0377: "Journal 2"

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double entendre
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby double entendre » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:46 am UTC

krynd wrote:We all see what we want to see, no matter what we're looking at.

Indeed.

krynd wrote:For instance, de seems intent to denounce 90% of the Intertubez as misogynic.

No, I said that digg was misogynistic, and that most sci/tech geek areas of the internet (excluding xkcd fora excluding this forum, apparently) have a higher proportion of males than females.

krynd wrote:While that view is to be respected, I must disagree. As spork said, most of the comments were satirical.

So is "Pix Plz".

krynd wrote: Even if they weren't, they don't represent any real mass of people. Semi-social networks like the standard news aggregates (Digg, /., Technorati, etc) and full social networks (MySpace, Flickr, Facebook, etc) don't represent society. They merely represent the loudest, most self-deluded, conniving, and often lonliest people in the world. Do you honestly think someone with adequate social skills would have 5000 friends on MySpace? What about the uber-nerd on /. who always knows the right thing to say?

Internet communication is flawed compared to face-to-face contact. Online, you can live in Malibu have near infinite time to search Wikipedia (if you're IMming someone, just say you were AFK for some reason). You can re-read your post dozens of times, practically guaranteeing that you will make a funny post without unduly offending someone. You can only be as wrong as you want to be. In the real world, you have one shot, no time-outs, and worse yet, you give off constant subtle cues as to your real meaning. If you take "too long" to answer a question online, it's called lag. In the real world: lying (or at least, suspicious).

It seems you tend to confuse a few loudmouths with public opinion. If I were to stand on my soapbox and scream "Emacs is better than Vi!", does that make it true? I'd have my share of people who agreed with me, and a few who'd pull out the old "that OS needs a text editor" routine. Still, it doesn't mean Emacs is the better text editor. It's simply better suited for some things that Vi isn't.

I don't think I have said anything in this thread linking digg opinion to general public opinion.

Originally, I was trying to make a point that you can often tell a person's gender online. I also said that most geek sci/tech fora have a male majority. Obviously, I do not think that the digg gender ratio is representative of the gender ratio in real life.

krynd wrote: Your digg reference did indeed point to the most satirical posts. Further, the topic at hand was one that would make many people threatened: The idea that you are essentially irrelevent, specifically by technology you helped create.

Imagine if one day you go to work, and your boss says, "Sorry, don't need you today. Some machine's doing it for you". So, you go home, but your partner decides s/he met someone at work who they "just love more than you". So you go to the pub, but the barkeep's been replaced with a self-serve. Throw some change in the machine, your mug under the nozzle, and press a button for what size you want. Then, you go to the doctor for your massive hangover, and he "upgrades" your eyes and ears for you (do you need them? Just get a machine to do it for you). Ad infinitum...

Ultimately, we can all be replaced, and it is that fear that some of the digg'ers were talking about. So, kindly forgive the men for their initial fright, you'd probably be scared too if someday you were found to be irrelevent (yes, I know I'm greatly exaggerating the article). Have you ever watched the movie "Fight Club"? It deals with the issue you bring up, in a rather interesting way too.

Fear isn't a good excuse for poor thinking and scapegoating.

krynd wrote:As far as the distinction between "creepy" and not, I'd say something as harmless as "What's your name?" is indeed harmless. You're not under any obligation to give a real name. Besides, knowing someone's name (real or not) brings a more personal level to the conversation. Yes, if they ask you it before a conversation has started, then fine, it is creepy. But if it happens later on, I don't see what's wrong with it.

Yes, if it happens later on, it wouldn't be creepy.

krynd wrote:Likewise when someone asks you for your number/IM, you don't have to give your real one out. I'm somewhat well known IRL for being very hesitant about giving out information (even my closest friends often don't know more about me than one of my disposable e-mail accounts). Therefore, what basis is your paranoia, well... based? Not everyone is out to stalk you,

Obviously, only like 1% of people in public places are creeps and 99% are normal, but you have to understand that for most females, the people that randomly try to interact with you in public are not representative of the general population. The sample of people who try to talk to you are biased towards social people, people who want something from you (out-of-town people who need directions), other people who want something from you (panhandlers), and other people who want something from you (creeps).

krynd wrote:just that creepy kid from next door who keeps walking past your window and staring. Staring with his beady little eyes, until he decides one day to break into your house, put cameras throughout it, and watch you 24/7. The only protection is a mass signal disruptor. Quick, to the EMP generator!

lol

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby krynd » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:50 am UTC

I've always found xkcd's comic discussion posts to be somewhat equally (because I can't confirm it via the anonymous nature of the Interblag) mixed. Guess I have to start counting again... Or just write a Python script. If I only had some sort of meta-tag....

// WARNING: not a quote. Just a paraphrasing. Back away from the ban button...
Double Entendre wrote:99% of the population is good. 1% are creepy... Creepy people ask for directions (WTF????? I'm double-Mapquesting my directions now (to AND from))

I try not to let myself be bothered by the morons who try to talk to me. In fact, I had a rather fun conversation today with a customer (complete stranger) while I was cleaning outside the restrooms (I always thought that outside the bathrooms were still covered under the "silence rule"). We talked about things and stuff, and just mindless drivel for (what seemed to me like) hours on end. After a while I was starting to wonder if she was going to invite me to her house for tea and scones to celebrate our long-winded conversation (seriously had to been 20 minutes, for no real reason. Wasn't even the type of person you'd expect to be lonely enough to talk to someone like me for longer than 30 seconds). Yes, that wasn't creepy at all... I still wonder if she's staring out my window. Better gather the flash grenades...

Giving people directions doesn't bother me. Especially since if I don't know what they're talking about, I'll just direct them to some random place I hate (usually a store known for poor service) for further directions (double points for pointing them the opposite of where they might want to go).

Double Entendre wrote:Fear isn't a good excuse for poor thinking and scapegoating

Agreed, but you must admit, Hitler found it very effective (gahhH! Godwin's Law!).

Well, since I invoked Godwin's Law, I'll end this now... Before the thread segfaults. Good game, see you next game.
Dangermouse wrote:I hope this doesn't mirror too much of what you've read--and btw, you should read less and do more. No one takes good pictures or runs a marathon sitting on their couch surfing the internet.


WCG xkcd team

russianspy1234
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby russianspy1234 » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:20 am UTC

Hitler's Law:
As the length of a thread increases, the probability that someone will mention Godwin approaches 1.

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby scarletmanuka » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:01 am UTC

savage wrote:
scarletmanuka wrote:
savage wrote:DO WE HAVE A NAME? http://xkcd.com/177/ :mrgreen:

I don't think you can assume that there is only one woman in the xkcdverse with dark, shoulder-length hair. And since we don't have any other features by which to identify her...

clearly you're missing the big green grinning face there. Also you probably don't get the cryptography reference in strip 177.

Actually, I did (though I think I had to look it up the first time I saw that comic). And I did see the smilie, but I also saw what looked like a bunch of excited shouting...

savage wrote:Also I was referring more to the attitude shown than the 'hur, black haired girl stick figure'.

I'd say that attitude is even less distinctive for female xkcd characters than hair style.

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muteKi
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby muteKi » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:18 am UTC

2 options:

1. Guy does not actively go after girl.
2. Guy actively goes after girl.

Which one, if either were to become a plot point would have a lot to do with the general personality of the guy.

2. is effectively admitting defeat. While he would have the outward appearance of a level of superiority and contempt for some others, this would mean that he does indeed search for companionship just as much as the women that he deals with on the Subway. The girl could not truly understand him from one simple encounter like this unless she was actually probing him for a deeper look later. Should he be going after her, that would suggest that below his seemingly dastardly exterior, he hides a very sensitive core that longs to have something to belong and relate to, and can't find it, until now. Alternately, it shows his insecurities by proving that he must take back what is his, rather than allow her to walk out. He -HAS- to be the best in his mind?

1. however is the guy sticking to his usual guns. "The girl cannot and does not understand me!" he says, for first of all, there has been no prior encounter between the two (presumably) and she does not realize with what tenacity he can stick to his guns. It also means that her encounter has had no effect on him, and getting past any initial dismay or shock, would mean that SHE has failed in her attempt and is in fact lesser. There is thus no reason to go after her -- basically a negative feedback loop of sorts. And should he never see her again? Why should he care, for he has no reason to 1-up her, as he has demonstrated to himself, the more important thing, perhaps, in his mind, that she did not beat him but could only claim a minor scratch on him! Also, that means that he'd never have to put up with that annoying bitch again.

Either choice seems equally likely to me right now.


Were such an event to occur to me, I think I would put it out of my mind for the most part but likely never forget the experience, as an encounter of, "Hmmm... well I guess I'm not completely undefeatable. But close enough! Ah, now it is time to set buildings on fire and set up a sniping area on other buildings nearby as the others get evacuated!"

Yes, that's an evil scheme I've had in my head for QUITE some time now, though I admit it isn't 100% in keeping with the style of the Guy we know and love.
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby rqm » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:34 am UTC

The Enrichment Center takes this opportunity to remind [subject name here] that the girl that pwnd the classhole is -by her own judgment- an even worse classhole, and should be thrown into an Aperture Science Emergency Intelligence Incinerator, given the opportunity.

Yes, I played it.

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby functionally_stupid » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:26 pm UTC

Back to the "What the hell, misanthropes?!":

Hmm. There are many ways to cope with misanthropy; one way is to never ever go out in public again. Another is to actively crush people's hopes and dreams. The thought train goes kind of like this: "Human beings are the suckiest things ever. I hate them the way they are. The only way they could possibly change is by being hurt, and I definitely want them to change, so I'll hurt them."

Alternately: "Being around humans makes me insanely miserable. I'm lonely. I'll make other people insanely miserable, too, so I'm not alone."

And even further: "These people are weak and pathetic and horrible. All of them. That makes me so *angry*. Maybe if I attack those weaknesses, they'll stop being so weak, and stop irritating me."

Of course, there's the standard Schadenfreude - taking delight in the misfortunes of others - but I like to pick at things and go into greater depth. Most people have mild sociopathic tendencies; it's quite common for people to find casual cruelty hilarious, even if they wouldn't act that way themselves. For the true misanthrope, the experience is somewhat different; rather than just being funny, cruelty to humans is *satisfying* and appropriate and entails a kind of relief.

I'm quite mildly misanthropic, myself; I hate people in general. But I'm also a rather (stable) schizotypal; not *much* of me is misanthropic, only a little, so it's completely controlled. Rather than being a hobby or a dangerous obsession, my misanthopry - a finely tuned, keen sense of *exactly* how to hurt someone the most - is more like a weapon in my arsenal, one that I do not use. (I'm dichotomous; a small part of me loathes people, but the rest of me *loves* people. I can't stand seeing people in pain.)

:D Like I've said: I'm just completely nuts, take everything I say with a grain of salt.
I wrote it in a style I fondly refer to as "unabashedly fancy" - i.e., "Fuck Zen minimalism, I'm gonna use all of my favorite words and stack loads of complex syntax n' modifying phrases'n'clauses in this motherfucker, goddamn."

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby onTonca » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:10 am UTC

yes this is absolutely lovely. and yes i saw journal 2 before i saw journal 1. and that really screwed with my head until of course the truth was revealed.

i really think we will see this girl again.
she might be put under control by her father!.....
and perhaps he is controlled by his dog!
and the dog by the kitty!
and the kitty by the bird
and the bird by the fly
and the fly by the microbe
and the microbe by the virus
and the virus by the bslsk05
and the :-)
OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby A.leon » Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:38 pm UTC

Black hat man lost his hat!
This comic made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
Horrary forr black hat girl!
Aleon says:
do you know the muffin man?
Michael says:
Yeah,he lived down Mulberry lane until he was arrested for murdering people due to the deranged pressure put on him by his dog

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby pinkgothic » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:02 pm UTC

functionally_stupid wrote:And even further: "These people are weak and pathetic and horrible. All of them. That makes me so *angry*. Maybe if I attack those weaknesses, they'll stop being so weak, and stop irritating me."


Personally, I prefer: "These people are weak and pathetic and horrible. All of them. That makes me sad. Maybe if I attack those weaknesses, they'll stop being so weak - since what doesn't kill you makes you stronger - and we'll both be happy." Add a bit of omnipotence (or something nearly equivalent) and you have a very, very frightening badguy. (Did this for a roleplaying game I GM once. He's dead now, and I miss him lots.)
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AySz88
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby AySz88 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:00 am UTC

functionally_stupid wrote:Back to the "What the hell, misanthropes?!"...


Where did this topic even came up again? I didn't see really anything after my "I see what you di--"...ah. Trying again, then?

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby russianspy1234 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:22 am UTC

so is the XKCD logo getting changed now, since he is wearing his black hat on it.

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby elektricat » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:29 pm UTC

I reckon black hat girl WILL return and her and classhole will end up waging further war on eachother. Their arch rivalry will lead to them almost destroying each other with even more cunning plans and divisions.
Eventually dreamgirl will bring them together in outer orbital space, and show them how much better everything can be if they just unite together and work together as a united front, and get along!
They will end up then going out with each other, having sex with one of the condoms classhole has punched holes in, and have little black hat babies!!!

Although, the chances of the latter of my predictions actually happening is pretty slim, since i dont think xkcd does kids that much, unless classhole is killing them or taunting them in some way.

I think that, whatever happens, classhole will always come out ontop, with the least wounds, since he was here first, and should not be thrown off his throne so easily. But, I suppose thats up to Randall to decide!!!!

<also, their new unision will mean greater havoc for the xkcd characters>
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Vanishing Hitchhiker
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby Vanishing Hitchhiker » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:29 am UTC

russianspy1234 wrote:so is the XKCD logo getting changed now, since he is wearing his black hat on it.


Speaking of logos, I've been thinking that the little shortcut/favorite icon (or whatever you call the thing that shows up on the tabs and address bar) looks like our hat guy with his (future new) lady friend. And his hat. Perhaps in the end she'll give it back.
could it be that she was the sister of the boy in Kansas who loved the girl with the tattered shawl who was the daughter of the maid who had escaped from the pirates?

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Little Richie
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby Little Richie » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:36 pm UTC

Amazing, sad, and powerfull.
Its the, get in your face and say it thing.
I love her.


I have recited this soo many times and I still laugh.

Will they ever see each other again, Will his hat be replaced?
With man gone, will there be hope for gorilla?
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby Keroppi » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:55 pm UTC

I wasn't quite ready for his tyranny to end, though.

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby Keroppi » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:01 pm UTC

Little Richie wrote:Amazing, sad, and powerfull.
Its the, get in your face and say it thing.
I love her.


I have recited this soo many times and I still laugh.

Will they ever see each other again, Will his hat be replaced?


If she said he'd never see her again, I think she meant it.
But maybe she'll see him.

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby AvalonXQ » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:39 pm UTC

Keroppi wrote:If she said he'd never see her again, I think she meant it.
But maybe she'll see him.


Maybe she just plans to remove his eyes shortly.

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby scarletmanuka » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:22 am UTC

Keroppi wrote:If she said he'd never see her again, I think she meant it.
But maybe she'll see him.

You think she's going to bring out the neuralyzer?

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby That_one_guy » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:15 am UTC

Epic
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boiert
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby boiert » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:47 pm UTC

Marry her,
Marry her NOW!
--
she shouldn't be too hard to find, silly hat and all

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Meat_Grinder
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby Meat_Grinder » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:28 am UTC

I beg xkcd's pardon, but my internal evilness could not let this one pass.

Journal 3:
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sparkster
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby sparkster » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:15 am UTC

Blackhat thoughts:
"I just got pwned"

Lol,

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby mudge » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:34 pm UTC

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/mudge <-- buy my CD (Now back in stock!)

weird stranger
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby weird stranger » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:30 am UTC

She *took* his *hat*. That's what makes him The Black Hat Guy! She can't do that! (Well, she can and did but still) Now he's just The Guy. He has to go get her...or buy a new hat. But i doubt it, he has too much pride. :arrow: What are you supposed to do with the arrow smiley? My face never makes arrows! Plus you could just do this, ←

Lunch Meat
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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby Lunch Meat » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:37 am UTC

I'm sorry if I'm sort of reviving a dead discussion...but I just read all of it because the Journal arc are like my favorite comics, and there's some things I want to respond to.

Disclaimer: I'm not getting worked up about the comic at all. I completely understand that it is "just a comic", and I am fully able to find it funny.

I found it interesting in both this and the Journal thread the different responses between guys and girls (from those who were clearly differentiated). A lot of guys sympathized with the shy girl, which is probably to be expected. But I noticed that pretty much every girl who posted basically said "What? That's unrealistic. That wouldn't bother shy girls." I beg to differ! It would and does bother at least me. Because as much as I hate meeting guys in public places because of all the creepy stalkers and jerks, one of my dreams is to meet a nice, sensitive guy in an unexpected place. BHM's actions are mean because he gives the girl a split second to think "Can it be true??" and then crushes her. This gives her less hope and encourages her to believe there aren't nice guys in public places. I realize that this probably wasn't intended by any girl who posted, but it came across, to me, like "Oh, I'm much too smart and tough to be offended by boys. Boys are weak, and girls who can be hurt by boys are weak."

Also (and this is in reply to someone from the Journal thread, which I don't want to revive because it's easier to say all of this here, and the person to whom I'm replying will almost certainly never read this, so feel free to ignore it--I just want to say it), one guy, outside of the norm, said that he doesn't mind being a jerk to girls who would interact with him on subways. He then described a girl who happened to be crying in front of him, and with whom he initiated an interaction. He then called her an "attention-getting whore". Whoa! What's wrong with crying in public places? Sometimes you have to! That kind of attitude is what keeps our walls up, keeps us from being real with other people. News flash: I have feelings. Don't be surprised when I show them. News flash: You have feelings too. When I cry in public, it's not because I want your attention. It's because I'm really, truly in a crappy mood and I need an outlet. Don't assume I'm begging for your approval or your help. Feel free to offer it, but don't get all offended that I've ruined your day with my bad feelings. Other people live in this world, and we can't always act in a manner that won't bother you. (/rant)

Meh. All of that can pretty much be ignored. I just wanted to say it.

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Re: "Journal 2" Discussion

Postby aliosha » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:57 pm UTC

*applause*

if there was someone crying (who looked even faintly like easy prey approachable) I'd probably hug them.


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