2061: "Tectonics Game"

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2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Reka » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:57 pm UTC

Image
Title text: They're limiting the playtesters to type A3 V stars, so the games will all end before the Sun consumes the Earth.

This actually sounded like a cool game until the real-time part. Which is probably the point.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby tml » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:03 pm UTC

I would actually really enjoy a game like this with an adjustable time-scale; I have spent hundreds of hours in Universe Sandbox, would love the planetary scale version of it!

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby SuicideJunkie » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:27 pm UTC

Personally, I'm more interested the Fission tournament brackets. The uranium league has been rocked by a lot of bulk disqualifications and moderator doping scandals in the last century but, much like NASCAR, it is the horrifying deviations from the regular play that provide the most spectacle.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Old Bruce » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:29 pm UTC

Terry Pratchett's "Only You Can Save Mankind" (?) had a similar computer game written by one of the character, "Voyage to Sirius" the view of the star field would stay the same for decades.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby RyanofTinellb » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:54 pm UTC

Old Bruce wrote:Terry Pratchett's "Only You Can Save Mankind" (?) had a similar computer game written by one of the character, "Voyage to Sirius" the view of the star field would stay the same for decades.

I was coming here to say exactly this. Being as this is the only part of the book I remember.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:11 pm UTC

And there's the ongoing organ performance of a certain John Cage piece. The composer marked the score "As Slowly as Possible"
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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby pogrmman » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:51 pm UTC

Holy cow, I’d love to play this game (provided there was a variable timescale like KSP, of course). Someone oughtta work on this (I’d do it, but I have no time).

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Reka » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:02 pm UTC

...I just noticed that, according to the title text, Ponytail is a type A3 V star.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby DavidSh » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:24 pm UTC

It reminds me of how much a misnomer the Real TIme Strategy genre of games is. In the real world, strategies can take years to unfold.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Jorpho » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:46 pm UTC

There must be some good reason why EA hasn't re-released SimEarth (and all the other old Sim games) yet. They'd be sure to make thousands of dollars from people who would buy them and never actually play them (or play them for five minutes and then lose all enthusiasm).

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby KarenRei » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:10 pm UTC

Add me to the list of "seriously disappointed" people!

One of my ongoing temptations (which I've resisted because I know I'd never finish it) is to make a universe simulator that uses multiphase CFD simulations of whole planets (and the phenomena that alter them) to train neural nets, so you only need to simulate small patches at varying scales and timeperiods, and the neural nets fill in the gaps. There's a countless possibilities of the forms that real alien worlds could take, and I so want to see them. :)

It would be essential to include chemistry simulations for major species, which is an annoyance. But on the upside, arrhenius constants can be essentially neglected for most of the planets when you're dealing with chemistry over geological timeperiods. ;) Would need to utilize them on some short-term simulations of fast-moving fluids, however. Same sort of situation with solver selection: most of the phenomena that affect a planet could be - over geological timeperiods - be modeled with steady-state solvers (fast, stable). But some events - volcanic eruptions, impactors, etc - would require transient solvers.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:58 pm UTC

RyanofTinellb wrote:
Old Bruce wrote:Terry Pratchett's "Only You Can Save Mankind" (?) had a similar computer game written by one of the character, "Voyage to Sirius" the view of the star field would stay the same for decades.

I was coming here to say exactly this. Being as this is the only part of the book I remember.


Journey to Alpha Centauri which just displays a static pattern of dots on the screen for 4 years until one at the center of the screen enlarges into a circle and fills the screen, then a text message comes up "congratulating" you for making the trip and then telling you to go home...

Or at least that's my recollection - it's been a while since I read it, and I'm not sure where my copy currently is...

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:46 pm UTC

I know exactly where my copy is (also Dim Ond Ti All Achub y Ddynoliaeth) and it is an accident of scheduling that means I'm not there this very night. I can likely look it up by tomorrow night, though.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Old Bruce » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:05 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
RyanofTinellb wrote:
Old Bruce wrote:Terry Pratchett's "Only You Can Save Mankind" (?) had a similar computer game written by one of the character, "Voyage to Sirius" the view of the star field would stay the same for decades.

I was coming here to say exactly this. Being as this is the only part of the book I remember.


Journey to Alpha Centauri which just displays a static pattern of dots on the screen for 4 years until one at the center of the screen enlarges into a circle and fills the screen, then a text message comes up "congratulating" you for making the trip and then telling you to go home...

Or at least that's my recollection - it's been a while since I read it, and I'm not sure where my copy currently is...

And that tallies with my memory much more accurately than what my memory remembered. Four years seems to be too short though... Book is long ago donated to somewhere.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby j6m8 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:39 pm UTC

Would you feel okay with it being side-scroller-shaped instead of a circle, the extra trig is slowing down my starter implementation like crazy...

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby The Snide Sniper » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:58 pm UTC

j6m8 wrote:Would you feel okay with it being side-scroller-shaped instead of a circle, the extra trig is slowing down my starter implementation like crazy...

I'd think you would only need to use trig when drawing the planet; if it's 2D you could represent the position as the angle on the surface.
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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Mjb » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:55 am UTC

Old Bruce wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:Journey to Alpha Centauri which just displays a static pattern of dots on the screen for 4 years until one at the center of the screen enlarges into a circle and fills the screen, then a text message comes up "congratulating" you for making the trip and then telling you to go home...

Or at least that's my recollection - it's been a while since I read it, and I'm not sure where my copy currently is...

And that tallies with my memory much more accurately than what my memory remembered. Four years seems to be too short though... Book is long ago donated to somewhere.

Depends whether it was light-speed travel or realistic. Pratchett's version was 3000 years and appears to already have been implemented.

Kerbal Earth Program will not take nearly as long to produce, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:30 am UTC

I think Kerbal Earth was one of the mods, but Kerbal rockets are much weaker than what we would need since the earth is much larger (but less dense) so the gravity well is much greater than Kerbal even though they have the same surface gravity.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:24 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:I know exactly where my copy is (also Dim Ond Ti All Achub y Ddynoliaeth) and it is an accident of scheduling that means I'm not there this very night. I can likely look it up by tomorrow night, though.


Here we go:
pp34-5 ISBN 0-86074-144-3 wrote:Unwaith, roedd Wobler wedi ysgrifennu gêm gyfrifiadurol fel hon, a'i galw hi'n Taith i Alpha Centauri. Y cwbl oedd hi oedd sgrin a nifer o smotiau bach arni. Oherwydd, medda fo, ei bod hi'n digwydd mewn amser real, rhywbeth nad oedd neb wedi clwyed sôn amdano cyn dyfoodiad y cyfrifiaduron. Roedd o wedi gweld rhywbeth ar y teledu yn dweud y cymerai hi dair mil o flynyddoedd i gyrraedd Alpha Centauri. Felly ysgrifennodd ei gêm yn y fath fodd fel, pe bai rhywun yn gadael ei gyfrifiadur ymlaen am dair mil o flynyddoedd, câi ei wobrwyo gan smotyn bychan yn ymddangos yng nghanol y sgrin, a neges yn dweud, 'Croeso i Alpha Centauri. Rŵan cer adra.'


Spoiler:
pp 34-5 ISBN 0-552-13926-2 wrote:Wobbler had written an actual computer game like this once. It was called Journey to Alpha Centauri. It was a screen with some dots on it. Because, he said, it happened in real time, which no-one had ever heard of until computers. He'd seen on TV that it took three thousand years to get to Alpha Centauri. He had written it so that if anyone kept their computer on for three thousand years, they'd be rewarded by a little dot appearing in the middle of the screen, and then a message saying, 'Welcome to Alpha Centauri. Now go home.'


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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby rmsgrey » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:43 pm UTC

Now I want to know what it would take for a computer to remain powered and running for three thousand years.

Mains power is pretty reliable - rough order of magnitude is one significant blackout per decade - and brown-outs or blackouts of less than a second (the sort you might not notice, except that your white goods need their clocks reset) don't seem to happen that often either. Still, you'd want some sort of UPS - and reliability figures on that then need to be taken into account.

There's also the question of how long before you expect a significant failure of civilisation - 75 years ago, there was a world war going on, and smaller wars happen all the time. And then there's various possible natural disasters - if they're reasonably contained, things will be up and running again within a couple of days, but that's already pushing the capabilities of most UPSes. Acts of war or terrorism aimed at taking out infrastructure rather than targeting civilians could well leave mains power unreliable for weeks or months.

Less spectacular is the question of standard-drift. Here in the UK, mains voltage used to be 240 volts, is currently 230 volts, and is intended (unless Brexit interferes) to someday drop to 220 volts (to match the European power grid). How long will an old computer remain compatible with contemporary mains power?

Either way, a backup generator would seem to be indicated - though what sort is another question - will diesel (or diesel-compatible fluid fuels) continue to be available? Wood is renewable but inefficient. Solar and wind require efficient storage to make up for times when the sun isn't shining/wind isn't blowing.

And then there's the problem of maintenance - you'd probably need a custom design to allow entire circuit boards to be switched out while the system is running without causing a problem - which in turn probably means you'd need custom components manufactured - and either a large stockpile (and can you store electronic components for thousands of years and still have at least some of them work at the end?) or somewhere still capable of manufacturing compatible parts for most of the time-frame.

And then there's operating and maintenance instructions and technical specifications for parts - after a hundred generations, will the manuals still be comprehensible?

You can simplify some of the maintenance issues by having a robust auto-save in the program (imagine if Deep Thought crashed after 6.8 million years with no backups...), but you still have to ensure a supply of spare parts and power.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Jorpho » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:26 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Either way, a backup generator would seem to be indicated - though what sort is another question - will diesel (or diesel-compatible fluid fuels) continue to be available? Wood is renewable but inefficient. Solar and wind require efficient storage to make up for times when the sun isn't shining/wind isn't blowing.
You'd surely want to go with some sort of radioactive power source, like they use on the Voyager spacecraft.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby DavidSh » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:12 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:You'd surely want to go with some sort of radioactive power source, like they use on the Voyager spacecraft.

The RTGs NASA uses employ Plutonium-238, which has a half-life of about 88 years. If you want to be generating a reasonable amount of power after a couple of thousand years, you'd need to be putting off an unreasonable amount of heat at start-up. Furthermore, NASA's experience is that the thermocouples degrade with time.
This is certainly feasible for decades, might be feasible for a few centuries if you overdesign it, but when you get to thousands of years you need something else.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:46 pm UTC

Make a reactor the automatically slowly retracts it’s control rods over thousands of years? So they dampen the reaction in the early days and then get out of the way as the fuel diminishes and needs a boost.
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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby squareroot » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:25 pm UTC

I'd say the bigger question is, is hibernation allowed?

For large-scale simulations that take months+, this is a somewhat popular option. You need to change out your hardware (or clean your fans, or whatever)? Just hibernate, now all your state is saved to disk. Make your changes, turn it back on, you're right back where you left off.

Furthermore, many video games use a real-time clock for time updates. (And many don't.) That is, there are two ways to advance a simulation. They are roughly

Code: Select all

Every 30th of a second:
   Move time forward by 1/30th of a second.

Code: Select all

Every time a new frame is drawn:
   Check how much time happened since the last frame.
   Move time forward by that amount.


The former is obviously preferable for simulations where integrity of the data is important. The latter is more popular when the emphasis is on 'smooth' simulation speeds -- although very large timesteps can lead to issues when the dynamics are very nonlinear. (For instance: you have a bunch of cockroaches crawling around on the floor of a room. Now time jumps forward by a second. Cockroaches near an edge will 'jump' through the wall into the void beyond, where they die or crawl forever or just crash the simulation.)

So if you made a video game about going to Alpha Centauri, and you used the second model, then the problem isn't so bad. Start the game up, hibernate, and wake it back up after 3000 years. This does mean that you need to keep the real-time clock going, though. How hard is that?

We want to know how much power draw we're looking at, over these 3000 years. A typical consumer computer has a CMOS battery of shape CR2032, the "button cell" batteries. These don't have a standardized energy capacity, but the first three figures I found online (210, 220, 235) suggest a typical charge is 220mAh. Voltages seem to be standardized at 3V. A CMOS battery is also expected to last about 4 years, typically. This means a power draw from the motherboard of 220mAh * 3V / 4 years of 15.7µW.

Okay, what do we have that lasts on the order of 3000 years? We need this for the "Wake me up" part anyway. Typical radioactive sources for power are very fast (like 88 years, mentioned above) because power output is a priority. But carbon-14 has a half life of about 6000 years, which is perfect for us. When the radioactive output drops by about 30%, trigger turning the computer back on. (It might also be the case that your computer has a "wake up at this time" feature automatically, but I'm hedging against that since I don't know if that affects turned-off power draw.)

What about using carbon-14 for power, then? It's darned slow, but we also don't need much power. A quick google brings me https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/ ... s-2016-12/

In that article, they discuss some scientists that created batteries out of carbon-14 by trapping the carbon in diamonds. They say that 1g of carbon-14 is enough to build a battery of 175µW -- more than enough for our purposes, perfect!

At this point the biggest remaining issues are physical damage to the circuitry, or curious humans down the line. Besides a very sturdy computer case, physical damage would mean things like corrosion, small life forms trying to digest the computer (newly evolved bacteria have been observed digesting plastic. Who know's what will be around in 3000 years?), or large shaking from earthquakes. You'd want to make sure that there aren't any metals that will oxidize, like at all. All capacitors should be dry: wet capacitors will slowly evaporate over time. Unless you decide to give your computer extreeemely good radiation shielding, hard drive and solid state drives will not last. For long term archivism, it's actually very hard to beat paper, but that's not very ideal for high-capacity digital data storage. The types of memory they use for deep-space missions, which have to withstand large electrostatic discharge from gamma rays, are likely the way to go. In terms of protection from shaking and microbes, pick a metal that's strong (stainless steel?) and coat it in gold to protect it from corrosion a lot more. Seal the container completely, and to handle shaking perhaps put a thermodynamically stable foam inside. Finally, humans (or mining robots): likely one of the hardest cases to handle. One option is to just make the whole system very difficult to access -- if you can get Elon Musk to throw into space for you, especially on escape velocity from our Solar System, it's probably safe for 3000 years. Even with interstellar flight in the future, navigating to find such a small piece of metal is probably not worth it. If you want to keep it here on Earth, you'd want a bunch of symbology explaining concretely and abstractly why they shouldn't interfere. You'll need, of course, to lie, because from their perspective there's probably no reason not to dive in. The DoE has done extensive cultural research to try to understand how to warn future generations away: https://hyperallergic.com/312318/a-nucl ... 000-years/

.. but in this case, there's an extra layer to that problem. That symbology is primarily directed at deterring people who don't know about nuclear waste, away from it. If the civilization 3000 years from now is perfectly equipped with radiation-shielding gear or robots, they might happily wander in. You would need to create a signal that screams "stay away from here!" across a variety of languages, but doesn't say "We're trying to scream 'stay away from here!' because we were worried civilization would collapse and you would venture into this pit of nuclear waste". You need something sufficiently ambiguous that they won't go in no matter what, but not sufficiently interesting that they'll go looking.
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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby somitomi » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:58 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Less spectacular is the question of standard-drift. Here in the UK, mains voltage used to be 240 volts, is currently 230 volts, and is intended (unless Brexit interferes) to someday drop to 220 volts (to match the European power grid). How long will an old computer remain compatible with contemporary mains power?

That's weird, the power grid where I live moved from 220V up to 230V in odd steps between 1194 and 2008 to line up with the rest of Europe. If I recall correctly, 230V was picked so that 240V appliances wouldn't become noticeably underpowered even though most European countries were on 220V at the time. Funnily enough, the sources I quickly checked don't agree with each other or the diagram I have saved regarding how much this voltage is allowed to deviate from the nominal value.
rmsgrey wrote:Either way, a backup generator would seem to be indicated - though what sort is another question - will diesel (or diesel-compatible fluid fuels) continue to be available? Wood is renewable but inefficient. Solar and wind require efficient storage to make up for times when the sun isn't shining/wind isn't blowing.

And then there's the problem of maintenance - you'd probably need a custom design to allow entire circuit boards to be switched out while the system is running without causing a problem - which in turn probably means you'd need custom components manufactured - and either a large stockpile (and can you store electronic components for thousands of years and still have at least some of them work at the end?) or somewhere still capable of manufacturing compatible parts for most of the time-frame.

As far as I know, hot-swappable components are widely used in servers and other applications where downtime is undesirable. So you can probably get away with using rather expensive professional equipment instead of ludicrously expensivve custom hardware.
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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Pfhorrest » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:06 am UTC

You had electricity there in 1194? Wow, really ahead of the times.
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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Soupspoon » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:11 am UTC

squareroot wrote:.. but in this case, there's an extra layer to that problem. That symbology is primarily directed at deterring people who don't know about nuclear waste, away from it. If the civilization 3000 years from now is perfectly equipped with radiation-shielding gear or robots, they might happily wander in. You would need to create a signal that screams "stay away from here!" across a variety of languages, but doesn't say "We're trying to scream 'stay away from here!' because we were worried civilization would collapse and you would venture into this pit of nuclear waste". You need something sufficiently ambiguous that they won't go in no matter what, but not sufficiently interesting that they'll go looking.

Given people get curious about hidden things, go the other way. Build a huge stone-block repository, as obvious as you can make it. Make it stable so sloped walls, and decide perhaps whether you want to put it somewhere it won't get overgrown by plants (or maybe where it'll definitely be overgrown by plants?). Put up pictograms that threaten your vague but vaguely decipherable threats of bad things to all those that go into your repository. People will still do so, looking for treasures and things, so put treasures and things in there. Put some really weird things in there, to satisfy the curiosity of the future intellectuals, when raw treasure is no longer the main attraction. But keep it tantalising by incorporating layers of hidden chambers and corridors in your pile of stone.

Then plonk your actual device in a hole in the ground well away from there, and well away from any other interesting feature. Siberia, maybe?

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Old Bruce » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:43 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:You had electricity there in 1194? Wow, really ahead of the times.

And he is using the Jewish calendar.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby somitomi » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:08 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:You had electricity there in 1194? Wow, really ahead of the times.

We also invented typos soon after that :wink:
Old Bruce wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:You had electricity there in 1194? Wow, really ahead of the times.

And he is using the Jewish calendar.

:?:
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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Heimhenge » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:50 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
squareroot wrote:.. but in this case, there's an extra layer to that problem. That symbology is primarily directed at deterring people who don't know about nuclear waste, away from it. If the civilization 3000 years from now is perfectly equipped with radiation-shielding gear or robots, they might happily wander in. You would need to create a signal that screams "stay away from here!" across a variety of languages, but doesn't say "We're trying to scream 'stay away from here!' because we were worried civilization would collapse and you would venture into this pit of nuclear waste". You need something sufficiently ambiguous that they won't go in no matter what, but not sufficiently interesting that they'll go looking.

Given people get curious about hidden things, go the other way. Build a huge stone-block repository, as obvious as you can make it. Make it stable so sloped walls, and decide perhaps whether you want to put it somewhere it won't get overgrown by plants (or maybe where it'll definitely be overgrown by plants?). Put up pictograms that threaten your vague but vaguely decipherable threats of bad things to all those that go into your repository. People will still do so, looking for treasures and things, so put treasures and things in there. Put some really weird things in there, to satisfy the curiosity of the future intellectuals, when raw treasure is no longer the main attraction. But keep it tantalising by incorporating layers of hidden chambers and corridors in your pile of stone.

Then plonk your actual device in a hole in the ground well away from there, and well away from any other interesting feature. Siberia, maybe?


The tougher problem would be the "pictograms". How could we be sure the symbols used would be recognized for what they are that far in the future? DOE spent considerable effort trying to answer that question for the now-defunct Yucca Mountain waste repository in Nevada. Interesting related story here: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... oxic-waste

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Truffant » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:53 am UTC

Countless hours were spent on dwarf fortress fine-tuning the world generation settings so that you had the desired geological formations (magnetite, hematite for iron) next to coal deposits together with a nice brook in as few tiles as possible. Bonus points if you could fit in a Volcano (for lava).

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby FOARP » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:41 am UTC

Wow, Randall's on a bit of geology kick of late, right?

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:12 am UTC

Geology rocks, man!

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Hafting » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:32 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:And then there's the problem of maintenance - you'd probably need a custom design to allow entire circuit boards to be switched out while the system is running without causing a problem


There are mainframe components designed that way, so you won't need custom components. Any single component can be replaced without disrupting operations - performance may be lower while some components are down, of course.

There is this story about a mainframe that was moved to a new location while in operation. They moved it in bits and pieces - each part was off while in transit. Now and then a compute node offlined at the first location, and came online at the new location. Then half of the RAID, with the second half following after resynchronizing via the network. At all times, enough of the computer was running and responding to whatever they used it for.

You can do something similar with vmware and PC hardware these days.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Old Bruce » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:05 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:You had electricity there in 1194? Wow, really ahead of the times.

We also invented typos soon after that :wink:
Old Bruce wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:You had electricity there in 1194? Wow, really ahead of the times.

And he is using the Jewish calendar.

:?:

AM 5779 began at sunset on 9 September 2018 and will end at sunset on 29 September 2019. wikipedia 'Jewish Calendar'
5779 - 1194 = 4585 years ago mains electricity was well established.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:18 pm UTC

But it jumped gaps like crazy. Hence the arc of the covenant!

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby j6m8 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:44 pm UTC

who wants to write bad fluid dynamics with me

https://github.com/j6k4m8/tectonics

Image

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:56 pm UTC

squareroot wrote:.. but in this case, there's an extra layer to that problem. That symbology is primarily directed at deterring people who don't know about nuclear waste, away from it. If the civilization 3000 years from now is perfectly equipped with radiation-shielding gear or robots, they might happily wander in. You would need to create a signal that screams "stay away from here!" across a variety of languages, but doesn't say "We're trying to scream 'stay away from here!' because we were worried civilization would collapse and you would venture into this pit of nuclear waste". You need something sufficiently ambiguous that they won't go in no matter what, but not sufficiently interesting that they'll go looking.


I feel relatively confident that literally any sign we could detect from 3,000 years+ ago would not warn us away from interesting archeological finds. Cursed? Instant death promised? Oh, shit yeah, lets check that out.

Lack of comprehension's not the issue here.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby SuicideJunkie » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:11 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:I feel relatively confident that literally any sign we could detect from 3,000 years+ ago would not warn us away from interesting archeological finds. Cursed? Instant death promised? Oh, shit yeah, lets check that out.

Lack of comprehension's not the issue here.

What about a sign that says "If you can stand here for a week without dying, then what's behind this door might not kill you."?
It obviously wouldn't keep out everybody that wants loot, but I feel optimistic that it would at least discourage organized teams from going in unprepared.

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Re: 2061: "Tectonics Game"

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:15 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure that would dissuade roughly zero archeologists, looters, or anyone else. Certainly nobody is actually going to stand there for a week just because an old sign told them to.


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