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Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:47 am UTC
by Kyrn
Akinera wrote:
keithc wrote:
Tyr_oathkeeper wrote:That last one really jumps out at me. "Don't Discuss The Rules with Your Therapist."
That there's might suspicious.

First rule of The Rules is ... (OK, it's the last, but anyway). So The Rules is just Fight Club for girls. Hmm, actually, that works.

Only a lot less entertaining, in my opinion at least.

Unless catfighting is involved.

Not that I condone it, of course.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:56 am UTC
by Akinera
Kyrn wrote:
Akinera wrote:
keithc wrote:
Tyr_oathkeeper wrote:That last one really jumps out at me. "Don't Discuss The Rules with Your Therapist."
That there's might suspicious.

First rule of The Rules is ... (OK, it's the last, but anyway). So The Rules is just Fight Club for girls. Hmm, actually, that works.

Only a lot less entertaining, in my opinion at least.

Unless catfighting is involved.

Not that I condone it, of course.

Eh, I'm not sure that I'd want to fight another girl with all that scratching, screaming, and possible 'drama' that goes along with it, unless we're fighting each other for the same reasons they fight in Fight Club. I assume that if it's part of The Rules, any fighting with other girls would be because we're trying to prevent the other from getting a guy.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:08 am UTC
by dash
At first I thought the person in the first panel was Richard Stallman.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:12 am UTC
by Readout
Karalyn wrote:It's less about showing off to anyone, and more about your self respect. Keeping yourself clean cut and nice looking is about having respect for your body and not neglecting it. It indicates that you value yourself, and have high self-esteem. I look nice for myself, because I have pride in myself.


Not always. For example, I don't do anything to purdy myself up, but that doesn't mean I don't have respect for my body and it says nothing about my self-esteem. Actually, I'd say of the people I know, the ones who spend more time on their looks actually have a lower self-esteem.

I could give a great monologue about this, but I'd rather point to an episode of House. Go watch One Day, One Room (3x12) and let the soothing tones of Hugh Laurie's American Accent fill your brain.
Because, lets face it, it's probably nicer than whatever voice you're reading this in.

As for comic, made me amused. If only it would happen in real life.... Better than my strange dream where I was stuck in a cardboard box floating in space desperately trying to fix the engines.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:54 am UTC
by BAReFOOt
Just so you know: “The Game” or rather the “Mistery Method” as its generic name is, is the outdated last generation. (The second, after the morally unacceptable NLP / Ross Jeffries one.) Its basic fault is the one of faking some “fun” personality with routines. Which obviously fails, as soon as you run out of routines. Mistery himself can keep it up for hours, and others too. But there always is a moment of failure. No exceptions.

The current generation is the “Real Social Dynamics” one. Which looks at the actual social dynamics between people, and manages to explain and train all but a single thing about it, and is much closer to meeting up with psychology. (Which itself still has to meet up with neurology and physics.)

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

That single thing is, that it still expects you to lie to yourself, about who you are, until you become what you want to become, and it becomes the truth. Which should work, because of the effect called “self-fulfilling prophecy”, where people try to live up to their expectations about themselves. But for intelligent people, it does not work well. Because we can’t lie to our mind. And in general, because people (especially women) can see if someone lies to himself. (Cue: Micro-expressions & co.)

The rest of what’s now the current state is just about becoming exactly, what you would call someone who is naturally good with women. In the manner of how it was thought by nature. Which mostly only involves laying off false social conditioning (like „women want men who are rich“), learning about the actual mechanics of pick-up and relationships (the first generation, to care about the time after the pick-up), and then re-training yourself with well-known methods (self-fulfilling prophecy, and training as in sports).

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Since I am one of the first (if not the first), who can match every psychological behavior to a neurological behavior, and I studied this for the last two years, I managed to explain most of how a man and a woman get together (or rather: how they work) in terms of that. Much of it is basic physics of (what is) life though, and is just as much true for all life in all of the universe ever.

So nowadays, I recommend checking out RSD’s Foundations and then Blueprint Decoded, but to always question things. (Meaning: If you blindly believe everything you hear, you should avoid any type of life-help until you don’t anyway!) As I said, it’s far from perfect. So i recommend learning something about how the brain works (neural networks in general. the more general, the better actually!), how emotions work (very important) (here I recommend Antonio Damasio, the psychologist), and how life, natural selection and those things are defined (including basic physics knowledge that everyone should have) and define our society (Especially that everything we think we know, is relative (=biased) to what we knew and where/who we were/are, and hence there is no objectivity or general “truth” for us. [There still of course are physical laws. But as you know, even most of those are relative to your position, mass, etc.] Which means that there also is no global “good” or “bad”. [Something, Zen has realized, a loong time ago.]).

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

As a side-effect, this will teach you how to be a leader and dominate reality. Which means, you can continue straight to social engineering / mind hacking in general (which is also used in politics, marketing, etc.). But please don’t use it in a way that hurts others too much. You might hurt yourself, because those others can be very helpful/useful.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:02 pm UTC
by willpellmn
When I read the alt-text I was expecting the last book mentioned to be "Are you there God, it's me Margaret". Which would probably be a fun one to cross with "Metamorphosis", actually. (Yes, cross-breeding books, I love it.)

Congrats on 800, Randall! KUTGW. Hopefully he has something special planned for 842.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:10 pm UTC
by FireZs
People really like the idea of "there are a set of behaviors for me that, if followed, will make someone become attracted to me." This is false. The only thing you can do is to not screw it up with the people who are already attracted to you. Those are the parts of the game and the rules that "work." If you are one of those people who have a very tiny set of potential mates who are attracted to you, then no amount of game or rules is going to help very much.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:16 pm UTC
by jules.LT
Those ladies have a REALLY outdated idea of who M.Right should be.
I'd be fed up with a "Rules Girl" way before she'd dump me because I forgot about an anniversary :roll: :roll:
Rule #1: Get your priorities straight, girl! (or guy, for that matter)

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:29 pm UTC
by monicaclaire
LucasBrown wrote:It's about time Kafka came up, but those must be some whacky dreams.


Yes, They are quite weird.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:59 pm UTC
by edbdqt
Aster Selene wrote:Comic number 800 and he doesn't do anything epic.

It's too bad.


He was scared. After all, 800 is a BIG ROUND number!!!!!

I liked the comic, and appreciated the alt text more after someone clarified how the metamorphosis ends. Relationships have always been about the apple. :)

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:19 pm UTC
by Superisis
While the game can be horrible (such as any self help guides/rules when you only take them at face value and dont account for any alternatives), at it's core it's all about deconstructing social relationships and being critical to oneself and asking the questions "what am I doing?", "why am I doing it?" and "what does it lead to?". Anything canned or scripted or rehearsed is used by those new to it, who are afraid to even talk to a stranger. Those who only stick to these things are obviously not that good and probably (if they've been doing it for a long time without moving on) douchebags/idiots. In general I'd say the game is about questioning and criticising yourself in your social relations (which is really only applicable if you're not satisfied with your social relations). The book itself brings up the potential herd behavior and dogma as a danger that one should stay away from.

On the contrary The Rules seem to be (haven't read it) all about slavishly following the teachings of its authors:

26: Even if You're Engaged or Married, You Still Need The Rules
27: Do The Rules, Even when Your Friends & Parents Think It's Nuts
31: Don't Discuss The Rules with Your Therapist.
32: Don't Break The Rules!
33: Do The Rules and You’ll Live Happily Ever After!

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:39 pm UTC
by myrcutio
My first thought on reading the alt text was of Ovid's Metamorphoses. It makes sense, since Daphne was turned into a tree while being chased by a rapist Apollo. Comparing the Giving Tree with Ovid makes me think of a nymph with PTSD trying to kill herself, with love.

Edit:
Image Apollo is in the last frame. The tree is a "Rules" girl.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:42 pm UTC
by SirMustapha
Did anyone find the humour in this comic strip yet?

Wake me up when you do.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:46 pm UTC
by oten
FireZs wrote:People really like the idea of "there are a set of behaviors for me that, if followed, will make someone become attracted to me." This is false. The only thing you can do is to not screw it up with the people who are already attracted to you. Those are the parts of the game and the rules that "work." If you are one of those people who have a very tiny set of potential mates who are attracted to you, then no amount of game or rules is going to help very much.


Yeah, to sum it up, that's the deal. The behaviours The Game (and the seduction community) teaches are just things to a) help you get past you shyness b) get you talking to people c) keep you from being written of as "another guy" for the necessary time for you to show that your a cool person.
But alas, there is a catch. You have to invest some time in becoming an attractive person. I.e. Learn to talk, learn not to be a slob and to dress well (which does not mean dressing like something out of a fashion magazine, i still go out with my zombies were people too hoodie), learn not creep people out, and sometimes just learn to be more positive.

For me it helped me a lot. Created a instant group of guys that are available to go out when i moved out to a new city. And yes, some were douches, but 90% were straight up guys, who in time became my new friends, my new going out, playing video games buddies. And in that it made learn to make friends outside of the fostering walls of a college or a school.

In conclusion, nerds need some booty too, what's so bad in learning how to do it?

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:57 pm UTC
by hatten
SirMustapha wrote:Did anyone find the humour in this comic strip yet?

Wake me up when you do.

I found it amusing, until I realized that it wasn't _THE_ game (that I lost) that had a female counterpart :(

Then I thought that the giving tree was some weird religion, and everything became messy, but still amusing, because I expected to find out here what it all meant.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:26 pm UTC
by El Spark
I recognized all the references, and laughed. Yay for 800!

Re: the Rules, #5: Don't Call Him & Rarely Return His Calls

...wow. That's...yeah, great way to drive ME off, for sure.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:41 pm UTC
by dash
BAReFOOt wrote:Just so you know:


You must be very popular with the ladies.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:42 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
BAReFOOt wrote:Since I am one of the first (if not the first), who can match every psychological behavior to a neurological behavior, and I studied this for the last two years
Um... what?

You can match every psychological behavior to a neurological one? And you've managed this remarkable breakthrough after two whole years of study? Really?

Gimme a fucking break.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:52 pm UTC
by arbivark
I havent actually read 'the game' yet, but the character of Herbal is based on a guy named tynan who blogs at http://tynan.net. Very cool guy actually, travels the world, lives in a solar-powered rv, does a lot of diy stuff,
lives off the income from his books, has a pet penguin*, etc.
* http://tynan.net/the-infamous-ghetto-indoor-pool

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:55 pm UTC
by jpers36
BAReFOOt wrote:As a side-effect, this will teach you how to be a leader and dominate reality. Which means, you can continue straight to social engineering / mind hacking in general (which is also used in politics, marketing, etc.). But please don’t use it in a way that hurts others too much. You might hurt yourself, because those others can be very helpful/useful.


Unless the goal of your post was to suggest you're out of touch with reality, your hack fu is weak.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:14 pm UTC
by theflatworm
Readout wrote:floating in space desperately trying to fix the engines.


Kayle, is that you? (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0003812/)

Mmmmmmmm, if only all girls with exactly the same personality as Kaylee could be paired up with me. Or I'd settle for River (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0003810/) and take the massively dysfunctional relationship that would no-doubt ensue.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:22 pm UTC
by theflatworm
El Spark wrote:Re: the Rules, #5: Don't Call Him & Rarely Return His Calls

...wow. That's...yeah, great way to drive ME off, for sure.


Exactly. If the guy isn't a stalker, he'll figure she isn't interested and stop contacting her. What the rule #5 girl will get is a guy who doesn't actually care to read signals, and just goes after what he wants regardless of other people's feelings. I can't see a single problem with that...

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:30 pm UTC
by Rackum
theflatworm wrote:
El Spark wrote:Re: the Rules, #5: Don't Call Him & Rarely Return His Calls

...wow. That's...yeah, great way to drive ME off, for sure.


Exactly. If the guy isn't a stalker, he'll figure she isn't interested and stop contacting her. What the rule #5 girl will get is a guy who doesn't actually care to read signals, and just goes after what he wants regardless of other people's feelings. I can't see a single problem with that...


And then she'll get to implement rule #11 (eerily similar to rules 6 and 9) in an exciting fashion: a restraining order.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:05 pm UTC
by DorkRawk
Back in my single days I had a lot of people try to tell me "tricks" to pick up girls and stuff like that. The problem with these "rules" and "secrets to the game" or whatever is that it makes people think of a relationship as some sort of contest where you have to outsmart or trick the other person involved, rather than working with them.

If you're looking to just get laid, yea I'm sure there are people out there for whom these strategies would produce success, but if you actually want a decent relationship try just communicating with the other person. Quit trying to "lifehack" everything.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:44 pm UTC
by FireZs
DorkRawk wrote:Back in my single days I had a lot of people try to tell me "tricks" to pick up girls and stuff like that. The problem with these "rules" and "secrets to the game" or whatever is that it makes people think of a relationship as some sort of contest where you have to outsmart or trick the other person involved, rather than working with them.

If you're looking to just get laid, yea I'm sure there are people out there for whom these strategies would produce success, but if you actually want a decent relationship try just communicating with the other person. Quit trying to "lifehack" everything.


What does "working with them" and "communicating with the other person" entail? Just because you're accommodating and can form sentences doesn't mean she'll like you.

You're right to think that there's no "trick" or "game." But there isn't really an alternative either.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:46 pm UTC
by Elvish Pillager
I think what we all want to know is, What happens if you play The Game by The Rules?

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:24 pm UTC
by DorkRawk
FireZs wrote:What does "working with them" and "communicating with the other person" entail? Just because you're accommodating and can form sentences doesn't mean she'll like you.

You're right to think that there's no "trick" or "game." But there isn't really an alternative either.


No, I agree there's certainly no easy answer (and I guess that was my point), but learning the differences between "working with someone" and "accommodating someone" or "communicating with someone" and "forming sentences at them" is a good first step. Also, sometimes she/he just won't like you.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:30 pm UTC
by Akinera
Elvish Pillager wrote:I think what we all want to know is, What happens if you play The Game by The Rules?

Girls will finally realize how frustrating most of The Rules are and the world will be a better place.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:34 pm UTC
by benlonghair
Elvish Pillager wrote:I think what we all want to know is, What happens if you play The Game by The Rules?


If you really want to know, you should check out The Rules of the Game by Neil Strauss. Wait, I don't think that's exactly what you meant.

This comic actually prompted me to sign up for the forums. Long time reader, first time poster.

This is a timely comic in my life as I just read The Game recently. There's no reason to disparage the book. The lifestyle, yes; the book, no. Style (Neil Strauss) did not pull any punches about how misogynistic pick-up artists are.

Spoiler:
The book opens with Mystery suicidal, then by the end Project Hollywood is in shambles and everybody hates everybody.


That being said, there's a lot that can be learned about how people react in social situations if you read between the lines.

Any guy with social anxiety (they call it approach anxiety) could learn a lot from both Style and Mystery. Like all information, one must take what's useful and leave the rest.

The scripted openers and such are just to get you started. The whole idea of telling canned stories as DHVs doesn't really work, from what I've seen. There's a bunch of 'methods' out there, but they all seem to boil down to giving a framework to build social confidence around. For example, Style's Challenge (and website) are focused on making a guy a better person and more confident while also teaching how to interact socially.

Here's something that sounds ridiculously simple, but most inept guys don't realize: you have to create attraction before trying to get her number and there is a way to do that that can be demonstrated through evolutionary psychology.

Is it so bad to try to learn to be a better person that's more attractive to a member of your preferred sex?

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:08 pm UTC
by Coffee
The Game; I just lost it.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:14 pm UTC
by Elvish Pillager
The Rules; I just broke them.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:16 pm UTC
by TurboJudas
The hypothetical pairing postulated by the dream would be completely impossible! (Perhaps this is why is it was a dream....)
The Game and the Rules are completely incompatible with each other. Unless you like playing power games against each other ALL NIGHT!

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:25 pm UTC
by danix
Elvish Pillager wrote:I think what we all want to know is, What happens if you play The Game by The Rules?

I asked Joshua. He said that the only winning move is not to play. :lol:

I didn't know about the Giving Tree until now; ditto with The Rules. Nice to see that the crazies following these rules won't call back. Even better to know that they'll be the ones that pimp out on males to pay everything ... that's one of my own red flags to bail out.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:32 pm UTC
by noxiousnirvana
hmmm ... gotta read these books to understand this webcomic ... hmmm ... gotta get a life

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:36 pm UTC
by exploto
Uninfinity wrote:
Kyrn wrote:
Steve the Pocket wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:But someone will screw it up and salons will charge $75 to make your hair look like you just got out of bed. Just like you can spend extra to buy jeans that already have been torn to shreds for you.

And when that happens, who wins in the end? The stupid women who end up wasting $75 for a look their smarter peers got for free? I don't think so. :P

There are no winners, only losers.

It's a strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

EDIT: got ninja'd ^
kinda


Wait, no, that one also loses. http://xkcd.com/601/ see alt text.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:42 pm UTC
by krucifi
ermm.... this is comic 799.... why do people keep saying its his 800th?

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:43 pm UTC
by SirMustapha
The Game: if you remember it, you lose; if you give a shit, you are a loser.

Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:45 pm UTC
by SirMustapha
krucifi wrote:ermm.... this is comic 799.... why do people keep saying its his 800th?


Nobody said this is the 800th comic: people said it's comic 800, i.e., the comic numbered 800. Pointing out the "missing" comic 404 does not make you special.

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:47 pm UTC
by xnick
gmalivuk wrote:Gimme a fucking break.


Would that be after or before the regular break?

I didn't get any of the references at first except for metamorphosis (which didn't help). After reading the forum and wikipedia, I re-read the strip and I think I'm still missing the punch line... The guy with the laptop and the "mmmmmm" :O

Do you have some theories?

Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:50 pm UTC
by Rackum
xnick wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Gimme a fucking break.


Would that be after or before the regular break?

I didn't get any of the references at first except for metamorphosis (which didn't help). After reading the forum and wikipedia, I re-read the strip and I think I'm still missing the punch line... The guy with the laptop and the "mmmmmm" :O

Do you have some theories?


The "mmmmmmm" represents him pleasantly imagining a world in which all women who subscribe to the craziness from "The Rules" and men who use the techniques from "The Game" pair off and the rest of us don't have to worry about accidentally dating them anymore.