0680: "December 25th"

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Arvedui
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby Arvedui » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:11 pm UTC

Thirdly, you call religion evil. Without religion you wouldn't have a conception of evil. Sorry, but "evil" requires a moral system and morals come from religion. I'm sorry but you're a walking contradiction.
Excuse me? I'm atheist, I have no religion. Are you saying I have no morals? Morals do not come from religion, thank you very much.
Fourthly, presumably you are looking to the birth of modern atheism in the French Revolution for your foundation in reason, no? Why don't you see where their atheist morals got them? Dare I mention... guillotine?
The Enlightenment, Renaissance, The Greek Sophists, and many of the founders of our way of life were atheist/deist. You're Christian, right? Dare I mention the Purges, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the planned slaughter of Native Americans in the name of Christianity?

I laugh at all those douchebag atheists who boldly set out on a quest to bring all the world's religions to their knees. They have utterly missed the point: by affirming such strong belief in atheism, they are effectively religious themselves - unquestioningly loyal to the altar of no gods. If they were really the "rational" people they claim they want everyone else to be, they'd sit down and shut up.
Quite. Reason comes from understanding, not fighting.

Birthdays are stupid, IMO.

Why do you celebrate the earth being arbitrarily close to the same spot in the solar system as the place where you first stuck your head out of your mother's vagina?

Seriously. Arbitrary.
I suggest we just replace every birthday with gift-giving day. So much more worthwhile.
What is the ultimate assumption of science? That we can observe the universe to describe it objectively?
More that the Universe is quantifiable and through enough observation, we can predict everything in the Universe completely accurately. Of course, then we got quantum physics... *sighs*

LesZedD4
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby LesZedD4 » Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:30 pm UTC

More that the Universe is quantifiable and through enough observation, we can predict everything in the Universe completely accurately. Of course, then we got quantum physics...


yeah pretty much that
Excuse me? I'm atheist, I have no religion. Are you saying I have no morals? Morals do not come from religion, thank you very much.


who do you think gave you a basis for your morals? Humans aren't very creative, at least not to the extent of being able to create an entire moral system. What is bad or wrong? If has to be compared to some standard. Is it your standard? I'm guessing you didn't sit down and create an objective morality. If you did kudos to you and my point is moot. It could also be cultural. And since the American (or most an other modern western culture) is (or was...) religious, then inguess morals do come from religion after all.

Also I think you learn in classes on rhetoric that citing a couple bad examples (such as crusades, etc.) to make a point about the whole was called a hasty generlization, i.e. A logical falacy. Not qualifying the other persons point, just suggesting not calling christianity evil because of a few political mistakes.

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demadaha
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby demadaha » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:17 pm UTC

An argument involving religion on the internet! Surely this will end with both sides acting civil and coming to a mutual understanding.
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TheGrammarBolshevik
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:23 pm UTC

LesZedD4 wrote:And since the American (or most an other modern western culture) is (or was...) religious, then inguess morals do come from religion after all.

Religion is a part of America's cultural heritage, but it's not the whole thing. We have a lot of moral values that have arisen independently or indirectly from religion, and many people — especially on these boards, and elsewhere — have morals that explicitly reject or criticize traditional religious values.

Regardless, what you are saying is tangential to the original point criticized; religion's role in the production of cultural values does not indicate the existence of a deity or other reified moral standard at its root.

LesZedD4 wrote:Also I think you learn in classes on rhetoric that citing a couple bad examples (such as crusades, etc.) to make a point about the whole was called a hasty generlization, i.e. A logical falacy. Not qualifying the other persons point, just suggesting not calling christianity evil because of a few political mistakes.

I think you've misread Arvedui's point. He/she is exposing the absurdity of attacking atheism by pointing to the beliefs of atheists. Of course nobody here sees the actions of Christians as an indicator of Christianity's credibility.
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JCM
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby JCM » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:39 pm UTC

It's sad because it's true. I know like 10 people who's birthday is on the 25th.

ThemePark
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby ThemePark » Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:11 am UTC

mjc0961 wrote:And this is why I love that my birthday is June 26th. Half a year away, no shafting for me. :twisted:

Also, regardless of not meeting the conditions of turning 27 today, I still feel the need to vomit now.

Aye. June 28th for me. And the most awesome thing about that birthday is that it always coincides with the first week of the schools summer holiday. I've only once or twice had to go to school on my birthday.
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Carteeg_Struve
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby Carteeg_Struve » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:12 am UTC

Wow. I often come to the XKCD boards to see some intelligent, yet humorous, posts on the topic of the comic. The quality of many of these posts equates to what I see on IMDB. It's a shame. I strongly believe in the freedom of religion (which includes the freedom of not being religious), and yet some choose to stick up posts trying to insult anyone who believes differently from themselves even though the comic is about people who get screwed over by a bunch of cheap-asses who wish to pay money for only a single gift for two events.

In the holiday spirit, let me just say to those posters: You have my pity for being so pathetic you can't enjoy a time of year meant to celebrate friends, family, and the spirit of giving. I hope your arrogance subsides enough for you to enjoy the good things in life.

But, back on topic: I'm in full agreement with the suggestion of the earlier post. If you give a "double gift" and the gift isn't worth a least two gifts (you know... like a kick-butt Blu-Ray player, a major piece of furniture, a car, or whatever), then when your birthday comes around, you are then to be victim to the same fate regardless of your b-day's distance from Christmas.

The only holiday I'll have to worry about will be Father's Day, but I think I'll survive. Having control of College Funds is a beautiful thing. MWAHAHAHA. Okay, so I am evil at times. I'm not perfect. :D

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TheGrammarBolshevik
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:37 am UTC

Yeah, uhh... if you're talking down at a bunch of people for arguing on the Internet, arrogance probably shouldn't be one of your charges.
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check227
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby check227 » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:46 am UTC

My wife just turned 26 on Christmas Day. She does kind of get shafted. Even more so when we spend it with my family (they usually forget). Her family use to celebrate on her half birthday, but then we got married on that day. Of course it makes birthday and anniversary very easy to remember.

Arvedui
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby Arvedui » Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:04 am UTC

And since the American (or most an other modern western culture) is (or was...) religious, then inguess morals do come from religion after all.
Morals are derived from our common humanity. We are not moral because we are religious, nor would we not be moral without religion or if religion had never been invented. Morals have existed long before religion. Religion just provided an excuse for the politically ambitious to ensure that their subjects follow those moral guidelines and are under the control of their rulers. It's not like before religion people were going around and killing each other because there were no morals, just like people still spoke before a writing system was developed. Similarly, there are morals that have developed outside of religion as well, and morals opposed to being religious and following the rules of certain religions. I highly doubt those morals are derived from religion.

Also I think you learn in classes on rhetoric that citing a couple bad examples (such as crusades, etc.) to make a point about the whole was called a hasty generlization, i.e. A logical falacy. Not qualifying the other persons point, just suggesting not calling christianity evil because of a few political mistakes.
I was showing him that he can't use that argument on atheism because it's just as invalid as me using that same argument on Christianity. I didn't really mean that Christianity as a whole is evil because of those things.

sarrel
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby sarrel » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:15 am UTC

Actually, I have a friend born around Christmas, and though she usually gets all of her presents at about the same time, she gets two, very large, sets of presents. She's one of those spoiled only-children. I have several friends who are only-children and I am ever envious of them.

jahwn lemonjello
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby jahwn lemonjello » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:29 am UTC

Mine is the 16th. Not to far, but I have never been a victim of the single gift trick. The worst part is that most of my friends are out of town, so I have to put off my celebration.
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Cathy
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby Cathy » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:35 am UTC

I created an account for the sole reason of, well, laughing my ass off. My boyfriend was born on the 19th, and has been similarly shafted, though usually gifts come in the mail, often half a month early or so... lol.

The part I found really awful was the fact that he just turned 27.... this 19th of December! >.> Now I really want to ask where his parents lived the year before he was born. But I'm not sure I really want to know, having met his mother! :P
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JohnWittle
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby JohnWittle » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:55 pm UTC

I am simply amazed at the number of people who have posted in this thread who have birthdays exactly December 25th. 1/365 chance that each individual XKCD reader has such a birthday, and yet, a couple dozens posts have been from people who were born on the 25th.

You don't get the sense of scale from looking at the bottom of the index and seeing "Total members 46811", but you sure do in this thread.

rainbow.fae
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby rainbow.fae » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:13 pm UTC

I was born on Christmas. It sucks. Most of my friends don't wish me a happy birthday or if they do get me a present, being the poor collage students that they are, they give me one present and say: "It's your birthday AND Christmas present!" I've started to take to withholding their presents if they do and then give it to them on THEIR birthday saying the same thing. It's most amusing.

But what is most ironic about being born on Christmas is that my dad's a Atheist and my mom's Wiccan. Not only that my boyfriend is a Satanist. Go figure. The irony always puts me in a good mood. I also like telling Christians that. It's fun seeing their faces. :D

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witsd
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby witsd » Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:39 pm UTC

Chalk up another one. I turned 28 on the 25th.

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troacctid
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby troacctid » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:29 am UTC

I turned 18 on the 25th. I never really felt shafted. People tell me, "Oh, it must suck when people give you just one present for your birthday and for Christmas," except that the thing is, the people who buy me gifts already thought of that, realized it would indeed suck, and decided to just get me additional gifts. *shrug*

heyytonytony
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby heyytonytony » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:37 am UTC

Hi there.

+1 to the list of Christmas babies.

Bit late because of family and whatnot, but, that's all.
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jpmahowald
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby jpmahowald » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:21 am UTC

JohnWittle wrote:I am simply amazed at the number of people who have posted in this thread who have birthdays exactly December 25th. 1/365 chance that each individual XKCD reader has such a birthday, and yet, a couple dozens posts have been from people who were born on the 25th.

You don't get the sense of scale from looking at the bottom of the index and seeing "Total members 46811", but you sure do in this thread.


I wasn't aware of the exact numbers but am not surprised at the result. Even if the odds were 1/365 (I doubt it is so evenly distributed, getting romantically snowed in only happens some fraction of the year) we have 120 or so signed up. A couple people sharing this special day may create an account to say hi. Hi!

So, selection bias galore.

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Ouch.jars
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby Ouch.jars » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:53 am UTC

sableye22 wrote:All of this talk of Christmas and Thanksgiving and Valentine's and conception dates... I was born in April, so I was conceived in July?
... :oops:

EWWW, that's when my dad's birthday is! I hate you all!


Are you me? I just realised I was born (5 April) exactly 9 months after my dad's birthday (5 July) because of this discussion.
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Robstickle
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby Robstickle » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:54 am UTC

This is something I've always wanted to bring up with friends born in late August but never have...

SocialSceneRepairman
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby SocialSceneRepairman » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:50 pm UTC

You know, reading this little crazy-off, I can't resist posting this.

celesul
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby celesul » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:40 pm UTC

I was also born on Christmas, and had the worst birthday ever this year (my 18th, no less). Mom's Jewish and dad's atheist, but dad's family is Christian, so I get stuck at a celebration of something I don't believe in on my birthday. I want to eat Chinese food on Christmas like a proper Jew, but I get stuck with turkey and other food I dislike. My parents are plenty generous with presents, but I just want yummy food and people actually remembering my birthday.

Thanks Randall! The comic was actually the highlight of my birthday...

studog
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby studog » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:22 pm UTC

Registered to say: not all holiday-birthday collisions suck. Mine and several of my friends' birthdays range from the start of Mar to Mar 17th. Free beer often results when we go out for St Patrick's Day.

...Stu

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Fallen Angel
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby Fallen Angel » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:04 pm UTC

My birthday is coming up rather quickly, and this only reminds me how fast Im aging.
I don't know why I was created... and not some other misfortunate soul.

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littlelj
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby littlelj » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:12 pm UTC

JohnWittle wrote:I am simply amazed at the number of people who have posted in this thread who have birthdays exactly December 25th. 1/365 chance that each individual XKCD reader has such a birthday, and yet, a couple dozens posts have been from people who were born on the 25th.

You don't get the sense of scale from looking at the bottom of the index and seeing "Total members 46811", but you sure do in this thread.


Except when you look at all these posters and see that the vast majority of them have a post count of 1.

Glad now and forever that my son's birthday is 22 June. Great timing also from a "cost of presents" perspective. I know precisely when (and how) he was conceived and when I wear those boots to work it makes me :twisted: I also note that there were a lot of babies born March-June 2008 in our region, following a piss-poor summer 2007. Like there was anything else to do.

The date I was probably conceived (a little simple arithmetic) is my dad's birthday. My brother is Christmas. :shock: I have had these thoughts before.
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duckshirt
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby duckshirt » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:59 am UTC

jpmahowald wrote:
JohnWittle wrote:I am simply amazed at the number of people who have posted in this thread who have birthdays exactly December 25th. 1/365 chance that each individual XKCD reader has such a birthday, and yet, a couple dozens posts have been from people who were born on the 25th.

You don't get the sense of scale from looking at the bottom of the index and seeing "Total members 46811", but you sure do in this thread.


I wasn't aware of the exact numbers but am not surprised at the result. Even if the odds were 1/365 (I doubt it is so evenly distributed, getting romantically snowed in only happens some fraction of the year) we have 120 or so signed up. A couple people sharing this special day may create an account to say hi. Hi!

So, selection bias galore.

The odds are quite a bit lower, according to these graphs. The two basic trends are that most babies are born in the late summer (supporting that snowed-in theory :) ) and that weekends and national holidays are significantly lower because planned births (C-sections, etc) don't occur much on those days, most of all Christmas, which only had about 5000 births that particular year, making the approximate probability only about half the average. Also, unlike other weekends and holidays, Christmas and New Year's have the property that they're on the same date every year, thus they're the least common birthdays of the year.

I had to analyze data from 1970 for a stats class once, and the trends were a little different back then - there were much fewer planned births, and a much bigger difference between spring and late summer.
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ctristan
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby ctristan » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:01 pm UTC

My birthday is in May but my wife's birthday is on the 31st of December so her parents and immediate family just does her birthday presents on the same day as Christmas. She doesn't really have a problem with it. She still gets two cards with money from people, a Christmas present and a birthday present from people. It's just on Christmas we go to her parents to celebrate and get all of her Christmas and birthday presents from her family and have a home-cooked meal of enchiladas, then on her actual birthday I give her her birthday presents from me and take her out to her favorite places and just spend the day with her, so it all seems to work out.

hopesdead
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Re: "December 25th" Discussion

Postby hopesdead » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:37 am UTC

I hate those who are born on holidays. I don't hate them personally because of that but they get ignored a lot. I have a friend who was born on Valentine's Day and she is ignored by her family every year. She tells me she has to remind her family it was her birthday for any attention.
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