully to make sure things turn out a way you actually want them to -- is like asking for a programming language with a doWhatIWant() function. You can't expect what you really, truly want to be done unless you're capable of articulating precisely what it is that you want, which is hard work, without which you're going to get at best "do exactly what I say, shit wait no I didn't mean for that to happen" or "do what you think I would want, no not like that, no not like that either, damnit!"
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby clockworkbookreader » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:42 pm UTC

commodorejohn wrote:<snip> .....when did it stop being rude as all hell to suddenly ignore the person you're visiting with and stare into your gorram iPhone?)


It started way back when everything in the house stopped when the phone rang with a real bell because someone had bothered calling the operator and asking for "Buckham-2454" exchange (or whichever one your family had a party line on).

It's been downhill since then.

Yes. I'm that old to remember when my family was on a phone exchange that required a person to actually move a plug from one line to another to connect the 2 lines.
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby brenok » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:16 am UTC

Turing Machine wrote:100 million dead, and we still have to deal with this apologism. Holy shit.

WTF are you talking about?

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Mikeski » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:36 am UTC

brenok wrote:
Turing Machine wrote:100 million dead, and we still have to deal with this apologism. Holy shit.

WTF are you talking about?

Communism's body count, apparently.

As for people believing the USA has nukes to try to take over the world, it's interesting that the one country we actually used them on is still an independent country and not our 51st state. Heck, we haven't even gotten around to taking over Canada and Mexico yet, and we can walk there (and New York City has as many people in its police force as Canada has in it's army... it should be pretty easy, eh?) As evil overlording goes, we're apparently pretty terrible at it.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby armandoalvarez » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:23 am UTC

Mikeski wrote:
brenok wrote:
Turing Machine wrote:100 million dead, and we still have to deal with this apologism. Holy shit.

WTF are you talking about?

Communism's body count, apparently.

As for people believing the USA has nukes to try to take over the world, it's interesting that the one country we actually used them on is still an independent country and not our 51st state. Heck, we haven't even gotten around to taking over Canada and Mexico yet, and we can walk there (and New York City has as many people in its police force as Canada has in it's army... it should be pretty easy, eh?) As evil overlording goes, we're apparently pretty terrible at it.


I'm not at all claiming the U.S. is out to invade the world, but your counterexamples are pretty bad. The U.S. tried and failed to invade Canada twice. And we did steal half of Mexico in a war Ulysses Grant called "one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation." (Although he did fight there)

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Mikeski » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:28 am UTC

armandoalvarez wrote:
Mikeski wrote:
brenok wrote:
Turing Machine wrote:100 million dead, and we still have to deal with this apologism. Holy shit.

WTF are you talking about?

Communism's body count, apparently.

As for people believing the USA has nukes to try to take over the world, it's interesting that the one country we actually used them on is still an independent country and not our 51st state. Heck, we haven't even gotten around to taking over Canada and Mexico yet, and we can walk there (and New York City has as many people in its police force as Canada has in it's army... it should be pretty easy, eh?) As evil overlording goes, we're apparently pretty terrible at it.


I'm not at all claiming the U.S. is out to invade the world, but your counterexamples are pretty bad. The U.S. tried and failed to invade Canada twice. And we did steal half of Mexico in a war Ulysses Grant called "one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation." (Although he did fight there)

(Implied: "since we had the Bomb." Else, it's hard for many countries to claim they didn't set their current borders by force. Maybe the descendants of that very-first Homo Sapiens tribe in Africa...)

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby ps.02 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:19 am UTC

Mikeski wrote:(Implied: "since we had the Bomb." Else, it's hard for many countries to claim they didn't set their current borders by force. Maybe the descendants of that very-first Homo Sapiens tribe in Africa...)

Vatican City, maybe? "And how many divisions has the Pope?"

Also, the place I live was purchased from Napoleon in 1803. I suppose he acquired it by force or threat of force, but the United States didn't.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Djehutynakht » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:23 am UTC

ucim wrote:This in turn influences who I interact with, and how. And it's only going to get more invasive.


I'm waiting for the news to break that our various technologies have actually been recording us in real life.

I'm starting to get targeted ads for things I've talked about in real-life but I swear I don't remember doing anything about on the internet.

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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:25 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:
ucim wrote:This in turn influences who I interact with, and how. And it's only going to get more invasive.


I'm waiting for the news to break that our various technologies have actually been recording us in real life.

I'm starting to get targeted ads for things I've talked about in real-life but I swear I don't remember doing anything about on the internet.


I've heard a bit of uproar that certain Samsung smart TVs listen to conversation in the room and serve ads based on keyword matches from that conversation.

And a lot of paranoia that Xbox One would do something similar, though I don't know if those worries panned out.
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby sotanaht » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:30 am UTC

jc wrote:
Flumble wrote:How does she even switch the subject from giving away control to "big-picture planning"? For all we know, google and facebook aren't even after world domination.


The Americans and other folks who built the nuclear weapons have never admitted that world domination was their goal. Their excuse was always <i>defense</> against all those evil people in the rest of the world who want to do bad stuff to us. Since the evil Commies lost all their credibility back in the 1980s, the people here in the US who are sending the troops around the world (and maintaining the nuclear weapons) changed the terminology a bit; it's now the evil Terrists that we need to defend against. But it's the same story. Nope; we're not after world domination at all. We just have to defend ourselves from all those people that populate the rest of the planet and want to hurt us.


Well, the "credibility" of those evil commies has been on a huge upswing for the past 10 or 20 years too. And for all that posturing, the US Government doesn't really seem any closer to world domination. Corporations, like google and Facebook, are making pretty good progress on that front though.

This comic requires a ref link, which when I finish reading the thread I'll probably find out someone already posted, but I'm too lazy to check beforehand.
https://xkcd.com/792/

Kit.
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Kit. » Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:00 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:You can't expect what you really, truly want to be done unless you're capable of articulating precisely what it is that you want, which is hard work, without which you're going to get at best "do exactly what I say, shit wait no I didn't mean for that to happen" or "do what you think I would want, no not like that, no not like that either, damnit!"

Honestly, I don't see how it is any different from saying the same to yourself when you rule the world on your own.

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Flumble
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Re: 1539: "Planning"

Postby Flumble » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:21 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:
ucim wrote:This in turn influences who I interact with, and how. And it's only going to get more invasive.


I'm waiting for the news to break that our various technologies have actually been recording us in real life.

I'm starting to get targeted ads for things I've talked about in real-life but I swear I don't remember doing anything about on the internet.

Well, you might be caught in a profile, either based on what others –similar to you– have shown to like or what your closest online contacts have shown to like.
It's wonderful how little information you have to share for a system to classify you using the tremendous amount of information others have shared.

...I mean, wonderful from an IT point-of-view, horrible from a privacy point-of-view.


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