KrytenKoro wrote:Jolly, but irrelevant. Collegestudent was replying with a specific situation to a specific question. His answer made sense. I was responding to mcv's complaint about that specific situation: A nonbeliever of the belief in question flippantly saying that the belief in question is unimportant, with NO PROMPTING FROM THE BELIEVER.
we were talking about the same situation and question.. I assume we just interpreted it differently.
the way I see it..
I don't think it's that big of a stretch, but even suggesting that other religions may have merit gets me shunned at family gatherings sometimes.
you see.. my personal experience makes it hard for me to imagine this comment just popping out of thin air.. it looks more like a response to an ongoing discussion..
....right. One that collegestudent replied to on the other page, with a list of possible reasons, and vmc replied to again. Which is why I keep saying "in collegestudent's situation". So it seems that, yes, you were talking about a different hypothetical than me, and I apologize for misunderstanding you.
Making assumptions (ASS-U-ME, hahaha), I would guess that the family of the guy in question is probably shutting out all discussion, which, further assuming that they were Christians, would be antithetical to the explicit tenets of their religion. There's even a parable (about badly-planted crops) about why you should not act like the family in question, again, assuming that any of my assumptions are correct. So, they would not be in the right.
as for your point about Christianity.
there are many faiths in the world, many bizarre and strange (due to culture differences) and just because a tenant of one of the popular ones says they should keep trying to convert me, doesn't mean that I should ignore their bad manners.
If a tenet of your faith is to not ignore what it defines as bad manners, sure. Doing it despite that is simply trying to impinge on religious freedom.
Here in Israel I am surrounded by people who believe that since I am Jewish, I should follow their view of Judaism.
they claim that I offend them by expressing a wish for public transportation on Shabbos, they are offended when they see me eat a cheeseburger. many neighborhoods I will get literally stoned if I break any of their rules in public..
so I avoid those neighborhoods, I don't want to cause conflict.. but they don't avoid my neighborhood. they don't mind approaching my little brother and trying to convince him that their way is the right one.. they don't mind verbally asulting my sister and calling her words I will not repeat here, for the great offence of displaying her shoulders in public. and what gulls me is that everyone seems to be OK with it.. because they have faith.
...again, that is their faith. That is how they define the core of their identity
. Of course it makes sense that they are doing it. Demanding they do anything else is quite literally forcing others' beliefs on them.
Like I've been trying to say, this applies no matter the belief system. I don't agree with everything Richard Dawkins says, but I respect that his beliefs compel him to proselytize his message, and so I don't fault him as a cold, cruel person for it. I may, from the viewpoint of my faith, believe that what he is saying
is detrimental to the souls of his audience, but my personal beliefs would compel me to either attempt to counter his message with similar proselytization, attempt to convert him directly, or most biblically, pray to my God to show him His truth.
Many of my friends are atheists, and I respect their stances a lot of the time. I may disagree with it, and I will certainly attempt to reason with them, but I would not shun any person unless they were fundamentally untrue to their beliefs (for example, claiming to base their beliefs solely on empirical science and rational logic, but being tremendously lazy, intellectually), or if they refused to discuss the matter at all.
I have faith as well.. I believe that if there is a god, then he doesn't care if you cut toilet paper on the wrong day, that he doesn't care if I shook the hand of a lady friend, or that he doesn't care what hat you are wearing. (all those for some reason are very important to them) but if I will go and try to convert them.. I will be seen as the bad guy.
No one was talking about attempting to convert being the bad thing. In fact, most of what you responded to said that, if your beliefs compel you to, you are absolutely expected
this is what gulls me, the double standard. I don't care what they believe.. all I want is to be left alone.
And they want to not leave you alone. So we can't say what is right and wrong based solely on what individuals "want". And without bringing in a divinity to say that "oh, religion X is right, all others are wrong", we can't say what is absolutely good and bad. The closest we can do, while retaining freedom of belief, is to ask people to be true to their sincere beliefs. That is a single standard for everyone, which allows for self-liberty.
I can deal with my religious friends. they are the live and let live kind, I can deal with my religious coworkers, they are more concerned with whether or not I do my job, then with my soul.. but the occasional people who believe they are allowed to preach (and worse), just because they have the "true" faith.. those.. I don't really like. this is the exact trait that gets the W.B.C. so hated.
No, the exact trait that gets them hated is the fact that they use hatred to proselytize. It is totally possible to preach with love and kindness - it's as simple as saying "this seems true to me, for these reasons, and it has given me these benefits. If you follow it, you should be rewarded as well."
As for your friends and coworkers - I sincerely hope that they do not belong to any religion, such as Christianity, that asks followers to "spread the good word". If they do claim to follow that, and they show as much apathy to others' souls as you claim, then they are either traitors to their faith, moral cowards, or they simply don't like you and don't want to see you in the afterlife. Either way, there is nothing to respect about such a stance.
also. about the W. Baptists, they might hold a different view about Christianity and it's meaning then most other Christians.. but they don't betray their believes.. they stick to them.
The innate dishonesty in their practice is that they claim to follow the Bible, a written document, which explicitly says not to spread the word of God through hatred. Hell, for all the "divinely-blessed wars" in the Bible, I don't think any of them were actually about trying to spread their religion; more about "these people are evil, it's better to give them unto death then allow them to live and spread evil even farther."
From the elegant yelling of this compelling dispute comes the ghastly suspicion my opposition's a fruit.