1774: "Adjective Foods"

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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Eebster the Great » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:23 am UTC

Philadelphia Cream Cheese is only 34% milkfat by weight. This is probably not enough in most countries to qualify as cream cheese.


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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:56 am UTC

Don't some parts of Europe require that to be labeled "cheese" it has to be made from non-pasteurized milk? If this "Philadelphia cream cheese" is the exact same stuff US stores sell under that name, it would definitely break that rule, because in the US, it's against regulations to sell (or at least mass produce and sell over state lines; local farmer's-market cheese and imported cheese might be exceptions) dairy products that aren't pasteurized, including cheese.

At least, according to an old Slate article I once saw — and have since lost — that asserted, due to this irreconcilable discrepancy, that US-made cheeses currently bearing the same name as their European counterparts should get their own names to distinguish themselves. And proceeded to use the Adele Dazeem generator to produce some creative suggestions.
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Dave Rogers » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:40 am UTC

tigger0jk wrote:Anyone have some examples of real products that are close to being adjective foods?


"If it's delicious and light, it's Delight" is pretty close.

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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby somitomi » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:53 am UTC

Rombobjörn wrote:I doubt Randall's products will sell without some pictures on the packages. Any ideas on "serving suggestions" that don't show the actual product at all?

Well, you could always put so many different items on the plate, that it's impossible to tell which is your product.
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Tub » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:20 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:Well, you could always put so many different items on the plate, that it's impossible to tell which is your product.

The packaging from the "vegan dairy-free low-fat gluten-free" should contain a plate with a piece of meat, cream, some oil and flour.

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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby orthogon » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:20 pm UTC

sotanaht wrote:
orthogon wrote:
Plu wrote:While looking for images, I noticed that in the US it's labeled as "cream cheese", but by EU regulations they're not allowed to call it cheese, so it's just labeled with the brand "Philadelphia" and then the text "fresh and creamy taste".

That's odd, in the UK it's described as "soft cheese".
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I'd be tempted to suggest that Brexit was trampling our consumer rights already, but I'm pretty sure it's always been labelled that way; and the generic own-brand equivalent on the right couldn't have relied on a brand-name. Perhaps this was one of the opt-outs that the UK had accumulated over the years? (see also: vegelate).


Odd that they can't call creme cheese "cheese". Does a similar law apply to the likes of cottage cheese and other simple fresh cheeses? As far as I know Philadelphia isn't a substitute or anything like that, it is in fact a real cheese, made from real milk.

I think we're going to have to call [[citation needed]] on Plu. It doesn't seem to be an EU rule, since the UK is still a member; in fact I couldn't find anything saying that it was a rule at all.

It might well be marketing: by omitting the description of what the product is, you're presenting it as sui generis and not susceptible to genericisation. Conversely if you put "Cream cheese", your customer might spot that one day and say "oh, that's all Philadelphia is. Well, Sainsbury's do their own brand cream cheese at half the price; maybe I'll buy that!"
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby billybobfred » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:24 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Before Honey.

I think that's just bees.
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby orthogon » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:01 pm UTC

Tub wrote:
somitomi wrote:Well, you could always put so many different items on the plate, that it's impossible to tell which is your product.

The packaging from the "vegan dairy-free low-fat gluten-free" should contain a plate with a piece of meat, cream, some oil and flour.

Come to think of it, surely dairy-free is a subset of vegan, no?
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:50 pm UTC

No, because beef jerky is dairy-free but certainly not vegan.

The converse works though. Vegan is the subset of dairy-free that's in the intersection of egg-free and vegetarian and so on...
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby orthogon » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:05 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:No, because beef jerky is dairy-free but certainly not vegan.

The converse works though. Vegan is the subset of dairy-free that's in the intersection of egg-free and vegetarian and so on...

Yeah, that. Maybe I was thinking of the excluded foods, in other words the complement of the sets, perhaps because most diets are often specified negatively. So the things that a dairy-free diet excludes are a subset of the things that a vegan diet excludes. Or maybe it was a straightforward brainfart.

That reminds me, there's an advert on the tube for "Veganuary". I can see that they're trying to do for January what Stoptober and Movember did for their months, but for me it doesn't work. "VEE-gun-yoo-erry" doesn't sound anything like January, and if you approach it the other way you end up with the stress an the second syllable and a soft 'g', making it sound like they might be inviting you to "get a vajazzle this vajanuary!"

ETA: the site says you pronounce it "vee-gan-uary", which is a sort of compromise, but the "vegan" part still ends up wrongly stressed and with an "a" instead of a schwa.
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:03 pm UTC

I think the schwa in vegan is a direct result of that syllable being unstressed, so it makes sense that it comes back to an "a" if you stress it. Of course that same pattern makes me want to schwa the "e" instead (along with de-stressing it) in this new portmanteau, giving a pronunciation almost approaching "v'GAN-uary".
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby orthogon » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:21 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I think the schwa in vegan is a direct result of that syllable being unstressed, so it makes sense that it comes back to an "a" if you stress it. Of course that same pattern makes me want to schwa the "e" instead (along with de-stressing it) in this new portmanteau, giving a pronunciation almost approaching "v'GAN-uary".

Agreed, but all the same you end up with something that's not recognisably related to "vegan". I suppose the same could be said of Movember, but they were able to introduce the hip-sounding "mo" as a cool abbreviation of "moustache", in a way that claimed both the word and the facial hair phenomenon itself for the cause (though on the flip side they left the cause itself unstated). Vegans already own the word "vegan", and "vGAN" has nothing going for it: is not shorter or hipper.
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby HES » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:26 pm UTC

In any case, it's the wrong number of syllables.
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:13 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:I think the schwa in vegan is a direct result of that syllable being unstressed, so it makes sense that it comes back to an "a" if you stress it. Of course that same pattern makes me want to schwa the "e" instead (along with de-stressing it) in this new portmanteau, giving a pronunciation almost approaching "v'GAN-uary".

Agreed, but all the same you end up with something that's not recognisably related to "vegan". I suppose the same could be said of Movember, but they were able to introduce the hip-sounding "mo" as a cool abbreviation of "moustache", in a way that claimed both the word and the facial hair phenomenon itself for the cause (though on the flip side they left the cause itself unstated). Vegans already own the word "vegan", and "vGAN" has nothing going for it: is not shorter or hipper.

Oddly, "veganuary" has enough of the corresponding words that it clicks for me simply because it works in writing,, even if it's a little unnatural to pronounce vee-GAN-you-ary with all those full vowels in a row, where I have only just this moment learned where "Movember" came from.
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:57 pm UTC

Rombobjörn wrote:English is said to be unique among Germanic languages in that compounds are often written with spaces in them.
Yeah, and because of those spaces it seems many people persist in thinking the noun adjuncts are adjectives.
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Eshru » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:47 pm UTC

I would expect something called Philedelphia to be a key ingredient in making cheesesteak sandwiches. *hides*

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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Jorpho » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:08 am UTC

I've always been quite confused by the sale of "brown gravy". This is a thing you can buy. Apparently its sole attribute is that it is Brown. Also gravy. Not "savory", not "meat", not "old fashioned", just ... brown.

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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Eternal Density » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:14 pm UTC

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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Sableagle » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:51 am UTC

Aiwendil wrote:That Craft Barrel-aged Smoked Authentic Homemade Sun-dried Whole Extra Sharp actually sounds pretty good.

Barrel-aged cheese? Yes. Sun-dried cheese? Probably not. Sun-dried tomatoes? Yeah. Barrel-aged tomatoes? Probably not.

Strawberry yoghurt: yoghurt containing actual strawberries or pieces thereof.
Strawberry-flavoured yoghurt: yoghurt flavoured using actual strawberries or pieces thereof.
Strawberry yoghurt: pink yoghurt.

This would allow Randall to market something as "strawberry" without the noun. Strawberry granola? Strawberry milk? Strawberry bubblegum? Strawberry lipstick?
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby ManaUser » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:44 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:Not sure which comedian it was (Steven Wright? Mitch Hedberg?) who pointed out the absurdity of the term "artificial color". You mean this isn't actually red, it just looks red?

Artificial color isn't the opposite of real color, it's the opposite of natural color. Or strictly speaking, I guess it means a color created by artifice, which actually matches how the word is used pretty well.

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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby dtilque » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:19 am UTC

Rombobjörn wrote:If I would buy something labeled just "Philadelphia" I would expect to get 367 km² of land with a city on it.


Would you care for some Philadelphia lite? Only 27 km².
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Copper Bezel » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:47 am UTC

ManaUser wrote:
da Doctah wrote:Not sure which comedian it was (Steven Wright? Mitch Hedberg?) who pointed out the absurdity of the term "artificial color". You mean this isn't actually red, it just looks red?

Artificial color isn't the opposite of real color, it's the opposite of natural color. Or strictly speaking, I guess it means a color created by artifice, which actually matches how the word is used pretty well.

The opposite of "natural" in that sense might be "synthetic", which would just mean something synthesized, whether something entirely novel or an exact chemical duplicate of a natural substance. "Artificial" seems to imply the space in between, where something's synthesized to act in place of a thing, but isn't that thing precisely. "Artifice" doesn't really help the case, because that also refers to a "false" approximation of something. So an "artificial dye" is already suspect, unless it's specifically meant as an artificial replacement for an existing, known, and assumed natural dye, or something else that would normally be expected in a particular food. If your heavily processed grape juice somehow comes out blue and you "add red" to make it resemble natural grape juice, I suppose that would be artificial, but it would be so whether or not the dye was "natural".

However, for the sake of the joke, the semantic foible of the original phrase is at the other end, the use of "color" in place of "dye" or "pigment" or whatnot, because "color" has many senses, and the most common sense of the term is a fundamental property that can't be "artificial" because it only describes how a thing appears.

So while "natural" in food has no meaning outside of its various legal ones, we can still pretend those are meaningful and even then wonder what the hell an artificial color is.
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:06 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote: Sun-dried cheese? Probably not.
They have that in Sardinia.
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Re: 1774: "Adjective Foods"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:42 pm UTC

Man, I was proudly into "gross cheeses" until I just learned how gross some people make them. Jesus.
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