0383: "Helping"

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TheAntiElite
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby TheAntiElite » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:00 pm UTC

I find it almost sad, and just short of amusing, that the sole reason I registered was not to laud the brilliance of this (or any other) particular comic, but to instead point out that this particular one, bringing forth so many full of complaint and derision, brought out the most entertaining display of Overly Macho Internet Tough Guy Syndrome I've yet seen.

Seriously, bitching about perceived 'emo-ness'? What, are you some kind of emotionally stunted Dane Cook fans with popped collars?

Sometimes you gotta go a little deeper than "Life sucks, get a helmet!".

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ZLVT
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby ZLVT » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:21 pm UTC

TheAntiElite wrote:I find it almost sad ... that the sole reason I registered was not to laud the brilliance of this ... comic, but to instead point out that this particular one ... brought out the most entertaining display of Overly Macho Internet Tough Guy Syndrome I've yet seen.

...

Sometimes you gotta go a little deeper than "Life sucks, get a helmet!".


My, how incredibly insulting. I think that when people have grown accustomed to humorous comics and suddenly get a slap in the face, they are bound to wonder what is going on. Surely when you first saw it, you didn't think "Well, that's my XKCD fix for the day, I'll be happy till Friday now". The sheer fact that you registered over this comic suggests to me (though I'll probably be wrong) that you don't usually read the fora, and that, like me, this was your first time because you wanted to see what other peoples' reactions and insights were. This would mean that you yourself saw something out of place with the comic.
Many of the posts on here have actually yeilded a very deep discussion, many emotions brought to the surface, old memories, past experiences, stories and a general spiderweb of "bondingness" (bondage sends the wrong message) has appeared with some 8 pages of comments over some 3-4 days. I've yet to see this influx of OMITG Syndrome you seem to be so worried about. many a post has been very insightful.

I also believe, that you are mistaking machismo for shock. Is it not possible that people, expecitng a cheery start to their Wednesday morning (afternoon for me) went at bit at a loss for words initially, and, having regained dictative faculties, began to wonder why, or even were concerned for, possibly, Randal? This is hardly a normal comic, it suggests that something is out of place.

well those're my 3am insights anyway, I'm off to bed.
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MLO
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I Have Heard The Mermaids Singing Each To Each...

Postby MLO » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:25 pm UTC

I have been the girl in this comic, mostly because growing up I was always the man.

One of the thing that may have gone unmentioned (for the sake of my mental health I didn't read the entire nine pages) is the sheer unremitting agony that is depression. It is beyond speech. It is beyond explanation. It can, and sometimes does, overtake and drown those that attempt to help.

However, in an ironic twist of fate, one of the very, very few things that does relieve the pain is the presence of a friend or confidant. Depending on the person, the knowledge that another human being is present...not expecting, not demanding, not asking, just being present, helps in some mysterious way.

Haroshia
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby Haroshia » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:22 pm UTC

Long time reader, first time poster.

This comic is a lesson that goes contrary to what we're taught at kids, but it is a very important lesson to learn. It took me years to figure it out, but I have come up with a very important rule to help guide my actions.

Do not help anybody who does not ask for it. If somebody does ask you for help, and you care about them, help them as best as you can.

If people don't want help, and you try to force it on them, it WILL make things worse without exception. We're all told from the time we're young that we should reach out and magically everything will be better, but that is not the case. You can do nothing for somebody who doesn't want to get better, and if they don't ask for help then obviously they think they can do it on your own.

Since I started living by this method things have been better. I have no guilt or remorse for those who I cared about who caused themselves pain, because there truly was nothing I could do. At the same time, I am glad I could be there for the friends who were seeking help and wasn't totally drained and wrecked myself from trying to "fix" people who didn't want to be fixed.

I don't see this comic as sad, but rather a realization of a fact that all good people will have to face eventually. You cannot help those who don't want help.

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mudge
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby mudge » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:12 pm UTC

TheAntiElite wrote:I find it almost sad, and just short of amusing, that the sole reason I registered was not to laud the brilliance of this (or any other) particular comic, but to instead point out that this particular one, bringing forth so many full of complaint and derision, brought out the most entertaining display of Overly Macho Internet Tough Guy Syndrome I've yet seen.


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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby yakasha » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:19 pm UTC

MLO wrote:I have been the girl in this comic, mostly because growing up I was always the man.

One of the thing that may have gone unmentioned (for the sake of my mental health I didn't read the entire nine pages) is the sheer unremitting agony that is depression. It is beyond speech. It is beyond explanation. It can, and sometimes does, overtake and drown those that attempt to help.

However, in an ironic twist of fate, one of the very, very few things that does relieve the pain is the presence of a friend or confidant. Depending on the person, the knowledge that another human being is present...not expecting, not demanding, not asking, just being present, helps in some mysterious way.


This comic makes my eyes water just thinking about it. My girlfriend cried, then we talked about it for hours after she read it. We've both been on both sides, we've both lost friends this way by leaving them behind, and by attending their funerals.

Depression (and bi-polar disorder) is one of those things that the vast majority of people will never be able to comprehend without suffering it themselves. Depression is dangerous and destructive to the victims and everybody that cares about them.

Seriously, try to understand it by trying to feel it. Try to just know that you are a horrible person. It doesn't matter if you're Mother Theresa, Ghandi, or Jesus Christ. All your good deeds will never make up for the fact that you're horrible. Everybody around you is being taken down because you're horrible. Your friend telling you to get help just shows that you caused him strife. Your mom telling you she is worried... You're bringing her down. Somebody didn't say anything to you? They obviously don't care about you. It is your fault. All you have to do is get help. Ask. Call somebody. You look at the phone... No. It will just upset them. They're better off without you here. Why didn't you ask for help? Now you're going to get fired from your job. No money, you'll get evicted. No home, you'll lose contact with your friends. What friends? They don't even like you. They're tired of you being depressed all the time. You ruin everything. All you have to do is snap out of it. Why can't you? You're defective. Stop trying. No point. Do one thing right. Just one. The only thing you can do right. The knife in the kitchen. Help everybody. Leave them.

Permanently...

Now, keep that up. 24 hours a day for 2 weeks. Then do it again every month. And just when you think you might not have to do it anymore, just when you think you understand how it is ruining your life, know that you'll be doing it again soon. And make sure that knowledge sends you back down earlier and earlier every time.


Btw, great web comic. I laugh my ass off with all the others ;)

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby a thing » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:40 pm UTC

yakasha wrote:Seriously, try to understand it by trying to feel it. Try to just know that you are a horrible person. It doesn't matter if you're Mother Theresa, Ghandi, or Jesus Christ. All your good deeds will never make up for the fact that you're horrible. Everybody around you is being taken down because you're horrible. Your friend telling you to get help just shows that you caused him strife. Your mom telling you she is worried... You're bringing her down. Somebody didn't say anything to you? They obviously don't care about you. It is your fault. All you have to do is get help. Ask. Call somebody. You look at the phone... No. It will just upset them. They're better off without you here. Why didn't you ask for help? Now you're going to get fired from your job. No money, you'll get evicted. No home, you'll lose contact with your friends. What friends? They don't even like you. They're tired of you being depressed all the time. You ruin everything. All you have to do is snap out of it. Why can't you? You're defective. Stop trying. No point. Do one thing right. Just one. The only thing you can do right. The knife in the kitchen. Help everybody. Leave them.


If you are a friend of someone that thinks like this, do not stop. Keep being there. Keep listening. Stay up all night (Get some mate in the morning if you need to.) Do your best to not let them get you down. Tell them the facts as much as you need to: ultimately, only the only thing that can really help them is themself; they have the most influence over themself; tell them what really matters; you care (and point out all else who do); they are not worthless; point out all the false assumptions and interpretations they have. Do not lie.

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby Jatopian » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:23 pm UTC

Kalos wrote:This is one point where I like the philosophy of Immanuel Kant, who states that it is always wrong for a rational being (human) to lie to another one, however children, who are driven by wants, do not fall under the definition of a rational being and therefore can be lied to in certain situations... hence why things like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy aren't considered immoral teachings.
If you're a Christian, as I suspect, I'll just remind you that that commandment about not lying has absolutely no qualifiers to it.

If you're not, I would say that:
1. Kant is a [juvenile play on his name involving sexual slang]
2. We're all driven by wants, despite Kant's argument about reason not being desire driven - reason is a tool and a means to an end.
3. see below
Haroshia wrote:This comic is a lesson that goes contrary to what we're taught at kids, but it is a very important lesson to learn. It took me years to figure it out, but I have come up with a very important rule to help guide my actions.
....
We're all told from the time we're young that we should reach out and magically everything will be better, but that is not the case.

Tails
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby Tails » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:18 am UTC

Very sad comic... I want to cry. Really. :(
And... It can sounds silly... But... This girl, she is so beutiful...
And she is so sad now... :(

I think, you can't take *responsibility* for someone else's happiness, but in most cases you can make someone little happier...

PyroKittens
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby PyroKittens » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:26 am UTC

This is a great comic, and I think people complaining about too much emo-ness need to accept that there will be an occasional melancholy comic, that has deeper meaning, and that a lot of us appreciate that. In my humble opinion, "comics" that discuss actual issues can do so in a way much more poignant then straight text, and I applaud Randall for this comic.

BT
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby BT » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:40 am UTC

I'm with the crowd that says this comic isn't amazingly deep. There isn't a great moral lesson to be learned, and it not going to change anyones life.

This comic still hit home despite this. Simply because the lesson, even though its one that many people know, isn't one you see talked about much. It's powerful just because its not something you see often. I've been there, on both sides. It sucked. I've moved past it, but its still a good feeling to see that other people have too.

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creaothceann
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Re: "Helping.png" Discussion

Postby creaothceann » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:25 pm UTC

denali wrote:http://lynneforrest.com/html/the_faces_of_victim.html

Very interesting.

MysticalChicken
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby MysticalChicken » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:13 am UTC

This one made me cry.

That is all.

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standinginherfield
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Re: "Helping.png" Discussion

Postby standinginherfield » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:46 am UTC

creaothceann wrote:
denali wrote:http://lynneforrest.com/html/the_faces_of_victim.html

Very interesting.


Yes. Yes it is. [others: check it out.]
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scarletmanuka
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby scarletmanuka » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:14 am UTC

Jamaican Castle wrote:Warning: nonsensical ramblings ahead.
scarletmanuka wrote:
danking wrote:Would you tell the truth to a young child about everything in the world? Tell him his pet dog is never coming back, that its dead and that he will die someday too and theres nothing he can do about it?

When my eldest daughter first wanted to talk about death (her younger sibs are a bit too young to understand it yet), I explained to her that everyone dies eventually; it is sad when people die but we can't stop it from happening; that she didn't have to be scared about dying; and that it would almost certainly be years and years before her mother or I died, so she didn't have to worry about that either. Why should I lie to her?

Well, you shouldn't - because she asked, and that seems to imply that she's mature enough (or at least thinks she is) to handle the answer.

That's a bit disingenuous. If she doesn't know the answer, how can she judge whether she's mature enough to handle it? For reference, she probably would have been about 5 at this point (she's just turned 7). I didn't make a note of the date. :roll: But for me it wasn't really about maturity, which in my view governs more the level of detail that goes into the answer... also:
If one of her siblings asked, what would you tell him/her, given that he/she is "too young to understand".

If the 4-year-old asked (the 1-year-old isn't likely to ask for a while yet!), it would indicate to me that he's made the connections in his mind that enable him to understand the concept of death itself and to deduce from that the concept that people he knows might die. The (apparent, at this stage) lack of those connections is what I mean by being too young to understand. Trying to explain it to him at this point would probably just confuse him.

Kalos wrote:This is one point where I like the philosophy of Immanuel Kant, who states that it is always wrong for a rational being (human) to lie to another one, however children, who are driven by wants, do not fall under the definition of a rational being and therefore can be lied to in certain situations... hence why things like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy aren't considered immoral teachings. It's one thing to teach the truth (that the dog is dead, never coming back... if they can understand the concept of death) and taking away hope and innocence (telling them they're going to die, that they're worthless, that nothing they do will matter after they're dead, etc.)

[On the philosophy bit: there are situations where lying is ethical ("No, I'm not hiding any Jews in my cellar.") And anyone who doesn't think adults in modern Western society are driven by wants hasn't observed many of them IMO.]
Well, we haven't taught our kids to believe in Santa or the Tooth Fairy - they know the conventions, but they also know it's only a game and that it's really Mum and Dad buying presents or leaving money. Knowing that Santa isn't real doesn't spoil their enjoyment or excitement when they see him appear on stage at a Christmas carols service or whatever.

As for the examples you gave of "taking away hope and innocence"... the first one shouldn't be a problem if you do it properly, and as I said above I've done that with my daughter, and will with the other two when they're older. As for the other two, I believe those statements are simply wrong. The last one is laughable; the actions of now-dead people are the primary driving force that has made the world what it is today. So I haven't seen an example of a case where it would be preferable to lie to my children.

Of course, none of them have asked me about sex yet. I'm sure that conversation will be fun. :shock: But at this stage I feel it's one of those subjects where you answer honestly, but as vaguely as you can get away with. :lol: Well, more accurately, you control the level of detail that you're giving them based on how much you think they need and what they know of the underlying concepts. When my daughter asked me about rainbows (and here I was preparing for the one about why the sky is blue) I wasn't going to try to introduce her to the EM spectrum or the concept of a refractive index, but I did tell her the basic mechanism (something along the lines of normal light being made up of all the different colours, and the raindrops in the air bending the different colours by different amounts, so we see different colours coming in from different places - with the liberal use of gestures to help out). When she's older she'll get a more detailed explanation, but not a substantially different one.

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby AvalonXQ » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:49 pm UTC

Jatopian wrote:If you're a Christian, as I suspect, I'll just remind you that that commandment about not lying has absolutely no qualifiers to it.


If you're referring to Exodus Chapter 20, the "Ten Commandments", I'll point out:
1) The command is to not bear false witness. This means not saying an event happened when, in fact, it didn't. That's actually a lot more "qualified" of a commandment than "not lying".
2) The "Ten Commandments" are part of the Mosaic Law, not part of Christian teachings. If you have any evidence of an actual Christian prohibition against any sort of lying, please share.

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby Bosonator » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:56 pm UTC

Just listening to "Brick" by the Ben Folds Five, and the lyrics reminded me of this comic again.
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby reishka » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:51 am UTC

So... I've fallen behind on my webcomics. I've fallen behind and just today I'm getting caught up, and just today... I have my first appointment with a doctor to talk about getting some help. After eight long years of fighting on my own, of trying and pushing and shoving and pretending and trying to make things alright on my own, I'm going in for help. Just taking that step is so hard. That one little step, to *ask* for help... it's not nearly as simple as it sounds. There's so many implications and complications that get caught up in that...

This strip hit particularly hard, and I can't explain why. It just kinda punched in the gut and blindsided me a bit.

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby Lolsaur » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:11 pm UTC

standinginherfield wrote: But at this stage I feel it's one of those subjects where you answer honestly, but as vaguely as you can get away with.


I also believe that is the bestway to go about it. Having no children of my own, I can't fully understand this kind of predicament, but I can guess. I don't believe that children have the full capacity to understand such complex ideas as death or as adult concepts as sex. As such, they should be told the main gist of them, but not tell them the whole truth. For example, with sex you could say "It's how a man and woman show love for each other and how babies are made.", but don't tell them the mechanics of it. :P .
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby DragonHawk » Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:12 am UTC

I did not register just to post in this thread. (I figure it will be more efficient to identify those who didn't than those who did. ;-) (J/K -- Welcome newcomers!))

Lolsaur wrote:I also believe that is the bestway to go about it. Having no children of my own, I can't fully understand this kind of predicament, but I can guess. I don't believe that children have the full capacity to understand such complex ideas as death or as adult concepts as sex.

I find most people don't give children near enough credit. I'm not saying the five-year-old can understand wide-reaching implications of social responsibility (that needs personal experience more than received wisdom), but children learn faster and better than adults. That's biology. We only seem better at it because we've got a larger knowledge base to build upon.

I also find it curious, and a little sad, that so many people find the prospect of a discussion with children about sex to be so daunting. If you look past the baggage that various groups have hung on it, it's a fairly simple concept. Adult male + adult female = New human.

Does anyone know of any good, readily available historical sources that indicate when sex became a secret? I reason that has to be a relatively recent phenomenon. Go back a few hundred years to when most people were farmers, and the mechanics of sex become pretty damn obvious. (New farm animals are produced in the same way as new humans. And they don't care who watches.)
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby scarletmanuka » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:20 am UTC

DragonHawk wrote:I also find it curious, and a little sad, that so many people find the prospect of a discussion with children about sex to be so daunting. If you look past the baggage that various groups have hung on it, it's a fairly simple concept. Adult male + adult female = New human.
The challenge is in explaining it - particularly if they want to know about the mechanics of it - while also discouraging them from trying to do it. Simply telling them that it's an adult thing is not going to do that. They love trying to do adult things. Even if they're just doing it as "pretend", this may be a bad idea. :?
DragonHawk also wrote:Does anyone know of any good, readily available historical sources that indicate when sex became a secret? I reason that has to be a relatively recent phenomenon. Go back a few hundred years to when most people were farmers, and the mechanics of sex become pretty damn obvious. (New farm animals are produced in the same way as new humans. And they don't care who watches.)
Ah, but the beauty of young children (or one of them) is that they don't necessarily connect "process for production of animals" to "process for production of humans". So I don't think it's quite that clear-cut.

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby justinhj » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:05 pm UTC

Does anyone know of any good, readily available historical sources that indicate when sex became a secret? I reason that has to be a relatively recent phenomenon. Go back a few hundred years to when most people were farmers, and the mechanics of sex become pretty damn obvious. (New farm animals are produced in the same way as new humans. And they don't care who watches.)


I don't think you'll find historical sources. I think sex has been performed largely between couples for hundreds of thousands of years.

Jared Diamond spends quite a few chapters speculating on our sex lives from an evolutionary point of view in:

1992 The Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal, ISBN 0-060-98403-1

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby Jatopian » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:17 pm UTC

AvalonXQ, I'm hiding my response because I don't wish to clutter the thread.
Spoiler:
@1: You're using the King James Version if your version of the Commandments reads like that. That version's flaws and mistranslations have been addressed many times, and it is safe to say that it is unreliable even if one takes the truth of Scripture for granted. Try the New International Version, or any analysis of the Septuagint, and you'll find it actually reads "You shall not lie." Or try other places where God commands, like Leviticus 19:11.

@2: "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony...'"(Matthew 19:17-18)
Curious that Jesus would endorse commandments which no longer applied.
But if you don't accept that, maybe you include Paul's teachings in your Christianity? "Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices" (Colossians 3:9) I see no qualifiers there, except maybe one could interpret "each other" as meaning it's only bad to lie to Christians. I kind of doubt that. I assume your children would be raised Christian though, so it's rather moot here.

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby AvalonXQ » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:34 pm UTC

Jatopian wrote:AvalonXQ, I'm hiding my response because I don't wish to clutter the thread.
Spoiler:
@1: You're using the King James Version if your version of the Commandments reads like that. That version's flaws and mistranslations have been addressed many times, and it is safe to say that it is unreliable even if one takes the truth of Scripture for granted. Try the New International Version, or any analysis of the Septuagint, and you'll find it actually reads "You shall not lie." Or try other places where God commands, like Leviticus 19:11.

@2: "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony...'"(Matthew 19:17-18)
Curious that Jesus would endorse commandments which no longer applied.
But if you don't accept that, maybe you include Paul's teachings in your Christianity? "Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices" (Colossians 3:9) I see no qualifiers there, except maybe one could interpret "each other" as meaning it's only bad to lie to Christians. I kind of doubt that. I assume your children would be raised Christian though, so it's rather moot here.


My response to your response:
Spoiler:
Actually, no. Even the New International Version says: "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor." And, as shown above, Jesus also said don't give false testimony, rather than not to lie.
Futher, Jesus was a Jew speaking to Jews while the Old Law was still in effect. The Old Law was fulfilled upon by his Crucifixion, not before (see Hebrews for more on this). So, yes, some of the teachings regarding the Law don't apply to Christians.
By the way, I find it unfortunate that you would talk about the inaccuracies of the King James while quoting the NIV -- basically the LEAST accurate translation still seriously considered by Christians other than the Living Bible.
As for Colossians, THAT is a good argument, and I accept it. Paul did in fact teach the imporance of us being honest with each other. You've proven your point.

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby fiveofoh » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:29 pm UTC

For all those complaining about this being "emo" and XKCD not being happy...
XKCD has never been just about being happy or funny. It's funny a lot, but it's got some thinkers, and some sad ones. Which is why I love XKCD - it's deeper than just a laugh. My absolute favorite XKCD, Ferret is one of the sadder ones, because it really connected with me. The Barrel series (look in the archive for the rest) is also an excellent series, and is very much a thinking, emotional comic, definitely not just for the laughs.
I love XKCD precisely because of this depth - and I wouldn't have it any other way.

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby Lolsaur » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:11 pm UTC

Jatopian wrote:AvalonXQ, I'm hiding my response because I don't wish to clutter the thread.
Spoiler:
@1: You're using the King James Version if your version of the Commandments reads like that. That version's flaws and mistranslations have been addressed many times, and it is safe to say that it is unreliable even if one takes the truth of Scripture for granted. Try the New International Version, or any analysis of the Septuagint, and you'll find it actually reads "You shall not lie." Or try other places where God commands, like Leviticus 19:11.

@2: "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony...'"(Matthew 19:17-18)
Curious that Jesus would endorse commandments which no longer applied.
But if you don't accept that, maybe you include Paul's teachings in your Christianity? "Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices" (Colossians 3:9) I see no qualifiers there, except maybe one could interpret "each other" as meaning it's only bad to lie to Christians. I kind of doubt that. I assume your children would be raised Christian though, so it's rather moot here.



Personally, I don't see what telling a child the version of the truth has to do with any religion. It's not a question of faith or adherring to God's law, it's a question of what children are capable and ready to understand. A child would have difficulty in understanding ideas like death, simply because they do not have the same life experience and the neural connections in their brains has not developed fully. Also, it would be rather harsh on a child to say "I'm sorry, Billy, but your life-long dog, whom you've loved for your whole life, has been hit by a car and died from severe shock, but not before having several limbs broken and going through immense pain.". You would sinply say something along the lines of "Sorry, Billy, but your dog has had to go away."
Worst Fight Scene Ever

This cosy, special made for this Teapot

Spoiler:
You've never looked better than you did that night
And your eyes have never looked so blue
And when we kissed it was like nothing else existed
As time stood still for me and you

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gbrayut
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby gbrayut » Fri May 23, 2008 6:25 pm UTC

Love the comic.

In my own experience, it would have been just as appropriate to have him leaving on the stretcher instead of her... Sometimes you try so hard that it ends up hurting you.

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standinginherfield
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby standinginherfield » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:23 am UTC

Some of those reading this discussion will very possibly be interested in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19427&p=697008#p697008

or, i urge you to at least check out
http://www.webiteback.com .

JOIN A REVOLUTION. STOP HATING YOUR BODY!
maintain wonder.

starseedjenny
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby starseedjenny » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:23 am UTC

I registered just to say how this one breaks my heart every time I see it.



I get so deep into trying to help people to be happy that if I fail, I'm nearly as unhappy as they are.

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Elvish Pillager
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:49 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:...struck a (dis)chord with many of us (D minor for me, the saddest chord).

Throw in an E in the bass. :twisted:

(I loved this strip when I read it; it's definitely in my style. Probably, half the people who posted to disparage it were trying to pretend to themselves that it didn't have the emotional impact on them that it did.)
Also known as Eli Dupree. Check out elidupree.com for my comics, games, and other work.

GENERATION A(g64, g64): Social experiment. Take the busy beaver function of the generation number and add it to your signature.

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Isaleen Grey
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby Isaleen Grey » Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:00 am UTC

Hi guys-
I bookmarked this discussion a while back- at the time I was going through a pretty difficult time and was contemplating suicide. The comic was really profound, but it was mainly this discussion which gave me some sorely needed guidance and support. At the time no one knew about the issues I was dealing with- I didn't feel as though I had anyone to reach out to. The comic and especially your posts were part of what kept me from attempting, and I would like to thank all of you, as well as Randall- I have been through some counseling and I am doing much better. I hope that I will never be in that place again, but this thread remains bookmarked to remind me what the consequences of a suicide are. Thank you all for your insightful comments and stories- they have made a huge difference in my life.
Infinity is part of me

Cats and oysters and I have a lot in common, unfortunately for all involved.

I'm too scared to pursue happiness directly, so I just meander towards it while pretending I'm doing something else.

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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby SherryCQ » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:19 pm UTC

Sorry if I'm reviving a dead thread, but I've been catching up on XKCD comics and this one struck an EXTREMELY big chord with me.

Last year I was the girl in the comic, and for three months I waited for the "guy" to come and help me--partly because I wanted him to, and partly because I had no energy to do much else. He never came, and it made me feel worse because I felt like nobody cared about me. Keep in mind that I WAS seeing a therapist as well, and she helped a lot--but the fact that my own friends didn't know anything was wrong HURT, especially since I was already feeling isolated. I didn't need any medication or hospitalization--just talking with my therapist helped get me through senior year--but since I never HAD the guy in the comic, it made me cry because I remember wanting him there so badly.

I wasn't trying to get attention--even if you have professional help, it helps if you have a friend who acknowledges that you're hurting, that this whole thing isn't in your head and you're not a spoiled brat crying for attention. All I wanted was for someone to find me huddled in whatever random spot I was in and KNOW that something was wrong, and give me a hug even if I didn't want one.

"It turns out you can't take responsibility for someone else's happiness." Since the guy never showed up, I was forced to seek help by myself, with no one to reassure me that therapists don't turn away people showing five signs of clinical depression. Since she worked right on campus, it was easier than going to the hospital across town, but physical difficulty is irrelevant; when you're on your own and depressed, everything seems hard because you're afraid that people will reject you.

This comic makes me wonder how much faster I'd have gotten through it if I'd had the guy there, but it also makes me feel hopeful because I have taken responsibility for my own happiness. Of course I would have LIKED the guy to be there, and it was pretty damn hard dealing with therapy and grades and trying to sort out my future all at once, but I got through it and that's something to be glad about.

Personally? I think the girl will be okay.

Nulono
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby Nulono » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:02 am UTC

Okay, I don't get the comic.

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Awesomeness
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Re: "Helping.png" Discussion

Postby Awesomeness » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:23 am UTC

OneLess wrote:
mudge wrote:Dammit, now emo crap is taking over XKCD.

Recognizing that life sucks sometimes != emo

No, recognising that some people are doing something different and joining in on it (conformity at it's finest) = emo
this comic is about depression not being emo. Ones a state of mind the other is a state of social status
Image
Jack Bauer once forgot where he put his keys. He then spent the next half-hour torturing himself until he gave up their location.

crookster
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Re: 0383: "Helping"

Postby crookster » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:11 pm UTC

Not sure if this viewpoint has been posted, but I see it as the top right and bottom left panels being the two options the man in the large panel can take (try and console her, or leave her be). Regardless of his choice, she ends up attempting suicide (or overdoses or whatever). It turns out you can't take responsibility for someone else's happiness.

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Samik
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Re: 0383: "Helping"

Postby Samik » Mon May 02, 2011 8:52 pm UTC

i am neither enamored with this comic, like some, nor repulsed by it, like some others.

I just wanted to mention, however, that I think Crookster has hit the nail on the head. While I did not see it that way on initial read, once you mentioned it, it became very plain to me that this must have been exactly what was intended.

Also, the red in the final panel is a nice touch - just the right level of suggestive.

123man
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Re: "Helping" Discussion

Postby 123man » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:49 pm UTC

SherryCQ wrote:Personally? I think the girl will be okay.

You're right. She turns out fine.

TrueNarnian
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Re: 0383: "Helping"

Postby TrueNarnian » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:47 pm UTC

I don't get this comic. Can someone explain it to me?

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addams
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Re: 0383: "Helping"

Postby addams » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:22 pm UTC

It is true that we can not take responsibility for the unhappiness of everyone. That is true.

But; Damn it! People!

We do have an effect on one another. We can do things that please others.
We can also be bad people and make a sweet, nice person miserable.

So; Yes. I do know these things. Yes. Psych is a valid and useful practice.
Humans are human. Our minds break in predictable ways and our minds heal in predictable ways.

How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb?
Only one. But; The light bulb has to want to change.


Some of us are more sensitive than others.
Some of us need meds to make our brain chemistry usable for us.

I have experience on both sides of that comic, sort of.

I will get out of bed early and travel, just, to have lunch with a friend.
I know that it is good for me. He will be his own silly self. Some of what he is leaves me with a big ?!? floating over my head.

Yet; It does make me happier. I ask his permission to lean on him and eat with him and laugh at him. He does make me happier. I am willing to go far across space using my time to be made happier by another person.

I have been on the other side, too. One of the most interesting people that I have ever known was a man that asked me to help him be happier. He is brilliant. He was also miserable. I am smart, too.

We worked as a team. We used Science. We made plans. We evaluated results.
He is so fucking much happier. It took some time and it was not all Fields of Flowers. But; We got there.
We can help one another. We Can!

There is a time for professional help. In Psych it comes in lots and lots of flavors. We were not going Rouge. He had other professionals and I have a background that allowed me to evaluate dangers.

Sometimes, simply sitting with a person, helps.
Sometimes, holding hand helps. That one is amazing. Holding hands and talking.
Sometimes a hug helps. Hugs are preventive.

What we say matters. What we type matters.

Sometimes it is time to go to the Hospital.
If, we break a leg, then, we go to the hospital.

If, we lose a child, then, it may be hospital time.
If, we drink a beer with five hits of LSD in it, then, it may be hospital time.
If, life loses its meaning, then, it might be hospital time.
A brilliant man that had never flown a kite. Not hospital time. Time to fly a kite.

There is so much shame attached to needing help. There is so much satisfaction for everyone when we are able to help.

This one touched me. Most do.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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