0970: "The Important Field"

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suso
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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby suso » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:03 am UTC

There is this restaurant where I live called The Trojan Horse. They have a physical card that you can fill out to join their club and one of the fields on the card is for your e-mail address. Directly below that field they have another one labeled "E-mail address again". Not sure if they are trying to be funny or someone just missed the point on that one.
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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby kasmeneo » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:18 am UTC

suso wrote:There is this restaurant where I live called The Trojan Horse. They have a physical card that you can fill out to join their club and one of the fields on the card is for your e-mail address. Directly below that field they have another one labeled "E-mail address again". Not sure if they are trying to be funny or someone just missed the point on that one.


That seems to make much more sense to me than on online forms.... On a card, you're actually forced to write your email address twice,
while on online forms, you just type it once and the copy-paste it. At least that's what I do all the time because those double email fields are super annoying.

I agree that a correct email address is crucial to an online service of any kind. But instead of nagging people with redundant form fields,
it would be much more effective to send a mail with an activation link to the provided email address and not activate the account until
that link is clicked.

If the supplied address was correct, you receive the mail within seconds, and the address is truly verified.
It's cooler up here.

Ronsonic
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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby Ronsonic » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:21 am UTC

Okay, the repeat email addy thing is a PITA and yeah, I look twice and then copy/paste.

But the one that pisses me off is the enter credit card number field. How in the hell is it that it cannot parse spaces! The spaces are there on the card - Yes, I can dig through and check myself on a 16 digit number but it would be a lot easier to just type it in with dashes or spaces to duplicate the format that I'm copying from. Humans remember things in the format they see use them. It's like those automated voices that read a phone number that don't format it in the pattern we remember phone numbers; three digits, three digits and then four digits.

And as long as I'm ranting, how about those phone number fields, why should they be picky about what non-numeric characters are used.

These are computers we're using and it's the 21st fooking Century - figuring out that some people use a slash or a dash to set the area code off from the number instead of parens should be trivial.

There, done for now.

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Karilyn
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Re: 970: The Important Field

Postby Karilyn » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:29 am UTC

Plasma Mongoose wrote:
chridd wrote:
mr-mitch wrote:If it was meant to be cheque, then the alt text is hilarious.
"Check" is the American spelling.
In Australia at least, a cheque is something you can cash or bounce, while check is something you do with a box in a form.
In American English at least, a check something you cash or bounce, and a check is something you do with a box in a form. They are homonyms!

Venetian Road wrote:I think the issue with "British pronunciations" is that brits tend to speak at a quicker pace, so less noticeable syllables get more or less glossed-over. In any dialect, the "a" in "dictionary" is the least emphasized syllable in the word.
Doesn't seem like it in Southern US English. dick-shun-air-rE. We get a clean four syllables, and double pronounce the "r". But double-pronouncing "r"s seems to be pretty common in Southern US English.

kasmeneo wrote:On online forms, you just type it once and the copy-paste it. At least that's what I do all the time because those double email fields are super annoying.
Ronsonic wrote:Okay, the repeat email addy thing is a PITA and yeah, I look twice and then copy/paste.
You're like the 10th person to say that. Seriously, does nobody in here type moderately fast? My email address is 21 character's long and I can type it, tab, and type it again, faster than I can type it, highlight it with my mouse, Ctrl+C, click the other box, Ctrl+P, then click the next box.

You do know you can tab between fields right? At 110 words per minute, with WPM being calculated at 5 characters per word, it takes me approximately 2.2(90) seconds, not counting the tab between fields, to type my email address a second time. Why in the world would I waste time trying to copy+paste it? Maybe I'm just the only person here who has worked in data entry before.
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smakibbfb
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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby smakibbfb » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:03 pm UTC

"by check"... Pah!

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby ctsketch » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:08 pm UTC

Hmm When I lost my wallet earlier this year it took me five minutes and one form of ID at the state police to get a copy of my License to Carry Firearms....but it took me 2 forms of ID and a piece of mail to get my driver's license...

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby AvatarIII » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:14 pm UTC

ctsketch wrote:Hmm When I lost my wallet earlier this year it took me five minutes and one form of ID at the state police to get a copy of my License to Carry Firearms....but it took me 2 forms of ID and a piece of mail to get my driver's license...


arguably, when used in a certain way a car is just as deadly as a gun, possibly even more so simply because it is going to be in use more.

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Re: 970: The Important Field

Postby Kuebel » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:19 pm UTC

Karilyn wrote:You're like the 10th person to say that. Seriously, does nobody in here type moderately fast? My email address is 21 character's long and I can type it, tab, and type it again, faster than I can type it, highlight it with my mouse, Ctrl+C, click the other box, Ctrl+P, then click the next box.
You do know you can tab between fields right?

You know you can press CTRL-A to select the whole mail after you typed it, then CTRL-C, Tab, CTRL-V? No need to touch the mouse.

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Re: 970: The Important Field

Postby silverkitty » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:25 pm UTC

Karilyn wrote:You're like the 10th person to say that. Seriously, does nobody in here type moderately fast? My email address is 21 character's long and I can type it, tab, and type it again, faster than I can type it, highlight it with my mouse, Ctrl+C, click the other box, Ctrl+P, then click the next box.

You do know you can tab between fields right? At 110 words per minute, with WPM being calculated at 5 characters per word, it takes me approximately 2.2(90) seconds, not counting the tab between fields, to type my email address a second time. Why in the world would I waste time trying to copy+paste it? Maybe I'm just the only person here who has worked in data entry before.


You're using a mouse for copy paste? I enter those fields with the following keystrokes (note I hold down the control key for the 2 controls characters one after the other): silverkitty23@yahoo.com^A^Ctab^Vtab

ooo, ninja'd by Kuebel. aie.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby jpk » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:26 pm UTC

Dave wrote:Were the forum asking you to supply an incredibly important piece of information, and only checking that once but your email twice, then you'd have a point (and you could argue that maybe username is important enough to check twice).


No, still wouldn't have a point. If you have a good email address, you have everything you need to complete the transaction, eventually. No need to enter every piece of data multiple times. The only thing you have to verify is the email address, once you have that any other data entry errors are temporary.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby ctsketch » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:30 pm UTC

jpk wrote:
Dave wrote:Were the forum asking you to supply an incredibly important piece of information, and only checking that once but your email twice, then you'd have a point (and you could argue that maybe username is important enough to check twice).


No, still wouldn't have a point. If you have a good email address, you have everything you need to complete the transaction, eventually. No need to enter every piece of data multiple times. The only thing you have to verify is the email address, once you have that any other data entry errors are temporary.


Actually the email IS one of the most important fields...because if you F'up any of the other fields at the very least they will be able to email you and say...change your password...edit your account...or fix the other fields if you enter everything else wrong including your email you have no way to get your account info and you have to make another.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby jonadab » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:39 pm UTC

"Check" is the correct spelling. Brits by their own admission don't use checks (because their banking system is all wack and charges them money to write or cash one, or something like that), so they don't get to vote on how it's spelled.

The field you're supposed to validate by having them type it twice is the password, and it's that way for a reason: because you can't see what you're typing when you're typing it (a security measure intended to prevent someone from looking over your shoulder and reading what you typed).

If it's necessary to verify the email address, the correct way to do that is to send a message containing a confirmation code to the address and require the user to get the confirmation code from the message and enter it on your form in order to complete the transaction. Any lesser measure can and will be worked around by users who figure they don't really want to get email from you every hour for the rest of their lives. (Even with this measure, they'll still use throwaway accounts, but at least you verified you can send them a message once.)

Expanding on that, the ideal way to verify missile coordinates would be to have the user physically go to those coordinates and send a verification message using a device that reports its own location.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby jpk » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:51 pm UTC

ctsketch wrote:
jpk wrote:
Dave wrote:Were the forum asking you to supply an incredibly important piece of information, and only checking that once but your email twice, then you'd have a point (and you could argue that maybe username is important enough to check twice).


No, still wouldn't have a point. If you have a good email address, you have everything you need to complete the transaction, eventually. No need to enter every piece of data multiple times. The only thing you have to verify is the email address, once you have that any other data entry errors are temporary.


Actually the email IS one of the most important fields...because if you F'up any of the other fields at the very least they will be able to email you and say...change your password...edit your account...or fix the other fields if you enter everything else wrong including your email you have no way to get your account info and you have to make another.


Dude, you just got ninja'd by the post you quoted. Congratulations.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby jpk » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:10 pm UTC

jonadab wrote:
The field you're supposed to validate by having them type it twice is the password, and it's that way for a reason: because you can't see what you're typing when you're typing it (a security measure intended to prevent someone from looking over your shoulder and reading what you typed).


Yes, entering a password twice on setup is pretty standard. However, if you confirm the email address, a password screwup is trivial, and you're confirming the email address anyway, so it's a skippable step if you establish that your contact information is correct.

If it's necessary to verify the email address, the correct way to do that is to send a message containing a confirmation code to the address and require the user to get the confirmation code from the message and enter it on your form in order to complete the transaction. Any lesser measure can and will be worked around by users who figure they don't really want to get email from you every hour for the rest of their lives. (Even with this measure, they'll still use throwaway accounts, but at least you verified you can send them a message once.)


Simpler and quicker to just have them type it twice. If they mistype their address the same way twice, this fails, but that's pretty uncommon. The only way it happens is if they think they're clever and copy-paste the first entry into the second field....
If they're setting up an account at something like this site, you might want to send a confirmation email, but still it's better to do double-entry of their address. Think about the error case:
1)User sees post and wants to respond
2) user hits respond and is given a chance to write their thing
3) user hits submit and we find they're not a user yet, so give them a chance to join
4) user fills out a screenful of info, comes up with a screen name, all the rest of it
-- error here, they enter "bob@gmali.com" --
5) They click through, read the message that says "you'll get a confirmation email, and they go on with their lives.
6) At some future time, they wonder where the email is, but they've already moved away from your page.

How do they recover to the error point? They have to find the post they responded to originally, rewrite their brilliant slashing diatribe, go through the signup again, and type more carefully this time. This loses users or customers or whatever it is you call the people on the other end of your servers. Better to just have them enter the email address twice.

You might still send a confirm to establish that they control that email account, but that's after you already know that the address you're sending to is almost certainly the address they meant to enter.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby Dave » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:33 pm UTC

jpk wrote:
Dave wrote:Were the forum asking you to supply an incredibly important piece of information, and only checking that once but your email twice, then you'd have a point (and you could argue that maybe username is important enough to check twice).


No, still wouldn't have a point. If you have a good email address, you have everything you need to complete the transaction, eventually. No need to enter every piece of data multiple times. The only thing you have to verify is the email address, once you have that any other data entry errors are temporary.


I think you've missed my point, I'm afraid!

I was simply pointing out that those who state that this forum falls foul of the comic are not getting the point of the comic, which I think we both agree on based on your response that for a forum, if you know your email address you can pretty much change everything else later (perhaps with the exception of username - see my earlier post!)

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby rcox1 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:39 pm UTC

Obviously the only way to validate an email to have the user reply to an email. Typing an email address in twice and having the computer compare them thus gives the user feedback if they made a typo. Of course it does nothing if they intentionally or accidentally type a wrong address, which is why in any critical situation in which an email address is important, an account where the email has been verified is necessary. Therefore I would argue that typing an email in twice is a waste of time. If the email is important, then it should be verified with something like a reply. If the email is not important, then it will be bounced and can be removed automatically.

A more egregious example of these random checks that leads to great inefficiency is the MS Windows XP method of connecting to networks. It makes the user type the password in twice. Now, like the email, this allows the user to check for typos and potentially prevents frustration. But it also leads to false security. It does not solve the problem that on many machines designed for MS Windows it is unclear if the caps lock is on(all HP laptops have a little light randomly located on the case, not on the key). It does not solve the problem of the user misunderstanding what they wrote as they password. A much better solution for passwords is a box that optionally lets the password be displayed in clear text if the user is having trouble connecting to the network. Even the likes of Bruce Schneier has said that obscuring a password is not always the best thing to do. Look at how password entry has evolved. When I first worked on computer, there was no onscreen feedback for a password as such feedback would tell onlookers how long your password was. All keys, backspace, delete, were allowed in a password. Now such things are considered too error prone.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby engr » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:47 pm UTC

ManaUser wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:The primary language difference I agree with Brits about is "aluminium", as all other recent elements end in "ium". No one says "Helum", "Sodum", "Uranum", "Lithum", and so on.

And platinium?

...and my favourite, Lanthanium.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Gilbert K. Chesterton

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby hdhale » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:00 pm UTC

SonicIce wrote:So I'm taking it Randall is anti-gun?


Given the behavior of some of his characters (who routinely get away with murder), I'm going to say 'no'.

However, it is interesting to note that cheque fraud happens far more often than crimes involving firearms (something on a ratio of thousands to one), so it's a wonder anyone actually still takes cheques, let alone they insist upon two forms of ID to present one for payment, as opposed to one ID to purchase a firearm (oh and...here in the U.S. that Federal background check form I have to fill out when I purchase one...which I don't mind doing, honestly).

So lighten up, it's Friday. :)

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby redbird » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:12 pm UTC

The mouseover is right--it's about who has the incentive to care about what. For someone who is selling firearms, the legal proof of ID from the purchaser is something that the feds may ask for later. So the store's incentive is to prove that they got the one required ID. But if a check bounces, the store is out a significant amount of money, and showing the feds or the bank that they looked at a driver's license isn't going to get them their money, or their gun back. With a credit card, the gun shop can collect from the credit card company even if the buyer doesn't pay the bill.

Bruce Schneier has written a bunch about this: you get better security on bank accounts if the bank is liable for losses from fraud and identity theft than if they can legally say "it's a shame that someone else cleaned out your account, but it's your loss, not ours" regardless of whether they made any effort to protect your money or check the information. Because in the latter case, the organization that could take precautions--the bank--has no incentive to do so, and is less likely to spend the money. (And you, the customer, have no way to force the bank to (for example) not change the address on your account based on a phone call.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby sheon » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:15 pm UTC

Dave wrote:
sheon wrote:
Dr.Buck wrote:And to continue the irony a little further - this very forum is no different! As someone who signed up a matter of days ago, I can tell you that even here, the place that mocks said practice in the form of cartoon, uses said practice itself. :lol:

Well, unless my memory really is that bad, anyway....

You're right, I just had to enter my email adress twice :lol:


You're missing the point. It isn't the practice of needing to enter your email address twice that is being mocked. It is simply that of all the information the dude is having to type in, it is the email address that is deemed important enough to double check rather than the missile target. In his scenario, that doesn't make sense - they should, if anything, be checking both things twice.

Simply needing to enter an email address twice isn't the bit he is poking fun at. It is a perfectly legitimate thing to do to ensure your activation email and password reset emails go to the right place, to ensure your account is secure - for a forum, at least. It also asks you to enter your password twice (IIRC).

Were the forum asking you to supply an incredibly important piece of information, and only checking that once but your email twice, then you'd have a point (and you could argue that maybe username is important enough to check twice).

I understood this, don't worry, I was just confirming to Dr.Buck that the email adress was double-checked here. But I agree that it's a good thing; I always type it twice, never copy-paste it, just in case I did a mistake while typing it the first time (sometimes I simply don't see an obvious mistake).

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby NiteClerk » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:40 pm UTC

Great strip. I had to read it a couple of times before I got it. For some reason this reminds me of when President Reagan had Libya bombed in 1986. We accidentally hit the French embassy. One of the reasons given was that we didn't know that address was for the French Embassy. Over the next few days numerous countries faxed their embassy locations to the CIA and Pentagon. My favorite theory is that since France denied the U.S. permission to fly over French airspace, the pilots were tired after their detour. Oops.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby dexeron » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:40 pm UTC

jpk wrote:1)User sees post and wants to respond
2) user hits respond and is given a chance to write their thing
3) user hits submit and we find they're not a user yet, so give them a chance to join
4) user fills out a screenful of info, comes up with a screen name, all the rest of it
-- error here, they enter "bob@gmali.com" --
5) They click through, read the message that says "you'll get a confirmation email, and they go on with their lives.
6) At some future time, they wonder where the email is, but they've already moved away from your page.


I've never seen a forum that lets you do that. Most (maybe all?) make you create an account before you can even begin to respond (sometimes before you can even view messages!) So no message will have to be retyped: if they've already typed up a response, I'm guessing they did it in notepad or wordpad or something anticipating copying and pasting it. The couple extra seconds it takes to bring up a new tab or window to check their email for an activation link shouldn't discourage most users.

Now, forums that take FOREVER to send out activation emails are a different story, or course.
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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby Oktalist » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:41 pm UTC

Wooloomooloo wrote:I use Firefox's top-right search window quite often to type my passwords then copy-paste them into a field for this very reason.


Is that the same Firefox search bar that sends, in plaintext, what you type, as you type it, to {insert search provider here}, for predictive query completion?
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Re: 970: The Important Field

Postby comsciguy82 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:50 pm UTC

Karilyn wrote:
Plasma Mongoose wrote:
chridd wrote:
mr-mitch wrote:If it was meant to be cheque, then the alt text is hilarious.
"Check" is the American spelling.
In Australia at least, a cheque is something you can cash or bounce, while check is something you do with a box in a form.
In American English at least, a check something you cash or bounce, and a check is something you do with a box in a form. They are homonyms!

Venetian Road wrote:I think the issue with "British pronunciations" is that brits tend to speak at a quicker pace, so less noticeable syllables get more or less glossed-over. In any dialect, the "a" in "dictionary" is the least emphasized syllable in the word.
Doesn't seem like it in Southern US English. dick-shun-air-rE. We get a clean four syllables, and double pronounce the "r". But double-pronouncing "r"s seems to be pretty common in Southern US English.

kasmeneo wrote:On online forms, you just type it once and the copy-paste it. At least that's what I do all the time because those double email fields are super annoying.
Ronsonic wrote:Okay, the repeat email addy thing is a PITA and yeah, I look twice and then copy/paste.
You're like the 10th person to say that. Seriously, does nobody in here type moderately fast? My email address is 21 character's long and I can type it, tab, and type it again, faster than I can type it, highlight it with my mouse, Ctrl+C, click the other box, Ctrl+P, then click the next box.

You do know you can tab between fields right? At 110 words per minute, with WPM being calculated at 5 characters per word, it takes me approximately 2.2(90) seconds, not counting the tab between fields, to type my email address a second time. Why in the world would I waste time trying to copy+paste it? Maybe I'm just the only person here who has worked in data entry before.


You can also hold shift and press <Home> from the end of the field to highlight the entire field, then press Ctrl-C to copy, hit <Tab>, Ctrl-V to paste (Ctrl-P will not paste btw) and that's fewer keystrokes, but of course you knew that since you are so keyboard savvy. Or if you are really clever, Ctrl-A will always highlight the entire element, but sometimes will select the entire page and not just the field you want depending on what control has focus.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby Tophe » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:52 pm UTC

engr wrote:
ManaUser wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:The primary language difference I agree with Brits about is "aluminium", as all other recent elements end in "ium". No one says "Helum", "Sodum", "Uranum", "Lithum", and so on.

And platinium?

...and my favourite, Lanthanium.


Don't forget Molybdenium and Tantalium!

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby karrde » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:53 pm UTC

Wes Janson wrote:
SonicIce wrote:So I'm taking it Randall is anti-gun?


As someone who sells guns for a living, I can state with 100% certainty that most places in the US just require an up-to-date valid driver's license to buy a gun. Payment via check depends on the store, but in my experience the'yre usually going to want to see the exact same driver's license anyways, so it's pretty much a given that if you can buy it, you can pay for it. Can't buy it, don't need to worry about payment anyhow.


I recently went through a firearms purchase, and I only needed one form of ID. (I paid by Visa, and the guy said "I've already seen your ID and copied all info off of it onto two different forms, so you don't need to show it to me again." Even though the back of the card had the words "Ask For ID" written in magic marker.)

But I live in the Great Lakes State, which only requires one form of ID (whatever is required for passing Federal-level NICS check) for legal purchase. Some states (IL, MA, NJ among them) require a special State ID to purchase/own a firearm. In these places, two forms of ID would be required for step 1 (verify legality of transaction) and one form needed for step 2 (payment).

Per the comic: I think the usual 'enter your email twice' is for the same reason as 'enter your password twice'. It's to make sure the visitor typed his email correctly.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby Simstud » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:00 pm UTC

Is there really a place where 1 form of ID is required to buy a gun, and 2 to pay by check? Where? References, please, Randell.

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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby Fire Brns » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:07 pm UTC

Oktalist wrote:
Wooloomooloo wrote:I use Firefox's top-right search window quite often to type my passwords then copy-paste them into a field for this very reason.

Is that the same Firefox search bar that sends, in plaintext, what you type, as you type it, to {insert search provider here}, for predictive query completion?

Don't hit enter...

Dictionary. never heard it said dictionree although dyslexia could account for mistakes like this if the person learned the word by reading.
Check spelled check. Only people I know who use "que" variation are pretentious northerners who have Canada frenching everything up.
On side note I know an idiot who calls kielbasa "kee-ball-see".

TheEngineer wrote:"But I don't know the target's email address ... Oh, silly me! ... my email address and the target's coordinaaaaaaaaaagh!"

ROTFL, better than alt text.
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Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby Jonathanvt » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:35 pm UTC

madjo wrote:I'd laugh at this were it not for the fact that I get (genuine) email not intended for me (not spam), on a daily basis.

"Hello Mayris, here is that report you requested" (my name isn't Mayris)
"Hi Michael, I hope you are doing well, here are our holiday photos." (my name also isn't Michael)
(these are probably not the faults of Mayris and Michael, but still, a lot of people don't really look at the email address they are sending their stuff to)

And sometimes there are dolts, who sign me up for their stupid newsletters. No I don't want Bakery's monthly.
And no I'm not pregnant, so you can keep your baby stuff out of my inbox. (the person, to whom this pregnancy email was intended for, had caused more inbox rubbish (name and home address matched with hers often). So when she had used my email address to sign up for a pregnancy related website, I logged in, saw her phone number on there and texted her to please look more closely at the address when she fills it in. Never got a response, but her flooding of my inbox did seem to deminish a bit. Probably scared her to death with the text too.

Did the same to the guy who ordered a pizza online. I texted him "Bon appetit, oh and be more careful next time when entering an email address. {emailaddress} isn't yours, it's mine."

A lot of the times, I get the home addresses, the phone numbers, bank account numbers, once even a social security number, from these idiots that can't remember their own email address. If I had bad intent, I could impersonate quite a number of different people, just by using the data gathered from these emails that I didn't even request.

Right now I'm collecting those emails, and looking whether there's a book in it or not. But I won't use it for bad stuff, identity theft is a horrible crime, I wish it to no one, and I won't ever do anything of the sort. But I could.

That. Most services don't/didn't validate email addresses, and additionally I can't easily disable it from their emails. My address has even been signed up for a service I wanted to use myself later. It potentially involves money (apparently not a good enough reason to validate addresses, or have customer support able to do something about it, though!), so I felt bad enough about hijacking it back that I used an alias. I should've killed it from the start.

Harry Voyager
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:55 am UTC

Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby Harry Voyager » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:43 pm UTC

Wes Janson wrote:
SonicIce wrote:So I'm taking it Randall is anti-gun?


I'd be curious to know, but there's nothing in the alt-text that clearly indicates it..he's just pointing out a (possibly true) observation about gun sales.

As someone who sells guns for a living, I can state with 100% certainty that most places in the US just require an up-to-date valid driver's license to buy a gun. Payment via check depends on the store, but in my experience the'yre usually going to want to see the exact same driver's license anyways, so it's pretty much a given that if you can buy it, you can pay for it. Can't buy it, don't need to worry about payment anyhow.


You still have to pass the federal check, (unless the BATF or other Federal agency over-rules it, but then you're in a different sort of situation.)

Interestingly enough, in Texas, you also have to have no outstanding debts to the state. It's not actually specific to firearms, rather they have a blanket policy of barring you from any state permits until you've paid all outstanding fines, but yes, you can get barred from gun purchases for failing to return a library book.

tjunction
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:43 am UTC

Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby tjunction » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:51 pm UTC

jonadab wrote:"Check" is the correct spelling. Brits by their own admission don't use checks (because their banking system is all wack and charges them money to write or cash one, or something like that), so they don't get to vote on how it's spelled.


*ahem*

We don't use cheques much anymore because they're a bit outdated, and our banking system has moved with the times, you know? We have debit and credit cards with integrated circuit chips and direct debit payments and ATMs and free instant online bank transfers so there really aren't that many cases when you might actually want to use a paper cheque. That said, we do still have them, and some people (particularly the older generation) do use them a lot, and writing and depositing them is still completely free for personal customers (as is all our banking).

So there.

Oh, and the modern cheque is basically a British invention, so we get to choose the spelling, m'kay? :-)

HTH
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:26 pm UTC

Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby HTH » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:08 pm UTC

If you think that's crazy, I once registered a piece of software online that also had me enter my e-mail address twice. However, since the address contained the word "table" in the domain name, their filters for HTML injection stripped it out... from both fields. They matched, but they were wrong. Further, the next character after "table" was a hyphen, which is an illegal character with which to start (or end) a domain name, so I couldn't use e-mail to resolve the problem.

Unfortunately for me, I contacted them and informed them of the error. E-mails relating to the account weren't going to be deliverable. So they changed it to match the correct address. Only I realized too late that even their log in form also strips "table", so now I can get e-mails related to the account, but I can never log in to it.

Indie
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:18 am UTC

Re: 970: The Important Field

Postby Indie » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:09 pm UTC

chridd wrote:
mr-mitch wrote:If it was meant to be cheque, then the alt text is hilarious.
"Check" is the American spelling.


"Check" is basically the phonetic spelling. Doesn't take a genius to see that the "American" spelling is the spelling you get if you ask someone who doesn't know how to spell "cheque" to write it down :roll:

Completely understandable but ideally when the correct spelling is pointed out the response is "Oh, ok, I didn't know, I'll try and remember it for next time." not "Oh yeah? well f*ck you and your spelling, this is how I spell it."

Dave
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:26 pm UTC
Location: London. Londinium.

Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby Dave » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:15 pm UTC

tjunction wrote:
jonadab wrote:"Check" is the correct spelling. Brits by their own admission don't use checks (because their banking system is all wack and charges them money to write or cash one, or something like that), so they don't get to vote on how it's spelled.


That said, we do still have them, and some people (particularly the older generation) do use them a lot, and writing and depositing them is still completely free for personal customers (as is all our banking).


Or if it's for a deposit or some such thing where the cheque is not actually cashed but is held onto in case it is needed.

They still have their uses but yeah, I very, very rarely need to get my chequebook out these days.

Oktalist
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:13 pm UTC

Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby Oktalist » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:29 pm UTC

Fire Brns wrote:
Oktalist wrote:
Wooloomooloo wrote:I use Firefox's top-right search window quite often to type my passwords then copy-paste them into a field for this very reason.

Is that the same Firefox search bar that sends, in plaintext, what you type, as you type it, to {insert search provider here}, for predictive query completion?

Don't hit enter...

Note the important part of my post, "as you type it", meaning after every keypress it goes off and asks Google for a list of suggested predictive completions of your search query. I type in "foo" (without hitting enter) and it pops up a list: food network, foot locker, food lion, foo fighters, footloose, football...

Harry Voyager wrote:You still have to pass the federal check, (unless the BATF or other Federal agency over-rules it, but then you're in a different sort of situation.)

Don't you mean federal cheque? Ba-da boom.
philip1201 wrote:Not everything which maps countable infinities onto finite areas is a Lovecraft reference.

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eHalcyon
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:35 am UTC

Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby eHalcyon » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:39 pm UTC

Fire Brns wrote:
Oktalist wrote:
Wooloomooloo wrote:I use Firefox's top-right search window quite often to type my passwords then copy-paste them into a field for this very reason.

Is that the same Firefox search bar that sends, in plaintext, what you type, as you type it, to {insert search provider here}, for predictive query completion?

Don't hit enter...


The point is that you don't have to hit enter and the information is still sent. That is how predictive query completion works.
(EDIT: ninja'd by 10 minutes, oops)


And re: check vs. cheque, don't forgot all the other English-speaking countries. America is basically the only one not using "British" spelling (although we in Canada slip often because of the malign influence from the south :wink: ).

Turing Machine
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:48 am UTC

Re: 970: The Important Field

Postby Turing Machine » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:47 pm UTC

Indie wrote:
chridd wrote:
mr-mitch wrote:If it was meant to be cheque, then the alt text is hilarious.
"Check" is the American spelling.


"Check" is basically the phonetic spelling. Doesn't take a genius to see that the "American" spelling is the spelling you get if you ask someone who doesn't know how to spell "cheque" to write it down :roll:

Completely understandable but ideally when the correct spelling is pointed out the response is "Oh, ok, I didn't know, I'll try and remember it for next time." not "Oh yeah? well f*ck you and your spelling, this is how I spell it."


WOW you are a bigot.

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ganglion
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:23 am UTC

Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby ganglion » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:22 pm UTC

In our town, most of the shops will give cashback on a card payment, as long as you sign their copy of the receipt. There is one exception, who make you sign your copy, so that you can't present it later saying you didn't get the cash. It's about who you trust. :twisted:

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BrianB
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:50 pm UTC

Re: 0970: "The Important Field"

Postby BrianB » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:26 pm UTC

ManaUser wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:The primary language difference I agree with Brits about is "aluminium", as all other recent elements end in "ium". No one says "Helum", "Sodum", "Uranum", "Lithum", and so on.

And platinium?


Lanthinum, Molybdenum, Tantalum

Netreker0
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:17 am UTC

Re: 970: The Important Field

Postby Netreker0 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:59 pm UTC

Turing Machine wrote:
Indie wrote:
chridd wrote:
mr-mitch wrote:If it was meant to be cheque, then the alt text is hilarious.
"Check" is the American spelling.


"Check" is basically the phonetic spelling. Doesn't take a genius to see that the "American" spelling is the spelling you get if you ask someone who doesn't know how to spell "cheque" to write it down :roll:

Completely understandable but ideally when the correct spelling is pointed out the response is "Oh, ok, I didn't know, I'll try and remember it for next time." not "Oh yeah? well f*ck you and your spelling, this is how I spell it."


WOW you are a bigot.


I'd say it's a bit extreme to call him a bigot, but I did find Indie's post hilarious (I don't know if the hypocritical humor was intentional though), since pointing out "'Check' is the American spelling" doesn't imply that either spelling is "wrong," it just points out that there are different acceptable spellings. In contrast, Indie's own post is much closer to "Oh yeah? well f*ck you and your spelling" since it presupposes that the American spelling is incorrect, and that we should meekly thank the British for imposing their spelling on us.

Actually, maybe bigot isn't so inappropriate after all.

By the way, Indie, if you're going to push the idea that phonetic spellings must be dumb ones, you probably shouldn't be doing that as an English speaker. You've got nothing on Korean, or Chinese.
Last edited by Netreker0 on Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:05 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.


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