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Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:20 pm UTC
by MikeDamrat
I think we're already beyond the point where the verb "to google" refers specifically to the Google search engine.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:31 pm UTC
by AvatarIII
MikeDamrat wrote:I think we're already beyond the point where the verb "to google" refers specifically to the Google search engine.


really? what other uses are there for it? if someone said to me that they will google something i can only assume they mean they are going to search for it online via google

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:33 pm UTC
by Cygnwulf
RevengencerAlf wrote:Now if "google" starts getting used as a verb to generically refer to all search related activity, then we'll have a problem.


Too late, it already is.
(and I left the terminating preposition just for the English nuts here)

I think I'll have to side with the thought that, if the two parties involved in the conversation can understand one another, it counts. It may not count as part of the core language of a group, you might need to classify it as a Jargon or something along those lines.

Lukc wrote:It sounds like the misspelling of an exotic far-eastern ruined temple in a Conan novel.

Hmm, that makes me think of other meanings for the names of places and people in Conan books. Cimmeria, (tee hee hee),

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:34 pm UTC
by A_of_s_t
Kirby wrote:
LSN wrote:On an unrelated note: where is the forum link on the main site page?


I was wondering about that. Are these forums being disowned by Randall? Are we that much of a disappointment? :(

I think this is completely, and entirely your fault.

Just kidding.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:37 pm UTC
by MikeDamrat
AvatarIII wrote:
MikeDamrat wrote:I think we're already beyond the point where the verb "to google" refers specifically to the Google search engine.


really? what other uses are there for it? if someone said to me that they will google something i can only assume they mean they are going to search for it online via google


Maybe it's not the norm (in which case, never mind), but I understand it simply to mean searching online for something. I've even seen the term used in reference to Bing, although there's a distinct possibility said person was using the term ironically.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:42 pm UTC
by neoliminal
MikeDamrat wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
MikeDamrat wrote:I think we're already beyond the point where the verb "to google" refers specifically to the Google search engine.


really? what other uses are there for it? if someone said to me that they will google something i can only assume they mean they are going to search for it online via google


Maybe it's not the norm (in which case, never mind), but I understand it simply to mean searching online for something. I've even seen the term used in reference to Bing, although there's a distinct possibility said person was using the term ironically.


When someone says "go google it", it doesn't mean they want you to specifically use google. It means they want you to search the internet.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:50 pm UTC
by AvatarIII
neoliminal wrote:
MikeDamrat wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
MikeDamrat wrote:I think we're already beyond the point where the verb "to google" refers specifically to the Google search engine.


really? what other uses are there for it? if someone said to me that they will google something i can only assume they mean they are going to search for it online via google


Maybe it's not the norm (in which case, never mind), but I understand it simply to mean searching online for something. I've even seen the term used in reference to Bing, although there's a distinct possibility said person was using the term ironically.


When someone says "go google it", it doesn't mean they want you to specifically use google. It means they want you to search the internet.


maybe it's because if someone told me to google something i'd at least start with google, but if someone just told me to search online, i'd still start with google, hell, if i want to search wikipedia i use google,

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:04 pm UTC
by cphite
neoliminal wrote:
MikeDamrat wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
MikeDamrat wrote:I think we're already beyond the point where the verb "to google" refers specifically to the Google search engine.


really? what other uses are there for it? if someone said to me that they will google something i can only assume they mean they are going to search for it online via google


Maybe it's not the norm (in which case, never mind), but I understand it simply to mean searching online for something. I've even seen the term used in reference to Bing, although there's a distinct possibility said person was using the term ironically.


When someone says "go google it", it doesn't mean they want you to specifically use google. It means they want you to search the internet.


Wait... you can search the internet without Google??

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:35 pm UTC
by pucksr
Why all the hate for the word "irregardless"?
I constantly have people telling me it isn't a real word. The two arguments are that it is redundant(irregardless=regardless) or that the prefix ir- negates the following term, so by definition of ir- it means the opposite of regardless.

Neither of these make sense.
no one complains that inflammable and flammable exist. They both mean the EXACT same thing. Also, in- typically is a negating prefix.
So, if we are going to strike irregardless from the dictionary then we need to strike inflammable as well.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:35 pm UTC
by A_of_s_t
cphite wrote:Wait... you can search the internet without Google??

Don't listen to them, that's just an old wives' tale.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:50 pm UTC
by Waladil
imantodes wrote:"Folksy"? That also goes in the list of words that should be banned. Its only redeeming feature is that it is a reliable marker indicating people one should avoid. People like Sarah Palin. If you didn't know she was an idiot, that she is "folksy" would be sufficient to enlighten you on this point.

Actually, I enjoy speaking that way because I spent eighteen years growing up in a small town in Colorado, where speech like that is incredibly common, although to a lesser extent than I use it today; I subsequently moved from Colorado to Long Island, right next to The City, which I had to learn meant NYC. I use folksy terms because it's part of my personal heritage. It's my culture, in many ways. Plus, I'd bet most people on this forum like Firefly... And Malcolm's folk way of talking.

I'm noticing that people on this thread who claim that certain words are worse love to dance around on their points; one minute they claim
CorruptUser wrote:Irregardless isn't a real word.

and then say
RevengencerAlf wrote:Just because something is recognized by some alleged authority as a word doesn't mean it isn't god damned awful, and just because it's not doesn't mean it has no legitimacy or use.

Seems to me that y'all are just looking for excuses to discriminate against those words they think are "bad" but don't want to take a personal stand; they hide behind claims that other people are the ones responsible; either the people who make dictionaries or "THE MAN" trying to dictate what are good new words or not. I mean, I agree that a lot of those words are pretty frickin' stupid. But where do you get off telling other people they can't use them? If someone wants to use a specific set of slang terms, nonstandard language, and correctly understood misused words, then that's pretty much their choice. If you want to make a
imantodes wrote:list of words that should be banned

then who would have the power to dictate what words are or are not allowed? Maybe he, she or they (that's unfortunately the correct construction) will decide that the word "dictate" sounds too much like "dick" and this forum post will be a misdemeanor. Or maybe, we should just accept that people are going to talk the way they want and a bunch of Internet Etymology Nazis (Near cousins of the more common Grammar Nazis) really can't do jack shit about it.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:15 pm UTC
by SteevyT
Can someone please translate? I know it is a train wreck of the English language, but I would like to know what he is attempting to say.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:44 pm UTC
by rebmcr
CorruptUser wrote:I wonder what she was typing?


"<a href="http://forums.xkcd.com">Forums</a>"

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:56 pm UTC
by GeorgeH
Obligatory Stephen Fry video comment.

I use and like “guesstimate” . “Estimate” often has too much implied accuracy; a mechanic’s “estimate” of your transmission repair needs to be fairly accurate. “Guess” often doesn’t imply enough accuracy, so mashing the two words together makes some sense when intending to convey a middling level of accuracy. Could I use “rough estimate”, “educated guess” or something else along those lines? Sure, but “guesstimate” sounds fun to me so I use it in casual contexts. I also like “automagically” for similar reasons.

If that makes me an ignorant peasant soling the hallowed tower that is the mongrel language we call English, then so be it. Irregardless of any annoyance, I enjoy my ignorant verbiage and my frenemies can shove the holy tower up their sandy va-jay-jay. :)

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:02 pm UTC
by NotAllThere
AvatarIII wrote:
ExplodingHat wrote:Is it bad that I find "irregardless" to be least abominable of the comic's list? (Also, interestingly, "irregardless" apparently does not warrant a red squiggly underline in my browser... :shock: )


i actually find irregardless to be the only word that annoys me in the comic, because all the other words are slang, (apart from moist and taint...
Yes, t'is.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:06 pm UTC
by Steve the Pocket
SteevyT wrote:Can someone please translate? I know it is a train wreck of the English language, but I would like to know what he is attempting to say.

It's just nonsense. I'd be pretty impressed if someone managed to form a genuinely coherent sentence out of just annoying slang, but Randall did not.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:09 pm UTC
by eohano
pucksr wrote:Why all the hate for the word "irregardless"?
I constantly have people telling me it isn't a real word. The two arguments are that it is redundant(irregardless=regardless) or that the prefix ir- negates the following term, so by definition of ir- it means the opposite of regardless.

Neither of these make sense.
no one complains that inflammable and flammable exist. They both mean the EXACT same thing. Also, in- typically is a negating prefix.
So, if we are going to strike irregardless from the dictionary then we need to strike inflammable as well.



'Inflame' is a real word. Thus, 'inflammable' = 'inflame + -able', NOT 'in- +flame + -able.' Flammable was made up later, for good reason, because the people who decide these things decided that "inflammable" could be a safety hazard if people were to not understand it and regard it as the improper, 'not flammable' form. The 'in-' in 'inflammable' is not a prefix.
'Irregard' is not a word. Thus, it would be correct to interpret 'irregardless' as 'ir- + regard + -less', which would mean the opposite.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:23 pm UTC
by silvermace
i just spent about 5 min trying to find the first word in the alt text: vebiage.

It didn't even show up in urban dictionary! then i noticed that the OP spelled it wrong XD

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:33 pm UTC
by doggitydogs
rebmcr wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:I wonder what she was typing?


"<a href="http://forums.xkcd.com">Forums</a>"


Immediately after reading this, I looked for a "thumbs-up" button (NOT a +1 button, as I still haven't figured out what exactly that does...I know it has to do with Google, but not with Google+, as I saw them before G+ was announced). Not because I use Facebook, which I don't. Just because I often comment on blog posts and such, where they have thumbs-up buttons. I will click said thumbs-up buttons when I strongly agree with something, or when it makes me LOL in a good way.

When I discovered that there was no thumbs-up button, I looked for the reply button to give you a verbal thumbs-up. Then And then Then At that point, I realized that there was no reply button, as I had been logged out of the fora on the first of the month.

I then went to log in, after which it booted me back to the homepage, so that I had to come find your post again.

So, yes, a thumbs-up to you.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:40 pm UTC
by Millumi
This is the third comic in a row with a man, a woman, and someone sitting at a computer... maybe it's a short story in which the girl found google+ while looking at autobiographies, and the guy found people who talk like that on google+.
XD

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:49 pm UTC
by Waladil
GeorgeH wrote:Obligatory Stephen Fry video comment.

I use and like “guesstimate” . “Estimate” often has too much implied accuracy; a mechanic’s “estimate” of your transmission repair needs to be fairly accurate. “Guess” often doesn’t imply enough accuracy, so mashing the two words together makes some sense when intending to convey a middling level of accuracy. Could I use “rough estimate”, “educated guess” or something else along those lines? Sure, but “guesstimate” sounds fun to me so I use it in casual contexts. I also like “automagically” for similar reasons.

If that makes me an ignorant peasant soling the hallowed tower that is the mongrel language we call English, then so be it. Irregardless of any annoyance, I enjoy my ignorant verbiage and my frenemies can shove the holy tower up their sandy va-jay-jay. :)


Thanks for that video. I enjoyed it both in the quality of his points, and just listening to Stephen Fry talk. I'll have to use it in later debates.

Also, epic final clause. I call it "epic" because it's sheer length of description and overuse of metaphor hearkens back to some of the old epic poems, who seem to believe that a sentence would not do when a stanza or twelve could be worked in. (Take it as a compliment. I just wanted to use the term "epic" in a way that should have been highly incorrect, then redeem it by giving reason)

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:50 pm UTC
by Ridcully
SteevyT wrote:Can someone please translate? I know it is a train wreck of the English language, but I would like to know what he is attempting to say.


Red is generally grammar/ spelling errors, blue is tense problems and confusing structure. They tend to mingle. A lot.

(Indention) I actually enjoy speaking this way. I spent eighteen years (unnecessary ‘growing up’) in a small town in Colorado, where speech like mine is incredibly common (explain). Although to a lesser extent than I use it today (unnecessary). I subsequently (to what?) moved from Colorado to Long Island, right next to The City, which I had to learn meant NYC (irrelevant, improper use of comma, confusing). I use folksy terms because it's part of my personal heritage. It's my culture (no comma) in many ways. Plus, I'd bet most people on this forum like Firefly... And Malcolm's folk way (needs to be a adjective) of talking. (improper use of ellipses, improper capitalization, does not make sense.)

(Indention) I'm noticing (unclear tense shift) that people on this thread who claim that certain words are worse (compared to?) love to dance around on their points; (improper semi colon) (possession cluster fuck). One minute they claim, (whatever the forums do ect)

And then (those same users?) say,

(Indention) (It seems to me that y'all (do I need to say anything?) are just looking for excuses to discriminate against those words they (needs to be ‘you’) think are "bad", but don't want to take a personal stand. (Use period) They hide behind claims that other people are the ones responsible; (stop using semi colons!) either the people who make dictionaries or "THE MAN" (no capitals needed) trying to dictate what are good new words and what are not (confusing). I mean, (no reason for this to be here) I agree that a lot of those words (be specific) are pretty frickin (not a word) stupid. But where do you get off telling other people they can't use them (confusing tense shift)? If someone wants to use a specific set of slang terms, nonstandard language, and correctly understood, (comma here) misused (use a different word, ‘misused’ conveys faultiness) words, then that's pretty much their (unclear tense) choice. If you want to make a, “List of words that should be banned” then (don’t need this) who would have the power to dictate (already used once in this paragraph, use something else) what words are or are not allowed? Maybe he, she or they (that's unfortunately the correct construction (unnecessary, incorrect, confusing)) will decide that the word "dictate" sounds too much like "dick" and this forum post will be a misdemeanor. Or maybe, we should just accept that people are going to talk the way they want and a bunch of Internet Etymology (no capitals) Nazis (near cousins of the more common grammar Nazis) really can't do jack shit about it.

Hope that helped out :)

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:56 pm UTC
by harperska
GeorgeH wrote:I use and like “guesstimate” . “Estimate” often has too much implied accuracy; a mechanic’s “estimate” of your transmission repair needs to be fairly accurate. “Guess” often doesn’t imply enough accuracy, so mashing the two words together makes some sense when intending to convey a middling level of accuracy. Could I use “rough estimate”, “educated guess” or something else along those lines? Sure, but “guesstimate” sounds fun to me so I use it in casual contexts. I also like “automagically” for similar reasons.

If that makes me an ignorant peasant soling the hallowed tower that is the mongrel language we call English, then so be it. Irregardless of any annoyance, I enjoy my ignorant verbiage and my frenemies can shove the holy tower up their sandy va-jay-jay. :)


+1 to this. I came here to post exactly this. "Guesstimate" means about halfway between an estimate and a guess, where there isn't enough information to provide a proper estimate, but you wish to provide something with more substance than a simple guess.

Language purists will insist that there is no need to use the neologism when an existing construct can convey the same meaning. But requiring a person to mash together multiple existing words rather than using a single new word results in the absurdity that is the modern French language. And additionally, having a plethora of synonyms makes English much more capable of providing nuances and shades of meaning without depending as much on context and intuitive understanding between the speakers. For example, while Guesstimate and Educated Guess both fall somewhere between a proper calculated estimate and a complete guess, Educated Guess suggests an acknowledgement of a lack of information, yet an attempt to extrapolate the information that does exist into a close approximation of a proper estimate. A Guesstimate, on the other hand, suggests a more unscientific approach, where the estimator attempts to make up for the lack of information by using intuition and gut feeling. That exact meaning can not be properly conveyed without use of the word Guesstimate, unless care is taken to imply it in the surrounding context.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:03 pm UTC
by philsov
Can someone please translate? I know it is a train wreck of the English language, but I would like to know what he is attempting to say.


It needs some stuff to follow it or precede it to make complete sense, but roughly translated:

"I think this guy I know and both like/hate had so much (weird) foreplay with this female that she's pregnant."

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:31 pm UTC
by Waladil
Hey Ridcully.
Couple of things.
One, I am pretty sure that Steevy was referring to the guy in the comic, as opposed to me. A few other users posted to that effect, you may notice. I'd also like to point out a few errors in your own description of my errors.

For example, I was using Internet Etymology Nazi and Grammar Nazi as proper nouns, therefore they need capitals. Next, they're semicolons, not semi colons. A semi colon would be half a colon, and has no place in English, unless that's a new name for periods. The "growing up" was very much necessarily, considering the first eighteen years of life is far more important to later life than any other given eighteen years. Oh, and you misquoted me at least three times. I suppose you did that in order to create more errors so you could subsequently critique them? And my final point in this abridged list of all your mistakes, I used frickin' because I haven't taken the time to review this forum's terms of service and I doubt they'd appreciate me using the language that I'd normally use to describe fools like you.

Oh, and if you're going to introduce a section where you describe the grammatical and usage errors of another forumgoer, I'd advise you not to have one line of text with two sentence fragments and no proper subject. I understand what you mean, naturally, but it's just not grammatically correct! (For those of you who are just a little slow on the uptake, I'm utilizing sarcasm to be condescending. Since more than a few of you seem to be missing vital points, I thought it best to be absolutely clear. I'm insulting Ridcully.) Of course, that's before one deals with the concept that this is an internet forum, not an essay I'd give to a writing professor. Those I take a moment to proofread and make them nice and pretty.

Steevy, if you were referring to my post (which I doubt but just in case) then I'll give a tl;dr version.
PEOPLE ARE BEING STUPID NAZIS ON THE INTERNET Oh me yarm!!!!

P.S. This insulting people thing is FUN! Why'd I spend all those years being polite to all the world's rejects? I mean, why else would they spend time on a forum meticulously dissecting writing just to feel right? Reminds me of some people I used to know... the people I'm glad I get to say I used to know them as opposed to still know them.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:01 pm UTC
by Draco18s
AvatarIII wrote:i actually find irregardless to be the only word that annoys me in the comic, because all the other words are slang, (apart from moist and taint, which i have no problems with anyway,)


"Taint" is actually slang, BTW. It started as an abbreviation as "it ain't" and is slang for the perineum.
Taint meaning "a trace of a bad or undesirable quality or substance" is a different word entirely.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:18 pm UTC
by perakojot
for all of those arguing against this new evil thing "irregardless", let me just say:

inflammable means flammable!?!


(yeah, i know the latin reasoning behind it, but to any non-native english speaker, or anyone that didn't learn latin in school, it's just bonkers ;)

and about guesstimate, i always thought it means something similar to "an educated guess", just shorter. i actually quite like the word..

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:26 pm UTC
by Waladil
Draco18s wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:i actually find irregardless to be the only word that annoys me in the comic, because all the other words are slang, (apart from moist and taint, which i have no problems with anyway,)


"Taint" is actually slang, BTW. It started as an abbreviation as "it ain't" and is slang for the perineum.
Taint meaning "a trace of a bad or undesirable quality or substance" is a different word entirely.

Not to be argumentative (Most of my other posts here HAVE been to be argumentative) but I thought that taint as slang for genitalia was a euphemism for "that filth down there." The first time I encountered it was Stephen Colbert describing his "taint" to an ACORN worker. And Stephen (in character) would consider his genitals to be filth. Found the link: The pertinent bit starts at a bit before 4:30 and is about a minute long, but the rest is, well, Stephen.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:31 pm UTC
by perakojot
MikeDamrat wrote:Maybe it's not the norm (in which case, never mind), but I understand it simply to mean searching online for something. I've even seen the term used in reference to Bing, although there's a distinct possibility said person was using the term ironically.


i have even heard it used by some microsoft people, on a recent (couple of months ago) Hanselminutes podcast, Scott Hanselman (MSFT dev evangelist or some such, seems like a nice guy -- ie not a shill) was talking with another microsoft employee, about some new Bing features of all things, and in the middle of a discussion (so it didn't seem planed or on purpose to be ironic), he say something pretty close to:

So you can basically just google for that on Bing, and see all the flight information right there on the results page


you can also see Steve Ballmer trying to make "Bing" a verb, but i don't thing it's going to stick..

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:39 pm UTC
by jltc
"utilize"

There is NEVER a situation in which "use" wouldn't work just as well.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:17 pm UTC
by wisnij
Gedaechtnis wrote:I only have problems with words that are wrong, like irregardless. Moist? So what? If something is moist, it's moist!

Apparently a substantial number of people have strong feelings about it.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:21 pm UTC
by delfts
Where did the back of the girl's seat go in the first frame? :|

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:32 pm UTC
by Sioni
1) I had to look up the slang meanings of several of these. As far as I've ever known "moist" refers to a form of damp (specific degree and kind arguable). A "taint" is a flaw, difference in shade, or other form of imperfection, and "panties" refers to certain women's underwear (groin area). (I've read the explanations and looked up the words I don't know, but I still don't understand what the comic means.)
I've never heard of "yiff".
"Verbiage" has been a well-established and useful part of English for hundreds of years last I checked.
The others I've heard of, but I've never been a fan of slang.
2) I am firmly of the opinion that "irregardless" is terrible. Ehsanit is right when he points out that in modern usage it is synonymous with "regardless". People's unwillingness to speak properly isn't an excuse for improper speech.
3) Too many undeserving collections of letters are somehow admitted to respected dictionaries of American English. Whoever's in charge needs to be smacked upside the head for being unintelligent and for lacking discernment.
4) Arguing about proper English is not pointless. This is especially so if you've established which dialect it is about which you're going to argue. Evolution of language doesn't justify improper usage or creation of terms that are unnecessary and/or improper.
5) Culture may dictate meanings and evolution of language, but that doesn't mean that everything people start to say should be considered part of the language. Sometimes people are wrong.
6) Zephalis makes several good points on the first page in his response to zemerick.
7) Wide usage and understanding doesn't (or shouldn't) make something a word. I don't know what the full and exact criteria are, but people's stupidity and laziness shouldn't be an excuse to put something in the dictionary. Terms like "jargon" and "slang" are capable of describing the type of terms to which the last sentence was referring.
8.) "Unthaw"? Seriously? Who says that?
9) I also take issue with calling "Person X" an idiot or unintelligent or anything else without any evidence or explanation. This is especially true in speaking about politcians because their every word is so often recorded and scrutinized harder than the speech of people not in the public eye.
10) It was well said (by imantodes) that the presence of new American English terms and an environment that fosters their creation with unnerving rapidity do not, together or separately, make every new word equal and/or equally valid as compared to every other.
11) Points to "...m..." for the use of "lexiconographic".
12) As far as semantics and/or syntax a "sentence" constructed as "Just because...doesn't mean..." is a "sentence" without a subject. Read it carefully. There's nothing there to do the action. There's no subject of the sentence.
13) "Google" to me implies use of the search engine at www.google.com. It may be used in other ways, but saying "I'm going to go google it" (or something similar) and then going to Bing doesn't make any sense. The fact that some MS workers use it strangely doesn't make the improper usage correct.
14) Cygnwulf, you said "Too late, it already is. (and I left the terminating preposition just for the English nuts here)". I'll point out that "is" is a verb rather than a preposition. Ending a sentence with it can make sense (if it doesn't, as in your case, leave the meaning unclear).
15) Pucksr, I was confused by "inflammable" and "flammable" for a long time just as you are. I think the distinction comes because the words are derived and/or divided in different ways. "Inflammable" would best be understood as "inflame-able", that is "possible to set afire". "Flammable" is best read as "flame-able", i.e. able to be "flamed" in the archaic sense of "to be burned with a flame". Eohano explains this earlier, and he makes some good points.
16) Waladil, as you said, there are those defending standard spellings and usage and there are those arguing against it. Personally, I think that it's futile to tell a person that he can't use a certain word, but that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to think of that person as uneducated, unintelligent, or lazy. Also, you lose for bringing up a certain German political party of the past.
17) Those arguing that neologisms offer nuances, shades of meaning, and connotation not otherwise found in the English language should learn Ancient Greek. I've heard rumors that it allowed a speaker to be very specific about connotation.
18) I don't think anyone's arguing that English isn't an awful language with too many exceptions and poor constructions (in a lot of cases). The poor quality of modern American English isn't an excuse to speak it poorly and make it worse.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:41 pm UTC
by sherlip
Ehsanit wrote:
Azkyroth wrote:And, "irregardless" strikes me as a word that could be useful - for emphatically correcting someone who claims something doesn't matter: "well, regardless of that..." "no, irregardless."


I agree. Unfortunately that isn't what it's taken to mean, being illogically considered synonymous with regardless.
I wonder how much stubbornness it would take to get it accepted correctly.


"With regard to" is accepted as the correct substitute.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:47 pm UTC
by wisnij
Sioni wrote:3) Too many undeserving collections of letters are somehow admitted to respected dictionaries of American English. Whoever's in charge needs to be smacked upside the head for being unintelligent and for lacking discernment.
[...]
7) Wide usage and understanding doesn't (or shouldn't) make something a word. I don't know what the full and exact criteria are, but people's stupidity and laziness shouldn't be an excuse to put something in the dictionary. Terms like "jargon" and "slang" are capable of describing the type of terms to which the last sentence was referring.

Dictionaries record usage, not correctness (whatever that means). Typically they will list whether a given entry is 'nonstandard' or otherwise unusual. There is no official regulating body for the English language like some other languages have, such as French or Icelandic. "Informal" or "nonstandard" do not necessarily mean "incorrect", only that there are certain contexts in which a word may be more or less appropriate.

More generally, there's no such thing as something "being a word" or not, unless you're using that as a shorthand for "a word I approve of". I wish people wouldn't say irregardless either, but they do anyway, so tough for us.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:13 pm UTC
by lewax00
zephalis wrote:I'm not sure where you get your information about "grammar, spelling, pronunciation, letters..." but most of those have not noticeably changed over the last 200-300 years
I disagree, into the 1800s "f" and "s" were fairly interchangeable in words, for example, "Auguft" was a common spelling of "August".

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:15 pm UTC
by ExplodingHat
Sioni wrote:12) As far as semantics and/or syntax a "sentence" constructed as "Just because...doesn't mean..." is a "sentence" without a subject. Read it carefully. There's nothing there to do the action. There's no subject of the sentence.
I would argue that "Just because X.." is a noun phrase, inasmuch as the overall form of the sentence is "A does not imply B." The correctness of that phrase, however, is another debate entirely.

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:18 pm UTC
by Blaisorblade
I thought this would be a forum of nerds. Then I find again here the argument between descriptivists and prescriptivists - weren't nerds prescriptivists, or are there nerds which aren't language nerds? I'm not an expert of either English or of Usage Wars, but I found the essay on the argument from David Foster Wallace's (http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/DFW_present_tense.html) fascinating - the two essential arguments being:
  • that yuo cna wreit vrey bdayl adn poeple wlli stlli undrestnad yuo, btu wthi mreo effrto (-> you can write very badly and people will still understand you, but with more effort). You could have read the 1st sentence without the correct version, so communication would have taken place, but it's still a bad idea to write like that. Writing correct English is in the interest of efficient communication, which is only polite to the reader - and even more subtle errors complicate understanding.
  • the way you speak speaks about you, like the way you behave; therefore it's in your interest to speak correctly. I for myself tend to ignore most badly spelled stuff on the Internet, because that's statistically stuff I don't care about. Use of jargon is different though.

Personally, I am a PhD student of computer science, and getting accepted in the best conferences is also a matter of explaining your thought in the most efficient way possible; that includes attention to correctness and clarity of language. Therefore my job makes me tend even more to prescriptivism.

zephalis wrote:If your looking for clear and concise, learn lojban...

Zephalis, please don't make such mistakes when defending correct usage. I do them sometimes myself, even in my native language, but I strive to correct them immediately - because one learns at school that they are far more frequent for the stupid than for the intelligent (assuming equal education). When I do them, I attribute them either to the aging of my brain or to lack of sleep.

pucksr wrote:Why all the hate for the word "irregardless"?
I constantly have people telling me it isn't a real word. The two arguments are that it is redundant(irregardless=regardless) or that the prefix ir- negates the following term, so by definition of ir- it means the opposite of regardless.

Neither of these make sense.
no one complains that inflammable and flammable exist. They both mean the EXACT same thing. Also, in- typically is a negating prefix.
So, if we are going to strike irregardless from the dictionary then we need to strike inflammable as well.


That's incorrect. Within inflammable, in- means just into, which is perfectly valid for inflammable [1] and would make no sense for irregardless. So irregardless is just stupid.

It makes far more sense to say that some double negations simply indicate emphasis; in fact, in Italian and French double negation is typically required, so that we say all the time the equivalent of "I don't like no action movies" (as in the famous "rien ne va plus").

[1] inflammable comes from inflame, and New Oxford American Dictionary gives:
inflame: ORIGIN Middle English enflaume, inflaume, from Old French enflammer, from Latin inflammare, from in- ‘into’ + flamma ‘flame.’

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:51 pm UTC
by Randomizer
Steve the Pocket wrote:
SteevyT wrote:Can someone please translate? I know it is a train wreck of the English language, but I would like to know what he is attempting to say.

It's just nonsense. I'd be pretty impressed if someone managed to form a genuinely coherent sentence out of just annoying slang, but Randall did not.

What? Seriously? That sentence made perfect sense.

Sure, "I'd say my friend fucked so hard that her wet cunt got her underwear pregnant!" is a bit of hyperbole, but it's completely sensical. While it's true that you can't get underwear pregnant, it's just like with yo' momma jokes. We both know yo' momma doesn't really have her own zip code, but we say she does as a way of describing how fat she is. Sure it would be simpler and more accurate to simply say how many pounds she weighs, but she's broken every scale she's ever been on. :P

Re: 0919: "Tween Bromance"

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:12 pm UTC
by Scott Auld
MonkeyBoy wrote:The good news: in another 30 years, no one will be saying "irregardless" anymore. The bad news: the reason is because by then, common-use English will have deteriorated to the point where most people don't use or understand words with more than three syllables.


I agri w/u irgrdlss.