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2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:44 pm UTC
by jpers36
Image

Title text: Even the blind—those who are anxious to hear, but are not able to see—will be taken care of. Immense megaphones have been constructed and will be in use at The Tribune office and in the Coliseum. The one at the Coliseum will be operated by a gentleman who draws $60 a week from Barnum & Bailey's circus for the use of his voice.

Having a hard time believing this one. I'm sure someone will pull up the Tribune pages.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:13 pm UTC
by orthogon
Chicago Tribune wrote:Blue to indicate [Republican] McKinley's election, red to indicate [Democrat] Bryan's election

At least they got the colours the right way round back then.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:24 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
I don't believe him. That hat looks more like an 1820s popular model, or maybe an early 20thC revival. (Spent a fair few minutes Googling "Gentlemen's hats of the 1890s", and variations. Not what I expected to be doing today, but it seemed like a good idea.)

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:28 pm UTC
by badaza
jpers36 wrote:Having a hard time believing this one. I'm sure someone will pull up the Tribune pages.


I was going to... but you have to pay for content that is in the public domain. :evil:

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:22 pm UTC
by sonar1313
So 1896 was, like, degrees of magnitude less annoying than your average New Year's Eve? Yeah, I'll take the occasional fireworks over the breathless media coverage designed to inflame passions that in turn increase ratings. I may be able to turn off the TV, but I can't necessarily turn off all the people whose ANGRY HAWT TAYX are partly based on what they see there.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:29 pm UTC
by FOARP
badaza wrote:
jpers36 wrote:Having a hard time believing this one. I'm sure someone will pull up the Tribune pages.


I was going to... but you have to pay for content that is in the public domain. :evil:


Wait until you find out that even the people who make those documents available online have to pay for hosting them. I know, right?

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:48 pm UTC
by DanD
FOARP wrote:
badaza wrote:
jpers36 wrote:Having a hard time believing this one. I'm sure someone will pull up the Tribune pages.


I was going to... but you have to pay for content that is in the public domain. :evil:


Wait until you find out that even the people who make those documents available online have to pay for hosting them. I know, right?


Not to mention amortizing the cost of transferring them to (likely) microfilm first, and then more recently digitizing and reorganizing that microfilm into online content.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:52 pm UTC
by Keyman
I'm going to bed early. Last time I stayed up, it didn't turn out so well. And of course, what I do *does too* make a difference.

What I'm really looking forward to is to have all those frickin' negative campaign ads off the air!!

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:38 pm UTC
by Old Bruce
DanD wrote:
FOARP wrote:
badaza wrote:
jpers36 wrote:Having a hard time believing this one. I'm sure someone will pull up the Tribune pages.


I was going to... but you have to pay for content that is in the public domain. :evil:


Wait until you find out that even the people who make those documents available online have to pay for hosting them. I know, right?


Not to mention amortizing the cost of transferring them to (likely) microfilm first, and then more recently digitizing and reorganizing that microfilm into online content.

And I had to pay for my copy of The Illiad which wasn't even in the original language. Any movie based on a Shakespeare play should be free too. And patents on cars are probably finished by now... okay I know I got a little carried away, three deep breaths.
Sorry about that, I won't bother posting this, oops.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:03 pm UTC
by badaza
But you can get the Iliad for free on the Gutenberg project.

And it's ridiculous that one of the proponents for longer and longer copyright periods is Disney, whose iconic princess movies are mostly based on public domain stories and legends.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:13 pm UTC
by Archgeek
Old Bruce wrote:
DanD wrote:
FOARP wrote:
badaza wrote:
jpers36 wrote:Having a hard time believing this one. I'm sure someone will pull up the Tribune pages.


I was going to... but you have to pay for content that is in the public domain. :evil:


Wait until you find out that even the people who make those documents available online have to pay for hosting them. I know, right?


Not to mention amortizing the cost of transferring them to (likely) microfilm first, and then more recently digitizing and reorganizing that microfilm into online content.

And I had to pay for my copy of The Illiad which wasn't even in the original language. Any movie based on a Shakespeare play should be free too. And patents on cars are probably finished by now... okay I know I got a little carried away, three deep breaths.
Sorry about that, I won't bother posting this, oops.

Goodness blades, such needless sarcasm. Yes indeed, paywalls suck, but I'm guessing it's a low one, just to cover hosting and maintenance. If it is indeed public domain, anyone feeling sufficiently charitable could hack up the dosh, and mirror the content free on their own hosting.

Y'know, most car patents are toast by now, as those only last 15 years (just like copyright used to, before the Age of The Mouse began). You can freely design, build and sell your own all you like, as long it can pass all the safety, road-legality, and emissions bars (a few certifications and friends required to be road-legal, some more to be legally sold) all without any licensure fees, as long as you don't use any newer tech that's still under someone's patent (which you would have to license).

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:24 pm UTC
by Flumble
DanD wrote:
FOARP wrote:
badaza wrote:
jpers36 wrote:Having a hard time believing this one. I'm sure someone will pull up the Tribune pages.


I was going to... but you have to pay for content that is in the public domain. :evil:


Wait until you find out that even the people who make those documents available online have to pay for hosting them. I know, right?


Not to mention amortizing the cost of transferring them to (likely) microfilm first, and then more recently digitizing and reorganizing that microfilm into online content.

And this hasn't been done through public funding? A project Gutenburg or the likes? Ah, so a lot of (public? how do libaries work in the US and A?) libraries have those old articles, but only offer them to people with a library card. (Sensible on their side because everything in the library requires a library card.) And while archive.org has some publications, none are from 1896.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:31 pm UTC
by DanD
Flumble wrote:
DanD wrote:Not to mention amortizing the cost of transferring them to (likely) microfilm first, and then more recently digitizing and reorganizing that microfilm into online content.

And this hasn't been done through public funding? A project Gutenburg or the likes? Ah, so a lot of (public? how do libaries work in the US and A?) libraries have those old articles, but only offer them to people with a library card. (Sensible on their side because everything in the library requires a library card.) And while archive.org has some publications, none are from 1896.


Public libraries are government funded, but not well. They typically have microfilm of their local paper as an ongoing project, but relatively few have gotten around to digitizing. But the newspapers themselves, no they're generally on their own.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:59 pm UTC
by badaza
Archgeek wrote:Goodness blades, such needless sarcasm. Yes indeed, paywalls suck, but I'm guessing it's a low one, just to cover hosting and maintenance. If it is indeed public domain, anyone feeling sufficiently charitable could hack up the dosh, and mirror the content free on their own hosting.


It's 8 USD/month for access to archives from 1849-present day, or 30 USD/6 months. Getting access to public domain only for a nominal fee (say, 15 USD/6 months or 3 USD/month) is not an option.

What needle?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:20 pm UTC
by cellocgw
I rarely watch E.N. video coverage. What is this needle thing they're referring to?

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:38 pm UTC
by keithl
I tend to vote for minor parties on the ballot. I often don't see those tabulations for a month.

But then, if elections could fundamentally change the world (rather than assign blame and swap labels for the plunge into the abyss), they wouldn't let people like me vote anyway.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:43 pm UTC
by mathmannix
How does Randall find all these obscure newspapers from 100+ years ago that he mentions periodically (ha ha?) in the comic? I mean, it's one thing to look up a specific newspaper for a specific day, but how to know which newspaper and which day? Even if you have a subscription to newspapers.com, which doesn't have that great a search engine...

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:52 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
sonar1313 wrote:So 1896 was, like, degrees of magnitude less annoying than your average New Year's Eve? Yeah, I'll take the occasional fireworks over the breathless media coverage designed to inflame passions that in turn increase ratings. I may be able to turn off the TV, but I can't necessarily turn off all the people whose ANGRY HAWT TAYX are partly based on what they see there.

For what it's worth, over here in the UK, we're currently seeing victories for loads of candidates. From the red party, the green party, the white party, the white party that tends to explode into loads of little white parties with a big bang or fizzes or whistles or…

(And the votes have been counted intensively over the most of last week, many on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and there may be a few counts still to be announced tomorrow night or later!)

cellocgw wrote:I rarely watch E.N. video coverage. What is this needle thing they're referring to?

Presumably the colonial cousin of our Swingomter

mathmannix wrote:How does Randall find all these obscure newspapers from 100+ years ago that he mentions periodically (ha ha?) in the comic? I mean, it's one thing to look up a specific newspaper for a specific day, but how to know which newspaper and which day? Even if you have a subscription to newspapers.com, which doesn't have that great a search engine...
A variation on the Anthropic Principle. Randall stumbles upon any number of obscure things (that may be hard to tie down if you were actively looking for precisely these details) and some of them inspire him to produce something in reference. If he hadn't seen this (or hadn't found it worthy to pass on), we wouldn't be asking about this. Instead we'd be asking how another obscure electioneering factoid had been discovered when he was thinking of possibly doing something about historic elections in today's comic.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:04 pm UTC
by mathmannix
Soupspoon wrote:
sonar1313 wrote:So 1896 was, like, degrees of magnitude less annoying than your average New Year's Eve? Yeah, I'll take the occasional fireworks over the breathless media coverage designed to inflame passions that in turn increase ratings. I may be able to turn off the TV, but I can't necessarily turn off all the people whose ANGRY HAWT TAYX are partly based on what they see there.

For what it's worth, over here in the UK, we're currently seeing victories for loads of candidates. From the red party, the green party, the white party, the white party that tends to explode into loads of little white parties with a big bang or fizzes or whistles or…

(And the votes have been counted intensively over the most of last week, many on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and there may be a few counts still to be announced tomorrow night or later!)


... so this is really a thing, that y'all celebrate explosions not going off that one time by making lots of explosions go off?

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:10 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
We aren't backwards about it. We also burn effigies of broadband providers

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:11 pm UTC
by mathmannix
Soupspoon wrote:
mathmannix wrote:How does Randall find all these obscure newspapers from 100+ years ago that he mentions periodically (ha ha?) in the comic? I mean, it's one thing to look up a specific newspaper for a specific day, but how to know which newspaper and which day? Even if you have a subscription to newspapers.com, which doesn't have that great a search engine...
A variation on the Anthropic Principle. Randall stumbles upon any number of obscure things (that may be hard to tie down if you were actively looking for precisely these details) and some of them inspire him to produce something in reference. If he hadn't seen this (or hadn't found it worthy to pass on), we wouldn't be asking about this. Instead we'd be asking how another obscure electioneering factoid had been discovered when he was thinking of possibly doing something about historic elections in today's comic.

OK, so you're saying he presumably constantly reads old newspapers in the hopes that he'll occasionally find something worth comicking?

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:18 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
Not at all. All we know for certain is that he at least once¹ looked at old papers, and made a note of this while doing so

http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/joke/3.htm#black

¹ In the lead-up to this comic. One might be safely able to assume a multiple of other times happened in the lead-up to other similarly referential comics, but given the length of time this particular information has been available it could have all been 'researched' in a single session and held onto for a suitable inspiration/occasion to strike.

(Off-topic: I'm getting awful posting-lag, like I did the other day before I started getting error 500 and 504s from the forum. Anyone else? Not worth discussing here, but you can quote this (if you are getting it too!) if you're seeing it too and want to report it in the Site Issues area.)

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:07 pm UTC
by Symbiote
jpers36 wrote:Having a hard time believing this one. I'm sure someone will pull up the Tribune pages.


So I wondered if I could find the page.

It's this one: https://chicagotribune.newspapers.com/image/349884040 — the search interface on Newspapers.com is fairly good.

badaza wrote:It's 8 USD/month for access to archives from 1849-present day, or 30 USD/6 months. Getting access to public domain only for a nominal fee (say, 15 USD/6 months or 3 USD/month) is not an option.


There's the other option, which is to look at the layout of the page above, open that "Debugging" menu on the web browser for the first time, and... well, one thing leads to another.

But the point about costs is valid. Does anyone, or anyone's parent, have an ancestry.com account? I think it might be valid for access to newspapers.com.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:25 pm UTC
by Symbiote
Oh, this gets better. The rest of the front page of the 30 October issue includes:

"MUST CARRY SMALL SATCHELS: New Rule Limiting Amount of Baggage in Wagner Cars.
New York Oct 29. In the eyes of the travelling man the crime of '73 has been outdone by the crime of the Wagner Palace Car company in limiting the amount of baggage which may be carried in its sleeping cars to a very small amount. There were no good stories told in Wagner palace cars tonight, principally because the drummers had decided to ride on rival ones. When they arrived at the Grand Central Depot today they found a new regulation restricting them to one small hand satchel."

"ALL HAIL THE FIGHTING WOMAN: Testimonial Tendered Mrs Felton for Thrashing Unwelcome Lover.
New York, Oct 29. "We, your neighbours, congratulate you over your victory and triumph over the Burgomeister of Locust street, and we assure you of our high regard because you are a woman who knows how to take care of yourself". This was the testimonial given by admiring friends today to a Brooklyn new woman who thrashed an unwelcome lover who persisted in annoying her ... by the admission she weighs 220 pounds, while ... whom she thrashed, only weighs about 110 and is taller at that."

(Election results.") "Four points of vantage have been selected for the dissemination of the results as they come from the local centre of interest and from all over the country. There are those who wish to be near the centre of action, and for their benefit two stereopticons will flash the returns from THE TRIBUNE office on Dearborn and Madison streets on the Hartford and Union Trust Company Buildings"

The only image on the front page is a cartoon, "How the Political Campaign of the Future will be Managed"

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:47 pm UTC
by Archgeek
Soupspoon wrote:We aren't backwards about it. We also burn effigies of broadband providers

That is glorious. We in the states should blatantly start doing that to Comcast, Cox, and friends. A golden poo is one thing, but seeing your company vans burn in effigy? THAT sends a message.
Soupspoon wrote:(Off-topic: I'm getting awful posting-lag, like I did the other day before I started getting error 500 and 504s from the forum. Anyone else? Not worth discussing here, but you can quote this (if you are getting it too!) if you're seeing it too and want to report it in the Site Issues area.)

Yup~! It's pretty bad, extending at least as far as the sub-forum page. "Individual XKCD Comic Threads" has been slow enough that I've had some elements fail to load due to timeouts just refreshing the thing.

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:51 pm UTC
by jgh
Symbiote wrote:Oh, this gets better. The rest of the front page of the 30 October issue includes:
"MUST CARRY SMALL SATCHELS: New Rule Limiting Amount of Baggage in Wagner Cars.
New York Oct 29. In the eyes of the travelling man the crime of '73 has been outdone by the crime of the Wagner Palace Car company in limiting the amount of baggage which may be carried in its sleeping cars to a very small amount. There were no good stories told in Wagner palace cars tonight, principally because the drummers had decided to ride on rival ones. When they arrived at the Grand Central Depot today they found a new regulation restricting them to one small hand satchel."

something something RyanAir something darkside something

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:03 am UTC
by sonar1313
mathmannix wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:
sonar1313 wrote:So 1896 was, like, degrees of magnitude less annoying than your average New Year's Eve? Yeah, I'll take the occasional fireworks over the breathless media coverage designed to inflame passions that in turn increase ratings. I may be able to turn off the TV, but I can't necessarily turn off all the people whose ANGRY HAWT TAYX are partly based on what they see there.

For what it's worth, over here in the UK, we're currently seeing victories for loads of candidates. From the red party, the green party, the white party, the white party that tends to explode into loads of little white parties with a big bang or fizzes or whistles or…

(And the votes have been counted intensively over the most of last week, many on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and there may be a few counts still to be announced tomorrow night or later!)


... so this is really a thing, that y'all celebrate explosions not going off that one time by making lots of explosions go off?

I once knew a fellow from Ottery St. Mary. Nobody does crazy quite like those folks, but there's a certain sanity to the madness. If you absolutely must have a holiday celebrating an audacious failed assassination plot, you might as well just carry around flaming tar barrels on your heads. Heck, why wouldn't you?

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:44 pm UTC
by rmsgrey
badaza wrote:And it's ridiculous that one of the proponents for longer and longer copyright periods is Disney, whose iconic princess movies are mostly based on public domain stories and legends.


One of the classic examples is the Jungle Book - which was out of copyright (in the US) less than a year when Disney released their animated movie version - here in Kipling's native UK, the book was still in copyright for another three decades or so after Disney's version saw the silver screen. Not a Disney princess, admittedly, but still a pretty blatant IP grab on their part...

Re: 2068: "Election Night"

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:46 am UTC
by Old Bruce
rmsgrey wrote:
badaza wrote:And it's ridiculous that one of the proponents for longer and longer copyright periods is Disney, whose iconic princess movies are mostly based on public domain stories and legends.


One of the classic examples is the Jungle Book - which was out of copyright (in the US) less than a year when Disney released their animated movie version - here in Kipling's native UK, the book was still in copyright for another three decades or so after Disney's version saw the silver screen. Not a Disney princess, admittedly, but still a pretty blatant IP grab on their part...

Stravinsky and Disney makes for good reading regarding copyright.