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0378: "Real Programmers"

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:03 am UTC
by Herr Mors
Image

http://xkcd.com/378/

Alt-Text: Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.

E-macs does have that command, that is why it is better than Vim

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:04 am UTC
by ACF
Not feelin this one so much.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:05 am UTC
by Azzaman
The alt-text (title, whatever) made me think of HHGTTG for some reason...

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:07 am UTC
by DigitalMeatball
I used emacs until I found out that there are programs that do much better debugging.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:08 am UTC
by Zoris
Hahah, this one was pretty good. Could use more diagram though.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:11 am UTC
by Robin S
This comic should come as no surprise; after all, it is a well-established fact that xkcd is a Real Programmer.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:13 am UTC
by Jorpho
Heh. Reminds me of this little blurb I read once. (Oddly enough, I only got one hit for it when I Googled for <"you had a bucket" "line editor"> !)

[National Wanquirer] Have you ever eavesdropped on an argument
between a bunch of old hackers? The first one will say something like,
"You know, when I started programming I had to enter my assembly
language programs using a line editor."
The next one says, "You had a line editor! I had to enter my code
using switches on the front panel."
The next says, "You had a front panel! I had to enter my assembly
code using a second-hand telegraph key."
Next: "You had an assembler! I had to use a stopwatch with my
telegraph key, so I could time the clicks and enter my program in
binary."
"You had a stopwatch! I used to beat time with my foot while I
cranked a generator with my left hand and keyed the program in with my
right hand."
"You had a generator! When I started programming, there was no
electricity. I just used this water wheel and a series of cams and
gears."
"You had cams and gears! When I started all we had was this huge
abacus."
"You had an abacus! All I had was some rocks and a bucket."
"You had a bucket!"

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:15 am UTC
by JayDee
So, real programmers don't actually program, then? Nice.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:16 am UTC
by 4=5
well when I started programing I didn't even have a computer, I drew out the circuits on paper and emulated the whole thing.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:21 am UTC
by Jahoclave
Real programmers swear a lot.

Some how there's just a vaguely scary thought about universal programmers and a lack of a semi-colon.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:23 am UTC
by adamfurry
The alt-text (title, whatever) made me think of HHGTTG for some reason...


I second that Azzaman. Deep Thought knew how to do things right.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:24 am UTC
by Flewellyn
There's nothing I hate more during geekfests than a programming dicksize war.

Real programmers use whatever tools are most useful and convenient for solving the problem!

(Except Java. Real programmers do not use Java.)

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:30 am UTC
by bmin
Flewellyn wrote:(Except Java. Real programmers do not use Java.)


Sure they do, they normally flavor it with some cream and sugar. Right around the time, they run out of Mt. Dew, Jolt, and Red Bull.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:30 am UTC
by 4=5
I'm rather partial to lisp myself

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:31 am UTC
by MissingDividends
I like the alt text. I'll have to try it sometime.

I think the moral of the story is: Real Programmers recognize that the programing medium doesn't matter, only the product.

--MD

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:34 am UTC
by hthall
Obligatory link to the classic bit of folklore about Mel, the Real Programmer.

Re: Four Yorkshiremen Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:39 am UTC
by muteKi
eMacs? No, we used a standard Apple model at the time I was in elementary school.



...which I had to walk to uphill, both ways, in the freezing rain and snow every morning at 6:00 and the route was like a mile long if you took the path that didn't have the overgrowth with the thorns that ripped your clothing and rendered your super heavy coat pretty much ineffective.

...and it wasn't even walking because at the time I had lost control of my legs and so had to crawl with my upper body exclusively most days.

...and when we got to school, if you could call it that, was more like a set of cardboard boxes with no plumbing or heating, and was built to fit only like 10 people but had to hold 40 or 50.

...if you could call that fitting; the desks were double-decker to provide more floor space.

...if you can call them desks; they were more like slabs of wood with rocks to hold them off the ground.

...and that's if you got one that was made of wood.

...and then when I got to fifth grade we didn't even have boxes; instead they moved us out to potholes along the side of the road and shuffled us in between them for each class; the administration didn't have the budget for expansion because it was used "for technological development" which probably means that they used the funds for subscription to porn sites.

...if you could even call them porn sites; if I recall correctly they were more like charts from anatomy books.

...which they could only view on the five or so days when the phone lines weren't downed and the modem didn't get disconnected.

...and for extracurricular activities all the school had was boil removal training and hair exploratory.

...and that was when the hair exploratory instructor decided to actually show up.

...but at least, you know, the hair exploratory instructor was a hobo rather than a poison dart frog or Africanized honeybee.

...which was still better than the paramecium that we had as our principle and vice principle.

...and I think the superintendent was a little ball of lint that was stuck in a clothes dryer.

...if you can even call it that. It was more like a box that made a lot of noise and had a component that spun around.

...at least on the days that it decided to spin; usually it just sat there and made noises.

...if you could actually hear them; most people who came into contact with the machine went deaf.

...if you could actually come into contact with them; few people could make it through the building that the machine was in alive.

...if you could call it a building, though asbestos-lined cave is perhaps more appropriate.

...and that was where most of the population in town resided.

...if you could call that many people a "population"; most atlases called the area uninhabited.

...of course, you only knew that if you could read, since the written language of the area consisted primarily of closely-stacked vertical lines and spaces.

...and they weren't even lines, really, more like squiggly scrawl and you were lucky if you could make all of them out.

...if you even had your sight anymore, since most of the people in the cave had evolved against having any operational organs for seeing.

...and everyone was happy about that since everyone else was unbearably ugly.

...if you could call that being happy -- the walls of the cave were luminescent so sight would not have been wasted.

...because it was built of dung from the bats that came from the nearby melted-down nuclear power plant.

...and when you died of cancer people would dance on your graves.

...if you even got a grave, as I for one was thrown onto a pile of rocks to decay.

...Now, try telling that to today's youth, however, and they won't believe you.

(It's so easy to go overboard with this sketch. I can see why it's so popular.)

ALSO:
Damn butterflies, I swear, those have to be the creepiest animal in existence. I mean those fish with the lights on their heads are freaky but cool. Butterflies are JUST NOT COOL.

AND:
Yes, I know that wasn't what was meant in the comics by emacs.
Just be glad you didn't ask about the dirty hex editor.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:41 am UTC
by aeiss
darn those butterflies
wonder if you could harness their energy
stop global warming and all that

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:41 am UTC
by suso
I'm curious, being a vi user for 10 years now and not having spent a lot of time (maybe more than most though) with Emacs, I wonder if those who use it for a while also get the same feeling that vi masters do.

Eventually, using vi feels like this. Do emacs users feel like that too? (I really had to resist the urge to make this link to a Rick Roll video. I spared you (you're welcome :D (hey recursion :arrow: (stop that :!: (no :evil: )))) (if I had emacs, it would be easier to close all these parenthesis)).

Then there was a recent article somewhere talking about how science has discovered that your brain uses a trick to help you use tools, it makes you think that they are an extension of your hand. And then I thought, vi must be a real tool then while some other programs are more of obstructions.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:43 am UTC
by aerojad
I use Kate.







...the text editor.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:52 am UTC
by yitzle
Ouch.



nano does give you color coding, auto-indent, bracket matching, multiple file buffers and more!
Combined with the screen command, what's wrong with nano!?

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:56 am UTC
by arcterex
I think this is a great comic as it's practically a duplication of (joking) programmer dick size wars I used to have with friends for fun, though we never got to butterflies, normally jumping to using the moon's gravitational field to manipulate the bits on the hard drive... great fun to try to out-do your friends. Blogged about this too I loved the comic that much (though won't link as to not appear like a link whore :)

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:59 am UTC
by Dark Shikari
Real programmers subconsciously alter the laws of the cosmos so that their code does what they want it to do, regardless of correctness.

Or they more blatantly alter the cosmos to summon a superintelligent alien that fixes their code for them.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:01 am UTC
by muteKi
Real programmers just sit down, program, compile, and execute complex programs ALL IN THEIR OWN HEAD.


What's weird is that they can actually sit down in their own head. I mean, I can't do that. That's why I've said I'm not cut out to be a programmer.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:01 am UTC
by OneLess
Heh, reminds me of the Yorkshiremen sketch from Monty Python :)

"Right. Real Programmers had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before they went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay the mill owner for permission to come to work, and when they got home, their Dad would kill them , and dance about on their graves singing "Hallelujah.""

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:08 am UTC
by lazarus89
aerojad wrote:I use Kate.

...the text editor.


I use Kate.

... the woman.

I write code on her boobs with a sharpie; she then transcibes this code (with auto -completion and -correction) to the terminal. A simple voice command ("compile <project>") results in compilation and execution of the project.

I find this to be a more effective stimulating paradigm than regular direct interaction with the computer.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:11 am UTC
by Bando
*whoosh*

Riiight over my head.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:12 am UTC
by LeNea
The butterflies remind me of this installation at the NC Museum of Art. It's a series of mylar butterflies that sort of click open and closed with the circulation of air in the building. Together, they form a jet taking off. I can just see the butterfly-using programmer setting up this elaborate range of butterflies to accomplish...something.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:26 am UTC
by russianspy1234

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:27 am UTC
by cephalopod9
Butterflies are one of my favorite symbols. Butterflies + cosmic rays = win.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:29 am UTC
by littlebee
Am I the only person who was reminded of the Terry Pratchett book "Interesting times" from this and thought of that before the programming?

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:37 am UTC
by syko_lozz
Randall wrote: Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.


God is the only real programmer


seriously, this is how i see the "God created everything" thing as working
He set it up just right so it would all come out the way he planned

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:38 am UTC
by Lathe
I've seen these debates before. The conclusion is:
The more 'real' a programmer is, the worse his tools are.

:twisted:

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:43 am UTC
by dr7
So this hasn't gone to an emacs vs. vim vs. nano vs. notepad vs. gedit vs. whatever flamewar yet?

Wow.
:wq

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:50 am UTC
by cephalopod9
littlebee wrote:Am I the only person who was reminded of the Terry Pratchett book "Interesting times" from this and thought of that before the programming?

I just got that book from the library, about 90 pages into it. Chaos butterflies are awesome.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:13 am UTC
by Kizor
aeiss wrote:darn those butterflies
wonder if you could harness their energy
stop global warming and all that


darn those butterflies
we should take their energy
end global warming

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:16 am UTC
by pnevma
qntm, anyone?

Real programmers program in machine language for a machine that was never actually built.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:33 am UTC
by Kalos
Real programmers use whatever is easiest for the job :D

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:34 am UTC
by EdgarJPublius
I had a prof last semester who told us stories about writing program on punch cards while writing code in M$ notepad and compiling them from the command line, I got the feeling he would have been more comfortable digging moths out of Colossus than teaching us java.

anyway, Real programmers are too important to be used on this project, get an intern to do it.

Re: Real Programmers Discussion

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:34 am UTC
by Triggerhappy938
So what do fake programmers use?