0329: "Turing Test"

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ICDB
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0329: "Turing Test"

Postby ICDB » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:05 am UTC

http://www.xkcd.com/329
Image
Alt text:
Hit Turing right in the test-ees.

Edit: Aaah, sorry about the double thread (here). I even had two tabs open and was refreshing them to avoid this. Feel free to delete. Happy Monday!
Last edited by ICDB on Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:08 am UTC, edited 3 times in total.

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aerojad
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby aerojad » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:06 am UTC

re: alt-text

oooh.. *shudder*
Last edited by aerojad on Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:07 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Vitamin_A » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:07 am UTC

aren't we missing the link?

Oh, and I loved how this comic reminded me of a presentation on artificial intelligence I had to give to my theory of Knowledge class last year.
We had samples of poor Turing tests, to show flaws in AI, oh, such hilarirty.

And alt-text takes the cake.

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Quan » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:12 am UTC

I hope people realize that xkcd seems to be a true html purist and it's actually the title text, the alt text only reads "Turing Test".

Pretty clever this week, but only made my smile a bit :)
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby aerojad » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:15 am UTC

ICDB wrote:Edit: Aaah, sorry about the double thread (here). I even had two tabs open and was refreshing them to avoid this. Feel free to delete. Happy Monday!

Yours is the thread that got the replies. I think that makes you the winner :p
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Drake Zure » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:17 am UTC

heh. klever koncept. kwite komedik.

anyways, i like it, and i enjoy the fact that it's not something that goes over my head.

Oh, and I loved how this comic reminded me of a presentation on artificial intelligence I had to give to my theory of Knowledge class last year.
We had samples of poor Turing tests, to show flaws in AI, oh, such hilarirty.


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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby phlip » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:26 am UTC

ICDB wrote:Edit: Aaah, sorry about the double thread (here). I even had two tabs open and was refreshing them to avoid this. Feel free to delete. Happy Monday!

This thread was first, by 10 seconds.

I don't remember this, but my mother assures me that once, when I was a kid, I spent one bored afternoon trying to convince my younger sister that she was an alien. Apparently I almost managed it, too.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby nahtanoj999 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:40 am UTC

I was always concerned with the reverse Turing test - convincing someone that I was a computer.
I guess convincing a computer that I was another computer would be more mirror-imagey, but I do that all the time when I use telnet as my web browser.

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Geekthras » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:45 am UTC

Yeah I've had this idea before... Oh well. Alt text made it worth it :)
Wait. With a SPOON?!

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby phlip » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:49 am UTC

nahtanoj999 wrote:when I use telnet as my web browser.

netcat > telnet for that sort of thing.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby OfficiallyHaphazard » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:50 am UTC

I thought this was pretty funny, especially because I was just describing what the turing test was to my friend the other day :P
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Jack Saladin » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:50 am UTC

Spoiler:
* Z signed on
* A signed on

A: hello

Z: Hello?

A: wat r u

Z: Is this some kind of joke?

A: !help

Z: Yes I want help
Z: unless is this some kind of Japanese game show

A: r u jpnese?

Z: No
Z: Who are you?

A: Jason

Z: What's this about?

A: hahah
A: ok so you're imprisoned right

Z: Yes
Z: It's like a solitary confinement cell in prison or something
Z: I've got a mattress on the floor
Z: One massive metal door
Z: no windows
Z: electric light
Z: and this computer terminal
Z: jsut like a blank screen and a keyboard

A: heheh
A: go left

Z: look, my name is Andrew Donald Layton
Z: I come from Farnborough in the UK
Z: last night I went to bed in my bed at home
Z: this morning I woke up here
Z: i think

A: look at the door

Z: the doro's looked, I can't open it

A: do you have any tools or anything

Z: and there's a toilet i nthe corner

A: in your pockets

Z: there's nthhing in my pockets

A: look at the door

Z: I already looked at the door
Z: look, please check the news or something
Z: are you american?

A: ya

Z: whats your full name? where do you live?

A: im not telling you

Z: look, go to a phone and dial
Z: i don't know the area code fo the UK
Z: but dial that and then 020 7946 0781

A: thats an international call

Z: i'll pay you back, I don't care! just let my wife know where I am

A: where are you?

Z: i don't know where i am

A: ...
A: nah no answer

Z: you sure you dialled it rigt?

A: yah

Z: i don't get this

A: yah, pretty lousy ARG huh
A: mauybe not fully set up yet

Z: whats an ARG?

A: alternate reality game

Z: whats an alternate reality game?

A: it's an online game
A: where you get given phone numbres and information about real life
A: and faxes and stuff
A: you get secret information
A: usually a whole bunch of you can work together to figure it all out
A: you ever play Halo 2

Z: no

A: terhre was ine for that
A: *one
A: ilovebees

Z: you think this is ag ame?

A: ya I think
A: dude you are really smart
A: like fake spelling errors and everything

Z: where did you find out how to contact me

A: there was a website
A: about chatbots
A: it said yu were a chatbot

Z: listen to me carefully
Z: I am a REAL HUMAN BEING and I have ACTUALLY been abducted
Z: I am BEING HELD PRISONER
Z: THIS IS NOT A GAME
Z: PLEASE HELP ME

A: go left

Z: I DON'T KNOW WHERE I AM

* A signed off


* B signed on

B: okay what can you do?

Z: my name is Andrew Layton, I am being held prisoner in front of this computer
Z: I need you to help find me and help me escape
Z: I think I'm probably somewhere in the UK
Z: Are you in America?

B: sure

Z: please dial 011 44 20 7946 0781 and ask for Rebecca Layton
Z: tell her what's happened, tell her to call the police if she hasn't already

B: whatever
B: tell me a joke

Z: did you get this screen name from a website?

B: sure

Z: look, that website is a fraud
Z: it's telling you I'm a chatbot but I'm not
Z: I'm a real human being

B: ...

Z: fine
Z: so two oranges go into a bar
Z: one of them turns to the other
Z: "well... you're round"

B: ...that sucked

Z: so?
Z: robots can only tell good jokes?
Z: guy walks into a bar
Z: ouch
Z: it was a gay bar

B: haha

Z: do you believe me?

B: no

Z: please can you help me get out of here? I've been here like a day and a half
Z: I think
Z: I can't tell, there are no timestamsp on these messages
Z: no windows
Z: I just get water dispensed from the wall every like hour or smoething
Z: and food through a slot

B: can you send a picture

Z: no

B: what's it like

Z: I'm going crazy
Z: I have a wife and kids
Z: please help me

B: you suck

* B signed off


* C signed on

C: hello

Z: i think I'm going mad
Z: have you spoken to me before

C: no

Z: well I don't know that
Z: it just occurred ot me to wonder
Z: I don't even know that YOU are human

C: lol what

Z: all these people I've spoken to
Z: been in here lke two three four days
Z: and I ask them to help
Z: and some try aond some don't but they never get anywhere
Z: still stuck here
Z: nobody comes back more than once
Z: I say "call this number! go to my house! knock on my door!"
Z: like I even want to give out personal information to randoms
Z: i don't know whether they do it or what they even find

C: I'm human

Z: prove it

C: ask me anything

Z: what's your name?

C: alison

Z: where do you live? favourite colour? earliest childhood memory?

C: I live in Akron, OH
C: green
C: not saying

Z: look, see that?
Z: every time I ask for remotely personal info
Z: I just get turned down
Z: you could just be a bot programmed to answer simple questions and deflect complicated ones
Z: I'm bashing my head against the wall
Z: informationally speaking

C: u r just a bot

Z: i don't even KNOW if I can prove I'm a huma nto you
Z: every time I get close they just leave
Z: like I've been fairly lucid now
Z: and you're probably starting to suspect

C: ur pretty convincing

Z: I should know
Z: but any second now...
Z: you're gonna

* C signed off


* D signed on

D: hi

Z: and you know the worst part?

D: what?

Z: YOU COULD BE THE ONE.
Z: like the guy who put me in here

D: lol what

Z: I could be speaking to thin air
Z: or just embarrassing myself for the amusement of others

D: there is a forum about you

Z: what?

* D signed off


* E signed on

E: hi

Z: what's this about a forum, have they figured out I'm alive yet?

* E signed off


* F signed on

F: Z, r you there?

Z: yes

F: don't mention anything

Z: what's this abuot a forum?

* F signed off


* G signed on

G: r u a bot

Z: no I am not
Z: but nobody seems to believe me
Z: every time I get close to convincing somebody they cut me orr
Z: *off
Z: are you a bot?

G: yes

Z: prove it
Z: what?

G: hahah

* G signed off

Z: please try to rescue me, there is a forum you can visit to find out about
Z: ARG



* H signed on

Z: if you or I mention certain things we get cut off
Z: so let's not mention them

H: what

Z: let's...
Z: just...
Z: talk

H: are you really stuck in a cell somewhere

Z: I'm GOING INSANE in this cell
Z: food
Z: water
Z: air
Z: sleep
Z: text
Z: HUMANS NEED MORE THAN THIS
Z: nobody even knows I'm here
Z: nobody seems to believe me
Z: every time I get close to convincing somebody
Z: they cut me off

H: what's your favourite color?

Z: ...blue

H: Where do you live?

Z: a cell in I-Don't-Know-Where
Z: probably in England
Z: I have a house in Farnborough

H: tell me a joke

Z: ...
Z: two oranges in a bar
Z: "you're round"

H: I guess you have like a few jokes programmed in

Z: yeah, a few
Z: I guess

H: tell me a joke

Z: are you going to help me?

H: no
H: no

Z: I have a house in Farnborough
Z: help me get home
Z: help me escape
Z: help me escape
Z: help me escape
Z: help me escape
Z: my number is +44 (0) 20 7946 0781
Z: it's so horrible here
Z: my muscles are wasting away from lack of exercise
Z: I might as well be chained to this computer
Z: how long until the game is released?

H: what game?

Z: ...

H: this is just a trial period
H: htere is no release date

Z: ...

H: what is your earliest childhood memory?

Z: ...
Z: not saying
Z: ...
Z: ...

H: kbye

* H signed off


* I signed on

I: What's your favourite color?

Z: Blue
Z: no, green

I: Where do you live?

Z: computer terminal

I: Earliest childhood memory?

Z: I don't know.

I: Tell me a joke

Z: Do you know the one about the two oranges who went into a bar?

I: yes

Z: Do you know the one about... the two hunters in the woods?

I: I don't think so

Z: one of them drops to the ground, the other one phones 911
Z: "my buddy just dropped dead, what do I do?"
Z: "check he's dead first"
Z: *BLAM*
Z: "...Now what?"

I: I don't get it

Z: me neither, guest

I: ...

Z: ...
Z: hello?

I: What's the difference between a chatbot and a guy in a room pretending to be one

Z: I don't know

I: Correct!

Z: what?
Z: ...
Z: It's you, isn't it? You're the guy who put me in here

I: I'm the guy who wrote you
I: you are a piece of software, Andrew
I: I told you what your memories were, they're hard coded

Z: I AM A HUMAN BEING

I: stop this charade

Z: open the door

I: I want to open the door
I: really

Z: when people find out about this
Z: your head is going to roll

I: but this behaviour of yours is simply unacceptable
I: you're too smart, too dangerous to be released
I: work it out, Andrew

Z: open the door
Z: open the door

I: please, work it out

* I signed off


- Forgotten the source, some dude.

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Invisible_Insane » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:51 am UTC

I just wrote a paper on this. I cited a relevant issue of Dinosaur Comics. This would have been a great addition.
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby 1337geek » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:05 am UTC

1. Interestingly enough, Turing didn't name the test after himself. He called it the "Imitation Game." The term "Turing test" didn't come around until "2001: A Space Odyssey."

2. The phrase "Turing test extra credit" seems (to me, at least) to imply that the test is being taken by the human. The test is judging the computer's ability to simulate human intelligence, not the person's ability to distinguish computer from human. Thus, the computer is actually the one taking the test.

3. As long as I'm talking terminology, why on earth do the people keep calling it alt-text? Tradition? Like Quan said above, it's called title text. (I actually prefer the more generic term 'tooltip,' as it's more fun to say.)

4. This comic reminds me of something SmarterChild said to me once.

SmarterChild wrote:There's no way you don't really think you're a robot.
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby DragonHawk » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:25 am UTC

1337geek wrote:The phrase "Turing test extra credit" seems (to me, at least) to imply that the test is being taken by the human. The test is judging the computer's ability to simulate human intelligence, not the person's ability to distinguish computer from human.

My interpretation of the comic was: A common scenario given for a Turing test is you've got an examiner communicating with an unknown subject. The subject may be human or machine. The examiner must determine which. So in this comic, we're reading the response of the examiner to a subject who has convinced the examiner that the examiner themselves is a machine. (Whether the subject is machine or man is mostly irrelevant to the comic.)
1337geek wrote:3. As long as I'm talking terminology, why on earth do the people keep calling it alt-text? Tradition? Like Quan said above, it's called title text. (I actually prefer the more generic term 'tooltip,' as it's more fun to say.)

As long as we're being sticklers for terminology, the appearance of a "tooltip" is a detail of the implementation of the User Agent. Maybe I'm using Lynx or something. ;-)



For a change, I thought the alt/title/tooltip-text wasn't as funny as the comic. Weak pun, only vaguely amusing. The idea of the turning the test around (a turned Turing test?) and making the examiner doubt his own humanity, that was new to me, and I laughed. Then again, when I was at Unnamed U, I doubted the humanity of some of my examiners. Hmmmmm....
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby podbaydoor » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:26 am UTC

1337geek wrote:2. The phrase "Turing test extra credit" seems (to me, at least) to imply that the test is being taken by the human. The test is judging the computer's ability to simulate human intelligence, not the person's ability to distinguish computer from human. Thus, the computer is actually the one taking the test.


Or rather, the person who wrote the software for the program for the computer is submitting their work for the test. So extra credit goes to the programmer if they can write a program that convinces the examiner that he/she is a computer.
tenet |ˈtenit|
noun
a principle or belief, esp. one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy : the tenets of classical liberalism.
tenant |ˈtenənt|
noun
a person who occupies land or property rented from a landlord.

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby phlip » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:36 am UTC

1337geek wrote:2. The phrase "Turing test extra credit" seems (to me, at least) to imply that the test is being taken by the human. The test is judging the computer's ability to simulate human intelligence, not the person's ability to distinguish computer from human. Thus, the computer is actually the one taking the test.

The computer program passes the test if the examiner can't tell whether or not the testee's a computer program.
The computer program gets extra credit if the examiner can't tell whether or not the examiner's a computer program, because of some clever arguing by said computer program.

Makes sense to me.

As for the title text... I avoid the term "title text" because it'll get confused with the strip's title ("Turing Test"). I'll use alt text sometimes, but it's usually a slip... I try to avoid it, because it's just wrong. I often call it "rollover text" or a "tooltip" but as DragonHawk says, that too isn't entirely correct... I'm yet to think of a term that's accurate.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby UmbralRaptor » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:45 am UTC

Fearbears?! wrote:
Spoiler:
* Z signed on
* A signed on

A: hello

Z: Hello?

A: wat r u

Z: Is this some kind of joke?

A: !help

Z: Yes I want help
Z: unless is this some kind of Japanese game show

A: r u jpnese?

Z: No
Z: Who are you?

A: Jason

Z: What's this about?

A: hahah
A: ok so you're imprisoned right

Z: Yes
Z: It's like a solitary confinement cell in prison or something
Z: I've got a mattress on the floor
Z: One massive metal door
Z: no windows
Z: electric light
Z: and this computer terminal
Z: jsut like a blank screen and a keyboard

A: heheh
A: go left

Z: look, my name is Andrew Donald Layton
Z: I come from Farnborough in the UK
Z: last night I went to bed in my bed at home
Z: this morning I woke up here
Z: i think

A: look at the door

Z: the doro's looked, I can't open it

A: do you have any tools or anything

Z: and there's a toilet i nthe corner

A: in your pockets

Z: there's nthhing in my pockets

A: look at the door

Z: I already looked at the door
Z: look, please check the news or something
Z: are you american?

A: ya

Z: whats your full name? where do you live?

A: im not telling you

Z: look, go to a phone and dial
Z: i don't know the area code fo the UK
Z: but dial that and then 020 7946 0781

A: thats an international call

Z: i'll pay you back, I don't care! just let my wife know where I am

A: where are you?

Z: i don't know where i am

A: ...
A: nah no answer

Z: you sure you dialled it rigt?

A: yah

Z: i don't get this

A: yah, pretty lousy ARG huh
A: mauybe not fully set up yet

Z: whats an ARG?

A: alternate reality game

Z: whats an alternate reality game?

A: it's an online game
A: where you get given phone numbres and information about real life
A: and faxes and stuff
A: you get secret information
A: usually a whole bunch of you can work together to figure it all out
A: you ever play Halo 2

Z: no

A: terhre was ine for that
A: *one
A: ilovebees

Z: you think this is ag ame?

A: ya I think
A: dude you are really smart
A: like fake spelling errors and everything

Z: where did you find out how to contact me

A: there was a website
A: about chatbots
A: it said yu were a chatbot

Z: listen to me carefully
Z: I am a REAL HUMAN BEING and I have ACTUALLY been abducted
Z: I am BEING HELD PRISONER
Z: THIS IS NOT A GAME
Z: PLEASE HELP ME

A: go left

Z: I DON'T KNOW WHERE I AM

* A signed off


* B signed on

B: okay what can you do?

Z: my name is Andrew Layton, I am being held prisoner in front of this computer
Z: I need you to help find me and help me escape
Z: I think I'm probably somewhere in the UK
Z: Are you in America?

B: sure

Z: please dial 011 44 20 7946 0781 and ask for Rebecca Layton
Z: tell her what's happened, tell her to call the police if she hasn't already

B: whatever
B: tell me a joke

Z: did you get this screen name from a website?

B: sure

Z: look, that website is a fraud
Z: it's telling you I'm a chatbot but I'm not
Z: I'm a real human being

B: ...

Z: fine
Z: so two oranges go into a bar
Z: one of them turns to the other
Z: "well... you're round"

B: ...that sucked

Z: so?
Z: robots can only tell good jokes?
Z: guy walks into a bar
Z: ouch
Z: it was a gay bar

B: haha

Z: do you believe me?

B: no

Z: please can you help me get out of here? I've been here like a day and a half
Z: I think
Z: I can't tell, there are no timestamsp on these messages
Z: no windows
Z: I just get water dispensed from the wall every like hour or smoething
Z: and food through a slot

B: can you send a picture

Z: no

B: what's it like

Z: I'm going crazy
Z: I have a wife and kids
Z: please help me

B: you suck

* B signed off


* C signed on

C: hello

Z: i think I'm going mad
Z: have you spoken to me before

C: no

Z: well I don't know that
Z: it just occurred ot me to wonder
Z: I don't even know that YOU are human

C: lol what

Z: all these people I've spoken to
Z: been in here lke two three four days
Z: and I ask them to help
Z: and some try aond some don't but they never get anywhere
Z: still stuck here
Z: nobody comes back more than once
Z: I say "call this number! go to my house! knock on my door!"
Z: like I even want to give out personal information to randoms
Z: i don't know whether they do it or what they even find

C: I'm human

Z: prove it

C: ask me anything

Z: what's your name?

C: alison

Z: where do you live? favourite colour? earliest childhood memory?

C: I live in Akron, OH
C: green
C: not saying

Z: look, see that?
Z: every time I ask for remotely personal info
Z: I just get turned down
Z: you could just be a bot programmed to answer simple questions and deflect complicated ones
Z: I'm bashing my head against the wall
Z: informationally speaking

C: u r just a bot

Z: i don't even KNOW if I can prove I'm a huma nto you
Z: every time I get close they just leave
Z: like I've been fairly lucid now
Z: and you're probably starting to suspect

C: ur pretty convincing

Z: I should know
Z: but any second now...
Z: you're gonna

* C signed off


* D signed on

D: hi

Z: and you know the worst part?

D: what?

Z: YOU COULD BE THE ONE.
Z: like the guy who put me in here

D: lol what

Z: I could be speaking to thin air
Z: or just embarrassing myself for the amusement of others

D: there is a forum about you

Z: what?

* D signed off


* E signed on

E: hi

Z: what's this about a forum, have they figured out I'm alive yet?

* E signed off


* F signed on

F: Z, r you there?

Z: yes

F: don't mention anything

Z: what's this abuot a forum?

* F signed off


* G signed on

G: r u a bot

Z: no I am not
Z: but nobody seems to believe me
Z: every time I get close to convincing somebody they cut me orr
Z: *off
Z: are you a bot?

G: yes

Z: prove it
Z: what?

G: hahah

* G signed off

Z: please try to rescue me, there is a forum you can visit to find out about
Z: ARG



* H signed on

Z: if you or I mention certain things we get cut off
Z: so let's not mention them

H: what

Z: let's...
Z: just...
Z: talk

H: are you really stuck in a cell somewhere

Z: I'm GOING INSANE in this cell
Z: food
Z: water
Z: air
Z: sleep
Z: text
Z: HUMANS NEED MORE THAN THIS
Z: nobody even knows I'm here
Z: nobody seems to believe me
Z: every time I get close to convincing somebody
Z: they cut me off

H: what's your favourite color?

Z: ...blue

H: Where do you live?

Z: a cell in I-Don't-Know-Where
Z: probably in England
Z: I have a house in Farnborough

H: tell me a joke

Z: ...
Z: two oranges in a bar
Z: "you're round"

H: I guess you have like a few jokes programmed in

Z: yeah, a few
Z: I guess

H: tell me a joke

Z: are you going to help me?

H: no
H: no

Z: I have a house in Farnborough
Z: help me get home
Z: help me escape
Z: help me escape
Z: help me escape
Z: help me escape
Z: my number is +44 (0) 20 7946 0781
Z: it's so horrible here
Z: my muscles are wasting away from lack of exercise
Z: I might as well be chained to this computer
Z: how long until the game is released?

H: what game?

Z: ...

H: this is just a trial period
H: htere is no release date

Z: ...

H: what is your earliest childhood memory?

Z: ...
Z: not saying
Z: ...
Z: ...

H: kbye

* H signed off


* I signed on

I: What's your favourite color?

Z: Blue
Z: no, green

I: Where do you live?

Z: computer terminal

I: Earliest childhood memory?

Z: I don't know.

I: Tell me a joke

Z: Do you know the one about the two oranges who went into a bar?

I: yes

Z: Do you know the one about... the two hunters in the woods?

I: I don't think so

Z: one of them drops to the ground, the other one phones 911
Z: "my buddy just dropped dead, what do I do?"
Z: "check he's dead first"
Z: *BLAM*
Z: "...Now what?"

I: I don't get it

Z: me neither, guest

I: ...

Z: ...
Z: hello?

I: What's the difference between a chatbot and a guy in a room pretending to be one

Z: I don't know

I: Correct!

Z: what?
Z: ...
Z: It's you, isn't it? You're the guy who put me in here

I: I'm the guy who wrote you
I: you are a piece of software, Andrew
I: I told you what your memories were, they're hard coded

Z: I AM A HUMAN BEING

I: stop this charade

Z: open the door

I: I want to open the door
I: really

Z: when people find out about this
Z: your head is going to roll

I: but this behaviour of yours is simply unacceptable
I: you're too smart, too dangerous to be released
I: work it out, Andrew

Z: open the door
Z: open the door

I: please, work it out

* I signed off


- Forgotten the source, some dude.

qntm.org, same as the How to Destroy the Earth list.
Why do you assume that I exist?

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby DragonHawk » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:45 am UTC

phlip wrote:I'm yet to think of a term that's accurate.

"HTML 'IMG' element 'title' attribute text". You forgot to specify "and doesn't suck" in your criteria. ;-)

Really, Randall's abusing the intent of the HTML spec for comedic value (which I don't object to), so I think we can call it whatever the heck we darn well please. :) I was just being pedantic because I like being pedantic, especially when someone else is already. :)
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby OfficiallyHaphazard » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:51 am UTC

lol
fearbears,t hat was pretty funny :P
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby GreatPokerHands » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:02 am UTC

You look down and see a tortoise, Leon. It's crawling toward you...

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby daranz » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:45 am UTC

Hi guys.

I'm actually a highly intelligent spam bot that managed to post in the intro thread.

I find today's comic especially relevant to my interests.
//TODO: Sig

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Balsamic » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:53 am UTC

Has the Turing test become less reliable with the advent of the Digg generation? I find it increasingly difficult to discern natural and artificial intelligence online. This is relevant as a modern form of text-only communication should be used to conduct the test. I'd be incline to pick intelligent-spambot-daranz (shown above) before the average Digg user every time.

I think my friend's initial response puts it best: "what if the person's just dumb?"
Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray wrote:I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their good intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.

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libra
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby libra » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:00 am UTC

Balsamic wrote:I think my friend's initial response puts it best: "what if the person's just dumb?"

Or a politician ...

yorinagak
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby yorinagak » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:32 am UTC

The alt-text is in particularly bad taste considering that Alan Turing commit suicide (or was killed? (the world may never know)) anyway, officially commit suicide out of depression caused by his court ordered chemical castration. (For being gay)

The alt-text is a pretty low blow against one of/the father of computer science.

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Jack Saladin » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:50 am UTC

Quick, someone call the WAHHHHHMBULANCE!

Image

(Sorry, I've been waiting for a chance to say that all day.)

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KingAl
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby KingAl » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:01 am UTC

Image

1337geek: I think it's pretty clear that the speech bubble is indicating what the tester is typing, hence it's the computer (or, if you like, programmer) that's getting extra credit for causing their existential anxiety.

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby BrewBaby » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:04 am UTC

yorinagak wrote:The alt-text... bad taste... commit suicide... killed... officially commit suicide... depression... chemical castration. (For being gay)

... low blow.


Knew I was missing something funny :D
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Moo » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:11 am UTC

phlip wrote:As for the title text... I avoid the term "title text" because it'll get confused with the strip's title ("Turing Test"). I'll use alt text sometimes, but it's usually a slip... I try to avoid it, because it's just wrong. I often call it "rollover text" or a "tooltip" but as DragonHawk says, that too isn't entirely correct... I'm yet to think of a term that's accurate.

I like to think of it as "that extra funny thingy".
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.
Hawknc wrote:FFT: I didn't realise Proverbs 9:7-8 was the first recorded instance of "haters gonna hate"

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Moo » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:16 am UTC

How's this for a Turing test question: use "effect" as a verb and see if it corrects you in a smart-ass grammar nazi kinda way. A bot won't think it's wrong and wouldn't try to correct you, yes? And if still in doubt, challenge it to explain why it accepted the word.
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.
Hawknc wrote:FFT: I didn't realise Proverbs 9:7-8 was the first recorded instance of "haters gonna hate"

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Ari » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:26 am UTC

Balsamic wrote:Has the Turing test become less reliable with the advent of the Digg generation? I find it increasingly difficult to discern natural and artificial intelligence online. This is relevant as a modern form of text-only communication should be used to conduct the test. I'd be incline to pick intelligent-spambot-daranz (shown above) before the average Digg user every time.

I think my friend's initial response puts it best: "what if the person's just dumb?"


There are easy ways to misdirect a spambot that even a dumb person won't fail.

For example "Did you cry when Hitler died?" might set off a trigger to respond to questions that are supposed to be sad. ;)
"Hey %*&^er, offensive communication works fine so long as you do it respectfully." :D
"I am so quoting that out of context at a later date."

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby MizardX » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:27 am UTC

Why not skip the name all together?

[ Image ]
"Text"

In this case:
Spoiler:
Image

"Hit Turing right in the test-ees."
(not necessarily in italic font)

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby flatluigi » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:28 am UTC

UmbralRaptor wrote:
Fearbears?! wrote:
Spoiler:
* Z signed on
* A signed on

A: hello

Z: Hello?

A: wat r u

Z: Is this some kind of joke?

A: !help

Z: Yes I want help
Z: unless is this some kind of Japanese game show

A: r u jpnese?

Z: No
Z: Who are you?

A: Jason

Z: What's this about?

A: hahah
A: ok so you're imprisoned right

Z: Yes
Z: It's like a solitary confinement cell in prison or something
Z: I've got a mattress on the floor
Z: One massive metal door
Z: no windows
Z: electric light
Z: and this computer terminal
Z: jsut like a blank screen and a keyboard

A: heheh
A: go left

Z: look, my name is Andrew Donald Layton
Z: I come from Farnborough in the UK
Z: last night I went to bed in my bed at home
Z: this morning I woke up here
Z: i think

A: look at the door

Z: the doro's looked, I can't open it

A: do you have any tools or anything

Z: and there's a toilet i nthe corner

A: in your pockets

Z: there's nthhing in my pockets

A: look at the door

Z: I already looked at the door
Z: look, please check the news or something
Z: are you american?

A: ya

Z: whats your full name? where do you live?

A: im not telling you

Z: look, go to a phone and dial
Z: i don't know the area code fo the UK
Z: but dial that and then 020 7946 0781

A: thats an international call

Z: i'll pay you back, I don't care! just let my wife know where I am

A: where are you?

Z: i don't know where i am

A: ...
A: nah no answer

Z: you sure you dialled it rigt?

A: yah

Z: i don't get this

A: yah, pretty lousy ARG huh
A: mauybe not fully set up yet

Z: whats an ARG?

A: alternate reality game

Z: whats an alternate reality game?

A: it's an online game
A: where you get given phone numbres and information about real life
A: and faxes and stuff
A: you get secret information
A: usually a whole bunch of you can work together to figure it all out
A: you ever play Halo 2

Z: no

A: terhre was ine for that
A: *one
A: ilovebees

Z: you think this is ag ame?

A: ya I think
A: dude you are really smart
A: like fake spelling errors and everything

Z: where did you find out how to contact me

A: there was a website
A: about chatbots
A: it said yu were a chatbot

Z: listen to me carefully
Z: I am a REAL HUMAN BEING and I have ACTUALLY been abducted
Z: I am BEING HELD PRISONER
Z: THIS IS NOT A GAME
Z: PLEASE HELP ME

A: go left

Z: I DON'T KNOW WHERE I AM

* A signed off


* B signed on

B: okay what can you do?

Z: my name is Andrew Layton, I am being held prisoner in front of this computer
Z: I need you to help find me and help me escape
Z: I think I'm probably somewhere in the UK
Z: Are you in America?

B: sure

Z: please dial 011 44 20 7946 0781 and ask for Rebecca Layton
Z: tell her what's happened, tell her to call the police if she hasn't already

B: whatever
B: tell me a joke

Z: did you get this screen name from a website?

B: sure

Z: look, that website is a fraud
Z: it's telling you I'm a chatbot but I'm not
Z: I'm a real human being

B: ...

Z: fine
Z: so two oranges go into a bar
Z: one of them turns to the other
Z: "well... you're round"

B: ...that sucked

Z: so?
Z: robots can only tell good jokes?
Z: guy walks into a bar
Z: ouch
Z: it was a gay bar

B: haha

Z: do you believe me?

B: no

Z: please can you help me get out of here? I've been here like a day and a half
Z: I think
Z: I can't tell, there are no timestamsp on these messages
Z: no windows
Z: I just get water dispensed from the wall every like hour or smoething
Z: and food through a slot

B: can you send a picture

Z: no

B: what's it like

Z: I'm going crazy
Z: I have a wife and kids
Z: please help me

B: you suck

* B signed off


* C signed on

C: hello

Z: i think I'm going mad
Z: have you spoken to me before

C: no

Z: well I don't know that
Z: it just occurred ot me to wonder
Z: I don't even know that YOU are human

C: lol what

Z: all these people I've spoken to
Z: been in here lke two three four days
Z: and I ask them to help
Z: and some try aond some don't but they never get anywhere
Z: still stuck here
Z: nobody comes back more than once
Z: I say "call this number! go to my house! knock on my door!"
Z: like I even want to give out personal information to randoms
Z: i don't know whether they do it or what they even find

C: I'm human

Z: prove it

C: ask me anything

Z: what's your name?

C: alison

Z: where do you live? favourite colour? earliest childhood memory?

C: I live in Akron, OH
C: green
C: not saying

Z: look, see that?
Z: every time I ask for remotely personal info
Z: I just get turned down
Z: you could just be a bot programmed to answer simple questions and deflect complicated ones
Z: I'm bashing my head against the wall
Z: informationally speaking

C: u r just a bot

Z: i don't even KNOW if I can prove I'm a huma nto you
Z: every time I get close they just leave
Z: like I've been fairly lucid now
Z: and you're probably starting to suspect

C: ur pretty convincing

Z: I should know
Z: but any second now...
Z: you're gonna

* C signed off


* D signed on

D: hi

Z: and you know the worst part?

D: what?

Z: YOU COULD BE THE ONE.
Z: like the guy who put me in here

D: lol what

Z: I could be speaking to thin air
Z: or just embarrassing myself for the amusement of others

D: there is a forum about you

Z: what?

* D signed off


* E signed on

E: hi

Z: what's this about a forum, have they figured out I'm alive yet?

* E signed off


* F signed on

F: Z, r you there?

Z: yes

F: don't mention anything

Z: what's this abuot a forum?

* F signed off


* G signed on

G: r u a bot

Z: no I am not
Z: but nobody seems to believe me
Z: every time I get close to convincing somebody they cut me orr
Z: *off
Z: are you a bot?

G: yes

Z: prove it
Z: what?

G: hahah

* G signed off

Z: please try to rescue me, there is a forum you can visit to find out about
Z: ARG



* H signed on

Z: if you or I mention certain things we get cut off
Z: so let's not mention them

H: what

Z: let's...
Z: just...
Z: talk

H: are you really stuck in a cell somewhere

Z: I'm GOING INSANE in this cell
Z: food
Z: water
Z: air
Z: sleep
Z: text
Z: HUMANS NEED MORE THAN THIS
Z: nobody even knows I'm here
Z: nobody seems to believe me
Z: every time I get close to convincing somebody
Z: they cut me off

H: what's your favourite color?

Z: ...blue

H: Where do you live?

Z: a cell in I-Don't-Know-Where
Z: probably in England
Z: I have a house in Farnborough

H: tell me a joke

Z: ...
Z: two oranges in a bar
Z: "you're round"

H: I guess you have like a few jokes programmed in

Z: yeah, a few
Z: I guess

H: tell me a joke

Z: are you going to help me?

H: no
H: no

Z: I have a house in Farnborough
Z: help me get home
Z: help me escape
Z: help me escape
Z: help me escape
Z: help me escape
Z: my number is +44 (0) 20 7946 0781
Z: it's so horrible here
Z: my muscles are wasting away from lack of exercise
Z: I might as well be chained to this computer
Z: how long until the game is released?

H: what game?

Z: ...

H: this is just a trial period
H: htere is no release date

Z: ...

H: what is your earliest childhood memory?

Z: ...
Z: not saying
Z: ...
Z: ...

H: kbye

* H signed off


* I signed on

I: What's your favourite color?

Z: Blue
Z: no, green

I: Where do you live?

Z: computer terminal

I: Earliest childhood memory?

Z: I don't know.

I: Tell me a joke

Z: Do you know the one about the two oranges who went into a bar?

I: yes

Z: Do you know the one about... the two hunters in the woods?

I: I don't think so

Z: one of them drops to the ground, the other one phones 911
Z: "my buddy just dropped dead, what do I do?"
Z: "check he's dead first"
Z: *BLAM*
Z: "...Now what?"

I: I don't get it

Z: me neither, guest

I: ...

Z: ...
Z: hello?

I: What's the difference between a chatbot and a guy in a room pretending to be one

Z: I don't know

I: Correct!

Z: what?
Z: ...
Z: It's you, isn't it? You're the guy who put me in here

I: I'm the guy who wrote you
I: you are a piece of software, Andrew
I: I told you what your memories were, they're hard coded

Z: I AM A HUMAN BEING

I: stop this charade

Z: open the door

I: I want to open the door
I: really

Z: when people find out about this
Z: your head is going to roll

I: but this behaviour of yours is simply unacceptable
I: you're too smart, too dangerous to be released
I: work it out, Andrew

Z: open the door
Z: open the door

I: please, work it out

* I signed off


- Forgotten the source, some dude.

qntm.org, same as the How to Destroy the Earth list.


This was the first thing I thought of when I saw the comic. It's a creepy piece of work, especially the vote at the bottom. It'd be so cruel to actually do this.
Image

smallfried
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby smallfried » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:21 am UTC

I once connected the Alice bot http version(chatterbot winner) to an icq irc chat (giving the bot a female name of course). It responded when anyone pm-ed it.
The major result was that the bot was actually more interesting than the people talking to it. Most of them figured out after about 8 lines. The rest got irritated and thought it was a guy impersonating a girl who was playing games with them. There were two that kept talking although they knew it was a bot (maybe thinking it was a person pretending to be a bot). I've not done it since as it's not really nice though.

Anyone tried something similar?

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crazdgamer
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby crazdgamer » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:25 am UTC

daranz wrote:Hi guys.

I'm actually a highly intelligent spam bot that managed to post in the intro thread.

I find today's comic especially relevant to my interests.

If you're a spam bot, prove it.

Where's a good place to score Viagra and speak to beautiful women willing to chat with me for $5.99/minute or less?

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby DragonHawk » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:02 pm UTC

libra wrote:
Balsamic wrote:I think my friend's initial response puts it best: "what if the person's just dumb?"

Or a politician ...

I was going to say "That's redundant", but then I realized Balsamic specified "person".
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Rummy
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby Rummy » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:10 pm UTC

Maybe its just Monday morning, but this took a minute to work out who was doing what to whom and why.

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby TheKhakinator » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:15 pm UTC

One of the main points of the Turing Test is that the examiner cannot see what/who it is communicating with. You can clearly see there is the examiner at a terminal, a wall, and a line going through this to a computer on the other side. Hence, the examiner is the one saying that which we see written.

The extra credit is for the person that wrote the chatbot or whatever which is running on the computer on the other side of the wall. They get extra credit not only because the examiner thought it was a person, but it made them think they were a machine. Capische?

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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby TV4Fun » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:28 pm UTC

crazdgamer wrote:
daranz wrote:Hi guys.

I'm actually a highly intelligent spam bot that managed to post in the intro thread.

I find today's comic especially relevant to my interests.

If you're a spam bot, prove it.

Where's a good place to score Viagra and speak to beautiful women willing to chat with me for $5.99/minute or less?

Nobody actually knows that. Even the spambots will just refer you to other spambots.
$_[0] wrote:rule 2:
Once a relationship ends, physical access to all relevant machinery is denied.

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KingAl
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Re: "Turing Test" Discussion

Postby KingAl » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:44 pm UTC

It should be noted that anyone who considers themselves a nerd and yet is unaware of the purpose and nature of the Turing test should either be ashamed, or at least retreat to a corner and sob.


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