0471: "Aversion Fads"

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Random832
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Random832 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:49 pm UTC

There's also the fact that someone who goes to 4chan to post furry stuff is probably doing so with their eyes open, meaning they know exactly what kind of reaction it's going to get and are probably in fact trying to get that reaction.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby vodka.cobra » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:52 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:There's also the fact that someone who goes to 4chan to post furry stuff is probably doing so with their eyes open, meaning they know exactly what kind of reaction it's going to get and are probably in fact trying to get that reaction.

Yep. That's why I stop posting guro after 3* pictures if I don't get a whiny "go away leave us alone we're victims" reaction. If no reaction is given, the scat/gore/guro has no effect on them anyway. If they react differently, I'm likely to get trolled back.

* - Rule of thumb.
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Mane » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:54 pm UTC

vodka.cobra wrote:
Mane wrote:
vodka.cobra wrote:I ninja'd in an edit before you responded. :P

*dies*

but my point still stands, but I can understand your point as well.

Which begs the question, why don't you troll out side of 4chan?

Ah, you're begging the question? *FALLACY!*

Just kidding.

I do often troll outside of 4chan, but I tend to leave furries alone. The only time I ever really encounter furries are on 4chan (or when one emails me :\). The exception is that one of my friends from high school was into it, and I never mocked him maliciously for it. (I have jokingly, but only like once or twice.)

You're encountering them right now, in fact, I'd wager you encounter them everyday on every forum you may post on.

But the problem is, people DO mock people Maliciously for it, and it's part of the reason a lot of furries have the complex they do.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby vodka.cobra » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:59 pm UTC

Mane wrote:
vodka.cobra wrote:
Mane wrote:
vodka.cobra wrote:I ninja'd in an edit before you responded. :P

*dies*

but my point still stands, but I can understand your point as well.

Which begs the question, why don't you troll out side of 4chan?

Ah, you're begging the question? *FALLACY!*

Just kidding.

I do often troll outside of 4chan, but I tend to leave furries alone. The only time I ever really encounter furries are on 4chan (or when one emails me :\). The exception is that one of my friends from high school was into it, and I never mocked him maliciously for it. (I have jokingly, but only like once or twice.)

You're encountering them right now, in fact, I'd wager you encounter them everyday on every forum you may post on.

Yes, but I'm encountering them, not their porn. :P
Mane wrote:But the problem is, people DO mock people Maliciously for it, and it's part of the reason a lot of furries have the complex they do.

And I think people like that are stupid zealous morons. I think I've said that enough times in this topic for it to go without saying from this point forward.
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby SJ Zero » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:07 pm UTC

Why? Hate-speech is Hate-speech, You wouldn't want Neo-nazis going about yelling about Jews or the KKK going around discriminating against people of African descent.


Because we established a first principle of minimising suffering. The logical conclusion of this first principle is that both sides ought to express themselves in moderation, keeping both their own and the others feelings in mind.

Another first principle is required to come to the conclusion that hate speech ought to be banned entirely.

Ethics is a structured field of study, different from morality. Morality can say "Hate speech is wrong" without anything before it. Ethics requires underlying principles or it's meaningless, within the incredibly narrow definition of "meaning" in any philosophical endeavor.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby vodka.cobra » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:10 pm UTC

SJ Zero wrote:
Why? Hate-speech is Hate-speech, You wouldn't want Neo-nazis going about yelling about Jews or the KKK going around discriminating against people of African descent.


Because we established a first principle of minimising suffering. The logical conclusion of this first principle is that both sides ought to express themselves in moderation, keeping both their own and the others feelings in mind.

Another first principle is required to come to the conclusion that hate speech ought to be banned entirely.

Ethics is a structured field of study, different from morality. Morality can say "Hate speech is wrong" without anything before it. Ethics requires underlying principles or it's meaningless.

Bah! Accursed logic! Why should we use your philosophical nonsense when we can rely on emotional convictions and truthiness?

[/sarcasm]
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Mane » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:15 pm UTC

SJ Zero wrote:
Why? Hate-speech is Hate-speech, You wouldn't want Neo-nazis going about yelling about Jews or the KKK going around discriminating against people of African descent.


Because we established a first principle of minimising suffering. The logical conclusion of this first principle is that both sides ought to express themselves in moderation, keeping both their own and the others feelings in mind.

Another first principle is required to come to the conclusion that hate speech ought to be banned entirely.

Ethics is a structured field of study, different from morality. Morality can say "Hate speech is wrong" without anything before it. Ethics requires underlying principles or it's meaningless, within the incredibly narrow definition of "meaning" in any philosophical endeavor.

I highly doubt that furries will be more likely to run around in fursuits after hate speech is banned, we don't see millions of homosexuals getting married here in Canada even though it's legal. People don't react that way.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby SJ Zero » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:19 pm UTC

Mane wrote:I highly doubt that furries will be more likely to run around in fursuits after hate speech is banned, we don't see millions of homosexuals getting married here in Canada even though it's legal. People don't react that way.


Um...Good for you. Your point is a complete non-sequitur. I see absolutely no connection between my statements and yours unless I twist what I said to make inferences that I never make.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Kaelin » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:29 pm UTC

There's so much going on here, I'll just react to what I remember.

1) It's reasonable to believe most people (or at least Western males) have a proclivity/fetish/paraphilia. I mean, just consider how many males consume (or desire to consume) porn, even "normal" porn [a Kinsey report from back in the '50s showed 54% of the men surveyed were aroused by porn] -- even if it's consensually recorded and distributed, it's still vouyerism.

2) Regarding people finding "gay pride" offensive, it's worth noting noting that GLBs are somewhat unique in that they also face additional discrimination from the government. There isn't anything in law that prevents two furry lovers from getting married assuming all other criteria is satisfied, but two homosexual lovers (by virtue of being the same gender) cannot get married except in a short list of US states. Keep in mind that marriage entitles people to a wide range of perks (social security benefits, visitation/parental rights, and typically tax benefits), so this crap matters.

3) Regarding free speech, you do have some right to criticize people (such as furries), but it's generally asinine to do so. If someone approaches you on a personal/controversial matter, sure, you are entitled to rip them on that topic a bit. But note that even if people are tacitly expressing something you find offensive (wearing a particular style but not actively engaging nonconsenting others on the matter), you don't have the right to harass or stalk them. If someone is protesting, then you've got a little more freedom, but again, discretion dictates how much you really should go after them (and even then, it's usually not worth the trouble to confront them directly, because you are usually going alone against a large mob).

4) It's not worth getting hung up on a small group that's not particularly influential or disruptive. Really.

5) These political conventions are freakin' nuts. And with respect to topic #4, these political parties are both influenial and disruptive (even just these conventions are getting live coverage on the basic TV channels, and the speakers at these events are generally just disseminating worthless talking points).

6) Randall is so awesome, I actually bothered registering.

Personally, I'm indifferent towards furries...

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Mane » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:42 pm UTC

SJ Zero wrote:
Mane wrote:I highly doubt that furries will be more likely to run around in fursuits after hate speech is banned, we don't see millions of homosexuals getting married here in Canada even though it's legal. People don't react that way.


Um...Good for you. Your point is a complete non-sequitur. I see absolutely no connection between my statements and yours unless I twist what I said to make inferences that I never make.

err, I was replying to the whole "The logical conclusion of this first principle is that both sides ought to express themselves in moderation, keeping both their own and the others feelings in mind." With my point being that furries already tend to express themselves in moderation outside of select cons and websites.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby SJ Zero » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:11 pm UTC

Mane wrote:err, I was replying to the whole "The logical conclusion of this first principle is that both sides ought to express themselves in moderation, keeping both their own and the others feelings in mind." With my point being that furries already tend to express themselves in moderation outside of select cons and websites.


My statement doesn't really say anything as to the current situation, who is right and who is wrong, it only presents a logically derived truth from an ethical first principle.

Frankly, I've never had an upsetting situation involving a furry. I don't have any reason to feel any sort of animosity towards them. I've never trolled them either. Some of their practices and philosophies are a bit strange, but I'd say that's true about most people I see. People around the world pretend that political parties have logically consistent philosophies, and I find that far more offensive than anything furries can come up with.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby fishyfish777 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:14 pm UTC

Anyone notice Randall leaning towards to the relationship/porn type of comic every 2 comics there is?

I don't like it.
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:19 pm UTC

fishyfish777 wrote:Anyone notice Randall leaning towards to the relationship/porn type of comic every 2 comics there is?

I don't like it.

Well, we'll miss you when you stop reading.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Sair » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:06 pm UTC

Mane wrote:Why? Hate-speech is Hate-speech, You wouldn't want Neo-nazis going about yelling about Jews or the KKK going around discriminating against people of African descent.

Neo-nazis yell about Jews and plenty of other things all the time. They have every right to, at least in this country.

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:
fishyfish777 wrote:Anyone notice Randall leaning towards to the relationship/porn type of comic every 2 comics there is?

I don't like it.

Well, we'll miss you when you stop reading.

YOUR OPINION IS INVALID BECAUSE I DISAGREE.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby vodka.cobra » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:18 pm UTC

Sair wrote:
Mane wrote:Why? Hate-speech is Hate-speech, You wouldn't want Neo-nazis going about yelling about Jews or the KKK going around discriminating against people of African descent.

Neo-nazis yell about Jews and plenty of other things all the time. They have every right to, at least in this country.

Yep, and I have every right to yell obscenities at them.

I came up with a shirt idea once that said, "I'm not a neo-Nazi, I'm OLD-SCHOOL!" but thought it was more offensive than funny.
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby SJ Zero » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:47 pm UTC

Hate speech is a slippery and arbitrary slope.

If you can't say bad things because you're the KKK, does that mean you can't say bad things about the kkk? If not, why not?

If you can say bad things about the kkk, can you say bad things about the Indian Posse, the racist Canadian street gang made up entirely of natives? If not, why not?

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby william » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:54 pm UTC

RaptorAttack wrote:
RobotNixon wrote:comic


The funny thing is, the guy who cared enough to create that long-winded, excessively opinionated comic is probably just as insufferable as the worst of the overly defensive furries.

"What do my opinions need? Pictures of just two not-particularly-well-drawn characters saying a conversation tilted towards my political beliefs!"

Look at Scott McCloud's Google Chrome comic. That is an effective use of images to convey information.
Look at Kathy Sierra's blog Creating Passionate Users. That is an effective use of images to convey information.
That comic is an expression of the author's self-importance.
As for furries and /b/, yes, it's idiotic for someone to go on /b/

You didn't need the rest of that sentence.
, try to defend some kind of alternative interest, and not expect it to get totally smacked down.


goldenstrand wrote:So your not allowed to hate furries, and you can only at most frown slightly at the milder otherkin. What about the crazier otherkin, the ones that believe themselves to be reincarnations of Lord of the Rings type elves, or otakukin. Can I still hate someone that truly believes they are in fact Goku from DBZ, trapped in a pudgy man's body? I need to know the social etiquette here. Could someone please be my Miss Manners of hate?

If somebody really believes themselves to be a reincarnation of a specific anime character, they don't deserve hate, they deserve pity. But I'm not convinced they exist.
vodka.cobra wrote:
Mane wrote:But the problem is, people DO mock people Maliciously for it, and it's part of the reason a lot of furries have the complex they do.

And I think people like that are stupid zealous morons. I think I've said that enough times in this topic for it to go without saying from this point forward.

And I think you're part of the problem.

As for the KKK, they've used voter intimidation and they've killed people. That's on a completely different level.
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby xydexx » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:05 pm UTC

Long time reader, first time poster. (Hi!)

Some thoughts, in a nutshell:

  • Furry fandom: Some people just don't get it. Others have mentioned it already, but some folks still haven't gotten the memo: Furry fandom is about fictional anthropomorphic animal characters (commonly known as furries). Most often expressed via writing and artwork and costuming interests, so generally it's a lot more like a sci-fi or anime convention than a gathering of fetishists (at least in my decade+ experience as a con veteran :D ). Watching the discussion in this thread revolve around flawed premises how furries "deserve" mockery because they're so "out" about their "fetish" makes me wonder what planet some folks are on. :?

  • No furries seriously use the term "fursecution." In fact, the only time it ever comes up is from folks making flimsy strawman arguments claiming furries use it. Folks think it's true because it's repeated a lot, I guess. I suppose the fact they're willfully ignorant says more about them than it does about furries.

  • Baiting furries stopped being funny ten years ago. More to the point, poorly-socialized individuals who spend all their internet time being jerks to everyone and trolling really need to get a better hobby. That's not intended as a put-down, but they really are quite... pathetic... when you think about it. They're not as funny as they think they are. These days they aren't even as offensive as they think they are. They're just tiresome.

  • Living well is the best revenge. My entire reaction to trolls consists of an exhausted sigh and an eyeroll before deciding to go ride my weirdo bike around or something. I still haven't come up with a witty comeback to trolls who declare victory by proclaiming "HA HA, you went OUTSIDE!"

8)

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Red Hal » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:09 pm UTC

Mane wrote:Why? Hate-speech is Hate-speech, You wouldn't want Neo-nazis going about yelling about Jews or the KKK going around discriminating against people of African descent.



Would now be an inappropriate time to call Godwin's?
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Mane » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:20 pm UTC

Red Hal wrote:
Mane wrote:Why? Hate-speech is Hate-speech, You wouldn't want Neo-nazis going about yelling about Jews or the KKK going around discriminating against people of African descent.



Would now be an inappropriate time to call Godwin's?

No.

I realize my example would probably end up bring that up.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Elvish Pillager » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:16 am UTC

It's about time anyway; this thread is getting a little long. :P

(HOW did this topic get so much discussion? As many others have said, it's not even interesting. :o )
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby mythago » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:34 am UTC

vodka.cobra wrote:Wow, way to pick that out of context.


Sorry, how is that 'out of context'? You think calling people sissies and suggesting they have estrogen are witty insults.
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Night10194 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:44 am UTC

One prime reason this has gone on is probably that furries enjoy talking about the whole furry thing. Sometimes, I think some actually enjoy the attention. Righteous indignation is fun, damnit. I mean, look at all the stories and games about being the righteous, epic underdog furiously dispensing justice on those who do acts of cruelty to others. People love that stuff.

Perhaps that's being a bit unfair, but I'm a furry myself, and I know I've felt that way at a few points early on in high school. I also remember the 'You should all be perfectly okay with what I enjoy, no matter what!' phase, which did very little but cause me a lot of consternation. This may sound defeatist, but damnit people, not everyone is going to like furry, sexual or not. You put it out there, and you invite the public to form opinions on it. I'd probably think there was something odd about a man or woman wearing what looked like some kind of high-school mascot outfit walking down the street just as I'd think a fellow with six belts covering his waist and entire torso area was odd. It's just a strange thing to do, and some people are not going to like it. To some extent, you have to respect their decision to disagree if you wish to demand your right to dress like whatever it is you wish. Accepting consequence goes a long way towards soothing its sting, at least in my experience.

It's not fair that other folk get to mock and abuse you, sometimes. But it's going to happen, and the vodka-fellow's advice is good. One of the prime reasons furries are targetted is because we're fun to mock the hell out of. Yelling angrily on the internet is not going to dissuade a troll, it'll just make them laugh harder, because you cannot *do* anything to someone over the interwebs save perhaps troll back, and that won't help either. You're not asserting yourself or your right to a higher social standing, not in the eyes of the people bothering you. You're just flailing wildly in a medium wherein you really can't do anything unless you can offend the other person back, and flailing is fun to watch for some folks.

The gist of what I'm getting at is, not everyone is going to accept a furry. People shouldn't be forced to. All you can do is, if you're not in someplace like /b/, wherein reason and logic do not show their faces for fear of being curbstomped, explain what it is and try to clarify if you do the odder aspects or not if asked. If they don't like it, well, you can't do much else at moment. Like the fursuiter who's seen as weird (as noted, *I* would find it weird, and I call myself a furry), you take a risk in discussing or making public your fandom. Accept the consequences, do what you can to explain, avoid /b/ like the plague, avoid the siren call of sweet, sweet internet rage and thicken your skin a bit. It worked for me, and made me a much happier person.

Also, for the love of god, don't call it fursecution. Just...don't.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Libby » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:50 am UTC

I think alot of the impression that furrys are sex obsessed perverts that go around banging each other in hotels in suits stems from the dreaded disease of "CSI-over-believing-itus". Alot of people watch the episode "fur and loathing" and take it as the definition of the fandom, which is totally wrong.

First of all its not a damn fettish. Its a community which happened to have a specific fettish. Its the same thing as star trek porn (yet not as bad). Fursuits are just like kingon costumes, not everyone is into them, Not everyone is into furry port and a very small amount are into suiting. I mean, I consider myself a furry. Do i look at furry porn? Not really no. Do i dress in a suit? deffinatly not. Do I find the style of are original and challenging to draw? yes I do.

You get your strange people in every community. they do not define the community any more then the crazy guy who stands outside of wallmart ranting at people would define society as a whole

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Irongrip » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:10 am UTC

I think what mainly squiks some of the people who've never even heard of /b/ and 4chan is the idea to put together Anthropomorphic animals(the kind they are used to associate with kids' stories) and sexuality (mainly in the form of rule34).

Once you get the people who find the connection of furry animals with pedophiles disturbing, and the people who'll exploit the first group's fear you get a recipe for what's happened with the whole furry fandom and it's stigma.


I personally find the furry weird but not repulsive, considering some of the other things I've seen over the years.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby william » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:12 am UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:It's about time anyway; this thread is getting a little long. :P

(HOW did this topic get so much discussion? As many others have said, it's not even interesting. :o )

It gets a lot of discussion because it's a controversial issue. (By the way, are you Elvish Pillager who's really good at SC2 Super-Melee?)
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby william » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:14 am UTC

Night10194 wrote:Righteous indignation is fun, damnit.

http://www.davidbrin.com/addiction.html
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Kitsusyn » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:38 am UTC

I don't really care what people think anymore. I have a fursona, I paw off to yiff, I don't fursuit, I don't go to cons (I would more but none are close to me) and I DON'T tell people I'm a furry unless they bring it up first (learned that the hard way IRL, family hates me now). I know I'm not a kitsune, it's just something I want to be, it's my alter-ego, who I picture myself as. But it's not who I see in the mirror, and not who I advertise myself as.


As far as furry hating goes, you almost NEVER see furry hating at cons, at least not the one I went to. Anonymity apparently gives some people the right to be assholes, but it's not their fault. It's our fault for taking it seriously. The internet is NOT life, people, we as a collective need a thicker skin.

I thank Randall for prompting this tasteful discussion. For a while, I had a feeling that the fandom was slipping away from me, but this thread has rejuvenated my faith in these matters.
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Armaina » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:44 am UTC

FourLetterWord wrote:
vodka.cobra wrote:I never said it was "okay." I never said it wasn't wrong. However, robbing someone is different than trolling someone on 4chan. If someone is actually hurt by the things I and others say on 4chan, fuck 'em.

the last page of this thread shows you pretty clearly why your shit don't smell much better than their shit. you see that comic robotnixon posted? a lot of you guys actually believe that, and guys like you who are still comfortable riding the furry-hate bus with those miscreants aren't really helping things.

Dude, It's 4chan it's the cesspool of the internet! Why would you care what one person says on 4 chan when a thread on /b/ maybe has a life span of 5-15 minutes. Also I'd like to point out I know a lot of people in the furry fandom that go there and make fun of the same things. You see, most of us can't tolerate the stereotypical furs, and THOSE are the ones that get made fun of.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby vodka.cobra » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:53 am UTC

Armaina wrote:
FourLetterWord wrote:
vodka.cobra wrote:I never said it was "okay." I never said it wasn't wrong. However, robbing someone is different than trolling someone on 4chan. If someone is actually hurt by the things I and others say on 4chan, fuck 'em.

the last page of this thread shows you pretty clearly why your shit don't smell much better than their shit. you see that comic robotnixon posted? a lot of you guys actually believe that, and guys like you who are still comfortable riding the furry-hate bus with those miscreants aren't really helping things.

Dude, It's 4chan it's the cesspool of the internet! Why would you care what one person says on 4 chan when a thread on /b/ maybe has a life span of 5-15 minutes.

QFT.
Armaina wrote:whatever else Armaina said

The problem with some people (and not just furries, either) is they take themselves WAY too damn seriously. http://xkcd.com/386/
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Khaz » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:09 am UTC

Alas, a new comic is posted, so we can all go talk about that now!

And I can laugh knowing that, as per the status quo, furries sparked the longest discussion thread in several months.

Ha ha ha haaaa...!

*flees, in a wolflike way*

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Armaina » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:10 am UTC

vodka.cobra wrote:The problem with some people (and not just furries, either) is they take themselves WAY too damn seriously. http://xkcd.com/386/

Ugh it's so true.

Personally I just think fourletterword has a problem with anyone that doesn't say something ABSOLUTELY GLOWING about furries.

Khaz wrote:Alas, a new comic is posted, so we can all go talk about that now!

And I can laugh knowing that, as per the status quo, furries sparked the longest discussion thread in several months.

Ha ha ha haaaa...!

*flees, in a wolflike way*

It's because the furries need to DEFEND themselves and support their FURSECUTED BRETHREN!

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby FourLetterWord » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:33 am UTC

Armaina wrote:Dude, It's 4chan it's the cesspool of the internet! Why would you care what one person says on 4 chan when a thread on /b/ maybe has a life span of 5-15 minutes. Also I'd like to point out I know a lot of people in the furry fandom that go there and make fun of the same things. You see, most of us can't tolerate the stereotypical furs, and THOSE are the ones that get made fun of.


there's actually a very good answer to that one: as 4chan will be quick to tell you, 4chan is important. /b/ is by far and away the primary source of the "furries as punching bag" phenomenon. if you've ever encountered it, it basically came from portalofevil, somethingawful, or 4chan, and all three of those sites share much of their userbase. since the first two aren't all that influential anymore, 4chan is the last great bastion of this attitude.

because that's what it's always been about--the attitude. believe it or not, furries can take a joke. all furry forums i've ever visited were packed to the gills with self-depricating humor. it's not the jokes that tend to bother furries, it's the designation as an 'other' on par with scientology et al. you tell the furries at any place on the internet that they dont have to be worried about things escelating past simple trolling and the 'persecution complex' would disappear overnight. places where shit's more serious than that are crummy. it seems like a pretty fair metric.

edit: as for your other post about me, i try not to. i've made it pretty clear that i agree with vodka's principle: so long as it's just trolling, it's legitimate. what more would you want? honest question--where do you think i've gone wrong?
Last edited by FourLetterWord on Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:47 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby vodka.cobra » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:47 am UTC

FourLetterWord wrote:come now, that's not fair. i've made it pretty clear that i agree with vodka's principle: so long as it's just trolling, it's legitimate. what more would you want? honest question--where do you think i've gone wrong?.

I don't recall you ever saying that. Maybe I missed a page.
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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Armaina » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:49 am UTC

FourLetterWord wrote:come now, that's not fair. i've made it pretty clear that i agree with vodka's principle: so long as it's just trolling, it's legitimate. what more would you want? literally--where do you think i've gone wrong?
You've continually pigeon-holed vodka.cobra as 'those guys' and criticized him at every turn, and what I don't get is you just referenced 'self-depreciating humor' which you know is pretty much THE SAME EXACT THING DONE ON 4 CHAN. Is it suddenly not okay for that same exact humor (possibly a little worse due to the images in most cases) to be on a site that isn't all about furries?

Also if someone is -actually- that hateful of furs, whatever, but the truth is they're making fun of the same exact furs that other furs make fun of.

Things DON'T escalate past simple trolling, I have NEVER seen it escalate past just trolling. See escalating past trolling would include invading someone's personal life and I've only seen this happen once in the case of those that had disliked each other and never met each other, and it was another fur that did it. Someone's trolling comments on the internet do not affect your personal life.

Also, trolling isn't supposed to be legitimate. it's trolling.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby FourLetterWord » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:49 am UTC

vodka.cobra wrote:
FourLetterWord wrote:come now, that's not fair. i've made it pretty clear that i agree with vodka's principle: so long as it's just trolling, it's legitimate. what more would you want? honest question--where do you think i've gone wrong?.

I don't recall you ever saying that. Maybe I missed a page.


i alluded to it a few times, but i can state it simply, too: i'm 100% with you on this point. as long as it's only trolling, it's fine and a normal part of the internet. i'm not gonna whine about whether or not something's technically trolling, either. it only has to be sorta close to trolling if you squint and it's foggy and you're drunk etc

Armaina wrote:Things DON'T escalate past simple trolling, I have NEVER seen it escalate past just trolling.


maybe we have a different definition of trolling. i call trolling what vodka.cobra calls trolling--posting something just to get a rise out somebody, because it's funny. the 'rrgh so angry die furries die man i saw a furry at the mall and it almost touched me' is not really what i'd call simple trolling. ditto for the weird, roundabout reasoning for why it's okay to hate all furries.

i don't really like that stuff and, generally speaking, i'm not willing to let it slide. i kept challanging vodka.cobra because i didn't want to get into an ugly argument with someone who genuinely hated furries--you can't really do that easily since they tend not to listen. i focused on vodka because, while had the right idea, he still seemed to be of the mind that furries were to blame etc--not the folks who take it farther than trolling.
Last edited by FourLetterWord on Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:06 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Armaina » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:58 am UTC

FourLetterWord wrote:maybe we have a different definition of trolling. i call trolling what vodka.cobra calls trolling--posting something just to get a rise out somebody, because it's funny. the 'rrgh so angry die furries die man i saw a furry at the mall and it almost touched me' is not really what i'd call simple trolling.
Most the time, the people that say this aren't serious, and/or referring to the same type of furry I personally never wish to associate with. At the same time, it's still a comment, an opinion, nothing more.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby FourLetterWord » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:01 am UTC

Armaina wrote:Most the time, the people that say this aren't serious, and/or referring to the same type of furry I personally never wish to associate with.


that isn't very true. worse than that's been posted in this thread. remember when i replied to Random832 about whether or not furries should have a community, for instance? or that stormfront-y comic?

Armaina wrote:At the same time, it's still a comment, an opinion, nothing more.


now that we can agree on. remember, all the stuff i've been doing is just a comment, an opinion, and nothing more, too :P
Last edited by FourLetterWord on Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:15 am UTC, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby Armaina » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:04 am UTC

FourLetterWord wrote:now that we can agree on. remember, all the stuff i've been doing is just a comment, an opinion, and nothing more, too :P
Yes I know, the internet is full of opinions, and discussing reasons for such opinions can be fun.

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Re: "Aversion Fads" Discussion

Postby ScottRA2 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:20 am UTC

Wow. hot button issue here.

I actually agree with both the xkcd comic AND robotnixons at the same time. (not all of it, mind you. The furry = stupid & furry = furporn stuff falls before the power of logic). I do not hate furries in general. however, the ones who act like the furry in robotnixpn's comic i feel justified in hating, for the reasons mentioned therein. the arrogant whiney ones i can;t stand, but i hate that in pretty much any group, not just furries. i think the point has been made through the numerous reitterations, but i'll say it again: the largest reasons why i or anyone else would pick on furries are A) for the strong angry reactions, which we tend to get easily, and 2) because so often furries make it overdramatic, and maing fun of drama is entertaining for hose of us with the asshole gene. And furries aren;t the only targets. I'm game for emo's, bad goths, larpers, teenagers, ect. It's all about the responses and the drama. I have no problem with furry culture in general, even the porn. It does nothing for me, but i'm no more against it than any other rule 34 (dear god, my childhood!).

The only problem i do have with the furry culture is actually a problem with most of the anime culture, the roleplaying culture, larping culture, and pretty much another similarly geeky culture. People take it too far and too seriously. I personally have an interest in both anime and rpgs. But one thing hold me back. Certain members of these cultures take them WAY too far, and in doing so they tarnish the image of the culture as a whole. what happens is it becomes impossible to enjoy an element of the culture without being associated directly by others to the extremist portions of the culture. For example, no matter how much of a Naruto fan you may be, don't wear one of the headbands in public. It does not make you "cool." People do not "love" you for it. What you're doing is actually making the people who just enjoy the show embarrased for liking it. Extremists within a cultre creates a stigma that everyone else has to deal with. For me, this irritation applies against furries more indirectly, since many extremist furries are also extremist anime fans.

In a way, I actually think some of the furries on here may relate to this veiw. All furries are judged by the impressions people have of the fursuiters and furry porn subcultures. It would seem to be impossible to enjoy antropomorphic art or any of the other elements of the culture without being judged in the same way as the far end of the spectrum. The same principle is at work. The response is set by the extremes of the set, not the norm.

Anyways, /endRant


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