1983: "Clutter"

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1983: "Clutter"

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:02 pm UTC

Image
I found a copy of The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up, but the idea of reading it didn't spark joy, so I gave it away.

The now-nameless OP who got almost everything wrong about how to start an individual comic thread wrote:You missed the enormous uptick at "inherit my parent's stuff" and the even-more-enormous downtick at "die."
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Re: 1983 - Clutter

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:13 pm UTC

When I first moved out of my dad's shack, I was proud of the fact that all my worldly possessions fit into my car. That means I wasn't a clutterbug like my mom, I was lean and clean and spartan.

Now the fact that there are a lot of pretty ordinary things that I can't own because my home is too tiny to so much as store them somewhere unused depresses me.
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Re: 1983 - Clutter

Postby Samik » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:01 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:When I first moved out of my dad's shack, I was proud of the fact that all my worldly possessions fit into my car. That means I wasn't a clutterbug like my mom, I was lean and clean and spartan.

Now the fact that there are a lot of pretty ordinary things that I can't own because my home is too tiny to so much as store them somewhere unused depresses me.

I did the same thing a while back - picked up and moved cross country, and downsized all my possessions to fit into my car - but have only continued downsizing since, and want to continue to do so.

At some point I'm going to get around to officially doing the '100 thing challenge'.

My ideal would be to be able to carry everything I own on my person, so I could just get on a plane and move anywhere in the world without hassle, while still managing to come across as a reasonably put-together non-hobo.

That would probably only be possible if I give up hiking/climbing, because right now I can fill a pack with gear for that purpose alone, leaving no room for my function-in-civilization possessions. Maybe I'll just try to get down to two packs, and call that close enough...

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby sotanaht » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:18 pm UTC

Samik wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:When I first moved out of my dad's shack, I was proud of the fact that all my worldly possessions fit into my car. That means I wasn't a clutterbug like my mom, I was lean and clean and spartan.

Now the fact that there are a lot of pretty ordinary things that I can't own because my home is too tiny to so much as store them somewhere unused depresses me.

I did the same thing a while back - picked up and moved cross country, and downsized all my possessions to fit into my car - but have only continued downsizing since, and want to continue to do so.

At some point I'm going to get around to officially doing the '100 thing challenge'.

My ideal would be to be able to carry everything I own on my person, so I could just get on a plane and move anywhere in the world without hassle, while still managing to come across as a reasonably put-together non-hobo.

That would probably only be possible if I give up hiking/climbing, because right now I can fill a pack with gear for that purpose alone, leaving no room for my function-in-civilization possessions. Maybe I'll just try to get down to two packs, and call that close enough...

So you don't own a bed or any real furniture?

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Re: 1983 - Clutter

Postby somitomi » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:43 pm UTC

Samik wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:When I first moved out of my dad's shack, I was proud of the fact that all my worldly possessions fit into my car. That means I wasn't a clutterbug like my mom, I was lean and clean and spartan.

Now the fact that there are a lot of pretty ordinary things that I can't own because my home is too tiny to so much as store them somewhere unused depresses me.

I did the same thing a while back - picked up and moved cross country, and downsized all my possessions to fit into my car - but have only continued downsizing since, and want to continue to do so.

At some point I'm going to get around to officially doing the '100 thing challenge'.

My ideal would be to be able to carry everything I own on my person, so I could just get on a plane and move anywhere in the world without hassle, while still managing to come across as a reasonably put-together non-hobo.

That would probably only be possible if I give up hiking/climbing, because right now I can fill a pack with gear for that purpose alone, leaving no room for my function-in-civilization possessions. Maybe I'll just try to get down to two packs, and call that close enough...

I'm assuming none of you lot own any furniture, because that alone can take up several times the capacity of a minivan. But even without furniture I'd probably have trouble fitting everything into a single car, I still have a lot of stuff at my parents' place 7 months after moving out. Although a large part of that is my model railway layout (which I couldn't possibly find space for in my current residence) and the three boxes of things I've never thrown out because "the layout is still under construction, I might need them".
What's this "100 thing challenge" by the way?
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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby airdrik » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:50 pm UTC

Kids don't help, unless you call it "help" when they shorten this graph down to fit inside a month, week or even day :( (kids come home from school; dump shoes, backpack, books and/or papers randomly around the house; pull out toys, books, papers, food, etc. and distribute that in similar fashion; you ask them to clean the room and they pick up the toys, maybe)

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby qvxb » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:57 am UTC

Eventually there will be a big vertical drop then the line will continue horizontally.

The notation will be "Rosebud, broken snow globe, other assorted junk", in a different printing style than previous entries.

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby Zamfir » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:05 am UTC

Some year ago we moved from A to B, and the movers estimated how much boxes we needed, with their typical plenty-is-enough method. We started running out when packing, and called for more. They laughed at us, but send more boxes just to keep us happy. We filled them all.

On the day of the move, we told this to some other guy from the moving firm who looked surprised "why didn't they send this number of boxes at the start? It's our standard for 2-kids-households"

The next time we moved from B to C, we really had a kid ( not two though), and a lot more stuff. We decided to throw away stuff until we could fit everything in the same number of boxes as the previous time. That was long hard work.

Now we have those 2 kids, and our house in C is twice as big as the one in A, plus a shed in the garden. It's still filling up quickly.

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby Bloopy » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:47 am UTC

My sister and I will have a crazy amount of toys and books to clean out of our parents' house at some point. I'm not very materialistic as an adult but still have various things stored on the floor, plus my dining table covered in random stuff. :?

I found a copy of The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up, but the idea of reading it didn't spark joy, so I gave it away.

Correction: it's still in that pile over there!

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby twatson » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:27 pm UTC

the graph shows an increasing trend line of STUFF over TIME but as we get older and more successful we have more skills, more responsibilities, and can afford more space. My point is the "healthy" plot will be a curve not a flat line.

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Re: 1983 - Clutter

Postby Quercus » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:36 pm UTC

Samik wrote:That would probably only be possible if I give up hiking/climbing, because right now I can fill a pack with gear for that purpose alone, leaving no room for my function-in-civilization possessions. Maybe I'll just try to get down to two packs, and call that close enough...


Yeah, I probably have well over 100 things simply between hiking, climbing, camping, sailing and photography gear... I feel that challenge isn't designed for people actively pursuing gear-intensive hobbies.

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Re: 1983 - Clutter

Postby Samik » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:45 pm UTC

sotanaht wrote:So you don't own a bed or any real furniture?

somitomi wrote:I'm assuming none of you lot own any furniture, because that alone can take up several times the capacity of a minivan.

Well, there's caveats I suppose. As a non-homeowner/renter, I'm either living in a prefurnished place, or when not, have gotten very good at the craigslist shuffle. I can fill a place with furniture in a couple days, then turn it all back over just as fast when I move out, for about the same price. So yes, I do technically own that furniture in the meantime, but will never have to pack it up when I move. I guess that is cheating, but the furniture never feels like part of my core belongings, if that makes sense.

And either way, even when "fully" furnished, you'd probably still think my place looks empty. Your basic futon/desk/dresser setup, usually. I prefer very small places, and to not spend very much time in them.


somitomi wrote:What's this "100 thing challenge" by the way?

Pretty much what it says on the tin: Own no more than 100 items.

There's a lot of unavoidable ambiguity - Do I have to count every individual sheet of paper in my box of personal documents? Probably not. What about spare parts for my computer? If so, how granular must I be? Individual screws, or only large components? Every tool in my toolbox? What about things that come in sets, like tire chains? - but the idea is just to really challenge yourself to simplify and trim away as many nonessentials as possible.


Quercus wrote:Yeah, I probably have well over 100 things simply between hiking, climbing, camping, sailing and photography gear... I feel that challenge isn't designed for people actively pursuing gear-intensive hobbies.

Yeah, hobbies are pretty near fatal. Have one, maybe. Have two or more, like you, and forget it.

I think it's right on the edge of feasibility that I could get down to 100 things even with my outdoor gear - I'm exclusively a summer hiker and my kit is pretty spartan - but could certainly never get all the way down to being able to carry everything I own on my person.

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby Bessy Sue » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:09 pm UTC

My folks always said "three moves is a fire" (meaning after three moves all your old stuff was thrown or trashed and might as well be burned up). Digitally, I expect that means that three hard drive upgrades and I can't find my original files...

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Re: 1983 - Clutter

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:55 pm UTC

Samik wrote:As a non-homeowner/renter, I'm either living in a prefurnished place, or when not, have gotten very good at the craigslist shuffle. I can fill a place with furniture in a couple days, then turn it all back over just as fast when I move out, for about the same price. So yes, I do technically own that furniture in the meantime, but will never have to pack it up when I move. I guess that is cheating, but the furniture never feels like part of my core belongings, if that makes sense.

At least it's not the Sims Shuffle. One of your Sims needs to sleep? Buy and install a new bed in the otherwise unfurnished room, until they wake, and nobody else needs to sleep (that you haven't already bought another new bed for) then you sell it, and temporarily buy the food processor to give them breakfast, or that big TV to entertain them, or that guitar to practice on, for as long as necessary to get them fit for work to earn the money you need to pay the miniscule 'rental' bills.

(Well, it worked well enough in original Sims. Maybe Sims 2 too, but doubtless de-exploited by the timr the mandatory-online Sims 3 came out and people were now technically playing against each other or whatever the reason was for doing that and thus making that a consequential effect.)

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Re: 1983 - Clutter

Postby somitomi » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:12 am UTC

Samik wrote:Well, there's caveats I suppose. As a non-homeowner/renter, I'm either living in a prefurnished place, or when not, have gotten very good at the craigslist shuffle. I can fill a place with furniture in a couple days, then turn it all back over just as fast when I move out, for about the same price. So yes, I do technically own that furniture in the meantime, but will never have to pack it up when I move. I guess that is cheating, but the furniture never feels like part of my core belongings, if that makes sense.

Yes, it does. Actually I pretty much moved into a prefurnished place, if only because my older sister didn't take any of her furniture when she moved in with her boyfriend. The idea of not having to move furniture sounds appealing after last summer though, when three of us moved basically simultaneously, necessitating several trips just to carry furniture from one place to another (and deposit superfluous furniture at my parents' place).
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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby GalFisk » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:10 pm UTC

airdrik wrote:Kids don't help, unless you call it "help" when they shorten this graph down to fit inside a month, week or even day :( (kids come home from school; dump shoes, backpack, books and/or papers randomly around the house; pull out toys, books, papers, food, etc. and distribute that in similar fashion; you ask them to clean the room and they pick up the toys, maybe)

I had a teen. It was impossible to ask her to do a chore, but it was quite easy to ask her to help me do it, especially if we were going to do something fun afterwards. Making it fun, or making it into a challenge (speed or accuracy or whatever) also works, but you need to participate. That way you're the leader, not the boss.

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:54 pm UTC

Bessy Sue wrote:My folks always said "three moves is a fire" (meaning after three moves all your old stuff was thrown or trashed and might as well be burned up). Digitally, I expect that means that three hard drive upgrades and I can't find my original files...

I can vouch for that; even after just graduating from college and replacing my computer once, I found that I had managed to lose the master files for a lot of stuff I had done during college without any memory of intentionally deleting anything. To say nothing of many, many things I did before that and wish in hindsight that I still had. The result is that I'm a bit paranoid about deleting anything now.
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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby Leovan » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:45 am UTC

I actually like moving. Which is a good thing because I'm packing for a transatlantic move right now. Decluttering takes longer than packing though. Especially if you also try to sell some of the furniture.
And the customs paperwork is a pain. Still better than immigration :D

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby pogrmman » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:27 pm UTC

The 100 item challenge seems interesting. I mean, I’m always suprisingly comfortable when I’m backpacking and hauling around all my stuff. The hardest part for me to do that would be books. I’ve got tons of them — I’ve always been an avid reader, so most gifts I’ve gotten were books. I’ve bought books for myself too. Not to mention the books that I (temporarily) own for school. I think that just in my dorm room, I’ve got like 50 books. Aside from hobbies though, I don’t have a whole ton of seperate items (and I’d be fine going without a lot of it). Hobbies do seem to make it a lot harder, though. Just between my 2 main ones that aren’t reading (carnivorous plants and astronomy), I’ve got like 60 items (probably more). Heck, just for astronomy, there’s my telescope, the mount, a few eyepieces, barlows, two filters, star atlas, a case, and my sketching supplies (pencils, paper, blending stumps, eraser, eraser shield, red light). And I have a pretty limited amount of gear for somebody who is seriously into astronomy.

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby clockworkbookreader » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:39 pm UTC

The 100 Item Challenge seems to me to be a thing people do to feel superior to people who just want to get on with their lives... like bicycling or all the people who think that going gluten free means I should as well.
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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby orthogon » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:32 pm UTC

clockworkbookreader wrote:The 100 Item Challenge seems to me to be a thing people do to feel superior to people who just want to get on with their lives... like bicycling or all the people who think that going gluten free means I should as well.

Yeah, the gluten thing. But some of us bicycle as a convenient means of getting on with our lives, and don't go on at other people about it.

Oh, shit, just defeated my own argument.
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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:55 pm UTC

Despite having just pontificated about various forms of cycling (in the Meterologist comic thread) I agree about certain "bicyclists", "bikers" and "men (or women) on bikes". I've cycled since I was old enough to ride my own (very small) bike, and also technically before that (tandem, bike seat, bike-towed trailer, though never a Rann Trailer, these days more commonly known as a trailer-bike), but I've never been evangelical about it.

Also, I grew up knowing how to ride on the road, while 'Born Again bikers' seem to be the weird antithesis of the motorists who clearly haven't read their highway code and presume that bikes aren't allowed on the highway, in that they have become support for those incorrect assumptions by assuming that they can ride everywhere especially the footway (and ignoring traffic signals and road markings at whim when they do deign to ostensibly adopt their rightful place as road vehicles).

Makes me annoyed. But silently elitist about it, for the most part. I'll mostly discuss the merits (or not) of a bike-riders' illegal footway-use only when I'm a pedestrian (fully knowing that it gives me less credence than if.I were visibally proven to be a fellow propellor of the pedals, and might also let me keep pace with them if I was so inclined). I don't think I've ever told a perambulating person that they need a bike as I sprint past.

It's good to ride a bike (it may even make some drivers appreciate their responsibilties on the road if they pick up the habit of the cycling 'fad' (though I think the Mr Walker/Mr Wheeler thing often just picks up a third alter-ego), but it's no longer the great social leveller. It's often more a temporary 'brag-tag' one might apply to onself until the novelty of the often less than fair-weathered activity hastens the day their marvelously over-expensive bike just gathers cobwebs in the shed or bids upon eBay.


(I know nothing about freedom from gluten. I have no apparent medical need to do so, as with much of the population. I do avoid peanuts, as an equivalent, but that's just because I don't like their flavour. I'd probably avoid gluten if I didn't like it, but I'm not sure there's a flavour issue there. Going further than that seems rather superficial. And overly restrictive to be a valid voluntary choice. Though I suppose mainstream (unneccessary) take-up of gluten-free products, like the increase of the less irresponsible forms of cycling, does increase the availability of glutenless things and second-hand cycle equipment for those people who do need them to fulfill one additional level or other of Maslow's hierarchical pyramid.)


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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:41 pm UTC

clockworkbookreader wrote:The 100 Item Challenge seems to me to be a thing people do to feel superior to people who just want to get on with their lives... like bicycling or all the people who think that going gluten free means I should as well.


Have you ever encountered a "no-car" evangelist?

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby jgh » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:19 am UTC

100 items??? That wouldn't even get to the end of one bookshelf.

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:03 am UTC

Glue all the books together, thus making two items. (The shelf and the book(s). I'm not going to suggest you glue them to the shelf as well. That'd be silly!)

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:41 pm UTC

Hundred item folks (or people trying to minimalize in general) tend not to have much overlap with book hoarders.
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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby Quercus » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:10 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Hundred item folks (or people trying to minimalize in general) tend not to have much overlap with book hoarders.


I'm kinda trying to do both right now, at least to a degree. E-books are my salvation

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby Mikeski » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:11 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Hundred item folks (or people trying to minimalize in general) tend not to have much overlap with book hoarders.

Hm. I would have thought that a large number of them lived in public libraries.

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Re: 1983: "Clutter"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:17 pm UTC

Or in one of these?
Spoiler:
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He looks worried. I think he knows how much reinforcement the door-lintel actually has, from his inside view, as well as the roof.


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