0370: "Redwall"

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theyellowhobbit
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby theyellowhobbit » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:10 am UTC

Fonkey wrote:
Black ICE wrote:Why do people protest against the harry potter books anyways? what the logic behind it? Who could find it offensive? (No offense if you do :lol: )


I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian environment, so I can say with a high degree of certitude that the vast majority of potter-protesters have never even looked inside one of the books. It's just a moralistic reaction resulting from a narrow understanding of the term "witchcraft," as well as a general illiteracy of things like fiction and metaphor.


Oddly enough, I know a few Ultra-Orthodox Jews who read the Harry Potter books. I was actually at their house the day the 7th book came out, and as soon as Shabbat ended they picked up their copies at the bookstore, and everybody started reading them.
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby EOTistatron » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:24 am UTC

I suppose it's a bit repetitive to say I thought I was the only one who read these books, but who am I to avoid common themes? As I recall, the ones I liked best were the ones that took place away from, usually before Redwall was created: Mossflower, Martin the Warrior (made me cry), etc. I first read them when I was really young, but stopped after a while. Tried to come back later, Hedgeloam I think, but it was too... nicey, I guess. They're great books for kids, though. Assuming the allegory isn't considered of an inappropriate nature, the violence is always enjoyable, and the riddles are fun at that age.

On warcries: it's pronounced "yoo-lay-lee-uh," right? And does anyone remember what the Shrew's was?

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Avram » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:26 am UTC

Oh, there are definitely many members of fundamentalist religious groups who are avid readers of Harry Potter books. Several of my cousins, for example. I think I've detected a slow change in the opinions of the evangelical Christian population over the past five years.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby rockin2the70s » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:37 am UTC

I absolutely loved the books in middle school. Even now, when I'm bored, I'll pick one up and start reading. I never really paid enough attention to realize they were all the same, not that I care now anyway.

Outcast ftw!
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby JayDee » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:04 am UTC

Triss Hawkeye wrote:You can tell I loved Redwall - the first half of my screen-name everywhere (in fact my whole screen-name till I added Hawkeye a year or so ago) is Triss, who was my favourite heroine.
Aha! That's the one Redwall book I own. Triss! Should have figured someone would mention it sooner or later.
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby jjane » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:10 am UTC

i have no idea what redwall is (shame on me! :oops: )
but i laughed long & hard at the "jinx".
so i may not be a nerd, but at least i'm a dork.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby charmuska » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:21 am UTC

all I really have to add to this is...
wot's a nabbey?
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Kin
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Kin » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:27 am UTC

Um, no raptor points (Haha, "No Raptor" points) for always agreeing with Randall. I'm not to say that everyone who feels Redwall was repetitive always agrees with him, but it's a little disheartening that I hadn't seen many defensive posts.

That is, because I believe Redwall was not particularly repetitive. This is taking in account to many things. First and foremost, of course, they all took part in the same world. As with most "sequels" of anything, this already limits the possible scenarios. Also important is that these were all intended as to various degrees warrior (with a few expections) novels. Thus, if you wanted something else besides redwall world, and fighting actions fallen hero rises again, or rises from base ground, then you would read or write another book. For being an element of "Redwall" this shouldn't really be considered repetition.

What set the books apart from another was their characters (their personality, their situation), the puzzles, and the interactions between characters. And the cool guys that died :(. Those were different.

While it might bore me now (yearning for more complexity), they were great when I was younger :)
Clearly though in the KD' Randall was looking back. So it's not so far off to point out there's at least some sort of "Pattern" in the books. Hopefully, though, you noticed them when you were reading...And went out to buy the next one you hadnt read after that.





REDDDWAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby armorsmith42 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:29 am UTC

I have said "wotWot?" ever since reading the hare say it in the original Redwall?

Does anyone find it odd that you would never find, an entire nation of hares? Or even a city?

Goddammit, I want hares flying eagles, defending their island homeland against the invasions from an army of rats flying ravens !

And then of course, four young hares, sent to the countryside to escape the bombing, would wander into a magical shoebox that transplanted them into a world where it was always muddy, but never Easter.

Meanwhile the professor with whom they are staying begins a tale about the adventures of a half-hare who has to fight a dragon along with 13 chipmunks and a magic-wielding mouse who only stays with this party for half of the quest.

And then the magic-wielding mouse finds himself a steamboat capta---

Ok, I'll stop.
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby ohnoesmilk » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:53 am UTC

cORilliEN wrote:Did anyone else ever want to try cooking up some Hotroot soup, Deeper 'n Ever Pie, or Skilly and Duff?


I tried making some sort of drink (made of lime, soda, and something else) and the scones. They have a cookbook though, and i'd like to try making some...

did anyone try making a gullwacker? mine failed and was made out of white rope stuff.
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Matt » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:57 am UTC

The descriptions of food, man.

The Descriiiiiiiiiiptions Of Fooooooooooooooood
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby rfts » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:58 am UTC

I've also been completely obsessed with Redwall throughout my life, reading the entire series, and most of them twice. Yet, I've noticed the recent books have almost exact storylines as previous books, i.e., Triss and High Rhulain. Also, anyone notice that the sidekick/minor party character always dies in every book? I mean seriously, just to name a couple:
Spoiler:
Methuselah/Mortimer in Redwall, Urthstripe in Salamandastron, Rose in Martin the Warrior, Galedeep in Bellmaker, Craklyn in Pearls, Russa in Long Patrol, Jukka and Fleetscut in Lord Brocktree, Cregga in Taggerung, Sarobando and Bragoon in Loamhedge, and Cuthbert in High Rhulain. Thanks Wikipedia in refreshing my memory.

But anyways, I liked the theme of convergent multiple storylines in some of them, such as Salamandastron (which happens to also be my favorite book).

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby prosfilaes » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:35 am UTC

lucy wrote:Tyris and Cortle, I am not against deconstruction per say, only when it has the power to kill (or seriously cripple) beloved childhood memorabilia. As Triss Hawkeye says, those things don't matter when you're a kid, you don't notice all that shit.


Well, exactly. On one hand, kids don't notice all that shit, so why does it matter if we deeply analyze it? On the other, I'm not sure it's true that kids don't, at some level, notice all that; even kids realize that one species is always good, and the other bad, even if they don't understand the implications of that. We internalize a lot of things from our environment that aren't said, even things that go against what is being said, which is why it's important that someone is looking at that.

From a different level, we deconstruct things because it's fun and intellectually driving. The levels of thought going on there are at a much higher level than just passively enjoying the books, and can frequently keep something interesting long after the surface text has lost interest. If that's not fun to you, then you don't have to play. If it will kill beloved childhood memorabilia for you, then stay away, but it's a positive thing to many of the deconstructers.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby XilDarkz » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:41 am UTC

Kin wrote:Um, no raptor points (Haha, "No Raptor" points) for always agreeing with Randall. I'm not to say that everyone who feels Redwall was repetitive always agrees with him, but it's a little disheartening that I hadn't seen many defensive posts.

That is, because I believe Redwall was not particularly repetitive. This is taking in account to many things. First and foremost, of course, they all took part in the same world. As with most "sequels" of anything, this already limits the possible scenarios. Also important is that these were all intended as to various degrees warrior (with a few expections) novels. Thus, if you wanted something else besides redwall world, and fighting actions fallen hero rises again, or rises from base ground, then you would read or write another book. For being an element of "Redwall" this shouldn't really be considered repetition.

What set the books apart from another was their characters (their personality, their situation), the puzzles, and the interactions between characters. And the cool guys that died :(. Those were different.

While it might bore me now (yearning for more complexity), they were great when I was younger :)
Clearly though in the KD' Randall was looking back. So it's not so far off to point out there's at least some sort of "Pattern" in the books. Hopefully, though, you noticed them when you were reading...And went out to buy the next one you hadnt read after that.





REDDDWAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

Even if they were all Redwall with only the character names changed, I would still read them. I liked the story at the time, I liked the way of his telling, I liked the characters that he crafted. Maybe repetitiveness is negative for some, but I'd say its not necessarily so.

Just saying cause your post was kind of based on the fact that Redwall series = repetitive and that was a bad thing.

prosfilaes wrote:Well, exactly. On one hand, kids don't notice all that shit, so why does it matter if we deeply analyze it? On the other, I'm not sure it's true that kids don't, at some level, notice all that; even kids realize that one species is always good, and the other bad, even if they don't understand the implications of that. We internalize a lot of things from our environment that aren't said, even things that go against what is being said, which is why it's important that someone is looking at that.

From a different level, we deconstruct things because it's fun and intellectually driving. The levels of thought going on there are at a much higher level than just passively enjoying the books, and can frequently keep something interesting long after the surface text has lost interest. If that's not fun to you, then you don't have to play. If it will kill beloved childhood memorabilia for you, then stay away, but it's a positive thing to many of the deconstructers.


I completely agree with you. QFT?
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Windsor » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:47 am UTC

Yeah, I was at a wedding reception Saturday night and got into a book discussion with two young cousins about Redwall. Weird.

I didn't read Taggerung or the ones after it but I immensely enjoyed the rest of them (except Outcast of Redwall). They weren't that repetitive, there just weren't as many plots as books. There's Defend Redwall, Defend Salamandastron, Fight the Pirates, Fight the Pirates on Land, Explore Redwall's Predecessors, etc. I mean, compare the individual books in the Bellmaker and Matthias arcs.

The complicated riddles get to me though. And the lack of any mention of religion even though in Pearls of Lutra (my favorite) they raided an abandoned church...

I still love the series though. And Jurassic Park? A few years ago I wrote a Redwall cyberpunk short story. With elements of Jennifer Government. I don't think anyone here can trump that, though I'd love to see it.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby cephalopod9 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:49 am UTC

Aw, Martin talking to Aragorn is just adorable!
.
XCKDRocks wrote:http://redwall.wikia.com

is a decent site for those looking to find out more or revisit their past. :)

I thoroughly enjoyed this comic.
Thank you for taking up most of my evening...

I got to hear Brian Jacques speak and got a copy of Mariel of Redwall signed a while before The Long Patrol was released, so that'd be 10 or 11 years ago. (...dang, it's 2008) He seemed like a pretty neat guy, and talked about meeting people with accents, talking to kindergardners (infant department, I think he called it), and writing in general.

Except for The Long Patrol and The Bell Maker, I think I've read up through Lord Brocktree. Somewhere about middle school I lost interest I guess, no particular reason. Although I did introduce my younger brother to them a few years ago.

To be fair, I think a lot of stories with fictional races have some under current of racism, and mice and weasels are of different order, family, genus and specie.

I am intrigued and perhaps horrified at the talk of fanfiction. (Rats on raptors?)
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Kin » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:58 am UTC

XilDarkz wrote:
Even if they were all Redwall with only the character names changed, I would still read them. I liked the story at the time, I liked the way of his telling, I liked the characters that he crafted. Maybe repetitiveness is negative for some, but I'd say its not necessarily so.

Just saying cause your post was kind of based on the fact that Redwall series = repetitive and that was a bad thing.



How the hell did you get that reading of my post? I gave the opposite! It was a rebuttal to that claim that it even was repetitive.

Anyway,
Cool. So you like/liked Redwall too.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Aerol » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:50 am UTC

I miss those books a lot. Sure they were predictable but that was part of the fun. I think I might have to dust off Mossflower and give it another read.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Matt » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:58 am UTC

The complicated riddles get to me though. And the lack of any mention of religion even though in Pearls of Lutra (my favorite) they raided an abandoned church...


Not to mention in every book they live in an abbey
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Antimatter Spork » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:35 am UTC

I read the Redwall books when I was younger, but I think he's written more since I stopped. (Not that I remember where I stopped, but I haven't seen any references in this thread to books that I haven't read, so whatever). I knew they were repetitive and formulaic, and I loved them anyway. I'd have to say my favorites were the ones that broke the formula somewhat (Legend of Luke, Mossflower, Salamandastron, and a couple of others IIRC)

I think the comic is spot-on in the criticisms, though I'd never really thought of the racist aspects before. It's actually pretty blatant, now that I think about it.

Still, the descriptions of food. THE DESCRIPTIONS OF FOOD. I could never read any of those books without getting hungry.
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Maseiken » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:37 am UTC

Matt wrote:The descriptions of food, man.

The Descriiiiiiiiiiptions Of Fooooooooooooooood

Oh man...
I want some Deeper'n'ever Poi.
The Shrews always had fantastic food....
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Kewangji » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:03 am UTC

I first heard of Redwall when I was 12 or 13. Thought the books were horrible, didn't read much of them (like, a chapter in one book) and don't remember anything except mice.
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Transmutable » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:24 am UTC

Redwall is the reason I'm a geek. I can remember this kid in my third grade class at the book fair telling me to read Marlfox. And that was it, game over, I'm a geek. Redwall was the first thing I was fannishly obsessive about, the first message boards I read, the first RP I participated in, and yes, the first screen names I had. I think one of my passwords to something is Redwall based still.

So thanks David, I'm all your fault. <3

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby angel_jean » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:12 am UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:To be fair, I think a lot of stories with fictional races have some under current of racism, and mice and weasels are of different order, family, genus and specie.

Hmm. Maybe a lot do. But they don't have to, it isn't a characteristic. Terry Pratchett's Discworld is a counterexample (I will go as far as to say that it is an *excellent* counterexample, particularly in Thud!, as well as being an excellent series). Besides, I can choose my fiction.

And I have to wonder if children are affected by the way authors portray 'reactions to difference'. Admission: I haven't read the Redwall books, in fact had never heard of them until this comic. If they plagiarise plots as the comic says, and in addition attach ideas of morality/immorality to the idea of physical difference, then it would be a series I'd never seek out or buy for my children. Right or wrong, that's my feeling. Or, on reflection, I'd at least teach them critical thinking first.

Additional context: this is someone who sorely wants her husband to read The Golden Compass and would buy it for her children at the appropriate age.
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby mable » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:03 pm UTC

Redwall literature always focuses on repetative ancient legends, because the urban decay of present day Redwall is just to painful to dwell on.

Ask yourself, is it just conincidence that:

Randall Munroe's webcomic

is an anagram of:

Redwall Moms burn cocaine

???

Oh, hang on, just looked it up in the "Big book of things that are coincidences and things that are not."
Apparantly it is a coincidence.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Arancaytar » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:02 pm UTC

I never read Redwall, although it was in our school library. At the time I was more interested in more traditional fantasy like Tolkien - an entire world populated by talking animals just felt too childish, somehow.
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Rikushix » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:22 pm UTC

I've been reading xkcd for a while, but I registered on the forums just to respond to today's comic.

It's slightly embarrassing reading about how people think it's very "repetitive" and whatnot, considering that from about age 11 to about age 15 I think I have read the entire series 50 times through. I'm dead serious. I was obsessed.

I agree with accusations of repetitiveness in the sense that there are specific elements that Jacques uses that are so obviously intrinsic to the plot of each story...i.e. the riddles, the food descriptions, etc. Specific things like that. However, not only were all of these parts very satisfying to indulge in as a reader (seriously, did you ever tire of hearing about their damn feasts? I thought not), but the overall story had a presentation and character that separated itself from each of the other books, in turn.

Also, favorite ones and all that. Mine would have to be The Bellmaker or the Taggerung, no one seems to have mentioned that as their favorite, though Mossflower is by far the most epic, and Pearls of Lutra, Legend of Luke, Marlfox are also really good. After the Taggerung (or, arguably, Triss) the series kinda lost it's lustre after that...everything seemed gimmicky all of a sudden. Maybe that was just me growing up.

Any thoughts?

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby EtzHadaat » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:50 pm UTC

armorsmith42 wrote:Goddammit, I want hares flying eagles, defending their island homeland against the invasions from an army of rats flying ravens !


I starting writing my own Redwall book (I wasn't aware of "fanfiction" at the time) involving a fort built into a cliff full of squirrel archers who rode hawks with one hare leader. I think I stopped because I wrote like 80 riddles for how they were supposed to find the next hare leader and not one that I liked. Anyways, I called it "Raptraroc", basically a combination of "raptor" and "roc". I didn't even think of flying vermin, all the real violence took place in caves and such where the hawks couldn't go. Although basically the reason I felt I had to write it was the mental image of 500 hawk-riding squirrels with enough organization to simultaneously shoot 500 rats by planning with mice, rats, and otters to fight them into a loose grid formation, which I never even got to.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Rook » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:14 pm UTC

I read something like 20-30 or more of the Redwall books when I was about 12-16, but I never got through all of them. Partly I stopped due to a difficulty in actually finding certain books, but after the 25 mark, they all got a bit samey.

Before that though, it was an addiction. Raced through 'em like there was no tomorrow :)

I question 'racist undertones' though. Different species were more used to represent different personalities/character archetypes. Occasionally there would be breaks from this (I only vaguely recall, not read them since then). But whatever.
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Kerr Avon » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:21 pm UTC

As a wee girl I met Brian Jacques, at a book signing, and I seem to remember him telling me I share a name with one of his favourite ever Moles. Yes, he thought that'd actually please me, bless him. It's bad when you excitedly go to your favourite author's book convention and end up humouring him elderly grandparent style, but he signed my special edition Redwall, so overall it was worth it.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Aurora Firestorm » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:49 pm UTC

It's like Animorphs. Now you think it sucks, but I bet when you were younger, you thought it was awesome. When I was a kid, I thought the Animorphs was the greatest thing since the Internet (and possibly better than, since all I listened to were cheap MIDIs I found on websites and took 10 minutes to load a web page made solely of JPEGs and text). Now that I'm in college, I realize that A) Applegate was just milking the franchise by throwing in crazier ideas by the moment that had nothing to do with the real scenario, B) the entire 60-odd book series could be summed up in a nice duo or trilogy because most of it was made of "sidequest" books, and C) her ghostwriter -- for shame! -- sucked, the quality of the writing as a whole failed spectacularly, and the books could be written by any fanfiction writer who can write more than Mary Sues.

But I still look back with fondness and remember how awesome the idea of morphing kids was. I've never read Redwall, but I'm tempted to try.


Also, where's the racism in Lord of the Rings? Maybe it's because I haven't seen the movies and read the books (skimmed second and third -- he goes on forever!) long ago, but...I didn't see any obvious parallels to real life in that regard.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby xqby » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:07 pm UTC

Aurora Firestorm wrote:Also, where's the racism in Lord of the Rings? Maybe it's because I haven't seen the movies and read the books (skimmed second and third -- he goes on forever!) long ago, but...I didn't see any obvious parallels to real life in that regard.


I don't think most people actually think that Tolkien was a racist, but you can make spurious arguments about it fairly easily. It gets done as a joke a lot, like: "Percentage of protagonists in Fellowship who are white: 100. Meanwhile the black-skinned antagonists and their black crow spies and their black glass seeing ball inhabit their black towers and perform black magic. One would have to be blind to miss the symbolism." (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/50reasons.html). Pretty much any time an author portrays a race of people as being evil on a genetic basis you can accuse them of racist symbolism.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Windsor » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:34 pm UTC

Well, they get around the religion in the abbey thing by having them dedicated to healing any wounded creature that happens to stop by, and dragging wounded creatures they find back to the abbey, kind of like real-life abbeys did. There doesn't need to be any worship in that setting. I know I'm analyzing this one, but come on, there's thousands of pages in this universe. We deserve explanations.

And I still don't think Animorphs sucks. Every now and then I'll check the children's section of a library for whatever Animorphs they still have left (usually never more than ten) and read one right there. Nice way to spend an hour, reliving swinging through the jungle with Jake. Or Elfangor's undeniably cool Star Trek-style background.

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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Rikushix » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:52 pm UTC

The whole "they live in an abbey, why don't they practice some sort of religion" question always irked me. I understand not only wanting to delve deeper into the background of information of fictional characters (look at the furor Rowling created when she outed Dumbledore) as well as wanting an outcome that adheres to the definition of the word (namely "abbey" or "church"), but what really annoys me is how people have the automatic assumption that anthropomorphic mice, squirrels, voles and moles MUST have some sort of system of religion that they practice. Call me biased (I'm agnostic), but that smacks of ignorance, in my eyes.

The only truly important thing is that Jacques has said, repeatedly, "There is no religion practiced by the mice of Redwall. None. Please stop asking or I will be forced to tickle your eyeball with this here cutlass". In Redwall (and Mossflower, to some degree) the book was much more "human" and contained several parallels. After that Jacques made sure the spirit of the series conveyed that it was a fantasy world and separate from our own.

Admission: I haven't read the Redwall books, in fact had never heard of them until this comic. If they plagiarise plots as the comic says, and in addition attach ideas of morality/immorality to the idea of physical difference, then it would be a series I'd never seek out or buy for my children.


And as far as racism goes, of course it's understandable and laid out in simple terms: mice, squirrels, otters, hares, shrews and badgers are good, while stoats, weasels, ferrets, rats, foxes and wildcats are bad. Yes, in a literary sense, it's formulaic, if you're into that whole "I DEMAND CHANGE!" sort of thing, and Jacques does definitely personify the latter group as being inherently evil, but only because of the latter group's actions. The important thing is that for the most part, the average woodlander is naturally trustworthy; most of the characters, unless battlehardened, would rather act friendly, or run away, if they knew what to do, than declare all rats, ferrets, and stoats as scum that needed to be eradicated. Any "good" character that is shown to be naturally hostile towards the "vermin" is not shown in a positive light. Take the badger lords for example: some defenders of Salamandastron declare any vermin they see to be instantly killed...this is not seen as a necessary virtue. Jacques clearly characterizes such figures to be of ambivalent morals that sometimes, the reader may not find appropriate. This is even more easily conveyed in the Badger Lords that become consumed with Bloodlust; when they fall into their unstoppable rage-fuelled anger, there is no stopping them, but this is seen as a tragedy, not a glorious action that ensures that all rats and foxes are killed easier.

If Redwall was a series where the inherently "good" characters always assumed that the inherently "bad" characters were actually bad, and out to do them harm, then I could see the "racist undertones". That's discrimination. But Redwall does no more than create a system of easily identifiable protagonists and antagonists, and falls back onto that formula. Formulaic? I guess, if you don't like that sort of thing. Racist? No, it isn't. And sometimes Jacques even throws us for a loop, occasionally...just take a look at Blaggut from The Bellmaker!

Point is, angel_jean, it is not my business how you raise your children; I'm simply in a discussion mood today. But I felt I had to defend Redwall, despite my bias, because if I were a father of children and worried about some books they might be reading, I would take a look at them myself, good moral judge that I am, and decide if it was right for them, rather than assume, from some web-comic on teh intarwebs, that it's some horrid immoral series, one that is unfit for the "dibbuns"!

RaisedByMongrels
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby RaisedByMongrels » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:01 pm UTC

It's like Animorphs. Now you think it sucks, but I bet when you were younger, you thought it was awesome.


I was wondering if any of the Rewall fans also read Animorphs. I was obsessed with that series, too. I owned all 60 or so of them, and read each one at least five times.

Then I found out that she used ghost writers for most of them. She only wrote the first 25 or so, which explains how they came out with a new one like once a month.

Looking back, I can definitely see that the bulk of the series was nothing more than a money machine. It's a shame, because I think Applegate is has a very interesting and unconventional writing style, and the storyline was fantastic (except the ending. Man, was that awful.)

Did anyone read her other series, Everworld? It was better, but it just kind of stopped after 12 books without a real ending.

Rikushix
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Rikushix » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:31 pm UTC

I only found out a few days ago that she used ghostwriters for like half of her books. I didn't really read them anyway (although I had a few of the companion books) but somehow that didn't surprise me.

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Triss Hawkeye
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Triss Hawkeye » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:23 pm UTC

Redwall encouraged me to write, and even now I've still got a Redwall-inspired story plan with anthropomorphism set on the high seas with pirates and sea monsters. The significant differences from Redwall however, is that all the species can be good or evil (there is, for example, a bad squirrel pirate, yes) and the books would be limited to five. I dug it out a while back and I'm half considering just writing it and seeing where it leads...

XCKDRocks
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby XCKDRocks » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:45 pm UTC

Admission: I haven't read the Redwall books, in fact had never heard of them until this comic. If they plagiarise plots as the comic says, and in addition attach ideas of morality/immorality to the idea of physical difference, then it would be a series I'd never seek out or buy for my children.


I'd like to comment on this.

The world of Redwall, as defined by Jacques, is black and white. Baddies are bad and goodies are good. There have, in fact, been exceptions to this rule, so it is not completely strict.

However the book also associates talking and wearing clothes and wielding swords with animals! :shock: :D

The book does not plagiarize plots, Jacques has said multiple times he's never read LOTR, and I trust him on that. It's a series of near 20 books; the first one was originally for a group of blind school children and not even expected to be published!

Give the first 2-3 books a read; the first one is significantly different than the others. For an adult, it's very quick, and you may like it. ;)

Rikushix
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby Rikushix » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:47 pm UTC

XCKDRocks wrote:
Admission: I haven't read the Redwall books, in fact had never heard of them until this comic. If they plagiarise plots as the comic says, and in addition attach ideas of morality/immorality to the idea of physical difference, then it would be a series I'd never seek out or buy for my children.


I'd like to comment on this.

The world of Redwall, as defined by Jacques, is black and white. Baddies are bad and goodies are good. There have, in fact, been exceptions to this rule, so it is not completely strict.

However the book also associates talking and wearing clothes and wielding swords with animals! :shock: :D

The book does not plagiarize plots, Jacques has said multiple times he's never read LOTR, and I trust him on that. It's a series of near 20 books; the first one was originally for a group of blind school children and not even expected to be published!

Give the first 2-3 books a read; the first one is significantly different than the others. For an adult, it's very quick, and you may like it. ;)


That was well summarized. A lot better summarized than how many words I fit into what I tried to say ;)

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shortchar
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Re: "Redwall" discussion

Postby shortchar » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:55 pm UTC

I always think Randall Munroe and I can never have any more things in common, and then he goes and writes a comic about yet ANOTHER thing I used to be obsessed with! It's really frightening!

I definitely loved Pearls of Lutra best, because it had a greater concentration of hidden riddles than the other ones. And I'm pretty sure Triss was my favorite character out of all the books (she was the black squirrel, right?)
"Life - and I don't suppose I'm the first to make this comparison - is a disease: sexually transmitted, and invariably fatal" (Neil Gaiman).


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