0903: "Extended Mind"

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gojja
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby gojja » Wed May 25, 2011 6:27 am UTC

This is a somewhat related subject on finding the the link distance between 2 articles using all the links: http://www.netsoc.tcd.ie/~mu/wiki/

ohuf
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby ohuf » Wed May 25, 2011 6:28 am UTC

ALT TEXT Doesen't work for the German Wikipedia: started with "Dodo" (the bird) and ended up in a loop...

Zenock
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Zenock » Wed May 25, 2011 6:30 am UTC

I tried "Frog Legs" for some reason. Don't know why. Anyway it loops. Sigh...

One thing I find interesting is, that if the assumption is true then all articles also lead to "Reason" which in my opinion is much cooler than Philosophy. But then my opinion isn't worth much.

Z.

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Fixblor
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Fixblor » Wed May 25, 2011 6:36 am UTC

Question: What about first links that lead to a subsection of another article? Does the game imply that the next link is within that subsection or at the top of the main article?
e.g. "NASA"'s first link leads to "#Executive branch" which is a subsection of the "Federal government of the United States" main article.
Is the next link 'Cabinet' (leads to "United States Cabinet") or 'national government' (leads to "Central government")?

I demand arbitration!
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dr pepper
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby dr pepper » Wed May 25, 2011 6:38 am UTC

01. Fred Flintstone
02. Protagonist
03. Character
04. Representation
05. Aesthetics
06. Ascetic
07. Acetic Acid
08. Organic Acid
09. Organic Compound
10. Gaseous
11. Three Classical States of Matter
12. Solid
13. State of Matter (top of same page as 11)
14. Phase (Matter)
15. Outline of Physical Science
16. Natural Science
17. Science
18. Knowledge
19. Facts
20. Information
21. Sequence
22. Mathematics
23. Quantity
24. Property (Philosophy)
25. Modern Philosophy
26. Philosophy


01. Hula Hoop
02. Toy
03. Play
04. Ethology
05. Zoology
06. Biology
07. Natural Science
See Above

Obviously once you hit any branch of science, you're going to get there.

Randomizer
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Randomizer » Wed May 25, 2011 6:43 am UTC

The alt text didn't say anything about not using links in boxes - just ones in italics and/or parenthesis. As such, to everyone hitting "Umbrella term", it goes Umbrella term -> Wikipedia:Citing sources -> Category:Wikipedia content guidelines -> Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines -> Wikipedia:Five pillars -> Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not -> Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines

(I started with the random article Pietra dura and it went a few links before hitting umbrella term.)

Draco18s wrote:
Nicad wrote:I find it interesting that the alt text seems to be more of a focus of discussion than the actual comic. :)


...I have just wasted 20 minutes trying to find a counterexample which is not a loop.

Eternal Density wrote:We should totally make an application which scrapes all the first links in all wikipedia articles and finds all the loops and then determines what percentage of articles are directed to each loop. For science. And so we know how correct/incorrect Randall is.

I think Randall was trying to get all his readers to crash Wikipedia with a sudden influx of mass article-clicking. :wink:
Belial wrote:I'm all outraged out. Call me when the violent rebellion starts.

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Almost in register
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Almost in register » Wed May 25, 2011 6:53 am UTC

Wikipedia wrote:Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with existence...
Reading the first sentence of the philosophy article, all I can say is of course everything ends up there. It really should come as no surprise.

Linkshot
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Re: #903: Extended Mind

Postby Linkshot » Wed May 25, 2011 6:55 am UTC

Ah, no parentheses either. That solves the Greek <-> Phonetics loop.

My path:

Start: Olimi II of Toro
1: Omukama of Toro
2: African
3: Africa
4: Continent
5: Landmass
6: Landform
7: Earth science
8: Science
9: Knowledge
10: Fact
11: Information
12: Sequence
13: Mathematics
14: Quantity
15: Property (philosophy)
16: Modern philosophy
End: Philosophy

I don't think I'll be doing this once more as I need sleep.

xhable
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby xhable » Wed May 25, 2011 6:55 am UTC

I got there with landmass - quite surprised it took so few clicks.

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super_aardvark
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby super_aardvark » Wed May 25, 2011 6:55 am UTC

Randomizer wrote:The alt text didn't say anything about not using links in boxes - just ones in italics and/or parenthesis.

It says "click on the first link in the article text not in parentheses or italics" (emphasis mine). I take that to exclude boxes and captions.

cyberjacob
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby cyberjacob » Wed May 25, 2011 6:57 am UTC

it IS the end of the world! XKCD lies!!!
it doesn't work, I tried it on the Hitchikers Guide to the Galexy (Radio Series) and I got in a loop between Greek and Language

bazza
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby bazza » Wed May 25, 2011 6:57 am UTC

I tried it for a random article, got to philosphy no problems at all!

There's going to be some smug looking philosophers strutting the streets today.

Fast Forward (Spyro Gyra album)
Spyro Gyra
United States
Federalism
Politics
Group decision making
Individual
Person
Human
Taxonomy
Science
Knowledge
Fact
Information
Sequence
Mathematics
Quantity
Property (philosophy)
Modern philosophy
Philosophy
Last edited by bazza on Wed May 25, 2011 7:06 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Scuttleduck
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Scuttleduck » Wed May 25, 2011 7:00 am UTC

hailthefish wrote: Also, if you continue taking the NEXT link each time you discover a loop (i.e. take the second link instead of the first), I imagine you will eventually end up there from any article, unless you hit a dead end. It may drastically increase the number of steps, but...


So that just means that Wikipedia has a certain number of loops in it, and the one that starts with Philosophy just has a lot of links that lead to it. So the only interesting thing about this phenomenon is that a lot of pages link to the Philosophy page.

graudrakon
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby graudrakon » Wed May 25, 2011 7:04 am UTC

I just tried wikipedia random article then following the first un-italic, un-parenthesized link. I kept arriving at knowledge and from their it's knowledge -> facts -> information -> sequence -> mathematics -> quantity -> property(philosophy) -> philosophy

creepy

arotenbe
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby arotenbe » Wed May 25, 2011 7:06 am UTC

OK, I'm officially nuts...

I want to post a link to a graph I made, but I can't because of the post count restriction, so, for anyone who wants a graph visualization:
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

# Input: A collection of lists of Wikipedia articles, separated by > or ->, with one list per line.
# Output: A Graphviz diagram description showing the relationships between the articles.
# If lists disagree as to what article an article connects to, both links are shown in the output graph.

# Sample input:
#   Philosophy->Reason->Rationality->Philosophy
#   Encyclopedia>Reference work>Compendium>Knowledge>Fact>Information
#   Computer software -> Computer programs -> Instruction set -> Computer architecture -> Computer science -> Information -> Sequence -> Mathematics -> Quantity -> Property (philosophy) -> Modern philosophy -> Philosophy

# Example usage: python wp-grapher.py < wp-graph-input.txt | dot -o wp-graph.png -Tpng

import sys

def main():
   articlesPast = dict()
   for line in sys.stdin:
      articles = [fixArticleName(article) for article in line.split(">")]
      for i, article in enumerate(articles):
         if article not in articlesPast:
            articlesPast[article] = set()
         if i < len(articles) - 1:
            articlesPast[article].add(articles[i + 1])
   
   print "digraph wikipedia {"
   for article, targets in articlesPast.items():
      for target in targets:
         print '\t"' + article + '" -> "' + target + '";'
   print "}"

def fixArticleName(name):
   newName = name
   if newName.endswith("-"):  # Catch -> instead of >.
      newName = newName[:-1]
   newName = newName.strip()
   newName = newName[0].capitalize() + newName[1:]
   newName = newName.replace("_", " ")
   return newName

main()
Just copy and paste any number of the lists in this thread into the input file.

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dr pepper
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby dr pepper » Wed May 25, 2011 7:07 am UTC

Ok, now we need a topologist to figure out the class of connectedness of Wikipedia

marcgaston
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby marcgaston » Wed May 25, 2011 7:08 am UTC

Alexor wrote:Dang, I just can't seem to reach philosophy. I keep getting trapped in the Greek Loop, as I've come to call it.


Yeah, the "Greek" <-> "French" loop. Happended to me too.

zAlbee
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby zAlbee » Wed May 25, 2011 7:34 am UTC

arotenbe wrote:I want to post a link to a graph I made, but I can't because of the post count restriction, so, for anyone who wants a graph visualization:

<python code>

Just copy and paste any number of the lists in this thread into the input file.

Aw. Can't you just paste the URL?

rikkus
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby rikkus » Wed May 25, 2011 7:37 am UTC

Many real life conversations follow this kind of route almost exactly. Online, of course, there's more likelihood that they'll pass through the Holocaust on the way.

Naga Viper pepper -> Scoville scale -> Measurement -> BWH -> Breast -> Udder -> Mammary gland -> Organ (anatomy) -> Biology ->
Natural science -> Science -> Latin -> Italic languages -> Indo-European languages -> Language family -> Language -> Information ->
Communication -> Meaning (philosophy of language) -> Aristotle -> Greeks -> Nation -> Sovereign state -> State (polity) -> Social sciences ->
Umbrella term -> Subset -> Mathematics -> Quantity -> Property (philosophy) -> Modern philosophy -> Philosophy

Weird_Al
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Weird_Al » Wed May 25, 2011 7:37 am UTC

I tried going from "Russia" (or some other term) to "Philosophy" but I keep getting into loop:
science->knowledge->fact->concept->cognition->science (again)

cazotaro
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby cazotaro » Wed May 25, 2011 7:42 am UTC

I found that for the danish version of Wikipedia, the end of the line is the article about "objekt" (object). This article is however consisting of only two lines of text, it's hardly a wonder that is a dead end.
On the german version I keep getting loops around the language articles and on the spanish version I find "objecto" (object), which leads on to "filosofia" (philosophy) and from there it's loops around greece.

Conclusion:
We danes are realistic.. or got squat.
The germans are babling.
The spanish wants to be greek.
And the englishspeaking needs to get a real hobby.
:P
However naturally the ends are quite close linked, being the foundation of our knowledge. But you already knew that :)

wlievens
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby wlievens » Wed May 25, 2011 7:42 am UTC

I tried Particracy, the name of a game I made. The results surprised me:

Particracy
Government
Social sciences
Umbrella term
Superset
Mathematics
Quantity
Property
Modern Philosophy
Philosophy


A mere nine clicks! Randall, you're good!

sylvir
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby sylvir » Wed May 25, 2011 7:48 am UTC

Starting at the wikipedia homepage on 5/25/2011 I clicked on the main article which was "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" and eventually I got stuck in this cycle:

Knowledge -> Facts -> Information -> Sequences -> Mathematics -> Quantity -> Science -> Knowledge

It does come VERY close to the tooltip though. At one point less than 20 links in I landed on "Aristotle" where the second link is "Philosopher" as noun with the adjective "Greek" which was the first link. "Philosopher" redirects to "Philosophy" so THGttG comes exactly one link away from hitting it.

thret
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby thret » Wed May 25, 2011 7:49 am UTC

wigglyworm91 wrote:This is like a child playing the "WHY" game. When they ask WHY enough you have to answer "JUST BECAUSE".

Hence, philosophy.


Pretty sure you just won this game. WP.

underthelidar
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby underthelidar » Wed May 25, 2011 7:52 am UTC

So then, here's a question: How many pages have their first link as "philosophy?" How many branches come into this "trunk," as it is?

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Covane
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Covane » Wed May 25, 2011 7:52 am UTC

Image

wtf

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estheral
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby estheral » Wed May 25, 2011 7:53 am UTC

hehe Only took me 20 clicks from "Bishoy Chalachchitra" (random article) to Philosophy, via some interesting pages (in reverse from Chrome history):

Philosophy
Modern philosophy
Property (philosophy)
Quantity
Mathematics
Sequence
Information
Fact
Knowledge
Science
Natural science
Biology
Organ (anatomy)
Mammary gland
Milk
Process
Recording
Film
Film director
Bishoy Chalachchitra

BruceJuice
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby BruceJuice » Wed May 25, 2011 7:58 am UTC

After looking up the article for "System," I discovered that the system is down.

Atomic Piranha
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Atomic Piranha » Wed May 25, 2011 8:01 am UTC

Here's an amusing path for those who remember http://xkcd.com/435/ that I found.

Sociology
Society
Interpersonal relationship
Limerence
Psychologist
Clinical Pyschology
Mental disorder
Psychology
Science
Knowledge
Fact
Information
Sequence
Mathematics

and from here it goes to philosophy. It generalizes biology, chemistry, and physics quite a bit but it looks like evidence for the comic to me! Although to be fair there should probably be a philosopher even further to the right.

sarahbau
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby sarahbau » Wed May 25, 2011 8:06 am UTC

It seems like the "quantity" page has been going back and forth between making this rule true or not. It has had 33 edits in the last 3 days, all having to do with the first link in the article (making it link to "property (philosophy)" or not). The first time I did this test with "Roman Polanski", I did not end up at Philosophy. The second time I did it, minutes later, I DID end up at Philosophy.

underthelidar
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby underthelidar » Wed May 25, 2011 8:06 am UTC

19 clicks from "xkcd" to "philosophy."

Coming_curse
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Coming_curse » Wed May 25, 2011 8:07 am UTC

Salve!
I tested it on the german Wikipedia and out of 30 times I only got to philosophy twice. 14 times i ended up in a long loop including Science, so if it were related to philosophy as the english version is the statement would be true ^-^

Stefanxd
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Stefanxd » Wed May 25, 2011 8:09 am UTC

Broken windows theory got me in a loop. I did get to aristotle though.

It's strange, even with so many articles on wikipedia i still manage to get in a loop after less than 10 clicks

arotenbe
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby arotenbe » Wed May 25, 2011 8:11 am UTC

zAlbee wrote:Aw. Can't you just paste the URL?

The forum rules say anyone under 5 posts can't post a link, period.
...
Ooh, hello, Mr. "Upload Attachment" button!

No guarantees that this is accurate, due to the constantly-changing pages and different interpretations of what the "first link" is.

Edit: Here's the input file if anyone wants to expand it:
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Philosophy->Reason->Rationality->Philosophy
Recording Industry Association of America->Trust (monopoly)>Monopoly>Economics>Social sciences
Encyclopedia>Reference work>Compendium>Knowledge>Fact>Information
Python (programming language)->Interpreter (computing)->Computer science
Cheese>Food>Plant>Life>Biota (ecology)>Organism>Biology>Natural science>Science>Latin
Synchronous motor>AC motor>Electric motor>Electric potential energy>Potential energy>Physics>Natural science
Family Guy: Live in Vegas>Soundtrack>Film>Recording>Process>Milk>Mammary gland>Organ (anatomy)>Biology
John Ockendon>University of Oxford>Oxford>Monarchy of the United Kingdom>Constitutional monarchy>Government>Social sciences
Computer software -> Computer programs -> Instruction set -> Computer architecture -> Computer science -> Information -> Sequence -> Mathematics -> Quantity -> Property (philosophy) -> Modern philosophy -> Philosophy
The Big Bang Theory -> sitcom -> genre -> literature -> fiction -> narrative -> Latin -> Italic languages -> Indo-European languages -> language family -> language -> communication -> meaning (philosophy of language) -> Aristotle -> Greeks -> nation -> sovereign state -> state (polity) -> social sciences -> umbrella term -> subset -> mathematics -> quantity -> property (philosophy) -> modern philosophy -> philosophy
EU Auto MyCar -> Giorgetto Guigiaro -> Supercar -> Marketing -> Customer relationship management -> Customer -> Product (business) -> Economy -> Economic system -> Production, costs, and pricing -> Microeconomics -> Economics -> Social sciences -> Umbrella term -> Subset -> Mathematics -> Quantity -> Property (philosophy) -> Modern philosophy -> Philosophy
Sindh > Sindhi_language > Urdu > Register_(sociolinguistics) > Linguistics > Human > Taxonomy > Ancient_Greek > Language_family > Language > Communication > Meaning_(philosophy_of_language) > Aristotle > Greeks > Greek_language > Indo-European_languages > Language_family
Comics>Graphics>Visual system>Central nervous system>Nervous system>Biological system>Biology
Philosophical zombie>Zombie>Hypnosis>Hypnotherapy>Therapy>Medical diagnosis>Disease>Abnormality (behavior)>Abnormal psychology>Psychology>Science
Attachments
wp-graph.png
Last edited by arotenbe on Wed May 25, 2011 8:15 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

beeblebear
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby beeblebear » Wed May 25, 2011 8:12 am UTC

I got a dead end when I used orgasm as my first term.
orgasm
human sexual response cycle
sexual stimulation
stimulation (stimulus)
muscles
contactile
muscle fibre - which leads to non-existent skeletal muscle article.

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Maurog
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby Maurog » Wed May 25, 2011 8:13 am UTC

I think we can safely assume that any Wikipedia article not degrading into a loop or ending in a stub will eventually lead you to Philosophy. Oh look, behind you, a distraction! /runs
Slay the living! Raise the dead! Paint the sky in crimson red!

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mister k
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby mister k » Wed May 25, 2011 8:30 am UTC

Schadenfreude wrote:
soytsauce wrote:
jodokast34 wrote:It's not true. Check out the infinite loop between "Puppet" and "Puppeteer", one that I found on my second random article search. Did Randall not check or is it a meta-joke?



I fixed it.


Damnit, it's pointless edits like this that are bad for wikipedia's credibility. Please stop. Wikipedia is not TV tropes. You're just making random edits so it'll comply with a throwaway joke from a friggin' comic.

Why.


Because its funny?

Are there any routes that don't go through mathematics, by the way? As it seems to be a rather essential terminal.
Elvish Pillager wrote:you're basically a daytime-miller: you always come up as guilty to scumdar.

ed-the-jester
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby ed-the-jester » Wed May 25, 2011 8:32 am UTC

suweid wrote:Blew my extended mind right off! It's true! I tested on three articles!


Phah!You did NOT test it on the article on 'xkcd' though! It reaches an infinite loop on 'Greek' :D

hancock.steven
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby hancock.steven » Wed May 25, 2011 8:39 am UTC

I started with "paper" (the first thing i saw on my desk.) It got close, with "Aristotle" on the 5th click, diverged off into a maths loop.

Alovnek
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Alovnek » Wed May 25, 2011 8:43 am UTC

Well the next game is Obviously trying to find which article is furthest away from philosophy (but still ends there so no loop).

Also I like the one starting at World of Warcraft

  1. World of Warcraft
  2. Massively multiplayer online role-playing game
  3. Role-playing video game
  4. Video game genres
  5. Video game
  6. Electronic game
  7. Game
  8. Play (activity)
  9. Ethology
  10. Zoology
  11. Trema (diacritic)
  12. Vowel
  13. Phonetics
  14. Linguistics
  15. Human
  16. Taxonomy
  17. Science
  18. Knowledge
  19. Fact
  20. Information
  21. Sequence
  22. Mathematics
  23. Quantity
  24. Property (philosophy)
  25. Modern philosophy
  26. Philosophy

Definatly not the longest one but it's a nice one. I like the link from "Zoology" to "Trema (diacritic)" because of a different possible spelling. (no it's not between parentheses or in italic but in Bold :p)


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