0342: "1337: Part 2"

This forum is for the individual discussion thread that goes with each new comic.

Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates

User avatar
Plamo
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:22 am UTC
Location: The Internet
Contact:

0342: "1337: Part 2"

Postby Plamo » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:04 am UTC

Image

Link: http://xkcd.com/342/

Alt Text: Trivia: Elaine is actually her middle name.

Man, I'd love to be trained like that. She probably feels like batman.
Last edited by Plamo on Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:05 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Uselessnesses... what a silly word.

User avatar
Geekthras
3) What if it's delicious?
Posts: 529
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:23 am UTC
Location: Around Boston, MA

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Geekthras » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:05 am UTC

Return of Bobby tables!
Wait. With a SPOON?!

ShadowLurker
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 3:41 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby ShadowLurker » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:05 am UTC

Wrong image

but at least you posted the thread first!

top1214
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:06 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby top1214 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:05 am UTC

Help I'm trapped in a license factory Elaine Roberts?

User avatar
persephonester
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:27 am UTC
Location: boston
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby persephonester » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:06 am UTC

Yay I was right! Her son is Robert Roberts! I wonder if his middle name is Elaine, too.


Edit: Under the impression that drop tables was his full first name, since I didn't think schools used more than the first initial of the middle name for their records.
Last edited by persephonester on Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:09 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
nyeguy
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:59 pm UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby nyeguy » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:06 am UTC

Try formatting the topic correctly if you plan to post it early. It isn't a race.

Anyway, this is turning out to be really epic. Too bad Bobby Tables never took to computers. He could have used his name well in the future.

Edit:
persephonester wrote:I wonder if his middle name is Elaine, too.

Actually, its '); DROP TABLE Students;--.
Last edited by nyeguy on Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:07 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Image

User avatar
crazdgamer
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:10 pm UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby crazdgamer » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:06 am UTC

top1214 wrote:Help I'm trapped in a license factory Elaine Roberts?

Help I'm trapped in a driver's license factory Elaine Roberts.

So close.

ShadowLurker
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 3:41 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby ShadowLurker » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:08 am UTC

That hair looks really weird...

User avatar
Plamo
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:22 am UTC
Location: The Internet
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Plamo » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:08 am UTC

ShadowLurker wrote:Wrong image

but at least you posted the thread first!


That's funny, because I actually did have the right image. I copy pasta'd the old one and added a two to see if the comic was there, found it, promptly posted it to the forums and forgot to change the URL again.

But, at least I posted the thread first.

Now it's time to contemplate whether or not I should post the thread for the third comic (You know it's coming) right away as well.
Uselessnesses... what a silly word.

thethirdmoose
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:03 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby thethirdmoose » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:08 am UTC

Hmmm... a quick google search for elaine roberts turns up several elaine robertses...
there's a south dakota senator, a pastor, vodafone's head of marketing, the director of the columbus, OH airport authority, but no 1337 h4x0r

ln|mower|+c
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:20 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby ln|mower|+c » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:09 am UTC

I'm getting really excited to see the rest of this series!
signature

User avatar
Plamo
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:22 am UTC
Location: The Internet
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Plamo » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:10 am UTC

thethirdmoose wrote:Hmmm... a quick google search for elaine roberts turns up several elaine robertses...
there's a south dakota senator, a pastor, vodafone's head of marketing, the director of the columbus, OH airport authority, but no 1337 h4x0r

She hacked google, she must remain anonymous, obviously.
Uselessnesses... what a silly word.

mackey
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:18 am UTC
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby mackey » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:11 am UTC

what will happen next

the suspense is killing me

jib
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:04 am UTC
Location: Neither here nor there
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby jib » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:15 am UTC

Is Elaine single?

User avatar
podbaydoor
Posts: 7548
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:16 am UTC
Location: spaceship somewhere out there

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby podbaydoor » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:18 am UTC

Hacking nothing. I want to see "Elaine" punch her way out of a coffin and through six feet of earth.
tenet |ˈtenit|
noun
a principle or belief, esp. one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy : the tenets of classical liberalism.
tenant |ˈtenənt|
noun
a person who occupies land or property rented from a landlord.

User avatar
OfficiallyHaphazard
Age=postcount/60
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:56 pm UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby OfficiallyHaphazard » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:22 am UTC

jib wrote:Is Elaine single?


dibs
:mrgreen:
"Who are you, how did you get in my house?" - Donald Knuth

top1214
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:06 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby top1214 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:26 am UTC

podbaydoor wrote:Hacking nothing. I want to see "Elaine" punch her way out of a coffin and through six feet of earth.



As much as I liked the unreality of slicing people clean in half with a sword in the 1st movie, the escaping the coffin bit defying gravity was a step too far.

User avatar
Sc4Freak
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:50 am UTC
Location: Redmond, Washington

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Sc4Freak » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:50 am UTC

I've used both A* and Dijkstra's Algorithm in pathfinding - and I'm pretty sure Dijkstra's Algorithm requires more memory than A*.

Dijkstra's algorithm is really the same as A* except the heuristic is always 0 - which means that when searching nodes it searches every node radially outwards until it finds the target. A*'s heuristic cuts down on nodes searched - thereby decreasing overall memory usage.
Last edited by Sc4Freak on Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:07 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

jib
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:04 am UTC
Location: Neither here nor there
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby jib » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:55 am UTC

Maybe in this specific problem, there were no useful heuristics that would not have taken a non-trivial amount of memory to calculate.

torritorri
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:28 pm UTC
Location: SoCal
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby torritorri » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:56 am UTC

Hmm...Mr. Munroe seems to have a penchant for Kill Bill. First Post Office Showdown and now this. (Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing, I think it's awesome.)

Also? Help I'm trapped in a driver's license factory Elaine Roberts is made of win.

Did anyone else laugh at the fact that the laptop guy (that is what I'm calling him) was holding an icepack to his head in the first panel? Woot for continuity.
Last edited by torritorri on Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:01 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
AndreGiant wrote:Alien vs. Predator vs. Transformers vs. Jason Bourne vs. Terminator vs. half the cast of 300 vs. Agent Smith, on a plane, in space.


Jesster wrote:Jason Bourne would win in seven and a half minutes.

++$_
Mo' Money
Posts: 2370
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:06 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby ++$_ » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:57 am UTC

If Mrs. Roberts is the 2nd greatest hacker, why does H. Elaine Roberts have to train under Knuth? Couldn't she be home-schooled?

Or does Knuth have other skills (katana usage, for example) that Mrs. Roberts doesn't have?

User avatar
Griffin
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:46 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Griffin » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:10 am UTC

Being great at something and being great at teaching something are two entirely different things. plus she'll have to figure out all the really good stuff on her own anyway, obviously.
Bdthemag: "I don't always GM, but when I do I prefer to put my player's in situations that include pain and torture. Stay creative my friends."

Bayobeasts - the Pokemon: Orthoclase project.

User avatar
Twasbrillig
Tawsbirlig
Posts: 1942
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:50 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Twasbrillig » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:12 am UTC

I go by my middle name too! No wai!
I want to have Bakemaster's babies. It's possible, with science.

I wonder if you can see...
...what is wrong with my signature?

wing wrote:I'm sorry... But that was THE funniest thing I've ever read on the interbutts.

jib
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:04 am UTC
Location: Neither here nor there
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby jib » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:13 am UTC

If Mrs. Roberts is the 2nd greatest hacker, why does H. Elaine Roberts have to train under Knuth? Couldn't she be home-schooled?


The fact that Knuth's hacking skills are less than Mrs. Roberts' does not imply that Knuth's hacking skills are a subset of Mrs. Roberts'. Perhaps we can assume that in the 11 years before she began training with Knuth, Elaine learned all of Mrs. Roberts' hacking skills, and then she went to Knuth to learn the subset of his hacking skills which does not intersect with Mrs. Roberts' hacking skills.

User avatar
scowdich
The Hedgehog
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 4:55 am UTC
Location: University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign)
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby scowdich » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:16 am UTC

There's just one thing that's bothering me about this comic..."like a ring in a bell" seems to me to be lifted from Chuck Berry's "Johnny B. Goode", but the lyric is better interpreted "just like a-ringin' a bell" - that is, just like ringing a bell (that is, teh leetness comes quite easily to young Elaine).

Doesn't make it any less awesome, though.

User avatar
6453893
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:40 am UTC
Location: Australia

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby 6453893 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:20 am UTC

I think Bobby Tables is going to rise to defeat his sister Help I'm Trapped in a License Plate factory, who's gone mad with power. It will be hack-to-the-death, with the entirety of Google at stake.

sql_lall
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:33 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby sql_lall » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:36 am UTC

$_[0] wrote:If Mrs. Roberts is the 2nd greatest hacker, why does H. Elaine Roberts have to train under Knuth? Couldn't she be home-schooled?

I think you'll find that it's (the now grown-up) Elaine Roberts who is the #2 hacker.
Any chances she'll ending up going to Redmond to Kill Bill?

Edit: and while A* might expand fewer nodes, that's not guarenteed, so for 100% certainty, Dijkstra uses less memory as you don't need to store the heuristic guess (but you're right that, on average, it's probably better as your queue will be smaller)

User avatar
cephalopod9
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:23 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby cephalopod9 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:44 am UTC

Mrs. Roberts' daughter probably wouldn't grow up to be another Mrs. Roberts name wise.

top1214 wrote:
podbaydoor wrote:Hacking nothing. I want to see "Elaine" punch her way out of a coffin and through six feet of earth.



As much as I liked the unreality of slicing people clean in half with a sword in the 1st movie, the escaping the coffin bit defying gravity was a step too far.

Spoiler:
It's only really 1337 if she does it without making use of either the knife or the metal flashlight she has with her(and of course nothing takes away the pain of rock salt embedded in one's chest like burrowing six feet straight up, and of course that'll get cleared up with the instantaneous medical care one can get with the kind of money it takes to fly around the world with a katana as carry on lugage). I'm sorry, I clearly have problems

The flash backs are adorable.
Image

User avatar
Gem
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:56 am UTC
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Gem » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:51 am UTC

This is going to be epic. Can't wait for tomorrow! Actually I can, because I have an exam.

Helge
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:49 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Helge » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:53 am UTC

What is a lower bound of O(n log(n))?

Look for example at http://mathworld.wolfram.com/LandauSymbols.html to see that Landau Symbols are used for upper bounds.... I probably would say that one should replace the lower bound by an upper bound.

Best,
Helge

User avatar
DeadCatX2
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:22 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby DeadCatX2 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:02 am UTC

Fantastic! I loved every panel.

Can anyone name any O(n log log n) algorithms?

Also, wouldn't that function grow slower than O(n) for practical values of n?

StaticVector
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:06 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby StaticVector » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:13 am UTC

yes DeadCatX2, it would, by a whole lot. nothing wrong with that.
and Helge, it is not incorrect to say something is lower bounded by an order class. computer scientists abuse the notation.

I can think of a whole lot of n log* n algorithms, which are quite common for unions and finds in disjoint sets

Euclidean minimum spanning trees make for another common example of n log log n algorithms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_ ... nning_tree

EvanED
Posts: 4331
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:28 am UTC
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby EvanED » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:36 am UTC

Helge wrote:What is a lower bound of O(n log(n))?

It means that there is no algorithm that has a better order than O(n log n). For instance, if the only operation you can perform on elements of an array is < comparisons, then it cannot be sorted in less than O(n log n) time; hence O(n log n) is a lower bound.

slayer
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:50 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby slayer » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:53 am UTC

It means that there is no algorithm that has a better order than O(n log n). For instance, if the only operation you can perform on elements of an array is < comparisons, then it cannot be sorted in less than O(n log n) time; hence O(n log n) is a lower bound.


The point is that the Big-O notation is used for upper bounds and not lower bounds. Ω (capital Omega) would have been the appropriate system to use for lower bounds (i.e., Ω(n log n))

jib
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:04 am UTC
Location: Neither here nor there
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby jib » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:56 am UTC

I think he almost certainly means a lower bound of the upper bound. (e.g the lower bound of complexity of a comparison-based sorting algorithm is O(log n))

User avatar
Shotty
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:47 am UTC
Location: Klagenfurt, Austria
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Shotty » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:59 am UTC

I think Elaine might be a reference to the anime Serial Experiments Lain - it's about a hacker girl too :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Experiments_Lain

but maybe then - who really knows?

User avatar
aerojad
Wall O' AWESOME
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:54 am UTC
Location: Detroit, MI
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby aerojad » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:01 am UTC

thank you XKCD for completely fucking up my week clock. I kinda flipped in my head "there's no way it's Wednesday already. wtf Tuesday?!" But I'm good now.
Image

Piarew
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:57 am UTC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Piarew » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:20 am UTC

Wow. I thought we were on track for a super funny comic story, but I never imagined it would lead into something so epic. I wonder if perhaps we will find our young heroine riding a motorcycle off of a plummeting space station with insufficient ammunition by the 4th panel. Only time will tell :twisted: .
The new kid on the block.

Domovoi
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:37 am UTC

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby Domovoi » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:41 am UTC

Made of win.

By the way, did it look like laptop guy was wearing a motorcycle helmet to anyone else in the first panel? I couldn't figure out what was going on there at first.

EvanED
Posts: 4331
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:28 am UTC
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: 1337: Part 2 Discussion

Postby EvanED » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:55 am UTC

slayer wrote:
It means that there is no algorithm that has a better order than O(n log n). For instance, if the only operation you can perform on elements of an array is < comparisons, then it cannot be sorted in less than O(n log n) time; hence O(n log n) is a lower bound.


The point is that the Big-O notation is used for upper bounds and not lower bounds. Ω (capital Omega) would have been the appropriate system to use for lower bounds (i.e., Ω(n log n))

Ah, I see. I thought about putting a disclaimer about that, but was too lazy to produce the Ω character. ;-) We CS people do tend to abuse "O" and use it where Ω should be used.


Return to “Individual XKCD Comic Threads”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jgh and 101 guests