0315: "Braille"

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pjthum
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Postby pjthum » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:43 am UTC

When I moved to England I noticed that shop names in Chinese were sometimes radically different from the English ones. For example, a restaurant near where I work has the English name "Oriental Condor". the Chinese name reads (someone defiantly), "The East Is Invincible". I've spotted differences in many other places as well.

Domovoi
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Re: did I reinvent the lamest Braille joke in the world

Postby Domovoi » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:02 am UTC

Lobster wrote:This joke always inadvertently manifests itself every time I see the sign in front of the urinals at our church. It reads "Now please wash your hands" and has what is presumably the same written in Braille below it; the positioning means that any blind Braille-reader who successfully finds the sign has just run their hands all over the wall of a toilet block and probably by this point at least one urinal.


Amazing. Even if they immediately knew where the sign was, that would mean that they'd be touching a sign that everybody touched right after urinating, and before washing their hands. Hygienic!

Presuming that a lot of blind people visit that church, of course.

This makes me wonder: what if you're blind -and- obsessively compulsive about cleanliness?

Domovoi
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Postby Domovoi » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:06 am UTC

@trophy wrote:
Domovoi wrote:
Wilibus wrote:I am also red-green colour blind and I can read this just fine. In fact I used to own that exact shirt, I have no idea where it went though.


Maybe you just -think- that you're colourblind?


No, he's quite right... I'm colorblind too and can read the shirt just fine. In fact, I think even someone with complete red/green deficiency could still read it because they put a dark outline around the letters. In other words: That shirt fails.


Maybe you both just think that you're colourblind.

I've always wondered if you could convince people with perfectly normal vision that they have some sort of visual impairment, leading them to believe that they see the world differently than others while they actually see it exactly the same way as everybody else does. It'd make for an interesting, and sadistic, social experiment.

jonas
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Postby jonas » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:24 am UTC

schumi_girl wrote:When I'm waiting at the traffic lights, I love putting my finger on the blind people's button thing that's there, above the big silver button. It's so cool. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Maybe it's only in Oz?


I do, but only because I've recently been to Wien.

The Ivy wrote:I had a (sighted) friend who started to learn Braille. She said she wished she'd thought of it as a kid, so she wouldn't have had to read under the covers with a flashlight. Reading in the dark would be the ultimate parental subversion for a 7-year-old.


I don't think that would work. A 7 year old child wouldn't be able to register to a library of braille books without the permissions of his parents, and he or she would also have problems hiding the largish braille books.

Surgery wrote:
Iluvatar wrote:My school, RIT, has a large deaf population (houses the National Technical institute for the Deaf). I hear about this sort of thing all the time, where interpreters will make fun of the professor they're interpreting or similar fun.

but it balances out pretty well, because we (the hearing) make fun of them a lot too :) .


Yeah, you could also graffiti "blind suck" over that sign in the comic.

Re. colorblindness: see http://www.madore.org/~david/misc/color/.

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madjo
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Postby madjo » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:51 am UTC

Domovoi wrote:Maybe you both just think that you're colourblind.

I've always wondered if you could convince people with perfectly normal vision that they have some sort of visual impairment, leading them to believe that they see the world differently than others while they actually see it exactly the same way as everybody else does. It'd make for an interesting, and sadistic, social experiment.

What if we each perceive colours differently. We both see a red object, but if I could see it through your eyes, I'd see a colour I learned to be green, and not red.
(in other words, during your life, your brain has defined what's red for you, but what your brain uses for a red colour, my brain uses for a green colour) :)
:)

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Domovoi
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Postby Domovoi » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:19 pm UTC

madjo wrote:
Domovoi wrote:Maybe you both just think that you're colourblind.

I've always wondered if you could convince people with perfectly normal vision that they have some sort of visual impairment, leading them to believe that they see the world differently than others while they actually see it exactly the same way as everybody else does. It'd make for an interesting, and sadistic, social experiment.

What if we each perceive colours differently. We both see a red object, but if I could see it through your eyes, I'd see a colour I learned to be green, and not red.
(in other words, during your life, your brain has defined what's red for you, but what your brain uses for a red colour, my brain uses for a green colour) :)


I've often thought about that too. Strangely, when I propose this to people, they often react with disgust, dismissing it as "Impossible." I wonder why the notion upsets people so much.

But yeah, I figure that it's impossible to figure out wether or not it is actually the case. Fascinating.

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Postby TheKhakinator » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:20 pm UTC

yeah I've sometimes considered that. Then I remember how bad philosophy lessons are these days and I get all sickly inside.

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Postby @trophy » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:37 pm UTC

Domovoi wrote:I've always wondered if you could convince people with perfectly normal vision that they have some sort of visual impairment, leading them to believe that they see the world differently than others while they actually see it exactly the same way as everybody else does. It'd make for an interesting, and sadistic, social experiment.


Having actually seen this experiment performed, I can tell you that, at least for a short time, it works.

When I was in elementary school, some 5th graders were picking on a kindergartener who was sitting near them and had a blue notebook. They kept telling him that the notebook was green, and for some reason everyone else on the bus decided to play along and I decided to keep my mouth shut since I was a 2nd grader at the time. By the end of the bus ride the kid was crying because he thought he couldn't tell what color his notebook was.

<nerd>"There are 4 lights!!!"</nerd>

jtniehof
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Postby jtniehof » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:26 pm UTC

madjo wrote:What if we each perceive colours differently. We both see a red object, but if I could see it through your eyes, I'd see a colour I learned to be green, and not red.

What if your whole life, you've been looking at the world upside-down, and you've just learned to think it's rightside up?
It's true!

zenten
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Postby zenten » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:27 pm UTC

jtniehof wrote:
madjo wrote:What if we each perceive colours differently. We both see a red object, but if I could see it through your eyes, I'd see a colour I learned to be green, and not red.

What if your whole life, you've been looking at the world upside-down, and you've just learned to think it's rightside up?
It's true!


It doesn't matter. If you give someone glasses that flip the world upside-down, they will compensate in about half an hour, and the new view will be normal to them. Take away the glasses, and they have the same problem.

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Postby woktiny » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:04 pm UTC

It doesn't matter. If you give someone glasses that flip the world upside-down, they will compensate in about half an hour, and the new view will be normal to them. Take away the glasses, and they have the same problem.


ever since I've heard about those, I've wanted to try it... I wonder if there is any lasting mental side effect to messing with one's perceptions like that ...
Last edited by woktiny on Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:03 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

TheKhakinator
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Postby TheKhakinator » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:18 pm UTC

I'd be more worried about the damage to your eyes. But I would still try it if I had access to such things. Any tips, peeps?

gormster
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Postby gormster » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:57 pm UTC

thesleepless wrote:
schumi_girl wrote:Kinda on topic..

When I'm waiting at the traffic lights, I love putting my finger on the blind people's button thing that's there, above the big silver button. It's so cool. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Maybe it's only in Oz?


yep i know what you mean, you can feel it pulse under your finger, and if you vary the pressure upon it you can make it stop or make different pitched beeps, sounds great when it goes green (at least the ones in sydney), it's my musical talent!


Yes! Byoooooo-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d....
Eddie Izzard wrote:And poetry! Poetry is a lot like music, only less notes and more words.

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schrodingersduck
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Postby schrodingersduck » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:04 pm UTC

schumi_girl wrote:Kinda on topic..

When I'm waiting at the traffic lights, I love putting my finger on the blind people's button thing that's there, above the big silver button. It's so cool. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Maybe it's only in Oz?


In the UK these consist of these rough thimble-like things attached to the bottom of the box which holds the "WAIT" button - when the lights go red, the thimble thing spins round to indicate that it is safe to cross.

jhlipton
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Postby jhlipton » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:01 pm UTC

madjo wrote:What if we each perceive colours differently. We both see a red object, but if I could see it through your eyes, I'd see a colour I learned to be green, and not red.
(in other words, during your life, your brain has defined what's red for you, but what your brain uses for a red colour, my brain uses for a green colour) :)


It's an interesting concept, but there are places where a certain color is expected, traffic lights and signs, for example. If I see a number of sources telling me that stop signs are red, but you tell me it's green, I'm not likely to believe you.
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Daemonia
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Postby Daemonia » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:13 pm UTC

Where I worked, every signs got a translation in braille under it (escalator, bank counter, bathroom, etc). But all those signs... are put under a glass that made them impossible to touch :roll:

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Postby bbctol » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:28 pm UTC

Daemonia wrote:Where I worked, every signs got a translation in braille under it (escalator, bank counter, bathroom, etc). But all those signs... are put under a glass that made them impossible to touch :roll:


That is HILARIOUS. No one even thought about it?

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nyeguy
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Postby nyeguy » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:33 pm UTC

madjo wrote:What if we each perceive colours differently. We both see a red object, but if I could see it through your eyes, I'd see a colour I learned to be green, and not red.
(in other words, during your life, your brain has defined what's red for you, but what your brain uses for a red colour, my brain uses for a green colour) :)


Somewhat along these lines, I've also thought it's possible (though not necessarily likely) that everyone's favorite color actually looks the same; they just learned it as a different color.
Image

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Postby Master Gunner » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:58 pm UTC

madjo wrote:What if we each perceive colours differently. We both see a red object, but if I could see it through your eyes, I'd see a colour I learned to be green, and not red.
(in other words, during your life, your brain has defined what's red for you, but what your brain uses for a red colour, my brain uses for a green colour) :)

I too have thought about that extensively, unfortunately, it is hard to explain to those that have not thought about it previously. I do often wonder though about what it would be like if I were to wake up in the morning to find all the colours inverted.....odds are I'd just go back to sleep.

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Postby sophomore » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:48 am UTC

nyeguy wrote:
madjo wrote:What if we each perceive colours differently. We both see a red object, but if I could see it through your eyes, I'd see a colour I learned to be green, and not red.
(in other words, during your life, your brain has defined what's red for you, but what your brain uses for a red colour, my brain uses for a green colour) :)


Somewhat along these lines, I've also thought it's possible (though not necessarily likely) that everyone's favorite color actually looks the same; they just learned it as a different color.


What if you don't have a favored color? Or it's changed?

I'd think that mainstream fashion senses (generally) support that people see similarly.

Shiritai
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Postby Shiritai » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:38 pm UTC

Domovoi wrote:
madjo wrote:
Domovoi wrote:Maybe you both just think that you're colourblind.

I've always wondered if you could convince people with perfectly normal vision that they have some sort of visual impairment, leading them to believe that they see the world differently than others while they actually see it exactly the same way as everybody else does. It'd make for an interesting, and sadistic, social experiment.

What if we each perceive colours differently. We both see a red object, but if I could see it through your eyes, I'd see a colour I learned to be green, and not red.
(in other words, during your life, your brain has defined what's red for you, but what your brain uses for a red colour, my brain uses for a green colour) :)


I've often thought about that too. Strangely, when I propose this to people, they often react with disgust, dismissing it as "Impossible." I wonder why the notion upsets people so much.

But yeah, I figure that it's impossible to figure out wether or not it is actually the case. Fascinating.


Not only would it be impossible to fiqure out, but it would make no difference, as long as your perception is consistant. No matter how my optic nerves process a wavelength of 650 nm, I'll associate that color with blood, violence, and ketchup. For example, if green and blue were reversed for me, it would have no effect, since I would just treat green as blue and vice versa. If someone commented on how blue the sky was, I would agree, since I would have been taught that the color of the sky is called blue.

Our senses aren't necessarily objective (I'm not even sure if they can be objective), but luckily this doesn't matter. Subjective sensory imput would work just fine, since only the relationship between different stimuli matter.

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Re:

Postby APL » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:11 am UTC

Domovoi wrote:I've often thought about that too. Strangely, when I propose this to people, they often react with disgust, dismissing it as "Impossible." I wonder why the notion upsets people so much.

Not to be rude, but people probably react this way because everyone on Earth has thought of this. Also, I've several times heard it used comedicly as a stereotypical thing for someone to find really profound while they're stoned.

Shiritai wrote:Not only would it be impossible to fiqure out,

Well, It'd be impossible to disprove, but not necessarily impossible to prove. Depending on how the colors were 'shifted' and at what point in our brain's image processing, there could be other side-effects.
Especially if the color spectrum was not just shifted, but re-arranged then there might be some way to detect it. You could arrange an experiment where people order different color pairs based from most similar to most clashing. I would put Blue/violet over Orange/Blue

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Re: "Braille" Discussion

Postby mathrec » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:42 pm UTC

I learned braille well enough to read a particular sign at a local park. For the sighted, the sign was a map with a key for the map. The braille message was near the map key, and that just didn't make sense to me until I translated it. The message for the blind gave directions to the restrooms.

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Re:

Postby Wikey » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:30 am UTC

CorranH wrote:
Peripatetic wrote:
rhalleys5th wrote:
38B wrote:Has anyone seen that picture of a color blindness test that reads, "Colorblind people suck."? I'll post it if I can find a picture, unless someone beats me to it.


It's not just a test -- it's been marketed.


I'm actually red-green colorblind and I could read that just fine. Maybe I don't suck enough...


This is the one I'd seen:

Image

I think I'm just the tiniest bit colorblind; I have a bit of a hard time making out what that says (though I can do it), and I often find my friends disagreeing with me about exactly what color something is. Mostly stuff like red vs pink, or subtleties of that nature.


I can't read it. I thought it said "Suck My *four letter expletive* *jumbled mess*"

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Re: "Braille" Discussion

Postby wingless.kat » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:47 pm UTC

So the Canadian bills now have braille on them....

When i first saw this... i thought it was a decent idea... i thought a bit more and saw that the braille rubs off after some time.

I then was talking about it with a blind friend... and she informed me it wasn't REAL braille they had put on...
Just dots that are specific for each denomination, but nothing to do with real braille!

Silly Canadian Mint. Making up their OWN braille!?

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Re: "Braille" Discussion

Postby kanavazk » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:12 am UTC

I think it's sorta cool.

And we had that braille for a super long time now. (Seven years? I dunno)
THIS IS FROM THE INTERENT!

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Re: "Braille" Discussion

Postby Random832 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:10 am UTC

wingless.kat wrote:So the Canadian bills now have braille on them....

When i first saw this... i thought it was a decent idea... i thought a bit more and saw that the braille rubs off after some time.

I then was talking about it with a blind friend... and she informed me it wasn't REAL braille they had put on...
Just dots that are specific for each denomination, but nothing to do with real braille!

Silly Canadian Mint. Making up their OWN braille!?


Wikipedia wrote:The current series of Canadian banknotes have raised dots on the banknotes that indicate the denomination and can be easily identified by visually impaired people; this 'tactile feature' does not use standard braille but, instead, a system developed in consultation with blind and visually impaired Canadians after research indicated that not all potential users read braille.
See also this. and this.

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Tualha
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Re:

Postby Tualha » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:36 am UTC

chessguy wrote:
phlip wrote:I've been meaning to learn braille... I can recognise most of the letters on sight, and I know some of the abbreviations... but I'm still hopeless at doing it by feel :(

For the record, the vast majority of sighted people read braille by sight. The hard part of really learning braille is all the contractions in Level 2 braille, not the reading by touch.

I was wondering what you were smoking, until I realized you meant the vast majority of sighted people who can read braille read braille by sight :mrgreen:

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Re: 0315: "Braille"

Postby berilthedwarf » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:22 pm UTC

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