0378: "Real Programmers"

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Rangsk
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Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Postby Rangsk » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:48 am UTC

Is the alt text a reference to the Star Trek: TNG episode, Deja Q?

Q: Easy: Change the gravitational constant of the universe.
Geordi: What?
Q: Change the gravitational constant of the universe, thereby altering the mass of the asteroid.
Geordi: Redefine gravity. And how the hell am I supposed to do that?
Q: You just DO it. GAHH! Where's that doctor, anyway?
Data: Geordi is attempting to say that changing the gravitational constant of the universe is beyond our capabilities.
Q: Well, in that case... never mind.

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Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Postby GCM » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:59 am UTC

Naw, real programmers use GRAD STUDENTS.
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Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Postby grythyttan » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:06 am UTC

There are no "fake programmers" because the realness of a programmer depends on the situation. you see, if one guy programs something, a real programmer would do it better with worse tools. So if a third guy would come along and have done it even better than the second guy with even worse tools, then he would be the real programmer.
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Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Postby Schmorgluck » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:09 am UTC

Well, actually, real programmers use paper. Text editors don't change much about that (for now).
As far as text editors are concerned, I mostly use Vim, but I guess it's merely a matter of habit : Vi is the first elaborate text editor I've been taught to use with a minimum of depth. I've considered learning to use Emacs, which seems nifty to me, but I never bothered to actually do.
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Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Postby gormster » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:09 am UTC

REAL, ACTUAL PROGRAMMERS USE IDES BECAUSE THAT BIZARRE COMMAND LINE BULLSHIT TAKES WAY TOO MUCH TIME AND YOU GET FIRED

thank you
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Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Postby savage » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:18 am UTC

Triggerhappy938 wrote:So what do fake programmers use?

ZMud.
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Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Postby aerojad » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:32 am UTC

Triggerhappy938 wrote:So what do fake programmers use?

visual basic
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Stanistani
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Stanistani » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:45 am UTC

I can fake programming, but then I feel unfulfilled the next morning.

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Dobblesworth
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Dobblesworth » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:09 am UTC

*sigh*

Yet another episode with in-jokes reserved for this apparent programming xkcd elite sub-society...

In the 378 strips of this comic's history, I can quite honestly say that there have probably been at least 150 better ones, in my opinion.

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Eschatokyrios
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Eschatokyrios » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:18 am UTC

My personal preference is vi, mostly because when I began fiddling with linux I (pretty much arbitrarily) picked it instead of emacs as the editor to learn. Not that I know either terribly well, but I'm better with vi. In my CS class, though, we are taught to use emacs, which I use sometimes. It's got a built-in Scheme interpreter, which is nifty, but it's not like :wq [in vi] Alt+A N [screen] (load "file.scm") [scheme interpreter] is that much more difficult. I kind of miss vi's h-j-k-l in emacs, though.

When I ssh in from my dorm I use gvim exclusively, because that's the only program that I've managed to make display paren highlighting over ssh (and I'm using scheme, so I definitely need paren highlighting).

But that's just my preference. Using anything but the most convenient tool, especially for ideological reasons, is fucking stupid.
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Real Programmer » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:29 am UTC

Personally, I use Microsoft Word.

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby SneakyMongo » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:31 am UTC

"If you want to create an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe"
-Dr. Carl Sagan (apparently dude's got a doctorate in something?)


Haha, he's got a doctorate in astrophysics. Holy crap! I've been insulting him my entire life and didn't even know it!
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby evilbeanfiend » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:32 am UTC

of course emacs has a mode* to use vi key layouts, jees vi people do we have to tell you everything!

*actually i think there are at least 3 different vi/vim emulation modes
in ur beanz makin u eveel

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby oracle2025 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:41 am UTC

I use VIM. :-)
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby scowdich » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:49 am UTC

54 posts of discussion, and nobody has pointed out that you can't edit code with cat?

For shame!

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Bumnut » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:02 am UTC

scowdich wrote:54 posts of discussion, and nobody has pointed out that you can't edit code with cat?


Real programmers get it right the first time.

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby hthall » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:04 am UTC

scowdich wrote:54 posts of discussion, and nobody has pointed out that you can't edit code with cat?


Who said anything about editing? Real programmers get it right the first time.

(I actually have used cat before to write a snippet of very simple code.)

EDIT: Real programmers think alike.
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby tryptanymph » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:05 am UTC

I edit code with explosives.

Not really.

I just wanted to be cool.

...

I'm off to college now...

...to save myself from your embarrassing stares! :oops:
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby gormster » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:07 am UTC

scowdich wrote:54 posts of discussion, and nobody has pointed out that you can't edit code with cat?

For shame!


Nope. You have to be right the first time.

EDIT: Okie dokie, three different people post the same thing at the same time. Great minds think alike?

EDIT EDIT: Clearly great minds think very alike.
Last edited by gormster on Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:09 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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dr7
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby dr7 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:11 am UTC

scowdich wrote:54 posts of discussion, and nobody has pointed out that you can't edit code with cat?

For shame!

Apparently your cat isn't as good at C as my friend Catherine.

It's harder to type with paws though.
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Notch
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Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Postby Notch » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:16 am UTC

Triggerhappy938 wrote:So what do fake programmers use?


I use eclipse, thanks for asking. =)

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Rook
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Rook » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:17 am UTC

Loved this one, mostly since we have an [albeit simpler] variant of this 'discussion' in the lab almost daily. You don't need to ask what I use. It really should be perfectly obvious that real programmers just glare at the hardware until the ghosts arrange themselves into the final code.

Duh.
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Ubik » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:31 am UTC

This comic reminded me of a Monty Python sketch called Four Yorkshiremen. If you don't remember or know it, here's link to a transcript: http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/four_yorkshiremen.htm

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby sir_abyr » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:32 am UTC

File this under real programmers get it right the first time...

in DOS / cmd.exe
"copy con program.exe"
<alt+ascii_code><alt+ascii_code><alt+ascii_code><alt+ascii_code>
<control+z>

I used to be able to write some programs like that when I was really into assembly language and knew the interrupt table by heart. Of course getting the computer to print your name and change background colors used to be an accomplishment back then. Boot sector scrollies anyone?

Today I'm writing a satellite communications server in Python and never been happier. Today real programmers define meta data and let the computer write the software for them, while the final binary is encoded JIT for any given architecture.

Rangsk
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Rangsk » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:44 am UTC

For all those saying you can't edit files with cat, you are just not being creative enough.

First, I will show that you can write any valid c source file using cat, compile it, then execute it.

Code: Select all

echo "
int main() { return 0; }
" | cat > myprogram.c && gcc myprogram.c -o myprogram && ./myprogram


Next, I will assume that you can write a c program to read from stdin, change the nth letter to another letter based on commandline (or append if the number is -1), and then pipe the resulting output to stdout. I'm too lazy to actually write it out, but you can use your imagination I'm sure. Let's call this resulting program replace.

Now simply do the following:

Code: Select all

cat myprogram.c | ./replace 0 # > myprogram.c
cat myprogram.c | ./replace 1 i > myprogram.c


etc..

Of course, this is assuming you simply want cat using in your commandline. Clearly, the first command doesn't need to use cat, but I thought it was a nice addition. The second commandline is the real deal though.

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Dingbats
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Dingbats » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:53 am UTC

But then you're not editing code with cat, you're editing it with the replace program you wrote.

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby dazomby » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:58 am UTC

Mmmmm... VIPER.

The best of two worlds.

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby james_a_craig » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:05 am UTC

(defun butterfly () (interactive) (message "Remote butterfly control server not found."))
(defconst xkcd-prefix "\C-x\M-c")
(defvar xkcd-map (lookup-key global-map xkcd-prefix))
(unless (keymapp xkcd-map) (setq xkcd-map (make-sparse-keymap))
(define-key global-map xkcd-prefix xkcd-map)
(define-key xkcd-map "\M-b" 'butterfly)

will add a suitable C-x M-c M-b command to emacs. The -utterfly's option. :)

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syko_lozz
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby syko_lozz » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:27 am UTC

Triggerhappy938 wrote:So what do fake programmers use?


html (i can do marquee!!!)
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Ymdar
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Ymdar » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:36 am UTC

Real programmers use Fortran.

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby william » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:45 am UTC

sir_abyr wrote:in DOS / cmd.exe
"copy con program.exe"
<alt+ascii_code><alt+ascii_code><alt+ascii_code><alt+ascii_code>
<control+z>

F00FC7C8, by any chance?
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby bbctol » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:03 pm UTC

I still like the "magnetized needle" one more.

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby sir_abyr » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:09 pm UTC

F00FC7C8, by any chance?

Hah... afraid not. It was a while before I worked up to a pentium... but I did have an overclocked 486DX-99 and Now I don't even keep track... it's something ghz and way more then I need.

But you can still lookup / remember stuff like this http://spike.scu.edu.au/~barry/interrupts.html and a bit of the cpu register and mem access asm binary commands and write a real program by hand. A friend of mine used to to windows gui programs in asm but that was way too much for me.

If I could have afforded the compiler tools I probably would have no idea how they work.

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby gemsling » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:10 pm UTC

A lecturer once told us that it used to be "real programmers use pen" back in the days of writing out code by hand before working with punchcards. I prefer pencils, so I guess I'm not a real programmer.

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Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Postby UserGoogol » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:16 pm UTC

OneLess wrote:Heh, reminds me of the Yorkshiremen sketch from Monty Python :)


In my day, we didn't have the Yorkshiremen sketch. (Which is actually from "At Last the 1948 Show," not Monty Python proper, although Monty Python would later perform it.) We had to walk there uphill in the snow both ways to vaudeville shows and carefully transcribe the performers performances, mail them around by horse and buggy to all of our friends, so that when an appropriate situation arose, we would all pull out our papers and read the lines.

Ubik
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Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Postby Ubik » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:36 pm UTC

OneLess wrote:Heh, reminds me of the Yorkshiremen sketch from Monty Python :)


Damn, how did I miss that one and that long reply by muteKi as well? Well, at least I gave that link. (Checks that others had not linked to the sketch transcript.) Yeah, I gave you a link, and was the first one to give you that link. In this thread, anyway.

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby Waterhouse » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:48 pm UTC

bbctol wrote:I still like the "magnetized needle" one more.

This is actually a reference to a comment made by Randall in a speech:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k9RsByTnHFQ

... at about 0:39

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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby the_inq » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:14 pm UTC

Randall, I bow before your magnitude.
Does anyone here now if the author hosts any autograph sessions in the Massachusetts area?
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby 1337geek » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:17 pm UTC

Anyone else notice that 'real' isn't underlined in the fourth panel?
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Re: "Real Programmers" Discussion

Postby someguy » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:20 pm UTC

Reminds me of this short story by Borges called something like 'Pierre Menard's Quixote' about a writer (Pierre Menard) who tries to recreate Cervantes' Quixote by setting his own life up in such a way that the book he wrote ended up matching the Quixote word-for-word without having to actually try. (gr?)

Or something to that effect.

[/namedropping]
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