0626: "Newton and Leibniz"

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Shale
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Shale » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:56 pm UTC

Haven't you people read the disclaimer?

Warning: this comic occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors).


You can't say you weren't warned.

ToastOfDestiny
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby ToastOfDestiny » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:08 pm UTC

The pun was horrible, but I still loved the comic =). Bad puns can make good jokes.

RogueA wrote:
Introbulus wrote:...Oh god...

It was...it was a pun? I....

...I totally should've caught that! Me and my dad make bad puns all day long! Oh...ow...

Well...I still don't get the sunglasses. I mean sure, it's wacky, but why sunglasses? Are they referencing something else as well?


This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sarYH0z948


Thanks! I've been trying to figure out YEAHHHH for months now.

aprogressivist
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby aprogressivist » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:12 pm UTC

RANDALL, I LOVE YOU!

*throws cyber-underwear at him*

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Omegaton
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Omegaton » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:41 pm UTC

osj1961 wrote:Just about every
time I read an XKCD there is a brief (or sometimes not so brief) expedition around the net tracking down references. Now that I'm also reading these fora it's gotten even worse.

I don't actually take the time to look up everything, but I do occasionally learn things from xkcd as well. It's pretty good for that.

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Pietro
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Pietro » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:48 pm UTC

vodka.cobra wrote:I can already see what the commenters at XKCD sucks are going to say about this. "What? Me no get the joke"

Pietro wrote:FIRST-YEAR CALCULUS IS EASY. GET OVER YOURSELF.

torritorri wrote:So it's not a reference to graduate school math. Who cares?


Um, if you had read for context, you would have seen that my point was directed at vodka.cobra, who, illustrating a general trend in the xkcd forums, was fancying himself pretty damn smart for grasping a certain topic, in spite of the fact that the topic is of a quite trivial nature.

Nevertheless, it is pretty annoying that the author of a freaking comic about how he's so great at math does not make jokes above first-year calculus, and manages to get wrong Euclid's freaking proof on the number of primes.

Bloody everyone wrote:It's just a webcomic, it's hard to come up with new material, etc etc


Dudes, seriously, this argument makes no sense. Bowing to "it's just a sitcom", "it's just a movie", "it's just a stand-up act", we could never criticize anything ever again. We would have to watch "Full House" and say, oh, you know, humor is subjective, this sitcom isn't formulaic or severely limited in its scope or anything.

Obviously it's very hard to make good jokes, never mind three times a week. That's why people go on sabbaticals. Gary Larson did it, Bill Watterson did it, you're not gonna tell me that Randall is above needing it. I bet we would have a treat when he came back.

It would also allow Randall to live life a little bit, I don't know, travel places, get new hobbies. This is pretty damn important when his comic devotes such a large portion of its time to activities/themes in his life and that of his friends, and these days it feels like all Randall does is spend time on the web. Nothing wrong with the web, but the humor gets old.

One or two idiots wrote:You can't say xkcd fans are smug without being smug yourself!


Um, guys, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you've met smug people before, and that at the very least you were able to talk to your friends about the smug person, without yourselves being smug. Who knows, if you cared about Mr. Smug a little bit, and were not too shy, maybe you even told him, because you know, people aren't 100% aware of their faults all the time. So the response above is pretty lame.

So yeah, I agree with Someursault, reading the comic discussion threads just feels like watching a giant competition of who knows more about given topics. This is annoying for me both when I know nothing about the topic at hand, and when I know a fair bit. Some of you guys seriously need to lay off the ego.

I hope I haven't sounded smug, because I'm trying to tell you guys something about your communication skills, with the aim of communicating with you. As I see it, the point of the smug person is that they think some people aren't worth communicating with.
I always wondered about the meaning of life. So I looked it up in the dictionary under "L" and there it was --- the meaning of life. It was not what I expected. (Dogbert)

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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby AkodoGilador » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:52 pm UTC

Calculus is a complex field, Taylor made for puns.

Alex

honorious
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby honorious » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:58 pm UTC

AkodoGilador wrote:Calculus is a complex field, Taylor made for puns.

Alex


boo! i hope you fall pray to an infinite series of misfortunes my friend

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mdyrud
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby mdyrud » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:14 pm UTC

I've noticed there has been some confusion about the origins of calculus in this thread, with small answers here and there. This may answer some of those questions. (Sources are Encyclopedia Britannica, Gale Encyclopedia of something-or-other, and Wikipedia.)

While Fermat did develop a method for finding tangents to curves, it was very limited in its applications, only working with a few situations. It is believed that looking at his work gave Newton some inspiration to make a more universal method. No matter who you ask, Newton did develop the calculus (which means the rules) before Leibniz. However, Leibniz did publish first, because Newton was rather sensitive to rejection and delayed publishing. The basic methods used today are almost entirely those developed by Leibniz. Who wants to work with Fluxions?

For full disclosure, I am on the side of Leibniz, just because his method was much easier to use.

Jamaican Castle
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Jamaican Castle » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:07 am UTC

mdyrud wrote:For full disclosure, I am on the side of Leibniz, just because his method was much easier to use.


I'm all for Liebniz because Newton is all busy with the physics and all. I mean, seriously. Isn't one field worth of innovations enough for that man?

(Apparently not... according to DM Maus, he did a whole bunch of other things, such a running freaking mint. Who knew?)

Maximus_Light
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Maximus_Light » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:50 am UTC

Don't suppose anyone thought of "Wayne's World" or "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" when they saw this?

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aylalalalalala
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby aylalalalalala » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:55 am UTC

Maximus_Light wrote: by Maximus_Light » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:50 pm UTC
Don't suppose anyone thought of "Wayne's World" or "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" when they saw this?

win :D
If you were a guitar... I'd pluck you

Ghona
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Ghona » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:11 am UTC

Archimedes: So it's all coming full circle.
If you're taking me too seriously, you probably are making a mistake.

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arbivark
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion/Richard Prior art

Postby arbivark » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:23 am UTC

http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/HeuristicsInc/423067

It took me a couple of tries to get started, but I liked System of the World, with Newton as an action hero.

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StClair
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby StClair » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:28 am UTC

May I submit to all the complainers that the comic isn't really much better or worse or different than it used to be; you're just tired/familiar/burnt-out on it?

Take a break for a while. Come back with fresh eyes.

Upthorn
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Upthorn » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:01 am UTC

StClair wrote:May I submit to all the complainers that the comic isn't really much better or worse or different than it used to be; you're just tired/familiar/burnt-out on it?


Of course you can submit that, but before you do so, perhaps you would have the decency to go back and reread the first 10 strips, and compare them to the last 10 strips, to make absolutely certain that your statement is true.

Let it be known that I was linked to xkcdsucks for the first time last weekend, and found it absolutely attrocious, because they were focusing on petty things that had no relation the the quality of the strip, and they weren't even keeping a sense of humor about it. Unfortunately, this strip drives to heart the point they make that, in recent times, xkcd strips have been somewhat less imaginative. Sure, there's a few here and there, but I would greatly prefer a new "red spiders" sketch to today's production.

Also, you don't have to know how to take derivatives in calculus (or even know what they are), to know that "derivative" is a calculus term, and this strip was making a (terrible) pun off of that fact, and its common English meaning.

Lastly, I am on the side of Leibnitz, because if you don't publish your findings, they have no academic value to anyone. If you discover a method of faster than light travel, it has no value if you keep it to yourself and nobody ever gets to use it for anything.

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StClair
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby StClair » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:11 am UTC

When it was just a bunch of random doodles and sketches on graph paper, you mean? Practically devoid of character, plot, or anything beyond "hey, look at this thing I drew in class"?

HighSpeedFallingObjects
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby HighSpeedFallingObjects » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:34 am UTC

Zenexer wrote:
plin25 wrote:I predicted the alt-text after seeing the last panel


The alt text is quite predictable; it's the same as the title, always. You're confusing it with the title text. Alt = alternative, title = hover. ;)



This is something that has always confused me. When I was learning html, it was the [title] that changes what appears at the top of the web page (like now my [title] text is "xkcd - Post a reply - Mozilla Firefox") and the [alt] tag is what affected the hover text. However on xkcd, everyone seems to flip it the other way around. To make sure, I just now made a sample page in notepad using both of those tags and I am indeed correct. So unless this is just some big joke I'm not getting, it's the other way around.

Title = Browser taskbar text
Alt = Hover text

Further proof:
http://www.w3schools.com/htmL/html_images.asp
http://www.w3schools.com/TAGS/tag_title.asp

Cal27
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Cal27 » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:44 am UTC

skine wrote:
Solo wrote:
Shale wrote:
Zero51423 wrote:That's terrible. I feel like somebody just stabbed me in the kidneys because of how terrible that pun was.


That's pretty much what I came here to say, and copying someone else's comment certainly fits with the spirit of the comic.

One might even go so far as to say that it is integral to the plot.

Sorry, I think you're going off on a tangent.

Great, now every time I hear a pun I'm going to have to scream "YEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAH"...

Edit: Oh, and Zenexer, you're confusing the Title tag with the Title attribute. The alt attribute is what is displayed if an image can not be displayed and the title attribute displays as a mouseover after a few seconds.
See:
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_standard_title.asp
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_IMG.asp

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JamesCFraser
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby JamesCFraser » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:08 am UTC

I have been using this joke for ages.
Now if I use it with new people, they'll assume I stole it from XKCD.
My limited sense of humour is being further constricted :(

punto
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby punto » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:54 pm UTC

I kinda freaked out a bit when the alt-text showed up and it was exactly what was playing in my head.

Elusieum
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Elusieum » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:50 pm UTC

This comic made me very happy. I love crossing an internet phenomenon with a math pun. Excellent.

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Psycho Goose
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Psycho Goose » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:54 pm UTC

JamesCFraser wrote:I have been using this joke for ages.
Now if I use it with new people, they'll assume I stole it from XKCD.
My limited sense of humour is being further constricted :(
But don't worry. At least you have a cool avatar.

I mean, how do you describe that thing? "Fractal hand"?
Mother Superior wrote:Go to Checkov's guns on fifth. But be careful, any gun he shows you is liable to go off at some point while you're in the store.

gruepig
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby gruepig » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:18 pm UTC

s/derivative/fluxion/.

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PhantomPhanatic
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby PhantomPhanatic » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:28 pm UTC

honorious wrote:
AkodoGilador wrote:Calculus is a complex field, Taylor made for puns.

Alex


boo! i hope you fall pray to an infinite series of misfortunes my friend


Not to diverge, but I was cheese-burned by this exchange more than the original comic. I'm glad I'm Abel to be a part of such a wonderful group of people.
We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming.
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Psycho Goose
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Psycho Goose » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:52 pm UTC

PhantomPhanatic wrote:
honorious wrote:
AkodoGilador wrote:Calculus is a complex field, Taylor made for puns.

Alex


boo! i hope you fall pray to an infinite series of misfortunes my friend


Not to diverge, but I was cheese-burned by this exchange more than the original comic. I'm glad I'm Abel to be a part of such a wonderful group of people.
I Cain not allow that. You will die.
Mother Superior wrote:Go to Checkov's guns on fifth. But be careful, any gun he shows you is liable to go off at some point while you're in the store.

Upthorn
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Upthorn » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:23 pm UTC

StClair wrote:When it was just a bunch of random doodles and sketches on graph paper, you mean? Practically devoid of character, plot, or anything beyond "hey, look at this thing I drew in class"?

Yes, back when Randall was showing his artistic side.

andyroo
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby andyroo » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:20 am UTC

Lol at the CSI Miami reference.

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tehol
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby tehol » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:02 am UTC

Zenexer wrote:
plin25 wrote:I predicted the alt-text after seeing the last panel


The alt text is quite predictable; it's the same as the title, always. You're confusing it with the title text. Alt = alternative, title = hover. ;)


Response version 1:

Why are you correcting him? Yes, title text is what the html code is, but the alt-text sounds better. Also, it IS alternate text, that can be read, instead of or in line with the rest of the comic.

Response version 2:

Alt-text alt-text alt-text alt -text alt-text

'title text' sounds like eww. Alt-text is ftw.

Don't tell me what to do, emmmmmaaaaaa.
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Glenn Magus Harvey
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Glenn Magus Harvey » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:09 am UTC

Extreme groaner math pun!

Awesome.

malus malum
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby malus malum » Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:31 am UTC

Newton didn't invent Calculus, he may have invented Fluxions and Fluents, but he didn't publish it until after Liebniz. 20 years after.
You've got the cartoon backwards.

Liebniz published, and Newton said, "Hey, that's mine, you copied me, even though I had my doubts and never published it"
He hated Liebniz, and he apparently hated the term Calculus.

This comic pushes the limits. In order for the humour to work it's integral that the function of time be considered. Liebniz published before Newton.

Crediting Newton, and making Liebiz the butt of the joke shows the downward slope this comic tends towards. There are other areas of mathematical humour with a far greater volume of witicisms available to the author.

malus malum

AkodoGilador
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby AkodoGilador » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:01 pm UTC

My real analysis is that Randall is a smooth operator.

Alex

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Carlington
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Carlington » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:05 pm UTC

All these puns have pushed me to my limits. I can no longer differentiate the real posts from the joke ones.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Monika
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Monika » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:28 pm UTC

HighSpeedFallingObjects wrote:
Zenexer wrote:
plin25 wrote:I predicted the alt-text after seeing the last panel


The alt text is quite predictable; it's the same as the title, always. You're confusing it with the title text. Alt = alternative, title = hover. ;)



This is something that has always confused me. When I was learning html, it was the [title] that changes what appears at the top of the web page (like now my [title] text is "xkcd - Post a reply - Mozilla Firefox") and the [alt] tag is what affected the hover text. However on xkcd, everyone seems to flip it the other way around. To make sure, I just now made a sample page in notepad using both of those tags and I am indeed correct. So unless this is just some big joke I'm not getting, it's the other way around.

Title = Browser taskbar text
Alt = Hover text

Further proof:
http://www.w3schools.com/htmL/html_images.asp
http://www.w3schools.com/TAGS/tag_title.asp

Have a look at the w3 article you cite. It doesn't say that the alt attribute is displayed as a tooltip. It says the alt attribute is displayed when the image is not displayed (in text browsers, or when the image cannot be loaded, or the user disabled them). The title attribute http://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_standard_title.asp , which can be applied to almost all tags, is used for tooltips (though browser could decide to do something else). The confusion you and many others have was caused by Microsoft. Internet Explorer displays alt attributes as tooltips, too. This is wrong. Additionally it is bad, because it caused web developers to put values in the alt attribute to be seen as tooltips, not to be read by blind people in lieu of seeing the image. But this is the reason why many people say alt text when they mean the title text / tooltip. On xkcd, the comics have identical alt and title texts.
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DarthDaver
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby DarthDaver » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:42 pm UTC

Zero51423 wrote:That's terrible. I feel like somebody just stabbed me in the kidneys because of how terrible that pun was.
D


My sentiments as well.
Only, I felt the pain as a horrible horrible urge to laugh.

...

I gave in.
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Geeky webcomic drawn by my girlfriend, check it out!!!

gypkap
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby gypkap » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:05 pm UTC

AkodoGilador wrote:Calculus is a complex field, Taylor made for puns.

Alex


Fortunately, that means it has real and imaginary parts.

Faranya
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Faranya » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:02 am UTC

Zenexer wrote:The alt text is quite predictable; it's the same as the title, always. You're confusing it with the title text. Alt = alternative, title = hover. ;)



Your comment, while technically accurate, is irrelvant, as alt-text is a forum colloquialism for the hover text. It is not necessary that it be in direct agreement with a techincal term.

Saying that you are 'on the ball' does not need to be relegated to the situation in which you are literally atop the only ball in existence.
Image

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Baxter
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby Baxter » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:28 pm UTC

A more accurate version.

Image

Doesn't change the fact that Newton was a bitter old homosexual.
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chrth
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby chrth » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:01 pm UTC

JamesCFraser wrote:I have been using this joke for ages.
Now if I use it with new people, they'll assume I stole it from XKCD.
My limited sense of humour is being further constricted :(


Same here. I was very surprised to find that my David Caruso sunglasses on/off routine had become a meme.

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neoliminal
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby neoliminal » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:05 pm UTC

aprogressivist wrote:RANDALL, I LOVE YOU!

*throws cyber-underwear at him*


I had to know. I had to. So I googled it.

You sick man. You poor, pathetic sick man.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0073YYXRC
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Re: "Newton and Leibniz" Discussion

Postby thicknavyrain » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:06 pm UTC

Baxter wrote:A more accurate version.

Image

Doesn't change the fact that Newton was a bitter old homosexual.


Why the homohate?
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