2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

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pebkac
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2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby pebkac » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:37 am UTC

Image
Title text: "My theory is that dark matter is actually just a thin patina of grime covering the whole universe, and we don't notice it because we haven't thoroughly cleaned the place in eons."

Personally, I promote the theory that dark matter == Dyson Spheres.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby rhomboidal » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:50 am UTC

My theory is along the lines of space cows, except they're weakly interacting "moo-ons."

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:00 am UTC

Dyson spheres would emit black body radiation of the average temperature of themselves and their contents, and so glow detectably and not be dark.
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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Mikeski » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:06 am UTC

Found one of the buzzkill astronomers! :mrgreen:

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Thesh » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:38 am UTC

There is neither dark matter nor dark energy; our model of spacetime is simply incorrect on intergalactic scales because we mistakenly assume the speed of light is constant for all observers. In actuality, the speed of light simply appears to change as you get further away.
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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:41 am UTC

It's teapots that only exist where no teapot can exist.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby YellowYeti » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:47 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:It's teapots that only exist where no teapot can exist.


Teapots all the way down?

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby orthogon » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:55 am UTC

It's made up of various things: biros, Allen keys, M3 nuts, car keys, Mrs orthogon's missing passport, flashdrives, F-to-BNC adapters and Amelia Earhart's plane.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Imposter » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:08 am UTC

My son's theory, which I rather like, is that it's Space Vampires. We keep looking for them using the Hubble Space Telescope and the like, but they can't be seen in mirrors.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby McBee » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:23 am UTC

Thesh wrote:There is neither dark matter nor dark energy; our model of spacetime is simply incorrect on intergalactic scales because we mistakenly assume the speed of light is constant for all observers. In actuality, the speed of light simply appears to change as you get further away.


So if it only "appears" to change as you get further away, does it then, in actual actuality, stay the same?

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Thesh » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:41 am UTC

You mean if someone in a far away galaxy points a telescope at our galaxy then will the speed of light in our galaxy change? No.
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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby GlassHouses » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:32 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:There is neither dark matter nor dark energy; our model of spacetime is simply incorrect on intergalactic scales because we mistakenly assume the speed of light is constant for all observers. In actuality, the speed of light simply appears to change as you get further away.

That may work as a way to handwave away dark energy (I actually suspect it doesn't, but I don't know enough about the issue to make an argument), but the problem that dark matter was postulated to solve is galaxies rotating too fast, and that definitely can't be made go away by screwing with the speed of light...

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Thesh » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:46 pm UTC

No, it all works; it implies a different shape of spacetime, which means the galaxies don't behave as expected. And by works, I mean, it handwaves that away as well, not that it actually explains it.
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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby sonar1313 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:49 pm UTC

If dark matter is bees I am NEVER going out into space EVER.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby patzer » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:55 pm UTC

My personal theory is that dark matter is in fact a highly advanced material constructed by alien civilizations as a more efficient place to live in than planets, and that's the answer to the Fermi paradox.
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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby x7eggert » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:33 pm UTC

McBee wrote:
Thesh wrote:There is neither dark matter nor dark energy; our model of spacetime is simply incorrect on intergalactic scales because we mistakenly assume the speed of light is constant for all observers. In actuality, the speed of light simply appears to change as you get further away.


So if it only "appears" to change as you get further away, does it then, in actual actuality, stay the same?


I'd argue yes, since I'd argue the speed of light is purely virtual since they experience neither time nor distance. Also I argue that calculating a flat 3D space is wrong, it's rather shaped like a 3D version of a balloon surface with us at the top and the Big Bang at the bottom, time arrow pointing up.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:07 pm UTC

x7eggert wrote:Also I argue that calculating a flat 3D space is wrong, it's rather shaped like a 3D version of a balloon surface with us at the top and the Big Bang at the bottom, time arrow pointing up.
We live at the Big Crunch? Wow, special times!

(I say it's more like a bell. The closed end (whether up or down) is the BB, expansion and wotnot dictates the changing profile as you go down(/up), and the 'open' end is either infinitely far down(/up) or the bell 'rim' ends (frays?) at the point of the Big Rip. Space-as-we-know-it is mapped to various radial dimensions perpendicular to the time one (finite but without an edge boundary). And I have absolutely no evidence for that, but it works for me!)

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby IKnowNothing » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:38 pm UTC

I believe we have missed the most likely candidate. The size varies but it is pervasive throughout space and time. There is uncounted amounts of it. It is dark. It does matter. What is it? It is ignorance. I call this the dark matter paradox. To know the composition of dark matter (dark energy) is to eliminate it. The inverse: To not know the composition of dark matter (dark energy) is to create it.

Now the jokes can begin.

    Because we all now know the true source of dark matter (dark energy), we have eliminated much of it and risk changing the laws of the universe thereby leading to its ultimate destruction.
    I could tell you the true source of dark matter (dark energy) but that would risk unraveling the universe.

Please feel welcome to add.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby sotanaht » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:49 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Dyson spheres would emit black body radiation of the average temperature of themselves and their contents, and so glow detectably and not be dark.

So we think. Anyone advanced enough to actually build a Dyson Sphere though might have technology that effectively "cloaks" them

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby speising » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:22 pm UTC

sotanaht wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Dyson spheres would emit black body radiation of the average temperature of themselves and their contents, and so glow detectably and not be dark.

So we think. Anyone advanced enough to actually build a Dyson Sphere though might have technology that effectively "cloaks" them

if you can defeat thermodynamics, you don't need no puny Dyson sphere.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby chenille » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:40 pm UTC

I presume "space cows" because we think terrestrial cows would be unable to survive away from the earth; "bees" without such qualification because we think they may be the same, given our bees' penchant for recognizing galactic royalty. But I wonder about "no-see-ums".

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby SuicideJunkie » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:42 pm UTC

Dark energy is due to high end civilizations wanting us youngsters to get off their visible universe lawns.
Dark matter is the result of mid level civilizations' bureaucracy demanding that the stars run on time despite all the practical problems of being too far from galactic centers.
Dark humor is because of us low level civilizations simply existing.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby somitomi » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:14 pm UTC

speising wrote:
sotanaht wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Dyson spheres would emit black body radiation of the average temperature of themselves and their contents, and so glow detectably and not be dark.

So we think. Anyone advanced enough to actually build a Dyson Sphere though might have technology that effectively "cloaks" them

if you can defeat thermodynamics, you don't need no puny Dyson sphere.

What if you need a Dyson sphere to defeat thermodynamics? Or maybe one of those Dyson bladeless fans...
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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Jorpho » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:18 pm UTC

Supersymmetry clearly requires sterile neutrinos to be paired with fertile neutrinos.

(No, not really.)

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby srisyadasti » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:10 pm UTC

I'm giving a talk at a working group meting for ADMX (the Axion Dark Matter eXperiment) tomorrow. I'm totes adding this comic to my powerpoint deck today. Though I'm still revising it, I'll share a link if anyone wants to see it.

BTW: I love "crazy" ideas about dark matter, though I stake my career on the conventional models because they seem most sensible to me. To comment on just the one "crazy" theory of cloaked, super-advanced civilizations: We have a very good idea of the ratio of photons (light) to baryons (ordinary matter) in the "dense, hot, plasma" age of the early universe (and thus today) from observation of the relative abundance of primordial elements (Hydrogen, Helium, Deuterium, etc) still around today. The total amount of ordinary matter we calculate from that is far short of the amount of matter necessary to explain the (lack of) curvature and expansion of the universe we observe today. So if the missing mass is indeed "cloaked civilizations", those civilizations must be made of dark matter. In that case, the "massive invisible civilization" hypothesis says nothing about invisible ordinary matter, but instead proposes that dark matter is for more interesting than is usually imagined.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:22 pm UTC

chenille wrote:I presume "space cows" because we think terrestrial cows would be unable to survive away from the earth; "bees" without such qualification because we think they may be the same, given our bees' penchant for recognizing galactic royalty. But I wonder about "no-see-ums".


Space cows are particularly popular with physicists - they're the well-known spherical cows in a vacuum...

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:26 pm UTC

My money is on soft/cold neutrinos. I need to find a seedy bar where I can bet on astronomy.

Space camouflage is way too expensive to use that much.

As a resident of Florida, I'm skeptical of any suggestion that pollen has non-zero mass, as Florida has not collapsed into a black hole. Indeed, I suspect pollen might be isomorphic to the quantum vacuum.

Space Obelisks are a no-go. While it's true that they can't be seen with open eyes, they can be readily seen with closed eyes.

What about the black holes ruled out by transition lensing?

The orbit lines is kind of the same thing as gravity working differently. But the brilliant part is (unlike most alternate gravity theories) it only changes how gravity works on the outside of objects, so we have an explanation for why dark matter motion doesn't match dust cloud motion.
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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:35 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:Supersymmetry clearly requires sterile neutrinos to be paired with fertile neutrinos.

It's the safest way. If you pair any fertile neutrino with another fertile neutrino and they love each other very much, then you're left trying to find good homes for all the new fertile neutrinos you'll end up with.

(And, at CERN, it's illegal to keep just the one neutrino. At least in the Swiss parts.)

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby keithl » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:05 pm UTC

Warm hot filaments between galaxies account for at least 30% of dark matter: arXiv:1806.0839 "Observations of the MIssing Baryons in the warm-hot intergalactic medium", for example.

Line mass through the rotation axis of a galaxy allows the outer regions of a galaxy to rotate at the same velocity as the inner regions, and might explain Vera Rubin's rotation curves. Dark doesn't mean exotic, it merely means baryonic mass that doesn't radiate light detectable by our current telescopes. The universe will make a lot more sense when we launch gigantic telescopes that can see more of it. For now, "we don't have the tools to find out, yet" is an annoying but sufficient answer to many astronomical and cosmological questions.

Earth escape energy is 17 kilowatt-hours per kilogram. Google pays less than 8 cents per kilowatt-hour wholesale for their data centers. Google's 2017 revenue was $80B. With the right launch technology, Google can afford to launch 6 million tons of space telescopes every year. With enough of those, astronomers hunting for dark matter can find it with a Google Search.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby keldor » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:18 pm UTC

So, if dark matter exists, why isn't there a significant amount in our solar system? You would expect it to collapse under gravity into "lumps" even if it doesn't directly interact with anything except through gravity. You can run a simple N-body simulation on your own computer to verify this. But we know that it hasn't accumulated for instance in the center of the Earth or the Sun since the measured densities are consistent with ordinary matter. Where is it?

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby speising » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:23 pm UTC

Why should it collapse, without friction?

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Old Bruce » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:18 pm UTC

Vampire Space Bees. This might also explain the disappearing bee colonies here.
Oh, and it would be Teapots all the up cause we're talking about space which is mostly up when I look at it.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby iabervon » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:35 pm UTC

Half a mark below ton, I was expecting James K Polk. But I think the real answer is that the physics engine released with some bugs, and fixing them now would make all the galaxies fly apart, so we're stuck with them.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby jgh » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:04 pm UTC

My theory is that the rubber sheet of space-time isn't infinitely elastic, and so after the passing of a mass through spacetime the indentation does not perfectly rebound, leaving a groove in the mass's wake. And as we perceive dips in space-time as a gravity well, and declare that a gravity well is due to mass pushing down the rubber sheet, we see a dip in the rubber sheet with no mass and declare that there must be some invisible mass there instead.

It's essentially the "heavy orbit lines" theory introduced above. As a mass orbits it will scour its orbit into the rubber sheet, and as the mass it is orbiting orbits its orbital centre, those orbits scours will progress through spacetime scouring more and more spacetime like a kiddie with a crayon.

I have this all typed up, but the cosmology-academic-industrial-complex won't publish it.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby AndrewGPaul » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:56 pm UTC

I can't remember in which of Terry Pratchett's books it was that he suggested that dark matter was just all the polystyrene packaging around the expensive electronic gizmos the astronomers ordered to look for the dark matter ...

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Thesh » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:52 pm UTC

jgh wrote:My theory is that the rubber sheet of space-time isn't infinitely elastic, and so after the passing of a mass through spacetime the indentation does not perfectly rebound, leaving a groove in the mass's wake. And as we perceive dips in space-time as a gravity well, and declare that a gravity well is due to mass pushing down the rubber sheet, we see a dip in the rubber sheet with no mass and declare that there must be some invisible mass there instead.


So what you are saying is that spacetime is closer to foam rubber, with dark matter being the rubber and dark energy being the air bubbles? That actually makes a lot of sense.
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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby ucim » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:55 pm UTC

jgh wrote:after the passing of a mass through spacetime the indentation does not perfectly rebound, leaving a groove in the mass's wake.
That's an attractive theory, but requires that there be an ether. Now I know there's an ether bunny, maybe that's where it lives?? But then the dark matter would just be all the ether eggs.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby keithl » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:27 am UTC

keldor wrote:So, if dark matter exists, why isn't there a significant amount in our solar system?

Compared to the vacuum between stars, and the much more tenuous vacuum between galaxies, the solar system is VERY dense. The dark matter needed to explain galactic rotation is the mass of a few atoms per cubic meter, IIRC, and would be much too thin to notice in our crowded solar system.

Even more dark matter is needed to balance some of the postulated dark energy, which was postulated to explain accelerated red shift of very distant Sn1a supernovae, which was postulated to explain the a few dozen extra photons per "standard candle" supernova in very distant young galaxies (postulated to behave much nearby old galaxies), captured by two different wavelength sensors on the Hubble space telescope, postulated to resemble what a continuous spectrum would look like if we had enough photons for spectrometry.

Also postulating that nothing else mimics an Sn1a, though Rashid Ouyed postulates that quark star collapse will stretch light curves the same way that distance does.

Frankly, I find the pile of postulates a pain in the posterior, but as Mark Twain wrote 135 years ago, "There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact." 135 years from now, giant space telescopes will help us find almost all the matter we call "dark", and even more anomalies to generate more postulates.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby Heimhenge » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:13 am UTC

At first I thought Modified Newtonian Dynamics was just bullshit. But with the recent ad hoc inventions of dark matter and dark energy I'm starting to think about MOND as a real possibility. I smell a symmetry lurking somewhere therein.

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Re: 2035: "Dark Matter Candidates"

Postby HES » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:20 am UTC

AndrewGPaul wrote:I can't remember in which of Terry Pratchett's books it was that he suggested that dark matter was just all the polystyrene packaging around the expensive electronic gizmos the astronomers ordered to look for the dark matter ...

Wasn't it Douglas Adams?
Mostly Harmless wrote:For a long period of time there was much speculation and controversy about where the so-called "missing matter" of the Universe had got to. All over the Galaxy the science departments of all the major universities were acquiring more and more elaborate equipment to probe and search the hearts of distant galaxies, and then the very centre and the very edges of the whole Universe, but when eventually it was tracked down it turned out in fact to he all the stuff which the equipment had been packed in.
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