2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:59 pm UTC

Surely 'regular' coffee is that which is dosed with laxatives. Or excited caesium atoms (which may or may not provoke analogous effects)…

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby orthogon » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:56 pm UTC

I've meant to point out for a while that the use of the word beverage in the US seems weird to a Brit. For us, it's just a posh word for drink, generally employed only for the sake of sesquipedalian loquaciousness, usually for comic effect. Its veneer of formal Latinate respectability also leads to its use as a euphemism, so that more often than not it refers to alcohol. In this case it's often shortened to "bevvy". Is this the opposite of US usage, where I get the impression that a "beverage" is never alcoholic?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:49 pm UTC

"Beverage" is just a fancy word for "drink" in US English too, and "alcoholic beverage" makes perfect sense. In some contexts, like at a bar, the alcohol might even be implied in just "beverage" simpliciter.
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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby Reka » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:00 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:I've meant to point out for a while that the use of the word beverage in the US seems weird to a Brit. For us, it's just a posh word for drink, generally employed only for the sake of sesquipedalian loquaciousness, usually for comic effect. Its veneer of formal Latinate respectability also leads to its use as a euphemism, so that more often than not it refers to alcohol. In this case it's often shortened to "bevvy". Is this the opposite of US usage, where I get the impression that a "beverage" is never alcoholic?

No, US usage is exactly the same as what you describe, except we don't use "bevvy".

(Anecdata, but US usage is anti-abbreviation even in other languages. My mother, who has lived in the US for 50 years at this point, keeps being horrified at the abbreviated/cutesy language of today's youth... in Hungary.)

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:31 pm UTC

Counterpoint: "u ppl"

Apparently American youth are only too lazy to type, not to speak aloud?
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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby Archgeek » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:52 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Counterpoint: "u ppl"

Apparently American youth are only too lazy to type, not to speak aloud?

Not just the youth, but a veritable vortex of creatures I used to call adults when I was younger. It disturbs me intensely that so many of the adults have both taken to rejecting science and reason in favour of entrenched views and have somehow become terrible at typing. I fear the two effects may've been related.
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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby orthogon » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:33 pm UTC

Hmm - thanks for the replies. I still feel there's a difference in usage, because I see beverage used in the US in contexts that it wouldn't in the UK, but I clearly haven't quite put my finger on what the difference is. Perhaps it's kind of formal in the US, so can be used humourously in informal contexts but can also be used straight in semi-formal contexts (e.g. on a menu or spoken by a waiter in a diner), whereas the UK it's pompously formal, so can only be used in jest or in academic or technical contexts. It would look daft on a menu in a midrange restaurant, and I can't imagine a British version of Randall using it in a comic title. Maybe one of my compatriots can help me out here?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby Old Bruce » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:47 pm UTC

Archgeek wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Counterpoint: "u ppl"

Apparently American youth are only too lazy to type, not to speak aloud?

Not just the youth, but a veritable vortex of creatures I used to call adults when I was younger. It disturbs me intensely that so many of the adults have both taken to rejecting science and reason in favour of entrenched views and have somehow become terrible at typing. I fear the two effects may've been related.

So maybe fluoridation doesn't just sap your bodily fluids and essence like happened in Dr. Strangelove.

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:32 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Hmm - thanks for the replies. I still feel there's a difference in usage, because I see beverage used in the US in contexts that it wouldn't in the UK, but I clearly haven't quite put my finger on what the difference is. Perhaps it's kind of formal in the US, so can be used humourously in informal contexts but can also be used straight in semi-formal contexts (e.g. on a menu or spoken by a waiter in a diner), whereas the UK it's pompously formal, so can only be used in jest or in academic or technical contexts. It would look daft on a menu in a midrange restaurant, and I can't imagine a British version of Randall using it in a comic title. Maybe one of my compatriots can help me out here?

Yeah, in the US it's not ridiculously formal, it's just normal business-speak. Everyone would casually say "drinks", "carbonated drinks" if you were (as in this context) avoiding "soda" or "pop" or whatever people actually say in your area, "alcoholic drinks", and so on. Some business contexts might be that casual too. But it's not weird at all for a menu or advertisement or something like that to say "beverage", though it would be pretty uncommon to hear in casual speech.
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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby ucim » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:45 pm UTC

It might be relevant that "drink" can be a verb, but "beverage" can't. Yet.

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby Leovan » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:41 am UTC

You'd be amazed at what can be used as verbs. I was horrified to hear friends say "Let's go food" a few years ago to express "Let's go eat". I'm glad that never caught on.

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby ucim » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:25 am UTC

Leovan wrote:You'd be amazed at what can be used as verbs.
Anything can be verbbed. My point was that "to beverage" has not caught on, and is therefore less ambiguous than "drink" as a noun. Perhaps this plays into its usage.

Also, "lets go food" could be "let's go [get] food", or "let's go food[ing]". Were "food" to be verbbed, fooding would become a thing.

(Don't say this in the OTT though; they'd eat it up. :) )

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:51 am UTC

I have fooded with friends before, who called it that. It's tongue-in-cheek though, knowing how ridiculous it sounds.
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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby Flumble » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:58 am UTC

ucim wrote:Were "food" to be verbbed, fooding would become a thing.

That'd be neat. We've had it as a noun in dutch ("voeding") for ages, though "voedsel" ("foodage"?) and "eten" (nounified "eat") are more popular.

But if food can't be verbed, can "feed" be popularized in the intransitive/reflexive sense? It's noon here, so I'm about to feed anyway.

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby GlassHouses » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:25 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:But if food can't be verbed, can "feed" be popularized in the intransitive/reflexive sense? It's noon here, so I'm about to feed anyway.

"Feed" in that sense is an established usage, although usually used referring to animals. See https://www.dictionary.com/browse/feed sense #11.

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby ucim » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:38 pm UTC

GlassHouses wrote:"Feed" in that sense is an established usage, although usually used referring to animals. See https://www.dictionary.com/browse/feed sense #11.
Also, it (commonly) requires an object, whereas "to food" is self contained. I'd be in favor of using the new usage ("to food") rather than expanding an existing usage ("to feed"), just for its amusement value.

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Re: 2108: "Carbonated Beverage Language Map"

Postby orthogon » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:17 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
GlassHouses wrote:"Feed" in that sense is an established usage, although usually used referring to animals. See https://www.dictionary.com/browse/feed sense #11.
Also, it (commonly) requires an object, whereas "to food" is self contained. I'd be in favor of using the new usage ("to food") rather than expanding an existing usage ("to feed"), just for its amusement value.

Jose

Sense 11 is specifically the intransitive sense, though. For example "the dolphins are feeding". As GlassHouses says, it implies an animal activity, in the same way that you wouldn't normally say that a human couple was "mating".

Interestingly, the next sense is an example where feed has been nouned. So it's a two-way street.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.


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