0868: "Nolan Chart"

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0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Diadem » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:11 am UTC

Image
Alt text: "Also in the right quadrant are NFPA-compliant chemical manufacturers and Sir Charles Wheatstone. Sharing the top with the internet libertarians are Nate Silver and several politically-active kite designers."

Made me laugh. I've always liked diamond shaped diagrams myself, even though I'm not a libertarian. Perhaps mathematicians should get a pass as well?
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Re: Nolan Chart

Postby Cal Engime » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:14 am UTC


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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby VectorZero » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:16 am UTC

So, baseball fans = politically apathetic?
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby shniz » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:17 am UTC

and Nolan Ryan for the baseball quadrant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Ryan

can we have all the bases covered with a Nolan?

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Re: Nolan Chart

Postby Majuba » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:18 am UTC

First thing I thought of when I saw "political opinions" on the chart was Nate Silver - awesome!

I think I'll have to agree with Diadem, mathematicians must get a pass on being pushed into libertarianism via DSD-philia.

By the way Diadem, I believe you need the comic # and quotes around the title. - ah, Done!

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby alahos » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:18 am UTC

If the flammability index is 4, do we get a flame war?

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Diadem » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:20 am UTC

shniz wrote:and Nolan Ryan for the baseball quadrant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Ryan

can we have all the bases covered with a Nolan?

Wikipedia lists 71 Nolan's. A significant number of them are Americans. Shouldn't be too hard to get all the bases covered.

For the 'other' section we have Christopher Nolan. I also spotted a few politicians in the list, but not being American I wouldn't know which one is most famous.

Majuba wrote:By the way Diadem, I believe you need the comic # and quotes around the title. - ah, Done!

Yeah it was my first time, so I got the title wrong initially. I managed to edit it literally one second before the first post. I thought noone had noticed. Damn.
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby VectorZero » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:23 am UTC

shniz wrote:and Nolan Ryan for the baseball quadrant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Ryan

can we have all the bases covered with a Nolan?
Nolan North is at least one of Dem/Rep/Other.

Ninja'd. Yeah, let's go with Chris Nolan for other.
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby FCN » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:46 am UTC

Also in the right quadrant: 10-year-old girls.
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Lazar » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:53 am UTC

From the title, I was expecting an Inception joke.
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:54 am UTC

VectorZero wrote:So, baseball fans = politically apathetic?


Too much of their time/mind/thought is devoted to sports. Politics is a lot like sports, except that it actually matters.

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Eternal Density » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:57 am UTC

I personally must respond in the following fashion:
"What is this, I don't even?"
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:03 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
VectorZero wrote:So, baseball fans = politically apathetic?

Too much of their time/mind/thought is devoted to sports. Politics is a lot like sports, except that it actually matters.

Except the parts that matter are also the parts least like sports.
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby rath358 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:08 am UTC

Am I the only one who initially misread the top box as "internet librarians"?

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:12 am UTC

Political parties with in a struggle for the 'championship'. Lots of backstabbing, behind the scenes deals, betrayals, injuries/exposures, etc. Betrayals by players, switching teams, etc. Scandals galore. Plenty of die-hard fanatics on both sides, convinced that their side is the best and the other side is full of idiots/douches. Talk to a die-hard Red Sox or Mets fans about the Yankees; I've met hard-line Democrats say nicer things about the Republicans than what I heard my college freshman-year roommate say about the Yankees and Yankees fans.

Yeah, I'd say politics and sports are pretty similar.

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Glass Fractal » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:19 am UTC

Eternal Density wrote:I personally must respond in the following fashion:
"What is this, I don't even?"


David Nolan was a guy who made a diamond shaped chart designed to make Libertarianism look like an attractive political philosophy or, in the form of The World's Smallest Political Quiz, convince people they already follow it.

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:26 am UTC

Eternal Density wrote:David Nolan was a guy who made a diamond shaped chart designed to make Libertarianism look like an attractive political philosophy or, in the form of The World's Smallest Political Quiz, convince people they already follow it.


It's funny, I was showing someone else the Quiz this morning. The problem I have with it is the use of leading questions; "end 'corporate welfare'"? Does anyone support it?

Though one of the questions was a bit iffy; "There should be no laws regarding sex for consenting adults." Well, what about incest? I'm all against sodomy laws or bans on interracial marriage, also in favor of legalizing prostitution*, making me an "arch-libertarian" on that issue, but I'm kind of in favor of anti-incest laws.

*long story short, I think making it legal would allow for controls to reduce disease, crime, etc, and also cut off funds to the drug trade; why spend $50 on a disgusting crack-whore when you could find a relatively clean regular-whore?
Last edited by CorruptUser on Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:18 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby atomfullerene » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:30 am UTC

Glass Fractal wrote:David Nolan was a guy who made a diamond shaped chart designed to make Libertarianism look like an attractive political philosophy or, in the form of The World's Smallest Political Quiz, convince people they already follow it.


Multi-axis political charts aren't just Libertarian propaganda, and often make a good deal more sense than our current 1 dimensional political spectrum. The Nolan chart wasn't the first such chart--science fiction author Jerry Pournelle came up with another chart several years earlier, with different axes. It's square though, not diamond shaped.

edit: wikilink. Also, there are quite a few other charts out there, some older than the ones I've mentioned. Never seen a good 3d one though.
Last edited by atomfullerene on Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:40 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby MathUhhhSaurus » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:31 am UTC

"...and Sir Charles Wheatstone."
This should have been in the comic lol!

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:32 am UTC

atomfullerene wrote:It's square though, not diamond shaped.


Actually, it's a rhombus.

technically, all squares are diamonds

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby TzeraFNX » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:45 am UTC

rath358 wrote:Am I the only one who initially misread the top box as "internet librarians"?


No, I read it that way at first too.

This was the first comic to make me lol in a while, thanks Randall!

CorruptUser wrote:It's funny, I was showing someone else the Quiz this morning. The problem I have with it is the use of leading questions; "end 'corporate welfare'"? Does anyone support it?


I just looked at wikipedia's entry on the quiz, it's interesting to see the questions which have been rephrased. "Corporate welfare" used to be "Businesses and farms should operate without government subsidies." The change seems like an obvious ploy to get more people in the libertarian camp, since "corporate" connotes multinationals while the original phrasing can include the so called mom and pop stores.

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Idhan » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:22 am UTC

This made me laugh out loud. I bet this one will be popular on the political blogosphere.

(I'm partial to triangles myself.)

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby StClair » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:50 am UTC

rath358 wrote:Am I the only one who initially misread the top box as "internet librarians"?

Definitely not.

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby martin878 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:52 am UTC

I thought it was pretty lazy. What happened to the content rich diagrams of yore? All the alt text stuff could've been in, with fun arrows and stuff, like http://xkcd.com/540/

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Diadem » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:57 am UTC

Glass Fractal wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:I personally must respond in the following fashion:
"What is this, I don't even?"


David Nolan was a guy who made a diamond shaped chart designed to make Libertarianism look like an attractive political philosophy or, in the form of The World's Smallest Political Quiz, convince people they already follow it.

I don't t think that is entirely fair to Nolan. His two dimensional spectrum makes a lot of sense. Sure he rotated his axis in such a way as to put libertarians on top. Well, can't blame him for that, he was a libertarian wasn't he? And his rotation makes left and right on his chart roughtly correspond to left and right politically, so it even makes sense.

No 2-dimensional spectrum is perfect, just as no 1-dimensional spectrum is. Politics is more complicated. But 2-dimensional makes a lot more sense than 1-dimensional. And his two axes are the best I've seen. Atomfullerene linked the Pournelle chart, but if you label one of your axes as 'irrational' then I don't think you're doing serious political analysis.
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby mmmcannibalism » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:21 am UTC

I wish a had a more eloquent way of simply saying good comic.
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Klear » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:30 am UTC

Lazar wrote:From the title, I was expecting an Inception joke.


Yeah... a chart within a chart or something =)

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Alex Steiner » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:48 am UTC

StClair wrote:
rath358 wrote:Am I the only one who initially misread the top box as "internet librarians"?

Definitely not.
*Sheepish*

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby uncivlengr » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:19 am UTC

The "smallest political quiz ever" or whatever its called really is a sham... every question is phrased such that the affirmative answer leads you to libertarianism, and even then the questions are worded in such a way that that it feels like you're coerced into agreeing with something you don't fully support in general circumstances - wasn't one of them something like, "cut government spending by half"? Sure it's easy to agree with that when you can just assume that government programs that get cut aren't the ones you support.

The chart itself, as mentioned, is also incredibly biased - instead of being placed on a spectrum, you get a "score" in politics and economics - guess where a score of 100% in both categories plants you.
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby masher » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:35 am UTC

rath358 wrote:Am I the only one who initially misread the top box as "internet librarians"?

Nope... :oops:

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby squig » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:39 am UTC

rath358 wrote:Am I the only one who initially misread the top box as "internet librarians"?


Me too.

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby duckshirt » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:22 pm UTC

So awesomely true. Also, I am "right-wing" on this diagram. :D
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby arcticfox.sq » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:32 pm UTC

o_0 This is the first time I've seen a diamond shaped diagram. Strangely, it looks just just like a normal one about to tip over.
Image

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby tias42 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:44 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Though one of the questions was a bit iffy; "There should be no laws regarding sex for consenting adults." Well, what about incest? I'm all against sodomy laws or bans on interracial marriage, also in favor of legalizing prostitution*, making me an "arch-libertarian" on that issue, but I'm kind of in favor of anti-incest laws.

*long story short, I think making it legal would allow for controls to reduce disease, crime, etc, and also cut off funds to the drug trade; why spend $50 on a disgusting crack-whore when you could find a relatively clean regular-whore?


What countries is prostitution illegal in? (smite me not for my ignorance)

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Sprocket » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:21 pm UTC

Holy crap I have no familiarity with this reference.
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby xepher » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:23 pm UTC

tias42 wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Though one of the questions was a bit iffy; "There should be no laws regarding sex for consenting adults." Well, what about incest? I'm all against sodomy laws or bans on interracial marriage, also in favor of legalizing prostitution*, making me an "arch-libertarian" on that issue, but I'm kind of in favor of anti-incest laws.

*long story short, I think making it legal would allow for controls to reduce disease, crime, etc, and also cut off funds to the drug trade; why spend $50 on a disgusting crack-whore when you could find a relatively clean regular-whore?


What countries is prostitution illegal in? (smite me not for my ignorance)

If I remember correctly, it is illegal in most of the USA. I know Nevada is an exception, but nothing else comes to mind.

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Nooseybear » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:28 pm UTC

rath358 wrote:Am I the only one who initially misread the top box as "internet librarians"?


I actually thought it was 'internet librarians' until I saw your post...

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby Diadem » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:50 pm UTC

tias42 wrote:What countries is prostitution illegal in? (smite me not for my ignorance)

Can I smite you for not using wikipedia?

Prostitution is actually legal in surprisingly many countries
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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby neoliminal » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:00 pm UTC

Nooseybear wrote:
rath358 wrote:Am I the only one who initially misread the top box as "internet librarians"?


I actually thought it was 'internet librarians' until I saw your post...


I thought it was Internet Libertarians until I read your posts, now I can only see librarians.

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Re: 0868: "Nolan Chart"

Postby sab39 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:40 pm UTC

uncivlengr wrote:wasn't one of them something like, "cut government spending by half"? Sure it's easy to agree with that when you can just assume that government programs that get cut aren't the ones you support.


If true, that's spectacularly asinine because it's impossible to give a coherent and consistent answer to that question if you have a coherent opinion about government spending.

By "coherent", I mean that you believe there is some approximate level of government spending $X per year (or per person per year or per dollar of GDP or per something) that is appropriate, even if X=0 (and I think even most libertarians agree that X > 0, so I wouldn't say X=0 is a remotely sensible opinion, but it is coherent).

If you have any opinion at all about the appropriate level of government spending, then your answer to "should spending be cut by half" will vary over time depending on what the level of spending happens to be at the time. Does it make any sense at all that someone taking the quiz ten years ago should get a different answer than someone taking it now, despite their opinion of the appropriate level of spending staying exactly the same?

Apparently the test was written by the sort of person who, when asked what his salary ought to be, always answers with double whatever his salary actually IS. In a crazy world where this kind of cheapened libertarianism won out and spending WAS cut in half (presumably by eliminating Medicare, since that's the only way you could achieve that level of cuts) they'd simply say that they want to cut spending by a further half. Their "appropriate level of spending" is just "half whatever the current level is at any given time".

I have a lot of sympathy for libertarianism, in theory, especially on the social side, but too many of its advocates turn me off by arguing from blatant illogic.


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