1708: "Dehydration"

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1708: "Dehydration"

Postby chris857 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:25 pm UTC

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Alt-text: I don't care what the research says. Everybody knows you should drink 3,000 glasses of water a day and change your oil every 8 miles.

How I am first? It's almost noon. Did everyone else succumb to dehydration and were unable to post?
Last edited by chris857 on Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:15 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby HES » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:28 pm UTC

More likely it is Randall who is dehydrated, as new comics are regularly going up this late.

I spent 8 hours yesterday in 25C sunshine and, by whoever's definition, I definitely did not drink enough.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby CharlieP » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:37 pm UTC

I go by the colour of my wee. Whenever it's a dark orange I drink a glass of water an hour previously.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby harry.lime » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:40 pm UTC

Hydrated = Your urine is clear (with exceptions for 'electric neon yellow' vitamin B coloring, 'murder red' beet juice dye)

Not enough people know this.

I don't know where & when "Drink # glasses of water per day" became a popular New Years resolution, was it a female celebrity talking about skin? It's bad advice though, because it seems to be difficult for anyone who tries judging by how often I hear the commitment.

If you want to manage your health, being aware of changes in your urine and stool are very important sources of feedback (visual inspection costs nothing, frequent samples)

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby operagost » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:54 pm UTC

Drink water?
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Xenomortis » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:10 pm UTC

I go by the rule of "if I feel thirsty, I have a drink".
That rule has worked for my ancestors, so it's good enough for me.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby orthogon » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:26 pm UTC

Why spend all day reading research when you have snopes.com?

The claim that tea and coffee don't count because they actually dehydrate you is particularly ridiculous.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby PracticalM » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:44 pm UTC

I find if I drink more than about 120 oz of water a day, I just can't drink any more.

I do find my skin to improve when I drink about that much daily. Less dryness. Does not help as much when I go out too long and get sunburned though.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby piratejohn » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:51 pm UTC

Wear a stillsuit.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Eebster the Great » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:01 pm UTC

harry.lime wrote:Hydrated = Your urine is clear (with exceptions for 'electric neon yellow' vitamin B coloring, 'murder red' beet juice dye)

Not enough people know this.

Actually, this is by far the most common bit of pop hydration advice you will get from friends and strangers, and it is not based on a single bit of science.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby cellocgw » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:04 pm UTC

HES wrote:More likely it is Randall who is dehydrated, as new comics are regularly going up this late.


Very unlike him. I'm betting that BHG changed the TimeZone setting on the server and it's dishing out new comics at 7 AM Hawaii time.


Anyway, hydration rules: 4 beers per day.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby harry.lime » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:26 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
harry.lime wrote:Hydrated = Your urine is clear (with exceptions for 'electric neon yellow' vitamin B coloring, 'murder red' beet juice dye)

Not enough people know this.

Actually, this is by far the most common bit of pop hydration advice you will get from friends and strangers, and it is not based on a single bit of science.


You are evil, and wrong.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Xenomortis » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:27 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:The claim that tea and coffee don't count because they actually dehydrate you is particularly ridiculous.

Indeed - Tea doesn't count because it occupies a different position in the hierarchy of needs. :wink:
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Zinho » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:29 pm UTC

Before anyone goes overboard on drinking water, read up on hyponatremia; it's a real issue that causes many deaths each year in sports and military training.

Rules of thumb:
  • 1 qt/hr is more than enough water unless you're performing hard labor in the sun
  • 2 qt/hr is pushing the limits of healthy water ingestion, and if you're working that hard outside you should break it up with 50% rest cycles in the shade
  • 1 gal/hr is enough water to trigger hyponatremia in most healthy adults unless supplemented with salts

3,000 glasses of water a day will kill you, herniation of the brain is a significant possibility for cause of death. Moderation, folks.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby speising » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:33 pm UTC

Zinho wrote:Before anyone goes overboard on drinking water, read up on hyponatremia; it's a real issue that causes many deaths each year in sports and military training.

Rules of thumb:
  • 1 qt/hr is more than enough water unless you're performing hard labor in the sun
  • 2 qt/hr is pushing the limits of healthy water ingestion, and if you're working that hard outside you should break it up with 50% rest cycles in the shade
  • 1 gal/hr is enough water to trigger hyponatremia in most healthy adults unless supplemented with salts

3,000 glasses of water a day will kill you, herniation of the brain is a significant possibility for cause of death. Moderation, folks.


What's a qt?
I'm too old to manage more than one or two gals a day, TBH. That said, i need to drink some water after the exertion.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby HES » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:39 pm UTC

speising wrote:What's a qt?

Quart = quarter gallon. Roughly a litre.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby SDK » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:40 pm UTC

Zinho wrote:Rules of thumb:
  • 1 qt/hr is more than enough water unless you're performing hard labor in the sun
  • 2 qt/hr is pushing the limits of healthy water ingestion, and if you're working that hard outside you should break it up with 50% rest cycles in the shade
  • 1 gal/hr is enough water to trigger hyponatremia in most healthy adults unless supplemented with salts

Don't know how big your "glass" is, but even your first rule of thumb is WAY over 8 glasses of water a day.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby cellocgw » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:00 pm UTC

harry.lime wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:
harry.lime wrote:Hydrated = Your urine is clear (with exceptions for 'electric neon yellow' vitamin B coloring, 'murder red' beet juice dye)

Not enough people know this.

Actually, this is by far the most common bit of pop hydration advice you will get from friends and strangers, and it is not based on a single bit of science.


You are evil, and wrong.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby harry.lime » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:19 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
You are evil, and wrong.
[Citation Needed][/quote]

Evil and Wrong are independent sets, the statement was an intersection of the two self-evident examples
(harmful manipulative doubt is equivalent with evil, "Actually, this is by far the most common bit of pop hydration advice you will get from friends and strangers". Superb piece of persuasion btw.) ∩ ("it is not based on a single bit of science." is absolutely wrong)

Change that [Citation Needed] sign to [Attention Wanted]

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby madaco » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:41 pm UTC

harry.lime wrote:
cellocgw wrote:
You are evil, and wrong.
[Citation Needed]


Evil and Wrong are independent sets, the statement was an intersection of the two self-evident examples
(harmful manipulative doubt is equivalent with evil, "Actually, this is by far the most common bit of pop hydration advice you will get from friends and strangers". Superb piece of persuasion btw.) ∩ ("it is not based on a single bit of science." is absolutely wrong)

Change that [Citation Needed] sign to [Attention Wanted][/quote]


Presumably they wanted citation for the two things separately, or at least for the "wrong about 'not based on a single bit of science' ".

A citation that they requested could, presumably, be provided by citing a science thing, which supports the claim that how clear one's urine is, is a good indicator of one's level of hydration.

Like, a study or something.

I searched google for : "does urine color reflect hydration" just now (without quotes), and a number of the top results were of the "n reasons/ways/things something your something" format, and the third result title was "Your Pee Must Be Clear and Other Myths - Coach Debbie Runs".

nasm.org says "Although urine color is oftentimes used as a marker of hydration where we follow the guideline of maintaining a clear-to-lemonade color while avoiding darker, apple-juice urine colors, we need to exercise caution with such generalized guidelines given how various factors can influence urine color and volume that are discussed subsequently." (suggesting that is isn't sufficient?)

So, scepticism doesn't seem obviously unreasonable here.

However, when looking at google scholar, I find http://search.proquest.com/openview/135 ... e=gscholar and http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/7987361 .

The general idea I get from these abstracts is that it could be a workable guideline, but it is not a precise measure?

So, now we have some citations.

Also, I'd hesitate to call someone evil because of their views on urine color reflecting hydration...
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby wumpus » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:48 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
harry.lime wrote:Hydrated = Your urine is clear (with exceptions for 'electric neon yellow' vitamin B coloring, 'murder red' beet juice dye)

Not enough people know this.

Actually, this is by far the most common bit of pop hydration advice you will get from friends and strangers, and it is not based on a single bit of science.


But it still works better than any "INTNUM glasses of water" regardless of temperature or humidity.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:51 pm UTC

HES wrote:
speising wrote:What's a qt?

Quart = quarter gallon. Roughly a litre.

Yup. Very slightly less than a litre liter if wet and in the US, slightly more than a litre (but different again) if dry or outside the US.

I think. :P

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Eebster the Great » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:54 pm UTC

wumpus wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:
harry.lime wrote:Hydrated = Your urine is clear (with exceptions for 'electric neon yellow' vitamin B coloring, 'murder red' beet juice dye)

Not enough people know this.

Actually, this is by far the most common bit of pop hydration advice you will get from friends and strangers, and it is not based on a single bit of science.


But it still works better than any "INTNUM glasses of water" regardless of temperature or humidity.

In many ways, yes, it makes more sense, but it still has tons of problems. While the number of glasses of water you need per day depends on factors like weight, activity, temperature, and humidity (among many others), the color of the urine of a hydrated person also depends on factors like diet, vitamins, metabolism, and disorders. Either way, the notion that dark urine usually or often indicates dehydration is simply incorrect. Much as eight glasses of water is usually more than people need in the average day, clear urine is usually much less pigmentation than hydrated people would expect to have. Most of the time, urine is yellow, even if you are well hydrated.

There is a much better rule of thumb: If you are thirsty, drink water (or aqueous solution or emulsion). If you're just a little bit thirsty or have just a few symptoms of thirst (e.g. dry mouth), it's probably still not a bad idea to drink water, but it's not an urgent matter. If you're not thirsty, drink or don't drink, it doesn't matter.

The whole discussion is kind of silly when you put it that way.

Soupspoon wrote:
HES wrote:
speising wrote:What's a qt?

Quart = quarter gallon. Roughly a litre.

Yup. Very slightly less than a litre liter if wet and in the US, slightly more than a litre (but different again) if dry or outside the US.

I think. :P

Yes, but dry pints, dry quarts, dry gallons, pecks, and bushels are not frequently used anymore. Hardly any people actually know what they are or have seen them in modern times. I think bushels are still used in agriculture sometimes, but their divisions usually aren't. The (unqualified) "quart" is a liquid quart, equal to 32 fluid ounces.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:00 pm UTC

If thirsty, drink seems to work pretty well.

There are exceptional circumstances, but provided you recognize those, you should be mostly okay.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby ijuin » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:17 pm UTC

Just how much water is meant by the unit "glass" being used here?

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Flumble » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:59 pm UTC

ijuin wrote:Just how much water is meant by the unit "glass" being used here?

Anywhere from 2 to 5.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby HES » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:15 pm UTC

ijuin wrote:Just how much water is meant by the unit "glass" being used here?

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:27 pm UTC

ijuin wrote:Just how much water is meant by the unit "glass" being used here?
Eight ounces, but specifically served in a container made out of glass, as opposed to a cup made out of any other material.
SDK wrote:Don't know how big your "glass" is, but even your first rule of thumb is WAY over 8 glasses of water a day.
Zinho's rules were upper limits, as in: You can drink less, but if you're considering drinking more: STOP, something is very wrong.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby RogueCynic » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:15 am UTC

Alcohol and carbonated beverages do not count because they tend to dry out a person. Drinks with high caffeine (I before E?) content tend to loosen your kidneys. I'm surprised to see BHG. I thought Randall was saving him for something really surprising.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Eternal Density » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:46 am UTC

I tend to get irritable and short-tempered if I don't have enough to drink for too long.

OTOH, having a few litres of saline solution dripped into one's veins isn't much fun, and tends to cause sleep loss due to the resultant need for requent trips to the unhydration facility.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby hetas » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:29 am UTC

RogueCynic wrote:... I'm surprised to see BHG. I thought Randall was saving him for something really surprising.

:)

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby eidako » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:07 am UTC

Lethal-Doses-Chemicals.png

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby orthogon » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:30 am UTC

RogueCynic wrote:Alcohol and carbonated beverages do not count because they tend to dry out a person. Drinks with high caffeine (I before E?) content tend to loosen your kidneys.


That snopes.com article I linked above says otherwise:
Spoiler:
Regular coffee and tea drinkers become accustomed to caffeine and lose little, if any, fluid. In a study published in the October issue of the Journal of the American College of Nutrition, researchers at the Center for Human Nutrition in Omaha measured how different combinations of water, coffee and caffeinated sodas affected the hydration status of 18 healthy adults who drink caffeinated beverages routinely.

"We found no significant differences at all," says nutritionist Ann Grandjean, the study's lead author. "The purpose of the study was to find out if caffeine is dehydrating in healthy people who are drinking normal amounts of it. It is not."

The same goes for tea, juice, milk and caffeinated sodas: One glass provides about the same amount of hydrating fluid as a glass of water. The only common drinks that produce a net loss of fluids are those containing alcohol — and usually it takes more than one of those to cause noticeable dehydration, doctors say.

Just because snopes.com made up the rumour in the first place, doesn't mean you shouldn't trust their debunking of it.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Plasma Mongoose » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:37 am UTC

This thread is making me thirsty.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby Bloopy » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:44 am UTC

I know when I have low-grade dehydration because my right temporomandibular joint gets clunkier, haha.

I've also noticed that I'm less likely to get leg/toe cramps if I drink a few beers as opposed to drinking just a little water. Maybe it's because the dehydrating effect of the alcohol comes on later.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:20 pm UTC

Bloopy wrote:I know when I have low-grade dehydration because my right temporomandibular joint gets clunkier, haha.

I've also noticed that I'm less likely to get leg/toe cramps if I drink a few beers as opposed to drinking just a little water. Maybe it's because the dehydrating effect of the alcohol comes on later.


It also depends whether the cramps are due to low water or low salt. I find I tend to get cramps more when I've had more water than usual, but not as much salt.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby ThirdParty » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:40 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
harry.lime wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:
harry.lime wrote:Hydrated = Your urine is clear
Actually, this is by far the most common bit of pop hydration advice you will get from friends and strangers, and it is not based on a single bit of science.
You are evil, and wrong.
[Citation Needed]
Do we really need a citation? Can't we reason it out?

There are two main ways your body uses up water: sweat, for cooling, and urine, for eliminating waste products from your bloodstream. In general, after sweating or urinating you will (at least eventually) need to replace the water you used up. Water can be found in most foods and beverages.

However, the waste products eliminated by urine are, overall, yellow. If your urine is clear, that means your body was not using water to eliminate waste, but was simply eliminating excess water.

So, going by the color of your urine:
dark yellow: you were nearing dehydration even before urinating, so now you definitely need to rehydrate.
pale yellow: you were fine before urinating, but now you probably need to rehydrate.
clear: you were overhydrated before urinating, but now you are probably fine.

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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby CharlieP » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:18 pm UTC

piratejohn wrote:Wear a stillsuit.


But what if you want to go somewhere?
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby cellocgw » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:10 pm UTC

CharlieP wrote:
piratejohn wrote:Wear a stillsuit.


But what if you want to go somewhere?


No, no, no: it's a "stillsuit" because no matter what you do to it, it's still a suit.
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Re: 1708: "Dehydration"

Postby ThemePark » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:43 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
CharlieP wrote:
piratejohn wrote:Wear a stillsuit.


But what if you want to go somewhere?


No, no, no: it's a "stillsuit" because no matter what you do to it, it's still a suit.

Actually it's a typo. That should say stiltsuit.
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