1759: "British Map"

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Muswell » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:26 pm UTC

svenman wrote:
PinkShinyRose wrote:
wolf99 wrote:Pure pedantry, but Dubstep isn't in Britain.
In fact to be a complete pedanthole, Belfast Devoe isn't in Britain either.

It's no longer caller Britania Minor? All these changes in names. Ridiculous. What's next?

Ireland never was "Britannia Minor" (though Ptolemy, in the 2nd Century CE, did call Ireland the equivalent in Greek). Historically, the term "Britannia Minor" was instead used for Britanny (Bretagne) – which, by the way, is not the bit of France visible in the map, that is instead (in terms of historical provinces) constituted of parts of Picardy and Normandy.

PinkShinyRose wrote:Since we're being pedantic: aren't the Channel Islands colonies?

If you'll allow me to continue being as pedantic: they are Crown dependencies.


If we're being really pedantic, the Channel Islands are part of the historic Duchy of Normandy, and were therefore on the winning side in 1066. They're the invaders, and are no-one's colonies and never have been (even during the Occupation, Hitler never laid direct claim to them and said he was governing them on behalf of George VI, which was... weird). And they're generally too busy fighting amongst themselves to care what the UK is up to.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Mutex » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:26 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:No, that's Hull. Grimsby's on the south side of the Humber, so if we ever dig a ditch joining it to the Mersey the southerners can have Grimsby.

Malham-Barmston-Saltfleet-Hyde.png

Not quite shown at the top edge: Wharram Percy.

Really.


Given the accuracy of some of the points on his map, maybe he was just saying that Hull, Grimsby and Scunthorpe all have kinda horrible sounding names.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:35 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Looks to me like a slew of extra words to compensate for the fact that Britain doesn't have any mountains in it.
Traditional British definition is that a mountain is something rising past 2000ft. All three mainland nations have >3000ft peaks (Northern Ireland's highest spot is around 2750ft), which makes them plenty above that limit, and more so sbove the poultry United States semi-informal definition of 1000ft or more (and sometimes not even that).

The main contention is usually whether England has a mountain, or not, with the high-point that is Scafell Pike rising above the occasionally used 3000ft limit, in imperial, but not the approximately similar 1000 metres measure, as metric.

Measures of mountainhood that include steepness measuring may not be favourable to British 'hills', but our taller examples do clearly have escarpments and aren't all merely "an uphill walk" to reach. (You can get a train to the top of Snowdon, though... ;))


(As per Ninja: Scunthorpe's name has been deemed so horribly as to have been WebFiltered against, quite often!)

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby da Doctah » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:29 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Traditional British definition is that a mountain is something rising past 2000ft.


Seriously? I lived for pretty much all of the 1970s in one of the four US states where the lowest elevation is higher than that. Each of the four separately being larger than all of Great Britain.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby dtilque » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:32 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Traditional British definition is that a mountain is something rising past 2000ft. All three mainland nations have >3000ft peaks (Northern Ireland's highest spot is around 2750ft), which makes them plenty above that limit, and more so sbove the poultry United States semi-informal definition of 1000ft or more (and sometimes not even that).

Are you implying that us merkins are too chicken to come up with a decent definition for a mountain?
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:47 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:Seriously? I lived for pretty much all of the 1970s in one of the four US states where the lowest elevation is higher than that. Each of the four separately being larger than all of Great Britain.


That's just lazy, starting your mountains from an aleady high-up base...

Idle americans (except Hawaiians, who start their mountains from the ocean floor!), with so much land-mass, some of you hardly even care what you call a mountain...:P

Soupspoon wrote:But we have a compact and diverse geography/geology.




@dtilque: Ay, I am, hen..

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby colonel_hack » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:20 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:It's no longer caller Britania Minor? All these changes in names. Ridiculous. What's next? You'll tell me they changed the name of Persia? How do you expect anyone to keep up to date with all those newfangled names?

That's nobody's business but the Turks.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Sableagle » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:21 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Hawaiians, who start their mountains from the ocean floor!
By that measure, the north face of Everest's got nothing on the south face of Guam.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby peewee_RotA » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:34 pm UTC

Totally redeemed for homestarrunner reference
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Mutex » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:42 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:(As per Ninja: Scunthorpe's name has been deemed so horribly as to have been WebFiltered against, quite often!)


Yep, the joys of filtering partial-matches. There was a forum where the word filter replaced "ass" with "butt", as that's apparently much less rude. Resulted in posts such as "that's a clbuttic mistake", "he was buttbuttinated by a buttbuttin", etc. It actually had the effect of drawing your attention to the little ass in so many of our words.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Ayelis » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:42 pm UTC

We've been trying to get a handle on affordable Helcar in America, but our President-elect has promised to give it the Helcaraxe...

How does the NHS handle Helcar in England?
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:32 am UTC

Ayelis wrote:We've been trying to get a handle on affordable Helcar in America, but our President-elect has promised to give it the Helcaraxe...

How does the NHS handle Helcar in England?

They're Tring very hard, despite Minsterley interference by the Govenment, I would say...

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:05 am UTC

Muswell wrote:
svenman wrote:
PinkShinyRose wrote:
wolf99 wrote:Pure pedantry, but Dubstep isn't in Britain.
In fact to be a complete pedanthole, Belfast Devoe isn't in Britain either.

It's no longer caller Britania Minor? All these changes in names. Ridiculous. What's next?

Ireland never was "Britannia Minor" (though Ptolemy, in the 2nd Century CE, did call Ireland the equivalent in Greek). Historically, the term "Britannia Minor" was instead used for Britanny (Bretagne) – which, by the way, is not the bit of France visible in the map, that is instead (in terms of historical provinces) constituted of parts of Picardy and Normandy.

PinkShinyRose wrote:Since we're being pedantic: aren't the Channel Islands colonies?

If you'll allow me to continue being as pedantic: they are Crown dependencies.


If we're being really pedantic, the Channel Islands are part of the historic Duchy of Normandy, and were therefore on the winning side in 1066. They're the invaders, and are no-one's colonies and never have been (even during the Occupation, Hitler never laid direct claim to them and said he was governing them on behalf of George VI, which was... weird). And they're generally too busy fighting amongst themselves to care what the UK is up to.

So is their only connection to the UK the common monarch?

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Reka » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:15 am UTC

orthogon wrote:I'm totally fine with names of towns being reused, but it feels wrong when the name of a county is used for a town. It's a kind of category error or something, rather like the trend (also more common Stateside but becoming more of a thing over here) of using a surname (like Taylor) as a first name.

Yeah, actually, the surnames-as-given-names fad originated on your side of the pond, and has been a thing since the first Queen Elizabeth, if not before. In TV Tropes lingo, I don't know if it's older than print, but it's certainly older than steam.

(Using traditionally-masculine names for girls is definitely Older Than Print, but at least folks back then were honest with themselves about the misogyny that lies at its root.)

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Whatev » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:58 am UTC

I'm trying to figure out where Worrik is.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby peteispo » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:59 am UTC

Braintree belongs in the real-but-mislocated category - it should be in Essex (East and just north of London)

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby CharlieP » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:00 am UTC

Mutex wrote:
Sableagle wrote:No, that's Hull. Grimsby's on the south side of the Humber, so if we ever dig a ditch joining it to the Mersey the southerners can have Grimsby.

Malham-Barmston-Saltfleet-Hyde.png

Not quite shown at the top edge: Wharram Percy.

Really.


Given the accuracy of some of the points on his map, maybe he was just saying that Hull, Grimsby and Scunthorpe all have kinda horrible sounding names.


Scunthorpe frequently falls foul of naughty word filters, as do Penistone, Shitterton[1] and, occasionally, Clitheroe.



[1] There have apparently been attempts to rename the village "Sitterton", but the perception is that it's only the "newcomers" pushing for this, and the long-term residents have no truck[2] with the idea.

[2] Or lorry.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby CharlieP » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:14 am UTC

DanD wrote:
orthogon wrote:What's with the title? A normal native speaker would say "Map of Britain". Was he trying to avoid the whole England/Britain/UK minefield?

I say again, did he accidentally invent real place names? The real Cadbury is pretty small, but Braintree, Essex is a place I was well aware of. I could imagine somebody not realising that Cardigan and Paisley were places after which the eponymous clothing and pattern were named. But Braintree seems to me to have too much entropy to have been created by accident. Which makes me wonder whether the misplacing is supposed to be part of the joke, or what.


One potential source is US place names. Massachusetts has both a Braintree and an Essex, near the coast (We also have a middlesex, which is indeed west of Essex, but no Sussex or Wessex or Norsex). Of course we also have a Norfolk (county) that is south of Suffolk. Knowing the settlement pattern of the area makes it likely that these are names pulled from Britain, but without providing any clue exactly where.


In the UK, we have a Northampton, Southampton and even a Littlehampton, but no Westhampton or Easthampton. Middlesex is north of Sussex and west of Essex - the land to the west used to be called Wessex but I don't know if there was ever a Norsex. The Southumbrians must have been wiped out a long time ago as well.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:22 am UTC

CharlieP wrote:The Southumbrians must have been wiped out a long time ago as well.
It is said that there isn't any sign of civilisation south of the Humber... Or possibly even intelligent life...

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby orthogon » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:43 am UTC

Reka wrote:
orthogon wrote:I'm totally fine with names of towns being reused, but it feels wrong when the name of a county is used for a town. It's a kind of category error or something, rather like the trend (also more common Stateside but becoming more of a thing over here) of using a surname (like Taylor) as a first name.

Yeah, actually, the surnames-as-given-names fad originated on your side of the pond, and has been a thing since the first Queen Elizabeth, if not before. In TV Tropes lingo, I don't know if it's older than print, but it's certainly older than steam.

(Using traditionally-masculine names for girls is definitely Older Than Print, but at least folks back then were honest with themselves about the misogyny that lies at its root.)


I stand corrected, though it still feels as though the most recent phase was a US import. In fact my niece's given name is her mother's maiden1 name, but it just happens to be a conventional given name in its own right.

Anyway, you got me to thinking: how old actually is steam? Given the abundance of hydrogen in the universe, I presume there have been molecules of H2O since shortly after the first oxygen atom was formed (I gather this happens in massive stars). This would probably be in the gas (or plasma) phase, but wouldn't be steam. To count as steam, I think it needs to be a supersaturated suspension type thing in another gas, which essentially needs an atmosphere. So is the question essentially equivalent to that of how long there have been the conditions for life?

1 The term "maiden name" now strikes me as unsatisfactory, but I suppose no more so than the patriarchal naming practice that it relates to. And I speak as somebody whose own wife, mother and sisters-in-law changed their surnames.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby da Doctah » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:46 am UTC

CharlieP wrote:Scunthorpe frequently falls foul of naughty word filters, as do Penistone, Shitterton[1] and, occasionally, Clitheroe.


And as fans of Julian Lennon discovered, "Saltwater".

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Alexius » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:27 pm UTC

Some more real places (apologies if they've been mentioned already upthread):
Eyemouth
Brandon- possibly mislocated

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Keyman » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:47 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
CharlieP wrote:Scunthorpe frequently falls foul of naughty word filters, as do Penistone, Shitterton[1] and, occasionally, Clitheroe.


And as fans of Julian Lennon discovered, "Saltwater".
Until I saw "buttbuttinated" my favorite filter replacement was that one. It happened on an American Football site I frequent, when we were talking about Denver Broncos Safety named, apparently, Steve A-idiot-er.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Eoink » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:06 pm UTC

On a music site about 15 years ago, the filter turned Saturday into Sadoggie-dooay.
Which was made very obvious by a series of posts where each person (including me) who saw this tried it to see if it really was the filter, so the thread had about half a dozen consecutive posts which just had "Sadoggie-dooay" in.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby CharlieP » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:15 pm UTC

Keyman wrote:
da Doctah wrote:
CharlieP wrote:Scunthorpe frequently falls foul of naughty word filters, as do Penistone, Shitterton[1] and, occasionally, Clitheroe.


And as fans of Julian Lennon discovered, "Saltwater".
Until I saw "buttbuttinated" my favorite filter replacement was that one. It happened on an American Football site I frequent, when we were talking about Denver Broncos Safety named, apparently, Steve A-idiot-er.


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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby CharlieP » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:18 pm UTC

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby jmose » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:40 pm UTC

Rodion Raskolnikov wrote:
jmose wrote:Uh, Paisley is in the wrong place. It should be just outside Glassdoor, as it is where Glasgow's airport is.


Paisley is near Glasgow, but has no airport. Glasgow has two airports, one in the city and one in Prestwick.


I've always just assumed the airport was in Paisley, as every time I've taken the train from there to Troon, we have to go to Paisley station. Learn something new every day. Also, it cracks me up that Prestwick is considered a Glasgow airport, as it is at least 20 miles outside the urban area and as far removed from the big city as you could get.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Alexius » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:45 pm UTC

jmose wrote:
Rodion Raskolnikov wrote:
jmose wrote:Uh, Paisley is in the wrong place. It should be just outside Glassdoor, as it is where Glasgow's airport is.


Paisley is near Glasgow, but has no airport. Glasgow has two airports, one in the city and one in Prestwick.


I've always just assumed the airport was in Paisley, as every time I've taken the train from there to Troon, we have to go to Paisley station. Learn something new every day. Also, it cracks me up that Prestwick is considered a Glasgow airport, as it is at least 20 miles outside the urban area and as far removed from the big city as you could get.


See also London Gatwick, London Stansted, London Luton, London Southend and London Oxford...

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby HES » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:57 pm UTC

Though not the furthest by distance, Gatwick has an entire county between it and Greater London
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Muswell » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:08 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:
Muswell wrote:
If we're being really pedantic, the Channel Islands are part of the historic Duchy of Normandy, and were therefore on the winning side in 1066. They're the invaders, and are no-one's colonies and never have been (even during the Occupation, Hitler never laid direct claim to them and said he was governing them on behalf of George VI, which was... weird). And they're generally too busy fighting amongst themselves to care what the UK is up to.

So is their only connection to the UK the common monarch?


Not quite the only connection. Channel Islanders are British citizens with the right to live and work in the UK (though for a non-Channel Island British citizen to get residency in either Guernsey or Jersey is a massive headache involving either a rare skill or a lot of money).

The UK handles most of the Channel Islands' foreign policy and the UK has the right of veto on their international agreements, but Parliament has no say over the islands' domestic affairs (whatever Diane Abbott may think). The Channel Islands share the British armed forces with the UK.

Both Bailiwicks use pounds sterling as currency, and UK-issued money can be used in both Bailiwicks, but Channel Island-issued money cannot be used in the UK. The coins are the same size and shape so you can probably get away with using them (and I have in the past) but the notes look completely different; different colours, different images and a younger portrait of the Queen. To English and Welsh eyes they look even weirder than Scottish money does. Jersey money even has French writing on it.

The school systems are similar to the English system and offer the same qualifications you can get in England, but Channel Island residents are considered overseas students (and non-EU ones at that) when it comes to university tuition fees. English is the most common language but most of the islands have their own weird versions of French that are still spoken to a greater or lesser extent by some of the locals.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby orthogon » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:36 pm UTC

How did AP react to that Tyson Homosexual story? It potentially did them reputational damage. I imagine there's quite a lot of freedom on what customers are allowed to do with agency copy, but changing the meaning like that, albeit inadvertently, whilst still attributing it to the agency is surely beyond the pale.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby typo » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:53 am UTC

orthogon wrote:How did AP react to that Tyson Homosexual story?.

Unfortunately the Buttociated Press could not be reached for comment.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:38 am UTC

typo wrote:
orthogon wrote:How did AP react to that Tyson Homosexual story?.

Unfortunately the Buttociated Press could not be reached for comment.

*golf clap*
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby chrisjwmartin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:26 am UTC

ramblinjd wrote:I see a few categories emerging... feel free to edit/rearrange/discuss:

Two words stuck together:
    Eavestroughs
    Seasedge
    Glutenfree
    Eyemouth
    Earhand
    Hairskull
    Lakebottom
    Braintree
    Skinflower
    Crewneck
    Hillfolk
    Waterdown
    Kingsbottom

Braintree and Eyemouth are real places.

Generally though, this was a pretty stupid cartoon. I don't see what the point was.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Felstaff » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:55 am UTC

Whatev wrote:
I'm trying to figure out where Worrik is.

Just south of Loogabarooga.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby dtilque » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:06 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:
CharlieP wrote:Scunthorpe frequently falls foul of naughty word filters, as do Penistone, Shitterton[1] and, occasionally, Clitheroe.


And as fans of Julian Lennon discovered, "Saltwater".


How about the two Twatt's (one in Orkney, one in the Shetlands)? OK, kind of obscure. Do they ever get mentioned other than these kinds of threads?
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby CharlieP » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:59 pm UTC

dtilque wrote:
da Doctah wrote:
CharlieP wrote:Scunthorpe frequently falls foul of naughty word filters, as do Penistone, Shitterton[1] and, occasionally, Clitheroe.


And as fans of Julian Lennon discovered, "Saltwater".


How about the two Twatt's (one in Orkney, one in the Shetlands)? OK, kind of obscure. Do they ever get mentioned other than these kinds of threads?


The road signs have been a popular photo opportunity for years.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:19 pm UTC

CharlieP wrote:The road signs have been a popular photo opportunity for years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butt_Hole_Road

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:36 pm UTC

I grew up passing Pratt's Bottom several times a year...

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby dtilque » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:56 am UTC

RAGBRAIvet wrote:Title-text: West Norsussex is east of East Norwessex, but they're both far north of Middlesex and West Norwex.
So where is Gaysex?


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