0918: "Google+"

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby BioTurboNick » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:43 am UTC

Diadem wrote:it keeps bothering me with stuff that is completely uninteresting. Just because I added 4000 people to my friends list whom I've never even met or heard about


You're doing it wrong.

I don't care that it was for some super-fun game. It's your own fault that you told Facebook that you are friends with 4000 people. Facebook was never intended for that.

Facebook friend lists give some of the same control as circles do, if in a more convoluted interface. I really don't see the great draw. Besides, I'm not a fan of all information on the internet going through one company.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Eebster the Great » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:53 am UTC

TheChewanater wrote:Just a few hours ago, while browsing /., I was thinking it's the same thing. "Google+? Um... it seems like Facebook. But it isn't! So... it's not evil, I guess? Cool!"

I'm not really sure how Google is any less evil than Facebook, to be honest.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby AvatarIII » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:00 am UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
TheChewanater wrote:Just a few hours ago, while browsing /., I was thinking it's the same thing. "Google+? Um... it seems like Facebook. But it isn't! So... it's not evil, I guess? Cool!"

I'm not really sure how Google is any less evil than Facebook, to be honest.


because Google's motto is "don't be evil" and Facebook's isn't?

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby muhia » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:19 am UTC

rofl and to think i just sent a request to join...on this very tab...right before i entered xkcd.com in the address bar...*enters the uncanny valley*

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Aelfyre » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:35 am UTC

I would love to give it a shot if some kind soul could PM me an invite :)
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby edgyeel » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:09 am UTC

Diadem wrote:How is google worse? I know some people complain about google's privacy policies, but I've never seen any good arguments for complaints. Sure they make the occasional mistake, but they always quickly own up to it, and take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again in the future. That's more than most companies. Yeah, they want to know a lot about you, obviously, that's how they make their profit. But I've never seen any reason to believe they use this data for evil purposes.


See, you nailed it right there; it very much depends on your definition of “evil”.

For instance, it can be argued that advertising, especially of the targeted variety, is in itself evil, as it constitutes manipulation. (The whole purpose of advertising is to generate transactions that would not otherwise take place, and psychological properties of humans are being exploited in a manipulative manner towards this purpose.) I’m always surprised that this conclusion is made by virtually nobody nowadays.

It can also be argued that the accumulation of large amounts of private data is harmful, even if the data is not being collected for malevolent purposes, as the mere presence of the data opens up the possibility of abuse.

These two points may not suffice to convince you to not hand your social graph over to Google, but I think they do illustrate that efforts need to be made to provide Google-y/Facebook-y tools without requiring the central data-kraken instance.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby paenian » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:52 am UTC

Any chance one of you blessed ones could drop me an invite? I'm intensely curious.

Also, I'd give blood to get into google music... preferably before the RIAA shuts it down.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby tnvlsrule » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:04 pm UTC

The only thing that's prevented me from making an account on Facebook so far has been because it is Facebook. Maybe I'll give this Google+ thing a whirl. The comic is truth.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby intruder313 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:41 pm UTC

Out of the frying pan and into the fire.....

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby endolith » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:43 pm UTC

I never wanted to join Facebook. My family pressured me into it. But now *everything* is done via Facebook, invitations to real life parties, etc., and because my family is all on there, I can't be myself in front of others, so I've effectively fallen off the radar of many people. Myspace is pretty awful, but at least I could be myself there without certain people seeing what I write or post. Yes, there's probably a way to hide certain things from certain people, but it's needlessly complex and Facebook has made it abundantly clear that they are hostile to the very concept of privacy, and are likely to retroactively make things public that I previously made private. Myspace killed Friendster, Facebook killed Myspace. I can't wait for something to kill Facebook.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Dauthi » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:23 pm UTC

endolith wrote:Yes, there's probably a way to hide certain things from certain people, but it's needlessly complex

While I would agree that it could be easier, it's really not that difficult. Basically you want to go into your friends list and tag everyone in however many categories you think necessary. Then you can go into Privacy Settings and change your posting defaults based on the categories instead of by individual, and for each post you make, you can change the settings of who sees it.

So it could be easier, but it's kind of no different than setting up Google mail labels after you've had the account for awhile. There's some annoying upfront work, but after that you just tag and filter as new friends/posts come along. It is kind of a pain in the ass, but it allows me to be social with the 20-30% of my friends who I actually want to communicate with, while making family politics relatively drama-free and maintaining a facsimile of friendliness with people I might see at my high school reunion.

endolith wrote:Facebook has made it abundantly clear that they are hostile to the very concept of privacy, and are likely to retroactively make things public that I previously made private.

Yep. And every time they change their layout, it becomes even more difficult to find the fucking settings to change all this crap.

And that's why I'm interested in Google+. Regardless of the privacy concerns and the "don't be evil" thing, my impression of the companies is that Facebook is the skeezy asshole in nice clothes who hangs out with my friends, while Google is my eccentric friend who is a little too interested in get-rich schemes. I don't necessarily trust Google to look out for my best interests, but I still trust it more than Facebook, who's made it clear that they simply don't care at all. I'd rather be collateral damage than an acceptable loss.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby KT421 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:40 pm UTC

I spent about a half an hour yesterday trying to articulate my interest in Google+, despite my passionate hatred for Facebook. This comic pretty much sums it up.

Anyone got an invite? I promise to come back and share.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby steuben » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:04 pm UTC

Alt text: "On one hand, you'll never be able to convince your parents to switch. On the other hand, you'll never be able to convince your parents to switch!"

okay... but what is the gripping hand?

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby rpgamer » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:31 pm UTC

Shiyiya wrote:
rpgamer wrote:
Eutychus wrote:Who cares about Google+, won't somebody please find a way to get rid of the black line that's appeared at the top of Google?

I'd rather end the damned auto-complete-search they no longer give the option of turning off. :|

Do you mean the dropdown suggestions box, or Google Instant? Because you can turn off Instant. I don't use it.

Hah. I hadn't checked the settings in a while. For a time, they had it as default, and there wasn't a setting to disable it, that I recall.
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby rpgamer » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:39 pm UTC

Dauthi wrote:
endolith wrote:Yes, there's probably a way to hide certain things from certain people, but it's needlessly complex

While I would agree that it could be easier, it's really not that difficult. Basically you want to go into your friends list and tag everyone in however many categories you think necessary. Then you can go into Privacy Settings and change your posting defaults based on the categories instead of by individual, and for each post you make, you can change the settings of who sees it.

There is one problem with this, and it's that it doesn't control what you do on anyone else's profile. So if your family starts picking up the friends you have, they can start picking up on some of that hidden stuff.

At least, I think that's how it's been working. I haven't had a chance to thoroughly test it, but it does seem to have plenty of holes.
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Monika » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:44 pm UTC

I have problems to decide if the black line is or is not worse than when they did the obnoxious fade-in for those options at the top left for several months. I think it's about even.
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby bantler » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:01 pm UTC

Don’t forget that Myspace was the biggest thing in the world…4 years ago.
RIP Facebook

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby AvatarIII » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:06 pm UTC

bantler wrote:Don’t forget that Myspace was the biggest thing in the world…4 years ago.
RIP Facebook


more like 8 :|

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Capt. Obvious » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:15 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
Ideas sleep furiously. wrote:I hate facebook on principle.

But google? They're even worse with people's private information.

Someone make an alternative! A better one!

How is google worse?

Because Google already knows a lot about me. Information has exponential (well, okay, logistic, but I try to keep myself in the exponential emulating section of the logistic curve) value. Therefore, I gain a huge amount of privacy by keeping Google knowing somethings, Facebook knowing others, Ebay others, Amazon yet others, etc.

Diadem wrote:The only social networking site that is superior in every possible way that I know is fetlife. But that's clearly a niche market. But their site runs so smoothly and is so well designed it's just awesome.

"I swear, I'm just on this site to make a Facebook killer and make billions" is the new "I'm just reading it for the articles".

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby AFW » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:18 pm UTC

It's always interesting to see how these "killers" pan out.

"[Phone X] will be the iPhone killer!"
"[Game Y] will be the WoW killer!"

I imagine Google+ will follow the same course as the games. Some people will go to it, while others remain faithful. Then there's that awkward time where people are divided and it turns into "No, YOU come over HERE. It's way better!". We'll see which comes out on top. Google+ sounds neat though.

Related to the comic, the alt-text was definitely the winner here. :)

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby A_of_s_t » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:34 pm UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:I got an invite. When I went to use it, I got an error about full servers or something like that. I guess it is more popular then they'd hoped.
I wonder what this means for Orkut and Buzz. Hopefully they'll retire Buzz with what little dignity it has left and merge this with Orkut if it is a success. It'd be silly to have two social networks in your portfolio, even if one is only used in Brazil and India.

God I hope they get rid of Buzz... And I'm willing to bet this will get merged with Orkut eventually.
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Xeio » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:37 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
bantler wrote:Don’t forget that Myspace was the biggest thing in the world…4 years ago.
RIP Facebook
more like 8 :|
I'll admit, trends isn't an entirely accurate measure of popularity, but... what?

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby BioTurboNick » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:38 pm UTC

It seems to me that any real Facebook replacement will have to completely subsume it. All of your data in Facebook will have to flow in and out of the other social network seamlessly in order to work.

Actually, I'd like to see a standardized social web, identity and privacy model that would allow anyone on any network to interlink with anyone on any other network. Different networks could specialize the presentation of the content and add unique capabilities on top of it, but the underlying framework they are operating on would allow robust interoperability. Social should be the next web standard.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby A_of_s_t » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:47 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
bantler wrote:Don’t forget that Myspace was the biggest thing in the world…4 years ago.
RIP Facebook
more like 8 :|
I'll admit, trends isn't an entirely accurate measure of popularity, but... what?


Even better:

Facebook vs Myspace: http://www.google.com/trends?q=myspace%2C+facebook&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
Google vs Yahoo vs Bing: http://www.google.com/trends?q=google%2C+yahoo%2Cbing&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
Last edited by A_of_s_t on Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:49 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Tophe » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:48 pm UTC

Facebook is blocked at my job (like it is for most people), but if G+ takes off I could see our IT dept blocking the whole Google domain too and that would suck.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby MathUhhhSaurus » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:49 pm UTC

anyone take the tour? I took so many pictures of the dog! :D and...I put the skiers in the Grandma and Grandpa circle! haha

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby A_of_s_t » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:54 pm UTC

MathUhhhSaurus wrote: I took so many pictures of the dog! :D

I didn't even know that was on there until you mentioned it.... damn you.
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:55 pm UTC

BioTurboNick wrote:
Diadem wrote:it keeps bothering me with stuff that is completely uninteresting. Just because I added 4000 people to my friends list whom I've never even met or heard about


You're doing it wrong.

I don't care that it was for some super-fun game. It's your own fault that you told Facebook that you are friends with 4000 people. Facebook was never intended for that.

I was kind of joking with that line. I did add 4000 people to my friends list for a facebook game, but I (of course) did that on a seperate account I made only for that purpose. The account has absolutely no information about me, and since I stopped playing that game stopped using it alltogether.

Still, the fact remains that 'friends' includes everybody from close personal friends to family to people you only know online to friends of friends you've met a few times. Not everybody on my friends list is equally interesting, and I don't want to receive updates from all of them. Or at the very least not about everything. Nor do I want to share my shit with everybody on my friends list. There's plenty of stuff I would only tell close friends. Or for example things about local parties and activities, that are absolutely uninteresting for anybody living not in the same neighbourhood as me.
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Роберт » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:55 pm UTC

Tophe wrote:Facebook is blocked at my job (like it is for most people), but if G+ takes off I could see our IT dept blocking the whole Google domain too and that would suck.

I take it you have an incredibly incompetent IT department?
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby thevicente » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:37 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
Tophe wrote:Facebook is blocked at my job (like it is for most people), but if G+ takes off I could see our IT dept blocking the whole Google domain too and that would suck.

I take it you have an incredibly incompetent IT department?

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:39 pm UTC

MathUhhhSaurus wrote:anyone take the tour? I took so many pictures of the dog! :D and...I put the skiers in the Grandma and Grandpa circle! haha

Hehe I just took it. The huddle demo is brilliant, no matter what you type it always types the same thing, including lines as 'dishwasher ham sandwich'. lol.
(Hey, since when is this cheese no longer burning me?)
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby Cosmologicon » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:51 pm UTC

Pretty sure the first invite window is closed, so I don't think asking for an invite is going to do much good. Just FYI.

Ah great.... it's good to see how many people are searching for "Google" on Google. (It makes sense sometimes, but not nearly as often as that graph shows.)

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby jonadab » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:54 pm UTC

I hate being forced into things just because of my geographic position. This is the internets, location is irrelevant here.


Indeed. YouTube does the same thing with its video adverts. I'll be sitting around watching Japanese content (wacky commercials, or old episodes of anpanman, or some such jazz), and suddenly I'll be watching an advertisement for John Kasich. It's quite jarring. If I were interested in content related to my immediate geographical vicinity, I'd be watching TV or reading a newspaper.

It almost makes me want to exchange tunneling services with some like-minded nerd on the other side of the globe, but that would be horrible for latency, not to mention what it would do to bandwidth (especially with consumer-grade connections these days not being symmetrical).

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby delro92 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:39 pm UTC

I just read something that really makes me want to try Google+ and I quote:
"On Facebook I overshare. On Twitter, I undershare. If Google hits that spot in the middle, we can revolutionize social interaction." — Shimrit Ben-Yair,

I hope google hits that spot Shimrit is talking about.
Anyway, could someone send an invite please? :)

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby aterimperator » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:54 pm UTC

Most "anonymous" data is not anonymous.

Not all advertising is manipulation, at least not "manipulation" in an evil sense. "Hey I have this great product that will solve this problem you might not even realize you have" is something that I'd love to hear, if true.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby vodka.cobra » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:01 pm UTC

edgyeel wrote:For instance, it can be argued that advertising, especially of the targeted variety, is in itself evil, as it constitutes manipulation. (The whole purpose of advertising is to generate transactions that would not otherwise take place, and psychological properties of humans are being exploited in a manipulative manner towards this purpose.) I’m always surprised that this conclusion is made by virtually nobody nowadays.

You're describing marketing, not advertising.

Advertising is the disbursement of information for public consumption. Marketing is the manipulation of consumers to favor your product.
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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:17 pm UTC

Eutychus wrote:Who cares about Google+, won't somebody please find a way to get rid of the black line that's appeared at the top of Google?

And the little red bar that hovers over the current category is giving me a creepy Cylon Eye effect.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby aterimperator » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:06 pm UTC

aterimperator wrote:Most "anonymous" data is not anonymous.

Oops, forgot to link to eff's panopticlick https://panopticlick.eff.org/

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby TheChewanater » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:07 pm UTC


Better yet.

http://trends.google.com/websites?q=goo ... l&date=all

Apparently Google knows how many people in what regions visit Yahoo! and Bing... but not their own website?
ImageImage
http://internetometer.com/give/4279
No one can agree how to count how many types of people there are. You could ask two people and get 10 different answers.

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Re: 0918: "Google+"

Postby AvatarIII » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:43 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
bantler wrote:Don’t forget that Myspace was the biggest thing in the world…4 years ago.
RIP Facebook
more like 8 :|
I'll admit, trends isn't an entirely accurate measure of popularity, but... what?

I admit I was exaggerating, but wow I was way ahead of the trend on that one, I gave up on myspace in 05 or so. I just found it so messy and annoying,


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