0668: "Pandora"

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phlip
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby phlip » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:16 am UTC

I don't get what's so incomprehensible about the labels...

[imath]A[/imath] = Music you like
[imath]B[/imath] = Deeply embarassing music
[imath]A \cap \bar B[/imath] = What Pandora [typically] plays
[imath]A \cap B[/imath] = What Pandora plays if anyone is around

Granted, to be absolutely logically accurate, the label on [imath]A \cap \bar B[/imath] should include that word "typically", but its presence would disrupt the joke, and it can be implied easily enough in absence.

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Sonic132
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby Sonic132 » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:51 am UTC

What in the world does the
phlip wrote:[imath]\cap[/imath]

Symbol mean?
Image

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chridd
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby chridd » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:52 am UTC

Sonic132 wrote:What in the world does the
phlip wrote:[imath]\cap[/imath]

Symbol mean?

Intersection
A∩B = anything in both A and B.
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Ichapp
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby Ichapp » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:30 am UTC

Bonkava wrote:The Venn Diagram is not incorrect. It may be incorrect from a mathematical, graphing stand-point, but there are two different types of Venn Diagrams.

There's the kind you guys are all used to apparently that simply shows overlap between two demographics. Then there's this kind; the detailed, comparative style of Venn Diagram.

The left circle is labeled with its subject on the outside, as is the right. The overlap happens cleanly in the middle.

Within the left circle, characteristics that only apply to the left subject are written (i.e. Pandora only plays music you like and not deeply embarrassing music.) Within the right circle, characteristics that only apply to the right subject are written. (As any things solely related to deeply embarrassing music would be irrelevant, this circle is left blank.) In the middle, things that apply to both subjects are written (when people are around, Pandora plays deeply embarrassing music AND music you like, typically within the same song.)


This is exactly what I saw. Thanks for showing me I'm not the only crazy among all the crazies here.
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BioTube
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby BioTube » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:10 pm UTC

I never even knew you could label a Venn diagram on the inside.
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby Kartoffelkopf » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:55 am UTC

Back when I liked mainstream music, I used Pandora. Then they restricted it to US-only, and I was cold and alone until I found last.fm

Then they made last.fm pay radio after 25 free tracks for everyone outside of the UK, Germany and US (because they weren't getting enough money advertising in those countries).

So now I don't really have anywhere to find new music...








I have heard of Grooveshark and Spotify, but for now I'm too lazy and will just download random torrents labelled 'aggrotech' or 'powernoise' and put random songs from it onto my iPod. End up liking a lot of them.

Ugh, I can't use Spotify in this country either.

thenonsequitur
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby thenonsequitur » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:15 am UTC

Bonkava wrote:The Venn Diagram is not incorrect. It may be incorrect from a mathematical, graphing stand-point, but there are two different types of Venn Diagrams.

There's the kind you guys are all used to apparently that simply shows overlap between two demographics. Then there's this kind; the detailed, comparative style of Venn Diagram.

The left circle is labeled with its subject on the outside, as is the right. The overlap happens cleanly in the middle.

Within the left circle, characteristics that only apply to the left subject are written (i.e. Pandora only plays music you like and not deeply embarrassing music.) Within the right circle, characteristics that only apply to the right subject are written. (As any things solely related to deeply embarrassing music would be irrelevant, this circle is left blank.) In the middle, things that apply to both subjects are written (when people are around, Pandora plays deeply embarrassing music AND music you like, typically within the same song.)


I've never seen a Venn diagram structured in this way and can't find any references online for such an "alternate form" for Venn diagrams. Can you supply a reference for this? The only time I've seen labels outside the circles is if they don't fit inside the circles. In this case, the corresponding circles are empty, and don't list attributes. But I'll buy that that sort of Venn diagram makes sense, and probably does occur even though I have personally never seen it.

But even with that granted, your explanation doesn't coincide with the way I interpreted the diagram. To me, the label "music you like" does not apply to just the left-moon, but to the whole left circle. I thought the Joke was that Pandora generally plays music you like, but the deeply embarrassing music it plays--which you also generally like--only comes up when other people are around.

But even more importantly, I think it's a mistake simply because of the reaction it got. So many people are confused by the diagram--even if they see the joke in it (or more accurately, "a joke", since not everyone sees the same joke), the diagram itself is still confusing. And even the people that don't think it's in error are not all in agreement about what it means. That's simply a communication problem, even if there is some way to logically defend the diagram.

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phlip
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby phlip » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:07 am UTC

thenonsequitur wrote:But even with that granted, your explanation doesn't coincide with the way I interpreted the diagram. To me, the label "music you like" does not apply to just the left-moon, but to the whole left circle. I thought the Joke was that Pandora generally plays music you like, but the deeply embarrassing music it plays--which you also generally like--only comes up when other people are around.

That... is how Bonkava (and I, up the page) was explaining it... the two labels outside the circles ("music you like" and "deeply embarrassing music") apply to the whole circles... the labels inside apply only to those areas (either intersections or set differences). Or, in this case:
phlip wrote:[imath]A[/imath] = Music you like
[imath]B[/imath] = Deeply embarassing music
[imath]A \cap \bar B[/imath] = What Pandora [typically] plays
[imath]A \cap B[/imath] = What Pandora plays if anyone is around


I have no idea how you misread Bonkava's post as saying that the "music you like" label was applied to [imath]A \cap \bar B[/imath]...

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enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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evJeremy
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby evJeremy » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:32 am UTC

Ichapp wrote:... So I moved on to last.fm. Then last decided to screw us Canadians over as well. ...


They did? Then where do the Canadians listed as my Neighbors live?

Anyway, I like last.fm mainly because of how well it works with Amarok. It tends to be pretty accurate with music that I like, and there's a fair amount of community stuff available on the site.

Bonkava
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby Bonkava » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:57 pm UTC

thenonsequitur wrote:I've never seen a Venn diagram structured in this way and can't find any references online for such an "alternate form" for Venn diagrams. Can you supply a reference for this? The only time I've seen labels outside the circles is if they don't fit inside the circles. In this case, the corresponding circles are empty, and don't list attributes. But I'll buy that that sort of Venn diagram makes sense, and probably does occur even though I have personally never seen it.


Image

A fourth grade class made that but that's fine because usually it's only teachers who want you to make this type of Venn Diagram.

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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby Spoom » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:02 pm UTC

People outside the US:

Pandora + Firefox + FoxyProxy with pattern for http://www.pandora.com/* + Tor + StrictExitNodes + all US exit nodes (harvested from Torstat using CC US and filtered on Fast, Exit, Stable, and Valid) = Pandora accessible anywhere. :)

The good part is that they don't do IP geolocation on the audio servers, so you only have to go through Tor for the website proper (and the pattern works with this as the audio servers are subdomains of pandora.com).
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby nico » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:19 pm UTC

Spoom wrote:People outside the US:

Pandora + Firefox + FoxyProxy with pattern for http://www.pandora.com/* + Tor + StrictExitNodes + all US exit nodes (harvested from Torstat using CC US and filtered on Fast, Exit, Stable, and Valid) = Pandora accessible anywhere. :)

The good part is that they don't do IP geolocation on the audio servers, so you only have to go through Tor for the website proper (and the pattern works with this as the audio servers are subdomains of pandora.com).


What's the point of using Tor etc? Can't you just go through a public US proxy with FoxyProxy? (hint: yes it works)

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Spoom
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby Spoom » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:31 pm UTC

nico wrote:What's the point of using Tor etc? Can't you just go through a public US proxy with FoxyProxy? (hint: yes it works)

Sure, that works too.
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Re: "Pandora" Discussion

Postby floydsir » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:57 pm UTC

This exact thing just happened to my coworker. Same song and all.


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