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1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:06 pm UTC
by squall_line
Image
Title text: "Dvorak words may sound hard to pronounce, but studies show they put less stress on the vocal chords"

"Okay Google, send a Text"

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:30 pm UTC
by somitomi
I wonder what the pronunciation of ';' is in Dvorak...

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:52 pm UTC
by slinches
I think it's pronounced "semi-colon"

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:54 pm UTC
by Burton
It's an "S". He's saying "Okay Google Send a Text". (If you press the corresponding Qwerty key on a Dvorak keyboard)

I used to type like that all the time. I had Dvorak at home, and if someone sent me an instant message I would quickly reply with the wrong keyboard in mind. It would come out as gibberish like that. Now I just use QWERTY like everyone else.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:05 pm UTC
by Justin Lardinois
inb4 "QWERTY was designed to slow typists down"

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:13 pm UTC
by Old Bruce
That isn't how "GOOGLE" is spelt/spelled.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:24 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
Old Bruce wrote:That isn't how "GOOGLE" is spelt/spelled.

How do you figure?

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:31 pm UTC
by cellocgw
somitomi wrote:I wonder what the pronunciation of ';' is in Dvorak...


Whatever the sound is that comes after a close-parenthesis and before drop

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:49 pm UTC
by dfjdejulio
This would be perfect if I could also use such systems with reverse polish notation.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:51 pm UTC
by ManaUser
I like how the first two characters of Dvorak for "send" make a cheeky smiley.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:58 pm UTC
by CByrd17
Shouldn't the text actually be "OK GOOGLE sEND A TEXT" ?

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:07 pm UTC
by keithl
When I first looked at this forum page, there was no translation, so I found this webpage for translating Dvorak: http://wbic16.xedoloh.com/dvorak.html, and got the "ok google send a text" after translation.

However, this is not properly secure. In the grand tradition of triple rot 13, it should be triple dvorak encoded:

Code: Select all

0) okay google send a text
1) svat ussupd ;dlh a kdbk
2) ;.ak f;;frh zhpj a vhnv
3) zeav yzzyoj /jrc a .jl.
...


I have not yet determined how many more rounds of forward dvorak encoding must be performed to return to the original text (I'm sure one of you clever lads or lassies will find out for me), nor which put the minimum possible strain on the vocal cords. Some of the worst mappings may require emergency surgery after pronouncing.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:15 pm UTC
by taixzo
keithl wrote:I have not yet determined how many more rounds of forward dvorak encoding must be performed to return to the original text (I'm sure one of you clever lads or lassies will find out for me), nor which put the minimum possible strain on the vocal cords. Some of the worst mappings may require emergency surgery after pronouncing.


I ran it through a python script; it looks like the answer is 209. Here's the code, in case anyone wants to check my work:

Code: Select all

QWERTY = '''-=qwertyuiop[]sdfghjkl;'zxcvbn,./_+QWERTYUIOP{}SDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBN<>?'''
DVORAK = '''[]',.pyfgcrl/=oeuidhtns-;qjkxbwvz{}"<>PYFGCRL?+OEUIDHTNS_:QJKXBWVZ'''
def translate(strng):
   newstr = ''.join([DVORAK[QWERTY.index(i)] for i in strng])
   return newstr
startstr = QWERTY
for i in range(1000):
   startstr = translate(startstr)
   if startstr==QWERTY:
     print i
     break

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:37 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
taixzo wrote:I ran it through a python script; it looks like the answer is 209. Here's the code, in case anyone wants to check my work:

Code: Select all

-=qwertyuiop[]sdfghjkl;'zxcvbn,./_+QWERTYUIOP{}SDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBN<>?
[]',.pyfgcrl/=oeuidhtns-;qjkxbwvz{}"<>PYFGCRL?+OEUIDHTNS_:QJKXBWVZ'


Visually, a cycle of 15, a cycle of 2, parts of the first cycle, another 2...

The number will be a priduct of 2, 3 and 5, minimally, but battery is on 1%, so I'll leave it to someone else to compkete...

[Long after ETAed to add, certainly certainly ninjaed: I then spotted a 14 pattern, before power went. And after that (left charger at home, only just bagged a recharge!) in my head decided that a 209 cycle looked like factors of 11 and 19 were involved. But, given that 2x3x5x7=210, decided you'd done an off-by-one error. But what I really want to do is compare typical UK flavour QWERTY and Dvorak keyboard layouts. That may be differently factoring... Anyway, now to read the rest of the thread, while this charge lasts. Pity i drained my backup powerpacks earlier that day.]

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:14 pm UTC
by taixzo
Soupspoon wrote:
taixzo wrote:I ran it through a python script; it looks like the answer is 209. Here's the code, in case anyone wants to check my work:

Code: Select all

-=qwertyuiop[]sdfghjkl;'zxcvbn,./_+QWERTYUIOP{}SDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBN<>?
[]',.pyfgcrl/=oeuidhtns-;qjkxbwvz{}"<>PYFGCRL?+OEUIDHTNS_:QJKXBWVZ'


Visually, a cycle of 15, a cycle of 2, parts of the first cycle, another 2...

The number will be a priduct of 2, 3 and 5, minimally, but battery is on 1%, so I'll leave it to someone else to compkete...


I guess the actual number is 210, as it starts counting at 0. That gives a product of 2 * 3 * 5 * 7.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:19 pm UTC
by BrianB
Burton wrote:It's an "S". He's saying "Okay Google Send a Text". (If you press the corresponding Qwerty key on a Dvorak keyboard).


Aha! I tried it the other way around at first (Dvorak to QWERTY key). I thought to myself WTH does ";.af f;;frh zpj a vhnv" mean?

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:53 pm UTC
by squall_line
keithl wrote:When I first looked at this forum page, there was no translation.


:?: :?: :?:
Unless there were two threads that were later merged, the original post contained the translation; it's the sole reason I took the time to create the post.

BrianB wrote:Aha! I tried it the other way around at first (Dvorak to QWERTY key). I thought to myself WTH does ";.af f;;frh zpj a vhnv" mean?


I started that way, too. I got through the first word before I tried it in reverse. :oops:

I'm still a bit confused how Speech Recognition would be programmed as an *overlay* of the keyboard, rather than as a translation tool.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:11 pm UTC
by Old Bruce
gmalivuk wrote:
Old Bruce wrote:That isn't how "GOOGLE" is spelt/spelled.

How do you figure?

Poorly.
My mistake, I messed up with the "G"s in "Google". Everything else made sense, except I switched back to Dvorak to Qwerty (or do I mean the vice versa) for the Gs and only the Gs, just my Selective Dvorak Dyslexia Syndrome (not a real thing TM) kicking in for the first time.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:51 pm UTC
by niauropsaka
Τηατ'σ νοτ ηος τηισ ςορκσ! Τηατ'σ νοτ ηος ανυ οφ τηισ ςορκσ!

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:04 pm UTC
by ps.02
niauropsaka wrote:Τηατ'σ νοτ ηος τηισ ςορκσ! Τηατ'σ νοτ ηος ανυ οφ τηισ ςορκσ!

Wow - is there really a Greek keyboard layout so close to QWERTY? I mean, that's impressively close to direct transliteration. (Mainly, ς should be ω. And of course there are things no simple keyboard layout change will get right, like Θ for th.)

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:23 pm UTC
by Flumble
Υεσ, τηε δεφαθλτ Γρεεκ λαυοθτ ισ βασιψαλλυ τηε ΘΣ ;ςΕΡΤΥ λαυοθτ ςιτη σομε "ςειρδ" λεττερσ ςηερε εωερ τηε Γρεεκ αλπηαβετ δοεσν'τ ηαωε α ψορρεσπονδινγ Λατιν λεττερ. (ανδ α ;θεστιον μαρκ ατ τηε λοψατιον οφ τηε : )

Унфортунателъ, фор Църиллиц ъоу хаже то гет а нон-стандард лаъоут то гет сометхинг тхат тъпес лике ЯВЕРТЪ. Фор еьампле, тхис ис тхе "Булгариан традитионал пхонетиц лаъоут".

Итс пробабли бетер ту врайт фонетиккали лайк дис до, бикос Сириллик ис а лот дифферент фром Латин. Δε γκρηκ αμποβ βας ετ ληστ λεζιμπολ, βερες δε Σιριλικ νταουν χιρ ις μορ λεζιμπολ δεν δε γκρηκ χιρ.*


*In short, I'm not certain I did the greek phonetics right. But I blame Modern Greek for that. Doric Greek at least used single letters to describe different sounds and had more than five vowels. (for as far as the phonology can be reconstructed)

[edit] small fixes

Ruby decoder (pry repl)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:37 pm UTC
by mznow

Code: Select all

~$ pry
[1] pry(main)> xkcd1787='svat ussupd ;dlh a kdbk';
[2] pry(main)> qwerty=('`1234567890-=qwertyuiop[]\asdfghjkl;'"'"'zxcvbnm,./~!@#$%^&*()_+QWERTYUIOP{}|ASDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBNM<>? ').chars ;
[3] pry(main)> dvorak=('`1234567890[]'"'"',.pyfgcrl/=\aoeuidhtns-;qjkxbmwvz~!@#$%^&*(){}"<>PYFGCRL?+|AOEUIDHTNS_:QJKXBMWVZ ').chars ;
[4] pry(main)> (xkcd1787.chars.each_with_object qwerty.zip dvorak).map do |xkcd_chr, dtoq| (dtoq.assoc xkcd_chr).last end.join
=> "okay google send a text"
[5] pry(main)>

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:47 pm UTC
by RandyKC
Using Dvorak might help certain Twitter users make their tweets more intelligible. (Still dealing with recent events)

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:11 am UTC
by chridd
Soupspoon wrote:
taixzo wrote:I ran it through a python script; it looks like the answer is 209. Here's the code, in case anyone wants to check my work:

Code: Select all

-=qwertyuiop[]sdfghjkl;'zxcvbn,./_+QWERTYUIOP{}SDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBN<>?
[]',.pyfgcrl/=oeuidhtns-;qjkxbwvz{}"<>PYFGCRL?+OEUIDHTNS_:QJKXBWVZ'


Visually, a cycle of 15, a cycle of 2, parts of the first cycle, another 2...

The number will be a priduct of 2, 3 and 5, minimally, but battery is on 1%, so I'll leave it to someone else to compkete...
A cycle of 15, a cycle of 14, two cycles of 2, and `1234567890\am are all cycles of 1. (Double the number of each type of cycle if you count shifted keys separately.)

Code: Select all

'qxbnlpros;z/[- 15
,w 2
.edhjcigufytkv 14
=] 2

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:17 am UTC
by RogueCynic
I just got a new cell phone and carrier. I am used to fast typing to get the individual letters. I tried sending a text and all sorts of strange words popped up. I'd like to see how voice command devices work with "huked on fonix".

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:16 am UTC
by Copper Bezel
Swipe typing, like T9 before it, is surprisingly unforgiving to poor spellers. = [

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:29 am UTC
by ps.02
Flumble wrote:Унфортунателъ, фор Църиллиц ъоу хаже то гет а нон-стандард лаъоут то гет сометхинг тхат тъпес лике ЯВЕРТЪ. Фор еьампле, тхис ис тхе "Булгариан традитионал пхонетиц лаъоут".

Huh, interesting. This "Bulgarian standard phonetic" does work pretty well for this purpose, doesn't it? (It's factoids like these that make me insufferable in person, so thanks for that.)
Δε γκρηκ αμποβ βας ετ ληστ λεζιμπολ, βερες δε ςιριλικ νταουν χιρ ις μορ λεζιμπολ δεν δε γκρηκ χιρ.*

The rest of your post was straightforward but I can't make anything of this last sentence.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:25 am UTC
by niauropsaka
I think Flumble was trying to say, "The Greek above was at least legible, whereas the Cyrillic down here is more legible than the Greek here."

Serious points for trying to get Demotic phonics, such as they are, correct. Two points taken off for using ς instead of Σ at the beginning of "Cyrillic."

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:26 am UTC
by clockworkbookreader
Our Peerless Cartoonist needs an anatomy lesson. You can use vocal CORDS to hum one note of a musical CHORD.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:27 am UTC
by fibonacci
clockworkbookreader wrote:Our Peerless Cartoonist needs an anatomy lesson. You can use vocal CORDS to hum one note of a musical CHORD.

Vocal chords allow multi-byte Unicode input by using Tuvan throat singing.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:23 pm UTC
by somitomi
Flumble wrote:Υεσ, τηε δεφαθλτ Γρεεκ λαυοθτ ισ βασιψαλλυ τηε ΘΣ ;ςΕΡΤΥ λαυοθτ ςιτη σομε "ςειρδ" λεττερσ ςηερε εωερ τηε Γρεεκ αλπηαβετ δοεσν'τ ηαωε α ψορρεσπονδινγ Λατιν λεττερ. (ανδ α ;θεστιον μαρκ ατ τηε λοψατιον οφ τηε :)

Унфортунателъ, фор Църиллиц ъоу хаже то гет а нон-стандард лаъоут то гет сометхинг тхат тъпес лике ЯВЕРТЪ. Фор еьампле, тхис ис тхе "Булгариан традитионал пхонетиц лаъоут".

Итс пробабли бетер ту врайт фонетиккали лайк дис до, бикос Сириллик ис а лот дифферент фром Латин. Δε γκρηκ αμποβ βας ετ ληστ λεζιμπολ, βερες δε ςιριλικ νταουν χιρ ις μορ λεζιμπολ δεν δε γκρηκ χιρ.*


*In short, I'm not certain I did the greek phonetics right. But I blame Modern Greek for that. Doric Greek still used single letters to describe different sounds and had more than five vowels. (for as far as the phonology can be reconstructed)

Hmmm, is it weird if I can read cyrillic letters despite not speaking any language that uses it? I mean I know why I can read Greek letters (thanks, engineering school), but I had to actually bother learning cyrillic ones. Guess I had a lot of boring classes in high school...

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:53 pm UTC
by ChurchSkiz
I just realized how I'm going to be "an old guy" to my grandkids.

"Grandpa what is that rackety thing on your desk with all those letters?? You mean you actually have to touch the letters to make words???? Why not just let the voice module take over?"

"I prefer the old clicking of the keys!"

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:39 pm UTC
by Heimhenge
ChurchSkiz wrote:I just realized how I'm going to be "an old guy" to my grandkids.

"Grandpa what is that rackety thing on your desk with all those letters?? You mean you actually have to touch the letters to make words???? Why not just let the voice module take over?"

"I prefer the old clicking of the keys!"


You have GOT to be kidding me. I mean, I know there are/were some famous writers who stuck with typewriters after the dawn of the word processor, but I never understood the motivation.

I struggled through writing a student tech manual the old way. Then going back and drawing in the equations/subscripts/superscripts etc. with a Koh-i-Noor ink pen (not to mention going through a lot of correcting fluid). Took frikkin' forever. If I'd have waited a few years I could have done it with a word processor in probably half the time. When I got my first word processor, a DOS-based app called New York Edit that came on a single floppy disc, my life changed in a "quantum leap" kinda way. Well, at least my writing life ... didn't make me any less a geek. But geez ... a choice of fonts, different sizes, inflection marks. Writing was actually fun. Best of all ... no ribbon tool bars!

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:54 pm UTC
by Mikeski
ChurchSkiz wrote:I just realized how I'm going to be "an old guy" to my grandkids.

"Grandpa what is that rackety thing on your desk with all those letters?? You mean you actually have to touch the letters to make words???? Why not just let the voice module take over?"

"The keyboard. How quaint."

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:20 pm UTC
by Unclevertitle
After laughing hysterically at today's comic I started considering changing "Okay Google" to a audible version of "Svat Ussupd" as a means of making sure my phone doesn't start accidentally thinking I'm talking to it due to audio from the TV...

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:20 pm UTC
by Pfhorrest
Mikeski wrote:
ChurchSkiz wrote:I just realized how I'm going to be "an old guy" to my grandkids.

"Grandpa what is that rackety thing on your desk with all those letters?? You mean you actually have to touch the letters to make words???? Why not just let the voice module take over?"

"The keyboard. How quaint."

"You mean you have to use your HANDS!? It's like a baby's toy!"

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:04 pm UTC
by Flumble
niauropsaka wrote:I think Flumble was trying to say, "The Greek above was at least legible, whereas the Cyrillic down here is more legible than the Greek here."

Serious points for trying to get Demotic phonics, such as they are, correct. Two points taken off for using ς instead of Σ at the beginning of "Cyrillic."

That's correct.
And I'm flattered. How the hell did I mess up the C in Cyrillic though? :oops:

ps.02 wrote:
Δε γκρηκ αμποβ βας ετ ληστ λεζιμπολ, βερες δε ςιριλικ νταουν χιρ ις μορ λεζιμπολ δεν δε γκρηκ χιρ.*

The rest of your post was straightforward but I can't make anything of this last sentence.

Blame the Greeks. They thought it was a good idea to pronounce β as a v, δ as a th, η as an ee and so on. So they now have μπ for a b, ντ for a d and γκ for a g.

somitomi wrote:Hmmm, is it weird if I can read cyrillic letters despite not speaking any language that uses it? I mean I know why I can read Greek letters (thanks, engineering school), but I had to actually bother learning cyrillic ones. Guess I had a lot of boring classes in high school...

Does it matter whether it's weird? At least we can read street signs in Eastern Europe. :D (And transliterate memes in order to find some audio/video sources, which was my main drive to learn the alphabet :P )

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:04 pm UTC
by ps.02
somitomi wrote:Hmmm, is it weird if I can read cyrillic letters despite not speaking any language that uses it? I mean I know why I can read Greek letters (thanks, engineering school), but I had to actually bother learning cyrillic ones.

Well, and to be fair, once you pick up the Greek alphabet, you're already halfway to sounding out Cyrillic.

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:10 pm UTC
by Aubri
I've gotten fairly good at transliterating Aurebesh, especially given a bit of context. (Unfortunately, those characters are not included in the Unicode standard for some reason.)

This does not help me get around Eastern Europe, but if I ever wind up on Coruscant...

Re: 1787: "Voice Commands"

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:49 pm UTC
by somitomi
ps.02 wrote:
somitomi wrote:Hmmm, is it weird if I can read cyrillic letters despite not speaking any language that uses it? I mean I know why I can read Greek letters (thanks, engineering school), but I had to actually bother learning cyrillic ones.

Well, and to be fair, once you pick up the Greek alphabet, you're already halfway to sounding out Cyrillic.

That's the thing, I learned ciryllic before starting university and inadvertently being exposed to Greek letters on a daily basis.