0386: "Duty Calls"

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Shai
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Shai » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:26 pm UTC

mootinator wrote:And a plane on a treadmill matching the speed of the plane won't take off.


That depends on the plane. If the plane gets propulsion from jets, then the wheels are just there to reduce friction between the plane and the surface, causing the friction to be negligible. The wheels will end up spinning furiously but the plane's velocity will only depend on the propulsion.

Edit: Rats, this has been explained. I should read more of the thread. I'm just so bored :-/

Sorry.
I blame lag.

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby AvalonXQ » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:34 pm UTC

Clearly, the Gandalf vs. Jedi/Sith question is one that only GURPS can answer.
Somebody create the appropriate character sheets and fight 'em out.

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Maseiken
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Maseiken » Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:58 am UTC

I stand corrected on Speed Force/Flash Force.

As far as Batman/Superman goes, as I've said, batman wins because he's prepared for such a situation, arguing over whether he did it 'Fairly" or not when using his kryptonite suit is pointless, he was prepared for a scenario and folowed through on his plans, NOT using the suit would be stupid, and thus, not Batman.

Gandalf simply would not fight all the Jedi and Sith at once, for similar reasons, even if they were all dropped in middle earth, instilled with some kind of unifying desire to kill Gandalf (Which, btw, would make them all Sith/Dark Jedi, No Jedi would have reason to kill gandalf, and so, they wouldn't try, assuming they were Jedi, the second they let their emotions/desires/whatever override their self-control, they've taken the first steps off the road f the Jedi)

But even assuming all that happened, Gandalf would find the path of least resistance, he would seperate them from afar, lead them into traps, face them one by one, scare them off, and use various tricks, the only real trouble he'd have would be with Obi-Wan, Anakin/Vader, Windu, and Yoda, even palpatine wouldn't present much trouble, as his power resides mainly in his political machinations.

This is assuming they are on middle earth, but in the Star Wars universe I think it would be even easier, there are far more places to hide and run to, lead false trails, etc.

Gandalf would win, but he wouldn't face them all at once.


As for Spiderman vs. Batman, this, again, of course, depends on the battleground, while Spiderman is highly adaptable, Batman is not, outside of Gotham his tacical strength is greatly reduced. Spiderman could swing through Gotham much as easily as he could through New York. I think the crux of this battle lies in the capability for disengagement, it certainly wouldn't be over in one encounter.

In Gotham, Batman has the capability for disengagement, he can strike when least expected, shock and awe spidey and get in some good hits, then just fade away.

Anywhere else, Spidey has the upper hand, he's much faster and much stronger than Batman is.
But again, even in Gotham, much of batman's tactical strength is depleted, because Spiderman knows he's coming. No-ne ever knows batman's coming, they've shit their pants on four seperate occasions by the time they even know he's there. Not so with Spidey, he knows when danger is imminent and when it isn't, and will have a cool head, and a good idea of the direction batman's attack will come from when it comes.

I'm honestly not sure about this one, but if it happens anywhere but Gotham, i think Spidey has the upper hand.

In terms of a neutral battleground, no buildings, etc, he still has the advantage of his agility, and batman has no cover to take advantage of.


I'm thinkin' Spidey wins this round.
"GRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOWR!!!!"
(Translation: "Objection!")

Maseiken had the ball at the top of the key...

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Jest Phulin
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Jest Phulin » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:37 am UTC

Maseiken wrote:... arguing over whether he did it 'Fairly" or not when ...


Hm, reminds me of Pirates of the Carribean.
"I'd beat you in a fair fight."
"Well, then, I have no incentive to make it fair, do I?"

Or something like that.
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Ranfea
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Ranfea » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:20 am UTC

Aw snap (bananas).
Way to go Sparks, you broke the monitor and you're dead. Happy?

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby nightwing2024 » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:03 pm UTC

But...batman has incomparable ingenuity and problem-solving skill. Given Gotham as the battleground (much the same as NYC), Spidey has no terrain advantage, nor does the Bat.
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Vanishing Hitchhiker
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Vanishing Hitchhiker » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:08 pm UTC

Spider-man's a wuss and Batman is badass. QED, Batman wins.
could it be that she was the sister of the boy in Kansas who loved the girl with the tattered shawl who was the daughter of the maid who had escaped from the pirates?

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Maseiken
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Maseiken » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:28 am UTC

nightwing2024 wrote:But...batman has incomparable ingenuity and problem-solving skill. Given Gotham as the battleground (much the same as NYC), Spidey has no terrain advantage, nor does the Bat.

In that case, Spider-man has super strength and agility, Batman simply wouldn't keep up.
"GRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOWR!!!!"
(Translation: "Objection!")

Maseiken had the ball at the top of the key...

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby nightwing2024 » Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:08 pm UTC

Maseiken wrote:In that case, Spider-man has super strength and agility, Batman simply wouldn't keep up.


Batman has beaten villains with a strength and agility advantage before. Catwoman has obviously better speed and agility. Batman put that puss in the pen. (<3 alliteration) Clayface has the definite strength advantage. He can also shift his body into countless forms. He's now a puddle. Though I'm not entirely convinced about the agility part. Maybe Spidey can be more agile off the side of buildings, but I'm not entirely convinced.
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Your.Master
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Your.Master » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:44 pm UTC

Maybe I'm horribly out of date with the comic books world, but it's my impression that spidey's agility (and reflexes and balance) is far superhuman while catwoman is just an ordinary, albeit particularly agile, woman. So I don't think that's comparable. Also, ability to beat a character who has just superstrength and just superagility doesn't mean you have the ability to beat somebody with both.

You cannot catch Spiderman entirely by surprise, and in a "fair fight" Spiderman simply has an advantage over mortals. Batman is also missing his usual massive intellectual advantage here, since Spidey is pretty bright too. He is properly trained in martial arts, and Batman has an advantage with money, here. Spiderman could websling around buildings, but then Batman could try to ram him with the Batwing (spidey could probably dodge it because he'd know it was coming). Spiderman has to homebrew all of his equipment on a student's budget.

I'd say the good bet is on Spiderman. But considering that Superman has trouble with Lex Luthor even without kryptonite being involved, and Lex is just a smart rich man while Superman is far, far more powerful than anything, it isn't clear. Aside from Kryptonite, the only thing Spidey has on Superman is the spider-sense, and Supes probably more than makes up for it with his enhanced regular senses.

But then again...Batman has a problem with guns. If this was really a deathmatch and both sides knew it, would Peter have any problem just capping Bruce in the mouth (where there's no obvious possibility for body armour)?

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby FritzSands » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:24 pm UTC

Truly a memorable cartoon. Unlike some of my other favorites (Little Bobby Tables, for instance), I do not have to explain it to the non-techie people in my life.

I would love to see this on a tee-shirt or a coffee mug.

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby maelstrom » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:47 am UTC

Well, I'll put my vote in for Batman over any fictional character, for one reason - the whole point of Batman is that he represents how awesome we are (or at least, how awesome we think we are). He's the home team in a league of superhumans. I think any writer doing a Batman story wants to see Batman win, and if said writer doesn't, said writer is missing the point of Batman.

The only time I think I've seen Batman lose in any story is Red Son (the one with Russian Superman), and he still mostly gets his way.

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby nightwing2024 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:58 am UTC

I just think with his Martial art skill, Batman would just genuinely have the advantage in a fight.
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Maseiken
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Maseiken » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:51 am UTC

nightwing2024 wrote:
Maseiken wrote:In that case, Spider-man has super strength and agility, Batman simply wouldn't keep up.


Batman has beaten villains with a strength and agility advantage before. Catwoman has obviously better speed and agility. Batman put that puss in the pen. (<3 alliteration) Clayface has the definite strength advantage. He can also shift his body into countless forms. He's now a puddle. Though I'm not entirely convinced about the agility part. Maybe Spidey can be more agile off the side of buildings, but I'm not entirely convinced.

You're citing cases that have significant other advantages towards Batman.
First, Catwoman (as has been said) is not Super-human, she is above par, her... "Condition"? Keeps her at peak physical form and the best reflexes a person can have.
Spiderman is better, he can lift trucks, and sense events before they happen.

Also, Batman consitently beats down Catwoman because he's wise to her shit, same with pretty much all batman Villains, he knows how they think.

Maybe if Batman had a comprehensive history of Spidey (Including his secret Identity), or had beaten down with him on previous occasions, he could win.
But If Spidey rocked up in Gotham and Batman tried to start shit with him, he wouldn't stand a chance.
"GRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOWR!!!!"
(Translation: "Objection!")

Maseiken had the ball at the top of the key...

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby AvalonXQ » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:54 am UTC

Maseiken wrote:Maybe if Batman had a comprehensive history of Spidey (Including his secret Identity), or had beaten down with him on previous occasions, he could win.


Which, according to the Batman mythos and pattern, is exactly what would happen.
Spiderman would show up and beat Batman down, who would slink away into hiding and do his analysis. He'd figure out everything he needed to about Spidey, probably find some specific way to overcome the spider sense if necessary, and subsequently destroy him. He's Batman. He's smarter, he has more access to resources, and he's not limited by what inspired crap he can figure out on the fly. He thinks, he works, and he figures out how to win. There's no question as to who the eventual victor would be.

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Maseiken
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Maseiken » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:00 am UTC

Eventual.

As I said, in terms of a single fight, where Spidey was swinging around in Gotham and Batrman tried to start some shit, Spidey would beat the everloving crap out of him.
"GRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOWR!!!!"
(Translation: "Objection!")

Maseiken had the ball at the top of the key...

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Tyris and Cortle
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Tyris and Cortle » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:29 pm UTC

Your.Master wrote:and in a "fair fight" Spiderman simply has an advantage
Doesn't one participant having an advantage negate the idea of "fair fight"?
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby AvalonXQ » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:45 pm UTC

Maseiken wrote:Eventual.
As I said, in terms of a single fight, where Spidey was swinging around in Gotham and Batrman tried to start some shit, Spidey would beat the everloving crap out of him.


And, as I replied, Batman would escape from that fight, and continue it later, and win it.
You can't think of Batman in terms of a set of physical abilities in an arena. Batman's ability to analyze and adapt is Batman. Talking simply about the "first fight", and defining that first fight in terms such that it ends when Batman escapes to go analyze, is pretty much equal to setting up a battle between some hero and Professor Xavier and then saying, "Oh yeah, and Xavier can't use telepathy."

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby nightwing2024 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:26 pm UTC

In addition to the Bat being able to slink away and go analyze, Spidey has the history of letting his opponent disappear once he's trounced them. Then they come back, and stronger.

Ta-da.
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby lowbart » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:02 pm UTC

Unakau wrote:
Shadic wrote:
Unakau wrote:*Joke*

Wow, nice job referring to both The Great Gatsby, and 300 there. I'm impressed.

I was under the impression that referencing an obscure movie like 300 would be pretty impressive. I guess I was right.

But you.

You were wrong.


300 is obscure?
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Maseiken
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Maseiken » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:17 am UTC

AvalonXQ wrote:
Maseiken wrote:Eventual.
As I said, in terms of a single fight, where Spidey was swinging around in Gotham and Batrman tried to start some shit, Spidey would beat the everloving crap out of him.


And, as I replied, Batman would escape from that fight, and continue it later, and win it.
You can't think of Batman in terms of a set of physical abilities in an arena. Batman's ability to analyze and adapt is Batman. Talking simply about the "first fight", and defining that first fight in terms such that it ends when Batman escapes to go analyze, is pretty much equal to setting up a battle between some hero and Professor Xavier and then saying, "Oh yeah, and Xavier can't use telepathy."

Fine.

Begrudgingly.
"GRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOWR!!!!"
(Translation: "Objection!")

Maseiken had the ball at the top of the key...

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finbad
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby finbad » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:54 am UTC

When I saw this comic, I totally had to make an image.

It's not really finished yet, but I thought I'd post it anyway before the thread completely died.
Image

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Vanguard » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:45 pm UTC

Random query:

Does anyone /else/ use this comic on MULTIPLE forums when you see a disagreement or are PART of said disagreement?

I do.
Image

jdmack
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby jdmack » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:04 pm UTC

PZ Myers, in his blog today, gave the idea expressed in this comic a name - SIWOTI Syndrome!

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008 ... _his_n.php

J. D.

Random832
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Random832 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:21 pm UTC

Shai wrote:
mootinator wrote:And a plane on a treadmill matching the speed of the plane won't take off.


That depends on the plane. If the plane gets propulsion from jets, then the wheels are just there to reduce friction between the plane and the surface,


It's unclear to me what mechanism of propulsion you suppose would mean that the wheels have any other purpose.

causing the friction to be negligible.


You see, this is something we need to NOT claim, because then people who think it would work will say "ah-HAH! But friction does exist in reality, so it would work"

It has to be pointed out very clearly that increasing the velocity of the wheels does not increase the force due to friction.

Ff = μN - there is no "v" in there. (now, obviously you know this, but it's something I've run into in this argument before)

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Bored in the North » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:33 am UTC

It's quarter-past-two in the morning.

I've got in from the pub and just spent the past half an hour writing nearly 1,000 words on why the BBC's local news coverage for Cheshire is inadequate because some WRONG person said it wasn't on an inconsequential forum about radio stations.

I ended the post with that comic.

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Shukini » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:46 pm UTC

This comic need to be on a shirt

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OBloodyHell
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby OBloodyHell » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:39 pm UTC

Wrong title. It should be "Futility Muscles".

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby michael24easilybored » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:06 pm UTC

I hate to admit this, but sometimes I like to be stupid online on purpose, simply because in some sick way I get a sense of satisfaction knowing that somewhere out there is a geek who is very frustrated at my ignorance. This usually manifests itself in youtube posts and denying things on wikipedia discussion pages.

I'm aware that this probably makes me seem quite sad. :)

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby I Zimbra » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

I'm bringing this back from the dead because Kevin Smith threw out a reference to it in his interview with The Onion this week. Which is cool.
Take your play seriously

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby dharmamama » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:07 pm UTC

Just came across this Onion article - http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27836

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby kriel » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:00 am UTC


Blaze Krakaros
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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby Blaze Krakaros » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:11 am UTC

I was just about to say that this got aped by C&H, but I was sarnathed.

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Re: "Duty Calls" Discussion

Postby KairosDrasis » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:29 pm UTC

*currently 5:30 here* I should go to bed soon.

And a plane on a treadmill matching the speed of the plane won't take off.

You mean "what happens if you take a plane that can’t move and move it?" right?
http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/09/09/the-god ... treadmill/
(Sorry mods for breaking the 5 post link rule. I'm going to try to loophole saying since its an internal link to xkcd its ok. If that doesn't fly then I would have to say: "go to the blog and type treadmill into the search and click the first link." We all agree that the result is the same, but posting a link is much much easier. Also I don't understand this rule at all)

I'm in group 5 and 3 simultaneously...

Batman always wins. Anybody versus anybody, Batman wins? Yoda vs. Superman? Batman wins. Goku vs. Jesus? Batman wins. It's the way of the world.


What about Batman vs. Himself? How does he succeed in failing, and fail to succeed at the same time?

Also Batman... sucks.
Punisher is a much better hero. Its like the Batman... without the gay. Batman has rules; Punisher has none. (I love my use of incorrect grammar; specifically ellipses)
But truthfully Superman sucks worse. I could kill superman. All I would need is a bunch of Kryptonite, which is available in any super-villain's super-market in mass quantities.

And finally Windows 7 kills any OS with a giant knife. Vista was ok, XP was good. Combine the speed of XP and double the looks of Vista. Puts any Mac/Linux to shame. (also for some insane reason I've got all 5 installed on my computer, I've compared them all)

</troll>

Whee fun. Also agree that we need a shirt of this. Anyone want to make a poll?

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Re: 0386: "Duty Calls"

Postby eGtjZA » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:32 am UTC

We need to start a 'someone is wrong on the internet' hall of fame.

I'd like to propose this collection from Slashdot as the first exhibit
(http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3072491&pid=41124909&threshold=0)

Re: World's Greatest Pioneer by catchblue22
He had The Right Stuff [imdb.com].
I really used to like that movie. Ed Harris as Neil Armstrong. ...
    - Re: Ok. Scratch my post. It was John Glenn in that movie, not Neil Armstrong ...
      - Re: Thanks for the self-correction. Note that it still didn't ...
    - Re: Well, except for the part that Ed Harris was actually John Glenn ...
    - Re: Actually, Ed Harris was John Glenn.
    - Re: Ed Harris played John Glenn
    - Re: Um, sorry to burst your bubble, but Ed Harris played John Glenn ...
    - Re: Umm. Ed Harris portrayed John Glenn - first American to orbit ...
    - Re: Ed Harris played John Glenn. Neil Armstrong was in the astronaut ...
    - Ed Harris was *John Glenn*
    - Re: You're thinking of John Glenn.
    - Re: One thing I really got out of that movie was how NASA originally ...
    - Re: I'm afraid that Ed Harris played John Glenn, not Neil Armstrong.
    - Re: Just a bit of correct is needed here. Ed Harris portrayed ...
    - Re: Niel Amstrong was not a Mercury astronaut and Ed Harris played ...
    - Re: Actually, Ed Harris was cast as John Glenn (as per your IMDB link)
    - Re: Harris played John Glenn.
    - Re: Ed Harris played John Glenn. The Right Stuff was about the ...
    - Re: Ed Harris played John Glenn. Neil was not one of the original ...
    - Re: You're thinking of John Glenn. Neil Armstrong was not one of the ...
    - Re: Er... Ed Harris played John Glenn. I don't think Armstrong was ...
    - Re: dude... Ed Harris played John Glenn. Niel Armstrong wasn't ...
    - Re: No, Ed Harris's character was John Glenn.

Looks like that's 20 people staying up late.

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Re: 0386: "Duty Calls"

Postby jaronflick » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:47 pm UTC

Agree - this needs to be a shirt! I have people who would need it! (Not me of course.)
We wait for it. It does not wait for us.

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Davidy
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Re: 0386: "Duty Calls"

Postby Davidy » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:34 am UTC

Ha ha u sayed "duty"
"It's only funny until someone loses an eye, then it's still funny but they can only see it in 2-D."

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chalkie
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Re: 0386: "Duty Calls"

Postby chalkie » Fri May 23, 2014 5:23 am UTC

From Cory Doctorow on BoingBoing
Mitchell sez, "On May 14 the California Court of Appeal issued an opinion [PDF] in Digital Music News v. Superior Court, relating to copyright infringement litigation over Grooveshark. The opinion, which held that website owners don't have to turn over the identities of anonymous commenters, drops an XKCD reference near its end: 'We will not lightly lend the subpoena power of the courts to prove, in essence, that Someone Is Wrong On The Internet.'"

I confess I was slightly sceptical, but sure enough, on the last page its right there
... no indicium of reliability and little weight. We will not lightly lend the subpoena power
of the courts to prove, in essence, that Someone Is Wrong On The Internet.
Given our holdings above, we decline to address Digital’s argument that routinely
deleted data controlled by a non-party cannot be subject to forensic examination under
the principles of electronic discovery.
(I didn't add the italics; they're in the court paper.)

I know I've essentially only reposted a discovery from elsewhere, but I think its worth having a link from the original xkcd to the court document.

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Various Varieties
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Re: 0386: "Duty Calls"

Postby Various Varieties » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:01 pm UTC

I was reading this Guardian article on Richard Dawkins, and found out that he's aware of this xkcd strip - although he attributes it to The New Yorker:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015 ... reputation

For Dawkins, the science has always come first; his atheism is simply a natural extension of a lifelong quest to do Darwin’s work on Earth. As for the suggestion his public interventions over the past few years have done more harm than good – both to himself and his cause: “That does worry me,” Dawkins conceded, and yet he cannot quite resist the urge to wade in. “I think there is a curious desire in humans, maybe not all humans but certainly in me, to put things right,” he said. “There’s a joke in the New Yorker or something like that, of a man at a computer. It’s obviously very late and his wife is begging him to come to bed. He’s saying, ‘I can’t come to bed. Somebody’s wrong on the internet.’”

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Re: 0386: "Duty Calls"

Postby Mikeski » Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:33 pm UTC

Various Varieties wrote:I was reading this Guardian article on Richard Dawkins, and found out that he's aware of this xkcd strip - although he attributes it to The New Yorker:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015 ... reputation

Bah! Someone is being wrong on the Internet about being wrong on the Internet! Now I'll never get to sleep!!


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