0359: "Rock Band"

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alexthesoso
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Re: Rock Band

Postby alexthesoso » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:19 pm UTC

i could never get into guitar hero. see, i have the ultimate response when peopel say, why dont you learn to play a real guitar?

my response, well, i play electric, acoustic, 12 string acoustic, and base. i also play the rebec and the guiterin. whats your point?

heh. but as i was saying, trying to play guitar hero, i kept trying to play to the rythym of the song, and the strums werent quite right on it. also, i played the whammy bar properly, rather than just going nuts with it, which apparently in gh doesnt rack up as many points.

a friend brought over rock band to my bachelor party, and i fell in love. i finally got it, as rb seemed much better about where they have you strum. and, i prefer the lack of clicking.

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Triss Hawkeye
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Triss Hawkeye » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:56 pm UTC

I want Rock Band so badly. It looks so much fun - but I'll actually have to buy a console first. I only have PCs (although I do have two of them plus a laptop in the house...).

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blewis
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Re: Rock Band

Postby blewis » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:21 pm UTC

Domovoi wrote:Perfect. There's always that guy. I love how some people don't understand that the whole point of many video games is giving you the -idea- that you're doing something awesome without actually having to perform said difficult feat. It's like saying "Why don't you join the SAS and gun down real terrorists?"


Because it's dangerous.
Because I'm morally opposed to killing real people.
Because I can't fly off to Afghanistan for half an hour, gun down terrorists, and go home to bed.
Because there are physical reasons I can't get into the SAS that don't prevent me from wielding a keyboard and mouse.

The only attraction I can think of in favour of the real thing in this case is the increased difficulty.

I fully support the folks who play GH or RB because "it's fun", but I don't buy this particular comparison.

Ben

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Hephesus
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Hephesus » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:21 am UTC

blewis wrote:
Because it's dangerous.
Because I'm morally opposed to killing real people.
Because I can't fly off to Afghanistan for half an hour, gun down terrorists, and go home to bed.
Because there are physical reasons I can't get into the SAS that don't prevent me from wielding a keyboard and mouse.

The only attraction I can think of in favour of the real thing in this case is the increased difficulty.

I fully support the folks who play GH or RB because "it's fun", but I don't buy this particular comparison.

Ben


Ok, how about no one tells me to learn to cook for real when I play Cooking Mama?

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Maseiken
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Maseiken » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:02 am UTC

That's appropriate.
Although it is an exceptional circumstance.
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Gloria
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Gloria » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:46 am UTC

Animos: Exactly. I tell people I play GH because I want to be a rock star (a fantasy), not a musician. Oh well.

Also, I don't see why the fact DDR demands more physical activity somehow then makes it better than GH. Every other video game out there has been letting players sit on their asses for ages, but nobody cares. Sure, it's nice to be able to combine physical activity with game play, but I can get exercise by just going to the gym or getting outside. Maybe sometimes I just want to sit on the couch and enjoy a game instead of hopping madly.

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Twinfire0
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Twinfire0 » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:29 am UTC

Wow, this comic really hits home with me. I'm always getting these comments from my friends who think it's "uncool" or being a "poser" by playing Rock Band or Guitar Hero. But really, who the heck plays Guitar Hero to be cool? I play it because it's fun, and the music is excellent (in my opinion). Plus, it's the only thing I can really cream my friends at :P

I figure I might as well share my Rock Band experience, seeing as how a few others are doing so as well.

Well, a couple of weeks ago my friend, brother, and I pitched in to buy Rock Band; Safe to say that it's pretty much the only thing we play now. Now, I've never played any of the Guitar Hero games, but I caught on to this one pretty quickly. The difficulty level is just right, and it's absolutely a ton of fun when you have four friends playing at once.

The only major problem I've been having is with the controller (I guess I've been rocking too hard?). The down-strum acts a little screwy sometimes, as if you're pushing it into a cushion of jello. It's hard to tell when you've hit a note or not, as it does not provide any feedback (clicking sound) when you press it. Also, my friend and I were playing a song today, and I was holding a sustained note, gently swaying the whammy bar to get a little bit of variety in the song.

Waah-wah-waah-wah-waaaaaaaaaaaaaa-SNAP!

"What the hell?"

The whammy bar went limp, slipping out of my fingers and landing on the controller with a terrible "donk." I freaked out for a moment; my friend was laughing. After that mishap, we finished the song in true rock fashion (minus the whammy bar, of course).

I just ordered a replacement controller from online, so hopefully things will get sorted out soon. I've heard that the customer service is excellent, and I'll be sure to report what happens.

Overall, if you have a lot of friends and/or share a dorm with a bunch of Guitar Hero fans, I recommend Rock Band. The music is really good, and I sometimes find myself singing along whilst getting "into" the song.

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Re: Rock Band

Postby EvanED » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:22 am UTC

Nw0428 wrote:The coolest game ever would be either conductor hero(for the wii) or viola hero(an oxymoron)

Some friends and I have made jokes about there being a need for a Chamber Orchestra game.

phlip wrote:I could get behind Piano Hero if they made it... though thinking of 88 different colours for the falling dots could be a problem...

Synthesia. (Though from what I've heard about it, it's largely for people who already know piano.)

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Vandole
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Vandole » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:28 am UTC

Syphon wrote:
DSDM wrote:....heh. And I can't help but think that GH and Rock Band are kinda like DDR for people too lazy to jump around :D
Not knockin' it, but that thought always just makes me smile.
GH is a lot harder on your one arm than DDR is on your legs.
You'd be surprised. Maniac/Heavy can be really, really hard on them. Guitar Hero on expert? You're still just flicking one wrist up and down and sliding the other arm up and down the controller. Sure, you can get carpal tunnel playing GH, but I've seen some very real injuries in DDR (and not from falling or anything... just exerting themselves past their limits)
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Banksy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:41 pm UTC

Great stuff.
I've had so much use out of guitar hero, even though I do own perferctly good electric and acoustic guitars, and can play them pretty well.
I'm sure we all know people like that. Spoilsports. :p

And really, game I'm looking forward to most is accordian Hero :D
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Domovoi
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Domovoi » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:15 pm UTC

blewis wrote:
Domovoi wrote:Perfect. There's always that guy. I love how some people don't understand that the whole point of many video games is giving you the -idea- that you're doing something awesome without actually having to perform said difficult feat. It's like saying "Why don't you join the SAS and gun down real terrorists?"


Because it's dangerous.
Because I'm morally opposed to killing real people.
Because I can't fly off to Afghanistan for half an hour, gun down terrorists, and go home to bed.
Because there are physical reasons I can't get into the SAS that don't prevent me from wielding a keyboard and mouse.

The only attraction I can think of in favour of the real thing in this case is the increased difficulty.

I fully support the folks who play GH or RB because "it's fun", but I don't buy this particular comparison.


I don't really see how you're disagreeing with me?

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blewis
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Re: Rock Band

Postby blewis » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:22 pm UTC

Domovoi wrote:
blewis wrote:
Domovoi wrote:Perfect. There's always that guy. I love how some people don't understand that the whole point of many video games is giving you the -idea- that you're doing something awesome without actually having to perform said difficult feat. It's like saying "Why don't you join the SAS and gun down real terrorists?"


Because it's dangerous.
Because I'm morally opposed to killing real people.
Because I can't fly off to Afghanistan for half an hour, gun down terrorists, and go home to bed.
Because there are physical reasons I can't get into the SAS that don't prevent me from wielding a keyboard and mouse.

The only attraction I can think of in favour of the real thing in this case is the increased difficulty.

I fully support the folks who play GH or RB because "it's fun", but I don't buy this particular comparison.


I don't really see how you're disagreeing with me?


None of the reasons I've given for playing FPS games instead of joining the SAS apply to playing GH versus a real guitar. In particular, I don't personally consider "difficulty" to be one of the barriers against joining the SAS. As such, I don't find this to be a compelling comparison.

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Re: Rock Band

Postby Sprocket » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:30 am UTC

I saw a guy in Kendall square today wearing a Rock Band baseball hat. Then at the next stop a guy got on carrying the game, I assume he just bought it.
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Scarmiglione » Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:13 am UTC

Hey, I'm new to the forums but am a long time reader.

I have no idea if Randall Munroe reads the forums but in case he does, and to anyone else who may be interested, I also had the same problem with the guitar not clicking. I found that I often lost my tempo due to not being able to hear my playing. So when my replacement guitar had the same infamous "strum bar not working" problem that my first guitar had I cracked it open and fixed the problem myself (which is only a matter of repositioning and tightening the contacts that the strum bar hits) and while I was in there decided to take a look at modding it.

In the end I removed the two foam pads under the strum bar and added two orthodontics rubber bands, the kind that kids wear on their braces, to two hooks on either side of the strum bar that honestly look like they were there for that purpose all along. The result is that the guitar clicks (though not quite as loud as the guitar hero controller) and also returns to center much quicker than with the foam pads. All in all a really easy thing to do.

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Claan22
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Claan22 » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:28 am UTC

Vandole wrote:
Syphon wrote:
DSDM wrote:....heh. And I can't help but think that GH and Rock Band are kinda like DDR for people too lazy to jump around :D
Not knockin' it, but that thought always just makes me smile.
GH is a lot harder on your one arm than DDR is on your legs.
You'd be surprised. Maniac/Heavy can be really, really hard on them. Guitar Hero on expert? You're still just flicking one wrist up and down and sliding the other arm up and down the controller. Sure, you can get carpal tunnel playing GH, but I've seen some very real injuries in DDR (and not from falling or anything... just exerting themselves past their limits)

When I was beating Guitar Hero: Rocks the 80's, trying to beat it on hard, there was one song that I got stuck on. I can't remeber what it was, but it was a pretty popular song. And after getting through about a third of it, my hands were exhausted. Fast strumming + many different power chords (well the GH equivalent) = very tired hands, very fast. Now I'll admit you can definitely get tired from DDR, but you can with Rock Band (or Guitar Hero) too.

Also, I got Rock Band for Christmas, and am LOVING the drums. They're also very tiring, after three songs on easy I was sweating (though it was probably because I was hitting the pads way harder than I should have).

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mandalynn
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Re: Rock Band

Postby mandalynn » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:59 am UTC

Claan22 wrote: (though it was probably because I was hitting the pads way harder than I should have).

This is a new pet peeve of mine. You can barely hear the music over the over-enthusiastic "drumming" :x
You don't need to beat the drum set to death, just tap the pads...

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LDJosh
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Re: Rock Band

Postby LDJosh » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:52 pm UTC

you're obviously not a drummer. it's instinct. :lol:
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Re: Rock Band

Postby ZAM » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:39 pm UTC

aeri wrote:"Those people" exist for every game and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Expecting every friend you have to enjoy a specific activity is unrealistic and it's just as annoying for people who don't like those games to listen to the what can seem like endless rl prattling about heroic efforts in pushing colored buttons. Rock band could be both better and worse in this depending how you setup your 'band'.


I don't care if everyone likes my hobbies. Or even all my friends. I'm fine with people not liking Rock Band or similar titles, in the same way I don't like DDR or Halo. I don't, however, get the mentality of telling DDR fans to learn to dance for real, or Halo fans to go take up paintball. I don't think most people are bothered that there are people who don't like the game. When I tell my friends that I don't like First Person Shooters, they don't complain about me, or rant at me. When I say I don't like South Park, they accept it. Part of it is the attitude. I don't say "Go join the army" or "South Park? Animation is for kids!"

I am rather elitist, but I keep my elitism to myself for the most part.

Rock Band is a slightly different form of escapism, and I have no problem with people not liking it. But when they tell me to play a real instrument, I point out I play several, and that's not why I picked up a fake axe. I'm not a great guitarist; I'll never be mentioned in the same breath as Iommi, May, or Page. Well, maybe facetiously. Anyway, I get by. When I explain to people that I actually do play an instrument, it's often a surprise to them. It seems as though it's never occurred to them that someone might enjoy both. Like Tupac and Chopin, or the Beatles and Monk.

The interesting thing for me about Guitar Hero is that it's actually increased the dexterity of my left hand, and helped my fingers get better at real guitar. I sometimes call it "physical therapy," as it's helping me overcome a handicap that has grossly limited my playing ability since before I ever picked up a guitar. The fact remains, I play the game for different reasons than I play guitar. Same with Rock Band. I know how to sing. But there's some fun in playing a game that more or less boils down to karaoke.

But they don't have to like it. It'd just be nice if they acknowledged that it wasn't just for people who can't play instruments, or folks deluded enough to think they are playing real instruments. I mean, honestly. That latter part is like someone telling you wrestling is fake. Or Santa Claus isn't real. I got that somewhere around 20 years ago, thank you.

Hi, I'm new here. Sorry to get up on a soapbox.

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Re: Rock Band

Postby rrwoods » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:17 pm UTC

Syphon wrote:
DSDM wrote:....heh. And I can't help but think that GH and Rock Band are kinda like DDR for people too lazy to jump around :D
Not knockin' it, but that thought always just makes me smile.


GH is a lot harder on your one arm than DDR is on your legs.

Disagree whole-heartedly. I realize this has been responded to already, but I can't help but throw in my two cents. Playing at similar difficulties, I find DDR to always, always be more tiring on my legs than GH is on my strumming arm (or my fretting hand for that matter, just to cover all the bases). Jordan [Expert] (and even Through the Fire and Flames [Expert]) does not hold a candle to Paranoia Survivor Max [Oni]. Six Expert does not hold a candle to The Legend of Max [Heavy]. If we're allowing other dance games in this discussion, then nothing at all holds a candle to Pandemonium [Expert].
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Re: Rock Band

Postby sxiz » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:01 am UTC

I can't wait until Rock Band comes out for the Wii. I get bored with Guitar Hero but this sounds fun. I don't think it will fit in my room with my drum set though.
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Re: Rock Band

Postby '; DROP DATABASE;-- » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:28 am UTC

Wii does need more music games. Especially when you consider the Wiimote+nunchuck alone could do a decent job of controlling several virtual instruments, such as drums, guitars, trombones, violins, even a conductor's stick. Or you could strap it to your arms to get all 4 appendages moving no penis jokes please in a dancing game.

I'm somewhat disappointed at the number of awesome potential uses of the Wiimote that game developers aren't using, especially relating to strapping them and the nunchucks to your body.
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Re: Rock Band

Postby zelinator » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:09 am UTC

As I type this reply, I can only hope to come off as A. sincere B. intelligent and C. not entirely uptight. I also hope to air my grievances without rambling incoherently.

The first problem I have with the game is the implied "indignity" of guitar players that are so "hurt" by others having fun. I say have your fun. But do not say that you are better than me whenever I can actually pay the song and you can push buttons. What looks better: a guy actually playing "Freebird" on an acoustic at a party, or the guy standing next to him making a bunch of clicky noises on his "axe?"

While I realize this post sounds more and more indignant, I also have a problem with the actual gameplay of GH and all variants. There is little weight given to tapping, hammer-ons/pull-offs (even with new features), bends, and actual string contact. I've tried finger plucking, plectrum, and thumb strumming with little success because the controller doesn't respond to my style of input. The frets give little weight to string movement, and difficult passages passages are made "hard" by merely running up and down the fretboard. Actually knowing how to play "Laid to Rest" helps me little because, as a previous poster mentioned, one has no idea what part will be detailed and what part will be glossed over. I just can't fully grasp the game.

And yes, there is a contingent of musicians around, myself included, that are a little perturbed by the shortcut many gamers have taken to "Rock stardom." Many of us have been honing our skills for years, and a dude with a clicky thing can rock out to "War Pigs" with little effort. Like http://xkcd.com/182/.

Also, I see, as a side effect of GH and RB, a distinctive shift in the future of music. These games could become like MTV, with results positive and negative. On the positive, I rejoice that so many are being drawn back to guitar based music. But in the negative, I see the domination of the games over everyone's music tastes, like in http://xkcd.com/132/. I knew people that never heard of Megadeth, Kansas, Black Sabbath (besides "Iron Man"), and Ozzy Osbourne (besides "Crazy Train") suddenly having a greater appreciation for those artists, but their knowledge still lacks. I am happy that some bands like Suicidal Tendencies, All That Remains, and Strong Bad ("Trogdor") are now known, I worry for the music fans that are missing so much else. I also have been in subscription to Guitar World, a guitar magazine, for the past few years, and I have seen the rise of Guitar Hero songs being transcribed. I'm glad I can perform those songs to the delight of my friends, but I am angry that they only request those songs.

I also have a beef with puppy dogs, cotton candy, and baseball.

I hate my "overuse" of quotations and parentheses (sometimes in combination).

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Re: Rock Band

Postby EvanED » Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:56 am UTC

Claan22 wrote:And after getting through about a third of it, my hands were exhausted. Fast strumming + many different power chords (well the GH equivalent) = very tired hands, very fast. Now I'll admit you can definitely get tired from DDR, but you can with Rock Band (or Guitar Hero) too.

It's a different kind of tired though... DDR exhaustion often comes in the form of being out of breath and wanting to collapse onto the couch. GH or RB exhaustion is more of an anerobic exhaustion... it's more like your arm is tired. That's not all you feel after a while playing GH, but I have never had to stop to catch my breath after a hard GH song.

(I should say I'm not particularly good at GH compared to someone who can play a lot, but I'm not bad either. I can do easier songs on expert and most songs on hard. On Rock Band, I've almost entirely been playing the bass part on hard and expert, and on one of those difficulties I can do all but I think one song where the bass has a much harder part than the lead guitar.)

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Re: Rock Band

Postby NightStar » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:15 pm UTC

Update: we have played RB too much and broken the strummer on the guitar controller. Also, if you completely kick a song's ass on expert, you get five GOLD stars. It's not too hard to do as a single player, but we had three people gold-star several songs together. Needless to say we felt pretty cool, and prompted someone to tell us that we weren't real rock stars, and so we referred them to this comic. :lol:
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Re: Rock Band

Postby sxiz » Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:56 pm UTC

zelinator wrote:I also have a beef with puppy dogs


Oh thank god. I was taking you seriously there for a while.
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Re: Rock Band

Postby Syphon » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:13 pm UTC

alexthesoso wrote:i could never get into guitar hero. see, i have the ultimate response when peopel say, why dont you learn to play a real guitar?

my response, well, i play electric, acoustic, 12 string acoustic, and base. i also play the rebec and the guiterin. whats your point?

heh. but as i was saying, trying to play guitar hero, i kept trying to play to the rythym of the song, and the strums werent quite right on it. also, i played the whammy bar properly, rather than just going nuts with it, which apparently in gh doesnt rack up as many points.

a friend brought over rock band to my bachelor party, and i fell in love. i finally got it, as rb seemed much better about where they have you strum. and, i prefer the lack of clicking.


Whammy bar in GH never increases points, it just makes Star Power go up more on sustained SP notes, whammying it faster doesn't make a difference even then, though. And clicking is good for like Expert. ;o

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Re: Rock Band

Postby taiki » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:12 pm UTC

phlip wrote:I could get behind Piano Hero if they made it... though thinking of 88 different colours for the falling dots could be a problem...


Keyboard Mania

For a bunch of nerds you guys sure are slack on your gaming history.

Anyway, my big complaint about RockBand/GuitarHero is that it completely misses the point about music games that have come before it and that's to play all sorts of music you'd probably never ever care to think about hearing. I really have heard all of the guitar/bass/drum rock I ever want to hear in my life. Where the hell is the jazz? R&B?

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Re: Rock Band

Postby Maseiken » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:45 pm UTC

Right, Setting aside that setting up an actual system capable of simulating Jazz (Which has completly different techniques) The very manner in which the games work has to be scripted, Improvisation would be nigh-on-impossible, OR, very very dull.

Jazz wouldn't work, I don't know about anything else.
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Re: Rock Band

Postby taiki » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:28 pm UTC

Maseiken wrote:Right, Setting aside that setting up an actual system capable of simulating Jazz (Which has completly different techniques) The very manner in which the games work has to be scripted, Improvisation would be nigh-on-impossible, OR, very very dull.

Jazz wouldn't work, I don't know about anything else.


Like playing pre-scripted rock's anymore fun? My point being is that the guitar and drums are used for other genres of music. Besides, Jazz isn't entirely improvisation either.

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Re: Rock Band

Postby EtzHadaat » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:34 pm UTC

I think there are already people working on AI that can write music, Jazz Hero seems like a decent application of that technology.


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