0566: "Matrix Revisited"

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Shay Guy
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0566: "Matrix Revisited"

Postby Shay Guy » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:10 am UTC

Image

Link: http://xkcd.com/566/

Alt-text: I actually remember being entertained by both the sequels while in the theater. They just don't hold up nearly as well in later comparison.

Would you believe the alt-text happened to me with Batman and Robin?

(And wow, I only occasionally even come here...how did nobody start a thread before me? Especially since I waited a minute or two to see if anyone else would.)
Last edited by Shay Guy on Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:14 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby aeris92 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:12 am UTC

SHIT i decided to make a discussion but i failed miserably

*sepukku*

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Chuff » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:12 am UTC

Not going to say get out of my head, but I'm seeing this tomorrow and I didn't even know it was the 10 year anniversary.
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Shale » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:13 am UTC

Reloaded was a disappointment in the theater too. Not terrible, but disappointing. It held up so poorly on rewatches that I didn't bother seeing Revolutions until I could rent it from the library for free.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Steve the Pocket » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:15 am UTC

The first line especially made me laugh, partly because it's almost word-for-word one of the jokes from a parody film some friends of mine made.

Come to think of it, I still don't know if that film was ever put online anywhere. I wish it were so I could show it around; it's pretty damn awesome.
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Benson » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:15 am UTC

Yeah, I thought the sequels were OK, too. (Although obviously not as good as the original.)

I watched the DVDs back-to-back, though, instead of seeing them in a theater as they came out -- I think the wait would have been rather annoying.


Oh, and purple-powder-snorting Neo is just awesome, BTW.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby TheHand » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:16 am UTC

Man, that movie really changed a lot about computer effects.

The second two.... well... they taught us the same lesson about sequels.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Figs » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:20 am UTC

Actually, I still haven't seen The Matrix...

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Peevish » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:21 am UTC

My favorite exchange after watching Revolutions:

Friend 1: I think I liked it until I thought about it.
Friend 2: I think I liked it until I saw it.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby 1337geek » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:21 am UTC

I've never seen it, and I'm not ashamed to say so. A big part of the reason why is that people always get a look of shock and say "but you HAVE to see it!" Um, no I don't. I've made it this far, haven't I? Same thing with Firefly. I'll probably get around to it someday, but not until you quit nagging me about it.
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby glasnt » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:23 am UTC

They made sequels other than Animatrix?

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:23 am UTC

I loved Reloaded, hated Revolutions. I stand by that.
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby joeyhndc » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:25 am UTC

I rented the original from a little podunk video store near my house when I was 11. I didn't know anything about it, but the shopkeeper seemed to like it. Needless to say, 3 hours later I was sitting in front of the TV with a blown mind.

On a side note, anyone get that 'matrixy' feeling after playing too many video games? Kind of like you're just controlling yourself, and not actually experiencing?

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Meng Bomin » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:26 am UTC

My favorite line from the sequels is where the Architect says to Neo, "I can tell by the expression on your face..."

Looking at Keanu Reeves with sunglasses on, my thought was, "What...what?"

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby athelas » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:31 am UTC

I actually thought Reloaded posed some pretty keen questions: What if the "reality" that the humans escaped to was another simulation, and what was the nature of Neo's real-world powers? But then Revolutions dropped all the interesting bits and just went for the big dumb loud showdown.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby tuckels » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:32 am UTC

I saw the whole trilogy backwards. Some friends called me up and said "do you want go see revolutions?" when it came out and i couldn't really say no. Then, a few weeks later my pay TV subscription offered free access to the movie channels for a week or so, and reloaded was on. Finally, i rented the original a few weeks later.
The whole ordeal made them make even less sense.

Edit: I'm amazed by how much the Morphius stick figure looks like Morphius.
Last edited by tuckels on Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:34 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Iluvatar » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:34 am UTC

I may take no end of flak for it, but I loved the sequels. Admittedly, though, I loved them in the sense that I loved a lot of action movies. Were I to judge them as sequels to the first movie, then yeah, they suck. Judging them independent of that, though, and purely as visual action-kung-fu badassery, I think they rocked.

It'd be as if Harold and Kumar was a sequel to Memento or Requiem for a Dream. Great movies, but apples/oranges.

Edit: I like the first movie, if only because one can now explain Cartesian Scepticism to a teenager with little trouble by replacing Descartes' demon with the Wachowskis' Neo. :)
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby dawidi » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:44 am UTC

Heh. A little over a year ago I wrote up my thoughts about the Matrix (haven't seen the sequels, assuming they are even worse) in a form I would have put on a blog if I had one... because I don't, here's as far as I got:

A pet peeve of mine is arguing that the "Matrix" movies should have been a lot different.

The concept of machines enslaving computers, as well as that of living in an immersive virtual environment simulated by a computer, offer a lot more exotic possibilities than the Matrix films dared to explore. Gunfights and the like are far too "real-worldly" to be included in a film that, by its storyline, tries to attract geeks.

Of course, those people who unaware that they live in a simulation, will use real-world tools and procedures. But someone intruding the Matrix would do things a lot differently, by exploiting little errors and loopholes in the environment.

As for fights, inside a computer you don't shoot guns or do kung-fu. There are far cooler weapons in computer science. I'd love to see the realization of an auditory buffer overflow exploit embedded in a dialogue, or opponents DDOSing each other with their botnet-armies. The desperate attempt to take these concepts and convey them in a movie-compatible way will make for a very peculiar work.

But there's more.

The capital is Equation City, with avenues and roads called rows and columns and named after famous mathematicians (Vandermonde Row, Hilbert Column). There are large plazas with monuments, like Irrational Scalar Plaza (with particularly confusing traffic) and Tangens Square (only reachable on foot). The city's landmark is the huge Determinant Tower from where you'd have a spectacular panoramic view of the entire county.
One of the houses, directly in one corner of the square-ish city, has the number 0 and a giant arrow points down onto this house from the sky.

If your car is stolen, you can recreate it entirely from the car keys by using AutoComplete - just make a gesture of turning the keys and the car will appear around you.
There's also public transportation, most prominently the Universal Serial Bus zipping around town, and the Token Ring Railway covering the (fractally self-similar) suburbs with a single train.

There are places in town that have been neglected data-wise. For example cellar rooms in which the walls are simply wireframe grids without a texture, or parts of the sewer system where the tubes are only three-sided and the water flowing in them does not have waves or ripples.

In complex areas and scenes, such as a major road accident on Spaghetticode Square, or in a room with lots of mirrors, everything starts to "skip frames" and motions become jerky.
If someone stomps the ground very hard or is thrown violently against a wall, they will occasionally "tunnel" to the other side and end up with one foot seemingly stuck inside the solid matter. Similarly car crashes and other physical interactions will sometimes have unpredictable outcomes in conflict with the laws of physics (violation of the conservation of momentum and such).
Looking closely at objects it would be noticed that they are made up of polygons and their surfaces are either blurred or pixelated.


I also found that the concept of using people to "generate energy" is silly - they could be reasonably enslaved by machines to "feed" on their thoughts and creativity though! And that has even been implemented by spammers :lol:
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby kim0hara » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:47 am UTC

Okay, here's a challenge: think of a movie series in which the second one was better than the first.
If that's too hard, and I think it might be, how about a series where the second was as good as the first?
8)

Kim

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby dawidi » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:51 am UTC

kim0hara wrote:Okay, here's a challenge: think of a movie series in which the second one was better than the first.

Easy. I laughed a lot harder watching Shrek 2. :mrgreen:
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby grscjo3 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:52 am UTC

@ Alt-text: Who'd-a thunk it that God would be a blasphemer?

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby benjamincanfly » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:53 am UTC

Last year my friends and I made a web video with a plot similar to the last panel of today's comic, called "George Lucas Died In 1989" : http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/3ae7e2 ... amincanfly

Just in case someone thinks I'm posting to complain: I'm not claiming "prior," that would be silly. I believe that our universe consists of the exploded fragments of an original single consciousness. We all get the same ideas - just thought fellow xkcd readers might enjoy this.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby mollybdenum » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:55 am UTC

Toy Story 2 was better than the first.....

I'd call an animated movie trend but I've seen too many Disney sequels.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Shale » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:57 am UTC

The Empire Strikes Back. That was easy.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby broken_chaos » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:59 am UTC

kim0hara wrote:Okay, here's a challenge: think of a movie series in which the second one was better than the first.

Star Wars. Okay, better than may be slightly subjective, but "as good as" is usually agreed upon.

Edit: Damnit, beaten out in the time it took me to login.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Iridos » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:01 am UTC

Peevish wrote:My favorite exchange after watching Revolutions:

Friend 1: I think I liked it until I thought about it.
Friend 2: I think I liked it until I saw it.


Haha... that's pretty much exactly how I felt... about Matrix I already, though.
Of course, then there was still hope that some twist of the story would provide a less stupid explanation for everything... so things went from bad to worse with the sequels.

I mean "This is what you are for them" (holds up a battery) - I mean seriously.... humans to provide energy for machines? They probably have cups saying "you don't have to have had a lobotomy to write manuscripts for our films, but it helps" on their workplace.

Even the most basic understanding of physic tells you, that human beings are not a good source to produce energy... (specially electricity)


Also, see here http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/matrix.html
According to this page, somewhere in the movie they mention that the machines also use fusion power (I can't remember that myself, though):
intutor movie-physics webpage wrote:To cover itself, the movie throws in a quick mention that the human energy source powering the machines is combined with a source of fusion. This is like getting on a 747 and having the captain explain in great detail that the plane is rubber band powered, then add that it also has four jet engines. Guess which power source gets it off the ground, duh.


It was one of those very disappointing movies made by people with the attitude "what the hell, it's science fiction, it doesn't have to make sense". That is all the more the pity, as I think the film had great potential.

The dialog therefore should read like this:
N: What is the matrix?
A: A crappy film from 1999




The concept was not new either, btw. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welt_am_Draht

Which I personally think is the better film, despite it's lack of fancy graphics - and definitely the more visionary one - just consider the date (1973) - I think it was even still in black&white...just found parts of it on youtube

I.
Last edited by Iridos on Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:25 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby sugarhyped » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:02 am UTC

I only ever saw the first one.
I know not to watch the others now. I actually didn't understand what the matrix was until a guy in my high school drama class performed the scene where neo was kidnapped for a 2nd time.
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Shale » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:06 am UTC

Ten years later, I still don't get why people nitpick over the movie's premise. If you're paying more attention to the laws of thermodynamics then to Carrie-Anne Moss kicking people in the face, you are, to quote the vernacular, doing it wrong.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Detson » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:18 am UTC

Thats a recipe for bad Sci-Fi. People don't have a problem suspending disbelief...once. I don't expect realism, but I do expect logic.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby seanfalloy » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:27 am UTC

I like the first frame "Holy Fuck 10 years ago." Thats exactly the words that ran through my head as I read it.
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Shale » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:31 am UTC

Detson wrote:Thats a recipe for bad Sci-Fi. People don't have a problem suspending disbelief...once. I don't expect realism, but I do expect logic.


Sci-fi, schmy-fi. It's an action movie with a science fiction handwave for the wire fu. As long as the fight scenes don't break my suspension of disbelief, I'm good.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Sp00n » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:34 am UTC

kim0hara wrote:Okay, here's a challenge: think of a movie series in which the second one was better than the first.
If that's too hard, and I think it might be, how about a series where the second was as good as the first?
8)

Kim

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Benson » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:43 am UTC

Bluntly, I didn't excuse the whole humans = batteries bit because "it's sci-fi" (I'd never heard that reason for excusing it, and it makes negative sense), but because I can forgive a flubbed backstory explanation as long as the present is reasonably consistent, and they don't continually dwell on it.

Also, for me, it is not sci-fi, but action, with sci-fi leveraged just to give plausible freedom for way more awesome action than "realistic" action movies. And since it was full of action scenes where nobody cared who was or wasn't a battery, it definitely met the not-continually-dwelling point.

Shale wrote:Ten years later, I still don't get why people nitpick over the movie's premise. If you're paying more attention to the laws of thermodynamics then to Carrie-Anne Moss kicking people in the face, you are, to quote the vernacular, doing it wrong.

Yeah, more or less that.

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby hazy » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:47 am UTC

Meng Bomin wrote:My favorite line from the sequels is where the Architect says to Neo, "I can tell by the expression on your face..."

Looking at Keanu Reeves with sunglasses on, my thought was, "What...what?"



hahaahahahahahahaha he's so serious.. how can you tell anything from his face?

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby BlueNight » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:53 am UTC

I expected Revolutions to be far different from what it actually was.

I thought that Agent Smith absorbing a bit of free will from Neo had freed him from the simulacrum of war enforced by the machines. As a free agent (pun intended), he would have sought to eliminate Neo not for some petty grudge or some power trip (what was his goal, anyway?), but because Neo was going to start the whole cycle all over again, and Agent Smith would have been trapped with the stink of humans for another cycle.

This would have set the scene for the third film, in which Neo and Smith team up, first IRL, then in the Matrix, to end the war program cycle. Besides a physical invasion of Zion, there would have been computer attacks, and we would have seen the "flight controllers" in the Zion mainframe doing kung fu with lightsabers against invading agents.

In a postmodern twist, Neo would have died before the climax of the film, bequeathing his status as the sum of the uncarried etc etc to Agent Smith.

In the end, The Architect, who had been tasked by the AI Nation with helping them survive the darkening of the skies, would have worked with Zion and The Oracle to find a way around the problems facing both human and AI.

Of course the whole war would be unnecessary if they could find some helium for a SOLAR POWER COLLECTING BLIMP OR TWO.
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby faunablues » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:54 am UTC

Terminator 2.

(imho)

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby oyecaraj0 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:58 am UTC

kim0hara wrote:Okay, here's a challenge: think of a movie series in which the second one was better than the first.
If that's too hard, and I think it might be, how about a series where the second was as good as the first?
8)

Kim



Really?

Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior? The Dark Knight?! Terminator 2: Judgement Day?!! Aliens?!!!

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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby Josephine » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:02 am UTC

joeyhndc wrote:On a side note, anyone get that 'matrixy' feeling after playing too many video games? Kind of like you're just controlling yourself, and not actually experiencing?


*raises hand* But I get it regularly. Not just after gaming for a while. It usually happens when I'm doing mundane things I can do without really thinking, but thinking about other things in the meantime.
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby aleflamedyud » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:06 am UTC

When Neo says "I don't believe it; it's not possible" he is, of course, correct. Thermodynamics does not work that way!

EDIT: I realize that the original script had them using humans for computational power. Still, the sheer ecological stupidity of scorching the sky boggles me. Where did we think we would get our food?
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Re: "Matrix Revisited" Discussion

Postby zombie_monkey » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:16 am UTC

dawidi wrote:I also found that the concept of using people to "generate energy" is silly - they could be reasonably enslaved by machines to "feed" on their thoughts and creativity though! And that has even been implemented by spammers :¡This cheese is burning me!:

Actually I believe that was the original idea, that the machines used people's brains to run a massive neural network. Which would have made a lot more sense in the context of some lines of dialogue, scenes and such -- they didn't bother changing a lot of stuff that only makes sense in that context. It would have made the film a lot more understandable. As it is, I didn't like it that much.
Iridos wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welt_am_Draht Which I personally think is the better film, despite it's lack of fancy graphics - and definitely the more visionary one

I'd also mention Dark City as an earlier and superior but similar film, but it's not exactly sci-fi. But hey, I don't think The Matrix is exactly sci-fi either. Actually Dark City was made just before The Matrix and the Matrix guys even used some of the Dark City sets.
EDIT: Actually some might say Dark City is more sci-fi than the Matrix.
Last edited by zombie_monkey on Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:49 am UTC, edited 8 times in total.


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