1715: "Household Tips"

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:20 am UTC

My windows fell out once. It turned out the glazier had mixed up window putty with toothpaste. Tried to get him to fix it, but he wouldn't speak to me afterwards...

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby speising » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:51 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:Now if the windows open outward instead of inward I see a risk of having a window tumbling down a 5 story building. I have never seen them open outwards, but that may be due to Dutch building code.


Ha. In my school, we had huge side sliding metal windows. I once managed to let a panel jump out of its groove and onto the windowsill, hanging precipitously over the teacher's parking lot 4 storeys below, only held by my hastily grabbing hand.
The other children, instead of jumping to my help, just stood around laughing and waiting for me to resolve my predicament one way or the other ...

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby The Moomin » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:19 pm UTC

addams wrote:
BytEfLUSh wrote:Huh, panel #2 is well timed for me. Two days ago, my dad was making attempting to make french fries on a stove when suddenly, "for no reason", the cooking oil caught fire. That was the first flash of light I saw, followed by another, much brighter, presumably as my dad tried to put out the fire by pouring water on it (though he denies that) as I ran towards the kitchen. Remarkably, he was not injured at all and the only damage was the melted fire alarm as it was right above the fire. Well, the walls need repainting, too. And the wooded frame of the door was kind of badly burned. The french fries were also ruined.

Yes.
That's a great story.

People don't do much of that, anymore.
I'm glad your Dad is keeping up tradition.


Our office used to be constructed from two terraced houses that are knocked through to form one weirdly connected building. Next door was a residential house that was rented out.

One day, sometime within the last decade (The passing of years is pretty much meaningless here) we came in and were told there had been a chip pan fire next door, and the fire brigade had had to be called in. It reminded us of being young and in the 80s, nostalgic for a simpler form of disaster.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby addams » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:32 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:
CharlieP wrote:
somitomi wrote:
Grop wrote:I had forgotten that guillotin windows were popular in the US.

I find that strange too, but then I realise our windows fall out, if you move the handle while they're open. I think the reason for the different windows is more cultural than practical.

Um, what?

Here in the Netherlands we have lots of tilt/turn windows that open inwards. You can tilt them open for a small opening or turn them open for a big opening.
here is an example:
Spoiler:
draaikiepraam_4_draaistand_www_kikmachinale_nl.jpg draaikiepraam_5_kantelstand_www_kikmachinale_nl.jpg

There are 3 hinges in these: 1 tilt+ turn (bottom left side), 1 turn (top left) and 1 tilt (bottom right).
If you tilt then the turn hinge is disconnected, as in the moving inner frame of the window is no longer connected to the stationary outer frame by that hinge.
If you turn then the tilt hinge is disconnected.
The tilt/turn hinge is always connected.
The mode is selected by the rotation of the handle: 1 position is "window locked", one is "tilt" and one is "turn"
Old versions lacked the interlocks that prevented the handle from moving to "tilt" while the window was turned open, and vice versa.

This resulted in the possibility to disconnect all hinges except for one (tilt+turn). If you accidentally did that the forces on the tilt/turn hinge would be immense. It never happened to me but if you were to let go of the handle I think there is a distinct possibility that the hinge would be torn from either frame or apart.
Now if the windows open outward instead of inward I see a risk of having a window tumbling down a 5 story building. I have never seen them open outwards, but that may be due to Dutch building code.

Yes.
This is the kind I was playing with.

It is so much Better than any common window in the US.
It is So easy to wash all sides. The openings are luxurious.

This resulted in the possibility to disconnect all hinges except for one (tilt+turn). If you accidentally did that the forces on the tilt/turn hinge would be immense. It never happened to me but if you were to let go of the handle I think there is a distinct possibility that the hinge would be torn from either frame or apart.
I did not let go of the handle.
I was worried. Big Heavy Window!

Is that feature 'fixed'?
If so, "Good."
The Moomin wrote:One day, sometime within the last decade (The passing of years is pretty much meaningless here) we came in and were told there had been a chip pan fire next door, and the fire brigade had had to be called in. It reminded us of being young and in the 80s, nostalgic for a simpler form of disaster.

Yes. oh, Yes.
The whole world, ... well, ..., (?)
I also long for simpler kinds of disasters.

..!!For other people!!...Not for me.
Mr. Monroe can forget to turn off the shower and face a $5,000.00 water and electric bill.
I can not run that risk. I Must turn the shower OFF before I leave the room!
(shrug) I am protected from this disaster by not having a shower.

It makes me wonder. Just a general 'wonder'.
People still commonly cook with boiling oil....?

How, ... strange.
Not Me!

That stuff is dangerous in so many ways.
I don't play with it. I never have.
Last edited by addams on Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:58 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby squall_line » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:45 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:My windows fell out once. It turned out the glazier had mixed up window putty with toothpaste. Tried to get him to fix it, but he wouldn't speak to me afterwards...


It took me 30 seconds or so, but then I couldn't help laughing out loud at this. :)

I also appreciate that this has turned into a discussion about the various methods of indoor/outdoor air exchange as used throughout the world.

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby somitomi » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:54 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:Now if the windows open outward instead of inward I see a risk of having a window tumbling down a 5 story building. I have never seen them open outwards, but that may be due to Dutch building code.

The ones I've seen in Hungary open invward too. I'm not sure if there's a requlation mandating this, maybe it's just common sense. These windows can be pretty large, and so reaching the handle (or any other part you can grab) of an outward-opening window might prove tricky.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Justin Lardinois » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:15 pm UTC

J%r wrote:I live in a city that used to be a swamp.


used to?

Neil_Boekend wrote:
CharlieP wrote:
somitomi wrote:
Grop wrote:I had forgotten that guillotin windows were popular in the US.

I find that strange too, but then I realise our windows fall out, if you move the handle while they're open. I think the reason for the different windows is more cultural than practical.

Um, what?

Here in the Netherlands we have lots of tilt/turn windows that open inwards. You can tilt them open for a small opening or turn them open for a big opening.
here is an example:
Spoiler:
draaikiepraam_4_draaistand_www_kikmachinale_nl.jpg draaikiepraam_5_kantelstand_www_kikmachinale_nl.jpg

There are 3 hinges in these: 1 tilt+ turn (bottom left side), 1 turn (top left) and 1 tilt (bottom right).
If you tilt then the turn hinge is disconnected, as in the moving inner frame of the window is no longer connected to the stationary outer frame by that hinge.
If you turn then the tilt hinge is disconnected.
The tilt/turn hinge is always connected.
The mode is selected by the rotation of the handle: 1 position is "window locked", one is "tilt" and one is "turn"
Old versions lacked the interlocks that prevented the handle from moving to "tilt" while the window was turned open, and vice versa.

This resulted in the possibility to disconnect all hinges except for one (tilt+turn). If you accidentally did that the forces on the tilt/turn hinge would be immense. It never happened to me but if you were to let go of the handle I think there is a distinct possibility that the hinge would be torn from either frame or apart.
Now if the windows open outward instead of inward I see a risk of having a window tumbling down a 5 story building. I have never seen them open outwards, but that may be due to Dutch building code.


Image

That seems very overengineered...

addams wrote:It is So easy to wash all sides. The openings are luxurious.


I don't think I've ever washed the outside of a window.

addams wrote:People still commonly cook with boiling oil....?

How, ... strange.
Not Me!

That stuff is dangerous in so many ways.
I don't play with it. I never have.


How else do you make french fries?

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:25 pm UTC

Justin Lardinois wrote:
J%r wrote:I live in a city that used to be a swamp.

used to?

I went to a university that was built in what used to be a swamp.

They said it was daft to build a university in a swamp, but they built one anyway.

That one sank into the swamp.

But then they built another one.

That one caught fire, fell over, and then sank into the swamp.

But then they built a third one, and that one stayed standing!

And that, incoming freshmen, is what you will be getting here at the prestigious University of California at Santa Barbara: the finest university ever built... in this here swamp.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby somitomi » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:58 pm UTC

Justin Lardinois wrote:Image

That seems very overengineered...


I think the mechanism is simpler than it sounds, thanks to some clever engineering. And having a window open two ways instead of just one is quite handy.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:20 pm UTC

Justin Lardinois wrote:
J%r wrote:I live in a city that used to be a swamp.


used to?
That's pretty common actually.

Many swamps are above sea level, and so drainage is possible with some strategic canals.

More recently, cities are build in high water table areas by planning out artificial lakes and developed area. Earth is taken from the to-be artificial lakes and moved to the to-be developed areas.
How else do you make french fries?
By using an appliance specifically designed as a deep fryer with no exposed heating elements.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby operagost » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:07 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Curiosity question: are windows that slide upwards common in the US? In London and other UK cities, lots of older houses have wooden sash windows that work like that, but they're seen as a bit of a period feature and most are being replaced with uPVC windows that hinge outwards (with the hinge either vertical or horizontal). uPVC replacement sash windows are available but they're more expensive and tend to only be fitted in "conservation areas" where any modifications are required to maintain the original appearance.

ETA: The trouble with sash windows is that they tend to jam, particularly if they've been painted a few times

If you're painting vinyl windows, you're doing it wrong.
also the cords connecting the window to the counterweight can break and it's a big job to repair them.

This technology hasn't been used in the US in 50+ years. Unless it's a restoration, those windows are replaced with modern vinyl ones that are friction-fit so they don't need counterweights.

I'm amazed that casement windows would be so popular, being that they're harder to get out of in a fire, the interior side is subject to the elements when it's open (a problem, again, if they're painted or stained) and the crank handle is a very breakable part.

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby operagost » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:18 pm UTC

When washing your car, save time and water by not completely immersing it.

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby somitomi » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:40 pm UTC

operagost wrote:I'm amazed that casement windows would be so popular, being that they're harder to get out of in a fire, the interior side is subject to the elements when it's open (a problem, again, if they're painted or stained) and the crank handle is a very breakable part.

Why would they make it harder to get out? I'd even venture to say they make better emergency exits, because the entire windowpane swings out of the way, whereas the moving part of a sash window is about half the size of the window itself.
The interior is only subject to the elements, if the window opens outwards, which seems to be uncommon.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby squall_line » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:55 pm UTC

operagost wrote:This technology hasn't been used in the US in 50+ years. Unless it's a restoration, those windows are replaced with modern vinyl ones that are friction-fit so they don't need counterweights.


Well, quality replacement windows aren't cheap, so a re-glaze of an existing sash may still be cost-effective even if one isn't attempting to restore/preserve a property. In many cases, the cords can also be replaced with square chains to help reduce the chance of the weight falling into the frame down the line.

Modern vinyl windows may not have weights, but they DO have springs to help counter-weight. Pure friction fit wouldn't do the job, as breaking the static friction would otherwise be enough to set the sash on its way to the bottom of the frame without any other method to slow it. Luckily, the springs aren't as taught nor as deadly as springs used to counter-weight an overhead door (nor are they wound-sprung; they're stretch-sprung).

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby svenman » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:55 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:Here in the Netherlands we have lots of tilt/turn windows that open inwards. You can tilt them open for a small opening or turn them open for a big opening.
[...]
There are 3 hinges in these: 1 tilt+ turn (bottom left side), 1 turn (top left) and 1 tilt (bottom right).
If you tilt then the turn hinge is disconnected, as in the moving inner frame of the window is no longer connected to the stationary outer frame by that hinge.
If you turn then the tilt hinge is disconnected.
The tilt/turn hinge is always connected.
The mode is selected by the rotation of the handle: 1 position is "window locked", one is "tilt" and one is "turn"
Old versions lacked the interlocks that prevented the handle from moving to "tilt" while the window was turned open, and vice versa.

This resulted in the possibility to disconnect all hinges except for one (tilt+turn). If you accidentally did that the forces on the tilt/turn hinge would be immense. It never happened to me but if you were to let go of the handle I think there is a distinct possibility that the hinge would be torn from either frame or apart.

Modern German windows are mostly like this too, but there is a linkage at the top that restricts the inward tilt and will still do so if due to some misalignment of the interlocks one manages to unhinge the window at both of the hinges that can be disconnected (but shouldn't be at the same time). Therefore, the window can't fall inward so far that the one permanent hinge is in danger of breaking apart or being torn off.

The window that gave addams a scare was probably one of that sort too. :wink:

Edit:
somitomi wrote:
operagost wrote:I'm amazed that casement windows would be so popular, being that they're harder to get out of in a fire, the interior side is subject to the elements when it's open (a problem, again, if they're painted or stained) and the crank handle is a very breakable part.

Why would they make it harder to get out? I'd even venture to say they make better emergency exits, because the entire windowpane swings out of the way, whereas the moving part of a sash window is about half the size of the window itself.
The interior is only subject to the elements, if the window opens outwards, which seems to be uncommon.

...in continental Europe (or at least much of it). From what I've seen, windows in the US and Canada usually tend to open outward if they swing anywhere at all, and if I recall correctly the same is generally true in the UK and Ireland.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby ucim » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:22 am UTC

operagoat wrote:I'm amazed that casement windows would be so popular, being that they're harder to get out of in a fire, the interior side is subject to the elements when it's open (a problem, again, if they're painted or stained) and the crank handle is a very breakable part.
They open fully.
somitomi wrote:The interior is only subject to the elements, if the window opens outwards, which seems to be uncommon.
That's common here (in the US). Opening inwards claims interior space. A disadvantage to opening outwards however is that bugs get trapped between the window and the screen when the window gets closed.
somitomi wrote:Why would they make it harder to get out?
Opening a casement window takes time you might not have in a fire.

Those fancy "open every which way" windows are much more expensive though, since they have much more mechanism. I'm not convinced the flexibility is worth it... at least for me.

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby RogueCynic » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:32 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:My windows fell out once. It turned out the glazier had mixed up window putty with toothpaste. Tried to get him to fix it, but he wouldn't speak to me afterwards...


Are you sure he "mixed up window putty with toothpaste"? He may have been pissed at you before the job. I heard a story about a school that had to have the new windows reinstalled. they leaked horribly causing a mold problem. Some of the windows were installed backwards...
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:32 am UTC

addams wrote:Is that feature 'fixed'?
If so, "Good."
New windows are fixed, yes. There are some extra components that lock the handle in place when the window is open in either way.
But that window you had is probably not fixed, since this requires a new window.

Justin Lardinois wrote:That seems very overengineered...

Hardly. It's really usefull. You can open the window on tilt to allow for ventilation while not opening an easy entry point for thieves, but you can also open the window fully to clean it or to ventilate extra.

don't think I've ever washed the outside of a window.

I do that every couple of weeks. My apartment has a luxurious view and we have a lot of protected spiders in the area that really love our apartment to build cobwebs on.

How else do you make french fries?
Nowadays the various fat free fryer solutions work quite well.
I have a Phillips Airfryer. The fries out of it are different but definately tasty.
Also fat for frying shouldn't boil: that would be a massive fire risk.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby somitomi » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:36 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
operagoat wrote:I'm amazed that casement windows would be so popular, being that they're harder to get out of in a fire, the interior side is subject to the elements when it's open (a problem, again, if they're painted or stained) and the crank handle is a very breakable part.
They open fully.
somitomi wrote:The interior is only subject to the elements, if the window opens outwards, which seems to be uncommon.
That's common here (in the US). Opening inwards claims interior space. A disadvantage to opening outwards however is that bugs get trapped between the window and the screen when the window gets closed.
somitomi wrote:Why would they make it harder to get out?
Opening a casement window takes time you might not have in a fire.

Those fancy "open every which way" windows are much more expensive though, since they have much more mechanism. I'm not convinced the flexibility is worth it... at least for me.

Jose

Yes, claiming interior space is a problem with casement windows, which is why the flexibility of the "open every which way" window is worth it in my opinion. Having seen a lot of these in operation, I don't regard them as complicated, the handles almost always work the same way: pointing down=closed, horizontal=open along vertical axis, pointing up=tilt along horizontal axis. People do mix it up occasionally, but I think most people familiar with it would get it right 9 out of 10 times.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby addams » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:18 am UTC

Yes Somitomi, I agree.
Those windows are wonderful.

Before we go toddling off the topic of European Windows;
I'd like to know more about those Standard HeavyDuty Roll-Up Shades.

Are those an architectural leftover from the Nuclear Cold War?
They would function to mitigate both The Flash and The Boom.

In the US we learned "Duck and Cover'.
Europe installed shades. Is that Right?

Well?....It is my best guess.
Do you have a better explanation.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Justin Lardinois » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:31 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Justin Lardinois wrote:
J%r wrote:I live in a city that used to be a swamp.

used to?

I went to a university that was built in what used to be a swamp.

They said it was daft to build a university in a swamp, but they built one anyway.

That one sank into the swamp.

But then they built another one.

That one caught fire, fell over, and then sank into the swamp.

But then they built a third one, and that one stayed standing!

And that, incoming freshmen, is what you will be getting here at the prestigious University of California at Santa Barbara: the finest university ever built... in this here swamp.


A public university at least makes sense, because swampland is likely to be cheaper so the government probably had an easier time getting ahold of it. I think this is the reason many capital cities are built on swamps.

I never knew UCSB was built on a swamp, though. That's amusing.

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Justin Lardinois » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:32 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:
Justin Lardinois wrote:How else do you make french fries?
By using an appliance specifically designed as a deep fryer with no exposed heating elements.


That works, but if you only fry things occasionally it's a bit overblown and a waste of oil compared to shallow frying in a pan.

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:04 pm UTC

Sure, but we're comparing it to deep frying in a pot over an exposed heating element, which is how our grandparents used to burn the house down.

Lots of better options.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Copper Bezel » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:19 pm UTC

I never realized how grateful I am for window screens.
So much depends upon a red wheel barrow (>= XXII) but it is not going to be installed.

she / her / her

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:21 pm UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:I never realized how grateful I am for window screens.

Or windscreens...
Spoiler:
Image

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby Copper Bezel » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:09 pm UTC

Okay, so there are clearly people who have it even worse. = o
So much depends upon a red wheel barrow (>= XXII) but it is not going to be installed.

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby svenman » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:19 pm UTC

addams wrote:Before we go toddling off the topic of European Windows;
I'd like to know more about those Standard HeavyDuty Roll-Up Shades.

Are those an architectural leftover from the Nuclear Cold War?
They would function to mitigate both The Flash and The Boom.

In the US we learned "Duck and Cover'.
Europe installed shades. Is that Right?

Well?....It is my best guess.
Do you have a better explanation.

Oops, sorry for necroing this side-topic – I had wanted to reply to this question.

No, those "shades" (the actual term is roller shutter – I had to look that up myself) have nothing to do with the Cold War. Similar roller shutters, with wooden segments, were in Germany (and neighbouring countries probably too) already common in buildings from the late 19th century (maybe even earlier) and replaced side-hinged exterior window shutters that had been in general use previously. Roller shutters offer the advantage that you can open and close them without opening the associated window and exposing the operator and the room's interior to whatever the weather might be at the moment.

In a more general vein, I find it fascinating how ordinary-seeming stuff like windows and shutters that you normally take for granted are simply just done differently in other parts of the world – and yet they tend not to get mentioned in stories or travel accounts often, so that the experience of a totally mundane thing working differently from what you always have been used to can even nowadays come as a surprise to a first-time traveller.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby morriswalters » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:59 pm UTC

Double hung windows served a purpose at one time. With both the top and the bottom open hot air could leave through the top and cooler air could come in through the bottom. This was augmented by transom windows over the top of doors. I once lived in a home with windows 10 feet tall. Thank god for counterweights.

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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby addams » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:51 am UTC

svenman wrote:
addams wrote:Before we go toddling off the topic of European Windows;
I'd like to know more about those Standard HeavyDuty Roll-Up Shades.

Are those an architectural leftover from the Nuclear Cold War?
They would function to mitigate both The Flash and The Boom.

In the US we learned "Duck and Cover'.
Europe installed shades. Is that Right?

Well?....It is my best guess.
Do you have a better explanation.

Oops, sorry for necroing this side-topic – I had wanted to reply to this question.

No, those "shades" (the actual term is roller shutter – I had to look that up myself) have nothing to do with the Cold War. Similar roller shutters, with wooden segments, were in Germany (and neighbouring countries probably too) already common in buildings from the late 19th century (maybe even earlier) and replaced side-hinged exterior window shutters that had been in general use previously. Roller shutters offer the advantage that you can open and close them without opening the associated window and exposing the operator and the room's interior to whatever the weather might be at the moment.
well...ok, then. I believe you; Sort of.

Those roller shutters are a darned good idea.
They work well over long periods of time.

The common metal ones would reduce damage in case of Nuclear crossfire, too.
The last time I looked, some were made of vinyl or plastic or something, not metal.

(shrug) The last time I looked, the Cold War was over.
The Space Race is still going on at a Snail's pace.
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Re: 1715: "Household Tips"

Postby somitomi » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:34 am UTC

addams wrote:
The common metal ones would reduce damage in case of Nuclear crossfire, too.
The last time I looked, some were made of vinyl or plastic or something, not metal.

(shrug) The last time I looked, the Cold War was over.
The Space Race is still going on at a Snail's pace.

A far as I know they're made of the same (or very similar) PVC they use for plastic window frames and doors. Really old ones are made of wooden slats connected with metal bits.
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