0703: "Honor Societies"

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phlip
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby phlip » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:51 am UTC


That IE thing also has nothing to do with the page not displaying in IE.

You can tell, because the site has worked in IE before, and only stopped with this latest comic... but that CSS file hasn't changed since 2007.

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Red Hal
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Red Hal » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:55 am UTC

Great. There are now, at the present time of writing, forty-nine "Tautology Club" entries on Facebook. That's one less than fifty. How am I supposed to know which is the original that came first?
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:57 am UTC

I think this one is nice, but it's probably unfair to join it over the ones that existed before the strip was published.

KeithIrwin wrote:By the way, amongst my favorite phrases is "illogical tautology". It's used by evolution opponents to try to dismiss the idea that the most fit to survive will survive.

Yeah, I've heard the evolution tautology described as, "That which survives, survives", QED evolution is meaningless.

Of course, that's not quite right. Evolution can be more accurately expressed as, "That which survives, bones." Which isn't a tautology.
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby makc » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:05 am UTC

phlip wrote:

That IE thing also has nothing to do with the page not displaying in IE.

You can tell, because the site has worked in IE before, and only stopped with this latest comic... but that CSS file hasn't changed since 2007.

you are right (but what I said is basically true (and tautology btw) regardless of IE problem).

But yeah, all of xkcd (not only the last one) stoped showing up in IE.

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Red Hal
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Red Hal » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:11 am UTC

Red Hal wrote:Great. There are now, at the present time of writing, forty-nine "Tautology Club" entries on Facebook. That's one less than fifty. How am I supposed to know which is the original that came first?


Problem solved, solution found.

tautology.png
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Michael of Lucan
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Michael of Lucan » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:45 am UTC

NorthLondon wrote:
LuNatic wrote:Question: What's an honor society?


Seriously, what's an "Honor Society"??? I'm sure one of you nice Americans will help out those of us who didn't attend a US school.

Also, in British English, "honor" is spelt "honour". Similar for favor/favour, etc. I know it's the correct spelling for US English, just looks different to the unfamiliar eye.


For most foreigners, the reference to honor societies is of course meaningless. It's a weird US thing, like the sport they call "football". *

And like the way that they can't spell "honour".

These are elitist societies found in many US educational institutions, with a heavy bias towards middle class and wealthy members. They have little purpose other than self-promotion of the societies and their members. Any benefits to the public, like charitable fund-raising, are just side effects to try to justify the elitism.

That's what Randall is targeting. It explains itself to USAians, but not to the rest of us.

* Non-USAians should Google "handegg", to get an explanation. In essence, it's rugby for wimps, who wear armour in case they might get a nasty bruise.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Steroid » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:46 am UTC

The Tautology Club are the mortal enemies of The Contradiction Club! As a member of the latter, I say Go Tautology Club! (I'm not the president, so I'm in charge.)

The Contradiction Club engages in all sorts of activities that we'd never do. It's a lot of fun, if you don't like fun.

Membership in the Contradiction Club is open to all the people we don't want in the Contradiction Club. (We're hoping to sign Groucho Marx soon.)

Join the Contradiction Club yesterday!

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby feedme » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:48 am UTC

anyone know why I get a blank page when I try to view xkcd.com?

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Pidgeot » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:56 am UTC

Sk25 wrote:
Pidgeot wrote:IE doesn't properly display the page, because, for whatever reason, Randall never closes the title tag and this is not one of the HTML things that IE auto-corrects. Thus, IE reads everything as being in the title (and probably breaks totally when it encounters all that extra HTML in there).


Are you sure? Opera displays today's comic incorrectly too, but I never had any problem with earlier comics. The title tag must always be closed, so this should be fixed.


Quite sure. I checked both the page source, and the DOM that IE creates from it. The title tag isn't closed.

It doesn't SHOW everything as the title - in fact, the DOM says the title tag is empty - but I would assume the IE team hardcoded some upper limit in there which it hits, and consequently throws the title away, because they consider it hopelessly invalid. (Of course, that's just guessing.)

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby mykaDragonBlue » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:05 pm UTC

Pidgeot wrote:
Sk25 wrote:
Pidgeot wrote:IE doesn't properly display the page, because, for whatever reason, Randall never closes the title tag and this is not one of the HTML things that IE auto-corrects. Thus, IE reads everything as being in the title (and probably breaks totally when it encounters all that extra HTML in there).


Are you sure? Opera displays today's comic incorrectly too, but I never had any problem with earlier comics. The title tag must always be closed, so this should be fixed.


Quite sure. I checked both the page source, and the DOM that IE creates from it. The title tag isn't closed.

It doesn't SHOW everything as the title - in fact, the DOM says the title tag is empty - but I would assume the IE team hardcoded some upper limit in there which it hits, and consequently throws the title away, because they consider it hopelessly invalid. (Of course, that's just guessing.)


Indeed, Opera has worked fine in the past, but no longer does. I went and checked a few random (even quite early) comics, and none display at the moment.

Opera currently puts the entire remaining source into the page title, as demonstrated by checking the 'info' panel.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Ells » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:17 pm UTC

If you use Opera just use the view/source option and add the closing </title> tag after <title>xkcd: Honor Societies

Then Apply changes.

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This is the title of the 1st post.

Postby neoliminal » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:26 pm UTC

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55228

I'm going to write "Get out of my head Randal" because I want Randal to get out of my head.
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby wakingrufus » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:35 pm UTC

Image
if you type "taut" into google, "tautology club" is the #1 suggestion.
Randal, You are taking over the Internet a little bit more every day.
also:
http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends? ... -2-17&sa=X

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Zach515 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:38 pm UTC

And you know there is already a bunch of physicists who are ready to join this club: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principal

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby SQLGuru » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:00 pm UTC

Editer wrote:Jason Fox, third from left.

That's what I came to say. But where is Marcus?

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Xutar » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:07 pm UTC

I just submitted my National Honors Society application 10 minutes ago (literally). Randall, stop-following-high-school-curricula-so-you-can-make-relevant-comics-to-your-high-school-target-audience my head!

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby 6453893 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:14 pm UTC

This is the first XKCD ever to make me laugh out loud. I usually find them funny (hilarious, even) but really none have caused me to burst out in audible laughter before.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby hastern » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:20 pm UTC

gee -- that's the same group that I created a while ago: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/grou ... 7454094840
neat.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby NickJohnson » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:25 pm UTC

6453893 wrote:This is the first XKCD ever to make me laugh out loud. I usually find them funny (hilarious, even) but really none have caused me to burst out in audible laughter before.


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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Unprodigy » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:25 pm UTC

Um, "I should join this honor society to show colleges I'm honorable, and I'm honorable because I'm in an honor society" is not a tautology at all. Neither is the argument implied to be the answer to the question proposed by the title text ("I get to be President of Tautology Club because I make the rules since I'm President"). Neither uses different words with the same meaning while making a single point, rather they claim the points prove themselves in points distinct from the original points. That is the logical fallacy called begging the question.

Just had to point that out. (Also, using a word several times simply because it's the word that fits is simply repetition.)

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Quake » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:30 pm UTC

Why not motto : "We yare what we yare", as slogan?

Q.

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BLEEGLE
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby jeff@orca.lu » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:44 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:
prokrastinatorSF wrote:Noooo, don't make a million of the same facebook group!!!

Redundancy =/= tautology. This is, of course, because tautology =/= redundancy.

@LondubhAWC : Then the group's name would just be incorrect.


There's no redundancy like superfluous redundancy.


Haha, tautology xD

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Rejusu » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:47 pm UTC

Hah. The Wikipedia article on tautology is already protected due to a spat going on between people trying to add the XKCD reference and people trying to remove it.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby sinni800 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:47 pm UTC

If 1.000.000 people joined the tautology club it should have 1.000.001 in it! The creator doesn't join. He creates!

Also yes, I registered just to point this out

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby mturyn » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:56 pm UTC

The Tautology Society's anthem? "We 're Here Because We 're Here Because We 're Here"---the tune is Auld Lang Syne, you can guess the lyrics---a song that annoyed my father during the Second World War, and to which he responded, 'No, it's because we're not anywhere else.'

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby SpringLoaded12 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:07 pm UTC

Can you say, THE REFLEXIVE AND SYMMETRIC PROPERTIES OF EQUALITY?

Or does that only apply to mathematics, and not to rhetoric?

Rejusu wrote:Hah. The Wikipedia article on tautology is already protected due to a spat going on between people trying to add the XKCD reference and people trying to remove it.

Something similar happened when Randall made the comic called "Qwertial Aphasia". Someone created the Wikipedia article, and then it was deleted because it wasn't a real acknowledged condition.
Last edited by SpringLoaded12 on Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:11 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby rrwoods » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:09 pm UTC

I realize this thread is now about tautologies, but I still want to say that I am in love with this comic. Tautological honor societies FTL.
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby SolkaTruesilver » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:17 pm UTC

Honor society, eh?

Another crazy american culture element I'm soooo glad do not exist where I come from...

freddyfish
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby freddyfish » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:29 pm UTC

the first panel isnt really a tautology...
just sayin

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby jc » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:33 pm UTC

the_original_xy wrote:most of you aren't actually using tautology, you're just repeating the same thing over again.

Yeah, I've also found it annoying that so many posters are claiming tautology for what is merely repetition. You'd think they'd want to do at least a bit of thinking, and come up with things like:

1. The first rule of Tautology Club is that no rule may precede the first rule.

2. The second rule of Tautology Club is that only one rule may precede the second rule.

That's not an example of great humor, either. But at least it verges on tautology, which basically means a bogus explanation that merely rephrases the topic with different words. As in the previous bogus definition of "tautology" as "rephrases the topic with different words".

So far, I'm disappointed at the low humor content of this discussion.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Robstickle » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:40 pm UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:
prokrastinatorSF wrote:1)The first rule of tautology club is the *second* rule of the tautology club.

2)The second rule of tautology club is the *first* rule of tautology club.

That's not a tautology. It's a paradox.


Unless if both rules are the same.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Tophe » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:01 pm UTC

There are also multiple redundant Department of Redundancy Department groups on Facebook, for those who are interested and concerned.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby cream wobbly » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:23 pm UTC

Heh. Religion.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby cream wobbly » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:23 pm UTC

Robstickle wrote:
Pez Dispens3r wrote:
prokrastinatorSF wrote:1)The first rule of tautology club is the *second* rule of the tautology club.

2)The second rule of tautology club is the *first* rule of tautology club.

That's not a tautology. It's a paradox.


Unless if both rules are the same.


Which they're not. [See above.]

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby cream wobbly » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:28 pm UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:I think this one is nice, but it's probably unfair to join it over the ones that existed before the strip was published.

KeithIrwin wrote:By the way, amongst my favorite phrases is "illogical tautology". It's used by evolution opponents to try to dismiss the idea that the most fit to survive will survive.

Yeah, I've heard the evolution tautology described as, "That which survives, survives", QED evolution is meaningless.

Of course, that's not quite right. Evolution can be more accurately expressed as, "That which survives, bones." Which isn't a tautology.


In other news, gravity may be expressed as, "That which falls, falls."

In yet other news, I remember a book somewhere claiming that God exists because well, he exists. But that's not a tautology, it's begging the question.

Alzhaid
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Alzhaid » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:44 pm UTC

wakingrufus wrote:Image
if you type "taut" into google, "tautology club" is the #1 suggestion.
Randal, You are taking over the Internet a little bit more every day.
also:
http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends? ... -2-17&sa=X


Wonderful, and right now it's on 4th position (and climbing?)
"tautology club Hotness: On Fire"

RogueCynic
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby RogueCynic » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:52 pm UTC

Reminds me of Socrate's dialogue with Euthypro.
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Exerci » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:05 pm UTC

It's a bit silly how a lot of people in this thread do not get the difference between begging the question, redundancy, and tautology.

begging the question is determining something to be true, but having to assume your conclusion to prove your conclusion. "Because God exists, he exists". Not to mention the other thing distinguishing this from a tautology. It can be wrong, if the 'because blah' is wrong. This sentence is contingent on reality.

Redundancy: "I saw a circular circle". No point in mentioning it's circular, as it's a circle and they're defined by being circular. Still contingent on reality though. Did you see this circle?

A tautology is a sentence or a statement that is, no matter what extraneous circumstances, true. Example: "Either it's raining... or it's not" No matter if it rains or not, this sentence is true. Not contingent on reality.

A contradiction is the opposite of a tautology. It's a statement that is, no matter what extraneous circumstances, false. Example: "It's raining and it's not raining". No matter how the weather is, this cannot be true.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby mootinator » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:18 pm UTC

1. The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club.
2. The second rule of tautology club is *not* the first rule of tautology club.
3. When someone says stop, or goes limp, even if he's just faking it, he is communicating.
4. A statement is either true or false, not both.
5. If guy A is always fighting with guy B and guy B is always fighting with guy C then guy A is always in a fight involving guy C too, and there's really nothing we can do about that.
6. If someone has NO (shirt OR shoes) they are wearing NO shoes AND NO shirt.
7. A statement is true as long as it is not false.
8. If this is your first night at tautology club, you have never been here before.

Edit: I made this list just to make a cheap reference to DeMorgan's Law. I think that makes me a nerd. That and the fact I couldn't bring myself to not bracket shirt or shoes even though it reads just fine without them.
Last edited by mootinator on Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:29 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Ivan Mawesome » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:22 pm UTC

Randall must have read my mind. I created this group yesterday: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/grou ... 0391266989


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