0438: "Internet Argument"

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Vanishing Hitchhiker
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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby Vanishing Hitchhiker » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:23 pm UTC

Quixotess wrote:Too often in this comic, the women act as non-characters who only serve to contribute to the character development or other part of life of the men. This was why I liked Choices so much--finally, a story without men to balance all the ones without women.


You're reading too much into it. Hair takes longer to draw.

I'll agree with JET73L about Internet arguments being easier to avoid than real life arguments. On the Internet you can ignore the jackasses and try to have an intelligent discussion between/around/over their posts; but in real life my bitch of a mother-in-law will keep yelling and bitching after you even after you attempt to end the argument and leave.

Erm.
could it be that she was the sister of the boy in Kansas who loved the girl with the tattered shawl who was the daughter of the maid who had escaped from the pirates?

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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby prozacgod » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:39 pm UTC

yeah this is so totally true

*puts cell iphone down ,flips off guy he just cut off who's flipping him off*

Yeah so much easier when it words, thats why I never insult people online.
I'd post more but people are starting to honk, I can't believe the fuck-tards driving these days

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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby Belial » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:01 pm UTC

SneakyMongo wrote:Everyone in any internet discussion has a PhD in the field under discussion, and everyone online has an IQ of 140.


....heh....

::actually does have an IQ of >140. And the neat piece of diagnostic-testing breakdown and 10 page report to prove it. Not that he expects you to believe him::

::No PhD, though::


Day Tripper wrote:
Quixotess wrote:Too often in this comic, the women act as non-characters who only serve to contribute to the character development or other part of life of the men.


In this case I respectfully disagree, since the presumably male character also has a one-shot role to fulfill a storyline.


While this is technically true, it makes a more interesting statement if you assume this comic to be part of a larger narrative (not pictured). In that case, the menfolk are having a story, and the woman swoops in to change something, make the men into better people or whatever, and sweep out.

Which does seem to be a common theme. Even Journal Girl is just part of BHG's story. Someone who changes him.

That said, Elaine Tables was also a big female character in the comic.
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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby Air » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:07 pm UTC

Quixotess wrote:*grouse grouse*

Too often in this comic, the women act as non-characters who only serve to contribute to the character development or other part of life of the men. This was why I liked Choices so much--finally, a story without men to balance all the ones without women.

*grouse grouse*


1337 series?

EDIT Oh, Belial said it already.

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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby EsotericWombat » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:39 pm UTC

Also, it seems like the womenfolk are the only ones who get names
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby JunglePredator » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:39 pm UTC

Well I don't know where he lives but it's certainly not North America... there's plenty of assholes here.
Poisoning everyone in the bars on Friday night would reduce the asshole count by like 1,000 people (you'd only get the young assholes... there's plenty of older assholes around here).

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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby FirewithFire » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:11 pm UTC

Ahhhh, so true. Love this comic and how it reminds most of us when argueing, just how different it is in real life. You don't go swearing and shouting at the other people, (you shouldn't) instead you try and get out of the argument and into an agreement as quickly as possible. Good lesson this one is.
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Turiya » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:37 pm UTC

CatProximity wrote:There should have been a panel of them standing and looking at each other for a moment feeling awkward.


I thought exactly the same thing upon my first look at the comic--it seemed to be almost missing a panel, but then I figured that the seventh one is supposed to convey that meaning although it probably would have been more obvious had Flying Girl not been shown in that one.

(As an aside, am I the only one who is impressed by Randall's perfect side-views of office chairs?)

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My solution is to be an ass all of the time. :twisted:
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Belial » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:00 pm UTC

EsotericWombat wrote:Also, it seems like the womenfolk are the only ones who get names


Bobby tables.
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Sandry » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:11 pm UTC

Also "Bob" in the Alice and Bob one...

So all men are named "Bob", I guess.
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Steve the Pocket » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:42 pm UTC

In before "INTERNET: SERIOUS BUSINESS"

xkcd is like the antidote to the cancer that is killing [insert favorite website here].
cephalopod9 wrote:Only on Xkcd can you start a topic involving Hitler and people spend the better part of half a dozen pages arguing about the quality of Operating Systems.

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Jiggsy
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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby Jiggsy » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:05 am UTC

Jest Phulin wrote:Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still an idiot.


I don't mean to have a go at you, honest, but the quote is actually "Even if you win, you're still retarded."

Essentially, even without meaning it, you've said that all those amazingly talented (if slightly disadvantaged, which some would still argue) athletes, are idiots. Saying they're retarded, of course, is much better. =)
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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby nyeguy » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:07 am UTC

Jiggsy wrote:
Jest Phulin wrote:Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still an idiot.


I don't mean to have a go at you, honest, but the quote is actually "Even if you win, you're still retarded."

Spoiler:
1129664908219.jpg
1129664908219.jpg (30.93 KiB) Viewed 7023 times


Anyway, I definitely agree with this comic. There have been arguments where my friends have been involved on the other side, and I found I just didn't react to him the same as most people. I try to stay civil towards everyone, but it was more natural towards people I knew.
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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby sk8ingdom » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:39 am UTC

Quixotess wrote:*grouse grouse*

Too often in this comic, the women act as non-characters who only serve to contribute to the character development or other part of life of the men. This was why I liked Choices so much--finally, a story without men to balance all the ones without women.

*grouse grouse*


You seemed to have missed my post on page 1; I think it could be the girl from the choices series, in between the two periods of existence we've already witnessed. Maybe sometime after flying a kite, she went on a flight with strangers to China, where she found a wizard in a large green field that granted her the power of flight! Maybe that's just my story, or maybe yours! There is really no way of knowing! We all seem to make up our own stories, I like it that way. Except when we make up stories that make us sad, which you may have done :( You should be the architect of your own reality! It's fun!

I seem to be less argumentative on the internet purely because I overwhelm myself. I read a short post, and begin writing a response. It's never immediately what I want, and as a result, I begin doing research, editing, and eventually writing a grand narrative, or a thesis, or...etc. I have a repository of probably 200+ unfinished forum replies and blog posts that probably average 500+ words each. I very rarely get to finish what I started due to work and school. I wish there was more time!

In "real life" (ha! the real/digital dichotomy!), I don't have the infinite resources of the internet (usually) at my disposal. I'm typically armed with a beer, and my meat servo (brain!). I'm the guy that sits at the back of a party or with four or five other people debating the nature and purpose of existence, government structures, global inequity, etc. By the end of the night, we typically have a small crowd of silent observers wondering how the argument will resolve; it never does. This is my type of place. The internet is just so disconnected.

Did I mention I suck at dancing?

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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby Eugo » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:38 am UTC

Belial wrote:While this is technically true, it makes a more interesting statement if you assume this comic to be part of a larger narrative (not pictured). In that case, the menfolk are having a story, and the woman swoops in to change something, make the men into better people or whatever, and sweep out.

Which does seem to be a common theme. Even Journal Girl is just part of BHG's story. Someone who changes him.


But look at it the other way - the males are featureless, neutral. Or rather, the featureless and neutral characters are assumed to be male, but are we really sure? The female ones have at least one outstanding feature that distinguishes them.
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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby ANorthernSoul » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:04 am UTC

Herein lies the futility of the Internet Argument:

If you are 'wrong', you are derided by your opponents as an idiot.
You disagree and are right anyway.

If you are 'partially wrong', you and your detractors end up engaged in a disagreement which rarely yields any results other than 1) neither of you seeming to have credible arguments, or 2) a stand-off where you concede that both sides have points [see 1)].
You stubbornly cling to the fact that many of your points are right anyway.

If you are 'right', then nobody who disagrees posts anything to the contrary, and eventually your 100% cogent argument is ignored, then washed away by off-topic comments or people responding to earlier posts.
You are right anyway.

Then again, I base all this on my experiences of trying to 'debate' with football (soccer) fans online. Perhaps the more high-brow sites display different arguments, but based on what I've seen here before, it's just a more intelligent level of derision / disagreement / ignorance of 'facts'.

Opinions are notoriously resistant to change. It's why bigots remain bigots, despite evidence of the irrational nature of their beliefs.

How many times do you read a post anywhere that is contrary to your point of view and think, "Actually, they're right."?

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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Scigatt » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:18 am UTC

The girl in this comic reminds of the song Given to Fly, especially the first line of the second verse.

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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby the tree » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:34 am UTC

ANorthernSoul wrote:How many times do you read a post anywhere that is contrary to your point of view and think, "Actually, they're right."?
Occasionally. Some things just aren't a matter of opinion and can be decided upon, disagreeing with those things just makes you a dick.
Also yes, I have seen some damn fine arguments on the Internet that have changed the way I look at things or at least make me step down from my pedestal.
Belial wrote:
EsotericWombat wrote:Also, it seems like the womenfolk are the only ones who get names

Bobby tables.
This I read originally as Booby Tables and I thought it was some reasoning for why only the women get names, it confused me greatly.

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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby Random832 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:28 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Day Tripper wrote:In this case I respectfully disagree, since the presumably male character also has a one-shot role to fulfill a storyline.


While this is technically true, it makes a more interesting statement if you assume this comic to be part of a larger narrative (not pictured).


We don't know whose larger narrative it is, though - one could just as easily say that the bald stick figures are just props in the story of her quest to right the wrongs of the internet, one person at a time. We have to remember that in reality, everyone has their own story... and in this case no-one's is depicted outside this one episode.

That said, Elaine Tables was also a big female character in the comic.


Their last name is "Roberts" - "Bobby Tables" is a nickname based on the character's full name being Robert');DROP TABLE Students;-- Roberts.

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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby ANorthernSoul » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:52 pm UTC

the tree wrote:
ANorthernSoul wrote:How many times do you read a post anywhere that is contrary to your point of view and think, "Actually, they're right."?
Occasionally. Some things just aren't a matter of opinion and can be decided upon, disagreeing with those things just makes you a dick.
Also yes, I have seen some damn fine arguments on the Internet that have changed the way I look at things or at least make me step down from my pedestal.

Actually, you're right. :D
I have occasionally found exactly the same, but it tends to be concerning the more high-brow discussions found here or on similar sites.

But try going on Internet Movie Database, and going to the forum of your favourite film, and explaining to someone who thinks one of your favourite films "sucks" why it doesn't, just because it doesn't have {explosions / Holywood A-list stars / believable plot / English-spoken dialogue } [delete as applicable].

Then again, it's probably better to avoid those forums entirely...
Last edited by ANorthernSoul on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:00 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby savage » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:14 pm UTC

Actually, my first thought was that Randall had been watching too many Public Service Announcements. Especially when I moused over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seOQyMvG99w
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Commander Bob » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:43 pm UTC

muffin of doom wrote:Wow, I totally didn't get what was going on in this comic until I read the alt-text. Who exactly is the flying girl?


Lynne Truss.

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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby pcmattman » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:18 am UTC

I almost got into an internet argument today. Almost. Meaning I narrowly avoided it.

Pro tip: Don't diss someone's country in IRC.
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Steve the Pocket » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:04 pm UTC

Commander Bob wrote:
muffin of doom wrote:Wow, I totally didn't get what was going on in this comic until I read the alt-text. Who exactly is the flying girl?

Lynne Truss.

Whoa. Dude.

I'm kind of surprised there haven't been any direct references to Lynne Truss in xkcd yet, now that you bring her up.
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby jakerman999 » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:45 am UTC

seems to me this is a direct sequel to http://xkcd.com/386/
that, and/or the girl from http://xkcd.com/267/
met up with the top guy from this comic http://xkcd.com/353/



on second thought, isn't introducing someone to someone your fighting something that classhole's girlfriend would do?
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby pegasos989 » Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:04 am UTC

pcmattman wrote:Pro tip: Don't diss someone's country in IRC.


Haha! I'm not surprised that an AUSTRALIAN would say that. Your country is so big and useless that it makes your mom look good in comparison. The place was supposed to be upside down but most of you can't even walk on your hands. The only good things that have ever came out of Australia are Blunty3000 (And he hates your child) and cockatiels (which I got to admit to be effing awesome). I would insult your flag but I don't even know what it looks like and neither does anyone else here.

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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby VelociraptorEvader » Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:26 am UTC

pegasos989 wrote:
pcmattman wrote:Pro tip: Don't diss someone's country in IRC.


Haha! I'm not surprised that an AUSTRALIAN would say that. Your country is so big and useless that it makes your mom look good in comparison. The place was supposed to be upside down but most of you can't even walk on your hands. The only good things that have ever came out of Australia are Blunty3000 (And he hates your child) and cockatiels (which I got to admit to be effing awesome). I would insult your flag but I don't even know what it looks like and neither does anyone else here.


that's what she said
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Jiggsy » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:38 pm UTC

VelociraptorEvader wrote:
pegasos989 wrote:
pcmattman wrote:Pro tip: Don't diss someone's country in IRC.


Haha! I'm not surprised that an AUSTRALIAN would say that. Your country is so big and useless that it makes your mom look good in comparison. The place was supposed to be upside down but most of you can't even walk on your hands. The only good things that have ever came out of Australia are Blunty3000 (And he hates your child) and cockatiels (which I got to admit to be effing awesome). I would insult your flag but I don't even know what it looks like and neither does anyone else here.


that's what she said


That's what his Mum said... While i was Banging her...

EDIT: You know, hearing someone you're banging say that would be... rather... confusing. Would you go harder? Or go home? :D
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Wondrej » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:37 pm UTC

well i think THIS picture explains everything
there was a light, then earth, then human, then simpsons, then futurama and then... sudenly xkcd apear!

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Re: "Internet Arguement" Discussion

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:26 pm UTC

Quixotess wrote:*grouse grouse*

Too often in this comic, the women act as non-characters who only serve to contribute to the character development or other part of life of the men. This was why I liked Choices so much--finally, a story without men to balance all the ones without women.

*grouse grouse*


moar balance: LIGHTHOUSE.

really i think this place is pretty good with gender. really.

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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Belial » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:32 pm UTC

True story. And on the rather rare occasion that he fucks it up even slightly, he tends to apologize for it.

::was still pretty mystified when Randy randomly and independently materialized on Hoyden to apologize for a comic::

Randy: pretty good at gender.

That said, Quixotess is still somewhat right about the comic being a bit male centric.

It is, after all, written by a male, with a fair number of ostensibly-but-not-really "author's life" first person comics. Thus, there is an imbalance.

Just...uh...not as much of one as you'd expect. Which is nice.
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Quixotess » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:12 pm UTC

Yeah. It's mostly much better than most things. Really. I mean, I'm here, aren't I?

Thus the *grouse grouse*
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby zaqwithaq » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:04 am UTC

Besides agreeing that it is easier to bash someone over the internets,

I honestly came here to ask this:....was i the only one that thought shell silverstien when i saw this...

the kids books not the other stuff, seriously Missing Piece was one of my favorite books......ever i might even say.....
I don't know why,

i have these moments where everything seems to work....and i trust them..... that moment died as I was writing this.....blarg.....
Spoiler:
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Elvish Pillager » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:23 am UTC

I didn't think of Shel Silverstein, but, well - the style of the stories he tells with pictures alone, definitely bears a resemblance to this comic's.
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby william » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:38 pm UTC

Magritte's Apple wrote:
Rememer, the people you talk to on the internet are real people


And probably do not infact have rooms with posters of <insert random dictator here>

Except possibly a photo of Che Guevara*, and most people don't even know who that is anyways.
Wes Janson wrote:<description of communist thought snipped>, and quote "An IED a day keeps the Yankees away".

Needless to say, physical violence was indeed tempting.

...Just saying.

*Yeah, he wasn't actually a dictator, but he is pretty closely associated with Castro et al.
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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby mythomanic_jef » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:14 pm UTC

SeventhBetaRelease wrote:
You're right, it is. That would probably cause an Internet Argument itself. :mrgreen:


No it FUCKING wouldn't. [/irony?]

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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby suzycreamcheese » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:14 pm UTC

Welcome to Internet Argument Club. There are a few rules.

Rule One: You cannot win an argument on the internet.
Second rule: YOU CANNOT WIN AN ARGUMENT ON THE INTERNET (and all caps just make
things worse.)
Third rule: If you think you can restrict an argument to only two people,
you're mental.
Fourth rule: Shirts, shoes -- whatever, just don't tell us how you're dressed.
Fifth rule: Arguments will go on way longer than they have to.
Sixth rule: When someone taps out, types "whatever", or logs off; the
argument will on without them.
And the seventh and final rule of Internet Argument Club is: if this is your
first time, you have to fight.

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Re: Internet Argument Discussion

Postby Timoi » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Someone who reads xkcd also reads New Scientist!* :o

From 28 March 2009 on a Last Word question about why people attack each other on the internet:

Thanks to John Noble of Melbourne, Australia, who doesn't know the answer, but points to an artist who does: http://www.xkcd.com/438/ - Ed


So well done to John Noble for getting xkcd into a reputable magazine, and hence showing that they are not actually reputable at all.

*apart from me

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Re: 0438: "Internet Argument"

Postby YTPrenewed » Tue May 01, 2018 11:18 pm UTC

This comic reminds me of Twitch. When they can actually see the face and hear the voice of the chatroom's host, they're a little more civil to each other, even though they themselves are anonymous.

There's another factor worth considering, though. The "publish first, scrutinize later" tendencies of it bring out their dishonesty and depravity at the same time, which on the worst sites makes you feel like you'd rather troll that cesspool than be sincere with them like a sucker. And then you develop habits that carry over elsewhere anyway.

We could blame anonymity, but Facebook's shown people troll with their real names too. Let's not leave people at the mercy of a medium known to smear people, with their real names out there for all to see, only for trolling to continue anyway.


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