0980: "Money"

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Kaijyuu » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:02 pm UTC

That's a hell of a lot of information.
The cake is a lie, but truth is in Pi.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby digitaloverride » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:03 pm UTC

This thing is definitely getting printed on the 48" plotter at work and subsequently put on the wall in my office.

One word; incredible. I thought the radiation infograph was well done, but this just completely blew my mind.

Thank you for making me believe in humankind again :)

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Flood419 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:05 pm UTC

    Dollars: It appears that most people have abused the CEO comment, so I'll leave that alone.
    Millions: I'll also leave alone the 2010 mid-term fundraising comment
    Millions: What is the "v presidential campaign fundraising" between 2008 and 2000. I think it was intended to be 2004, given the list of losers (there were no winners that election).
    Billions: high-speed rail for $9,120,000,000 is out there all by itself with no representation (hello Washington, DC?)
    Miscellaneous: Alignment problems in each area that makes some portions of text unreadable.
Another note: With all the varied shapes on the board, I couldn't help but think that a good Tetris reference was in order, if possible.

Brilliant illustration of the monetary value of things. Anytime somebody mentions money, I always reminisce about The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movement of small green pieces of paper, which was odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby myoilu » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:06 pm UTC

exxon mobil is listed three times

lots of stuff is covered by text in the millions pane

no start/ end dates for the value of a solid gold toilet and suitcase full of 100's

treasury bonds text covers the blocks

total proven oil reserves is directly over the blocks, making it virtually unreadable

trillions graph from 1920 to 2010 has no description or title

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby villadelfia » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:08 pm UTC

teelo wrote:Does a set of all sets include itsself?

Yes it does, and it does, and it does, and it does...

That set is infinite but valid.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby J L » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:08 pm UTC

Amazing, wonderful job.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Felstaff » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:09 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:Reaction of xkcd hater: "This comic is so completely worthless, it's amazing that Randall should spend so much time in it!"

See, I'm on the side that xkcd-haters are not on for this particular comic. I disagree that it's worthless. Aside from the typos, which seem to be the majority chat for the board thus far, the graph provides myriad talking points, and is completely fascinating; mind-boggling even. It's quite the information overload, but given an extended view (something that is not exactly forced upon anyone, being that it's a free webcomic that you have the right not to examine at length), it provides quite the eye-opening data avalanche regarding something we all relate to; how your money compares to other peopleses, and the world (US) at large.
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby dotancohen » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:11 pm UTC

I hate to say it, but this infograph is terrible. It _could_ be informative but it is filled with so much junk that the good parts are completely diluted. Half the information inside is beyond redundant, and removing it would make the entire graph much more accessible. If someone would take the time (maybe me, later) to take out all the filler, this could be quite an important document.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Cousj001 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:11 pm UTC

I didn't know before about Hogwarts having tuition fees as well...maybe the teachers are spending it all on Minecraft. (Yay! Finally Released!) CEO Pay? I think that's intentional. One is their 'official' pay, that they put down on tax returns, the other is bonuses, share options, skimming the top of the cake, cutting the dividend to other shareholders, etc, Maybe I shouldn't be posting this after also having just read the TvTropes article on Corrupt Corporate Executives* Interesting to note, that, apparently Gone with the Wind is the highest-grossing film of all time, adjusted for inflation (maybe I should actually see it), and that less money was spent on the 1976 presidential election on everybody than was spent on Barrack Obama in 2008. And that the size of the credit default swap market in 2005 was larger than the GDP of the EU.

*Warning! TvTropes can be highly addicting! This user will take no responsibility for time lost, manhandled or otherwise spent on that website.
Magic is real, unless declared integer.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby bakert » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:12 pm UTC

Oh, my God. Amazing.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby seutje » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:15 pm UTC

In the section on "Prizes" -> http://gyazo.com/accd63ef570a5b81dd1a457de7dbac4c
surely no movies opened in the year 193

also, in the US household income part, in the 1% section, it says "Households in this group typically earns ..." -> http://gyazo.com/624535a8de6c9e48bbb264618c8ac634
I'm not a native English speaker, but shouldn't that be "earn"?

interesting infograph!
Last edited by seutje on Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:26 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Hap » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:15 pm UTC

The Value of Statistical Life listed for the EPA ($8M+) is not the same thing as the measurement of human life. From wikipedia:
There is no standard concept for the value of a specific human life in economics. However, when looking at risk / reward trade-offs that people make with regard to their health, economists often consider the value of a statistical life (VSL). The VSL is the value that an individual places on a marginal change in their likelihood of death. Note that the VSL is very different from the value of an actual life. It is the value placed on changes in the likelihood of death, not the price someone would pay to avoid certain death.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby ajgriffy » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:19 pm UTC

Great post. Here are the typos I found, some of which have already been mentioned:

    CEO Pay - left date should be 1965 [Dollars]
    Ford Explorer gas $10 - has an extra digit [Thousands]
    Top 1% Household Income is missing an amount ($822,000 based on boxes) [Thousands]
    Text misalignment in Millions - "Millions" box covers text, and below that text is displayed over $ boxes [Millions]
    "Portion of Big Dig overruns..." caption seems to be floating [Millions]
    Millions -> Prizes -> film "The Millionaire" opened, date is incomplete [Millions]
    2010 midterm elections fundraising, Republicans should be millions not billions [Millions]
    2004 presidential campaign fundraising, caption says "v" instead of 2004 [Millions]
    $1 per US citizen should be millions not billions [Millions]
    $1 and $10 per US citizen second largest digits don't match [Millions]

OK too many typos. Someone else can find the rest for Billions/Trillions

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby athada » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:27 pm UTC

In extreme upper right, "Advanced combined cycle natural gas" price under "Cost of electricity" is wrong. Listed as $385,940,000,000, which is the cost of Solar Thermal, but has fewer billion-squares than any other source.

Either that, or it really cost the exact same as Solar Thermal doesn't have enough cubes :lol:

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby jimblandy » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:28 pm UTC

Below the "Economic Vortex" and "this process is complicated", there's an unlabeled block of millions.


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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Schadenfreude » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:31 pm UTC

Too big, unfocused and typo-ridden to really enjoy. Please tell me that the six things in the "Five things I learned" box is a joke and not a typo.
"Shake my hand. Come on, boys, won't you shake a poor sinner's hand?"

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby krkeegan » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:46 pm UTC

The comic looks cool, but sadly I am unable to load the HUGE page. It seems the server is dying under the demand. Has anyone downloaded a full offline copy who might be willing to post it to a file sharing site? It might help take off some of the load as well.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby swhiffle » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:52 pm UTC

No matter what browser I use, I just can't get "Money" to display. If only there was some technology that allowed the display/downloading of image-based data on the web. Perhaps by mapping RGB numerical values to colors in some sort of pixel-based grid. Perhaps this technology could even compress the data for easy download. Maybe we should form a Joint Photographic Experts Group and discuss this.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby jqavins » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:53 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:wow, no wonder it was late today!

now i have Pink Floyd's Money stuck in my head.

If you print the high res image on poster size paper then you can stick Money on The Wall.
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby HagarTopeka1 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:59 pm UTC

Add Buri Khalifa->Burj Khalifa
to the type list.
I think, given the scale, the typos are pretty forgivable.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby tetsujin » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:04 pm UTC

Under the "total cost of items in 'If I Had a Million Dollars'" - "art" was omitted. (And for that matter, the "not a real green dress" - which I guess would be a knock-off of a designer dress)

Garfunkel would be another n/a, but there are probably some Picassos out there in the world for sale.

(And then again, if you plug in the "Value of Statistical Life" for Art Garfunkel, maybe throw in his net worth, I guess you could put a price on "A Garfunkel"...)

...And $1 per US citizen = $312,620,000,000? I was wondering why it seemed a little crowded...
Last edited by tetsujin on Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:15 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby zifmia » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:08 pm UTC

One typo I haven't seen listed yet:
Under the Millions, Prizes, last entry.
The last digit of "1931" for the film "The Millionaire" is missing.

And under Trillions, the boxes/labels of gold, liquid assets, oil reserves are all scrambled. In fact I think the 9trillion boxes for gold are the 9 orphan boxes located much further down near 1980 on the debt chart.

I think that the histogram from 1920-present under trillions is supposed to be associated with the "Total public debt", but it took me a long time to figure that out since the caption is located all the way to the right and way above the histogram. Also, is the "rest of world" data for this chart just not available pre-1980?

Is there a standard exchange rate for pounds to knuts and sickles?

The pan and zoom tool is neat, but does anyone have practical advice on how to read this, short of a wall-sized printout? My double 28" monitors at work barely make a dent in this thing and I've probably missed a lot on my first look.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby 01satkins » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:12 pm UTC

On the typo front, i think the first UK 'who wants to be a millionaire' aired in 1998 not 1988

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby NukemHill » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:14 pm UTC

whammyster wrote:Combined net worth of 1,210 billionaires.... shouldn't that be in the $1.21T+ range, or was that logged after some mysterious market crash?

I caught that too. There are at least one or two zeros missing in that number. I'm actually guessing the total amount is > $100T.

Also "defecit" should be "deficit".

And I'm sure there are other nitpicks to be had. But those are minor compared to the rather impressive amount of work put into this. Good job, Randall!

Of course, you realize you've now provided ammunition for yet another round of R vs. D sniping about income and taxes and "wealthy" vs. "poor" etc., etc., etc. I'm looking forward to the first time this appears on the floor of Congress in a fiscal debate by our esteemed betters....

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby GrimRebuke » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:17 pm UTC

Under the oil and gas section, multiple times the figure 1.9 Billion is used when the block values beside it are dramatically different. My guess is someone copied and pasted the label and forgot to fix the value.

The oil, gold, and liquid assets labels are not matched well with their respecting block representations.

The section on trillions needs a lot of cosmetic work and should be a little more aligned with the methodology in the other sections. Using varying column and row sizes in each column and row makes the chart less informative, not more (World GDP section is particularly egregious).

If these issues are fixed, I will buy one. It is a great piece of work.

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Re: 0980: "Money" Hewlett-Packard Data

Postby NateOcean » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:20 pm UTC

There's gotta be an error in the Hewlett-Packard chart. The $126 Billion is revenue seems to jive, but the graph lists $52 Billion in profits. That's a huge return. The chart has shaded only 9 squares corresponding to $9 Billion. Based on this Yahoo data, I think the $9 Billion number is correct. I'm not sure where the $52 Billion number comes from.

Do I get a prize? A free poster?


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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby skumar » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:20 pm UTC

Wow - thank you Randall! That's a brilliant summary.

Lots of people have already pointed out typos, so will just add one more (that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet:

Trillions > World GDP >Europe needs ",000" more.

Thanks again

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Anonymous99 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:25 pm UTC

In the thousands block, the top 1% and the top 10% are listed as having the same wealth although the boxes tell a different story.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby ahdok » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:30 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure the Bush vs Kerry election was in 2004, rather than last year.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby marieC » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:31 pm UTC

I assume the typos will be corrected before the posters go to print. Otherwise, it's pretty cool.

Those are some damn expensive cats though. What are you feeding them? We spend about $12-$20 a month on our guys for food and litter. One cat (we have two) went to the vet once with a stomach issue a few years ago. We joke he totaled himself because it was a $200 bill (no insurance on them and we didn't do some of the tests as they seemed unnecessary) which was more than his adoption fee. He's fine and we now have cat Pepto-Bismol in the fridge.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Vehementi » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:32 pm UTC

The "annual federal government payments to dead retirees" is listed as $600M, but according to http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/dead-federal-retirees-paid-120-million-yearly-report-says/2011/09/22/gIQAZAncoK_blog.html, it's $600M over the course of whatever observed period, and only $120M annually.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby katylava » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

There is no way my brain can parse this chart.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby fredfnord » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Also missing (although I don't really blame him, since the data isn't nearly as readily available) is the average wage comparison (between then and now) that includes pension benefits.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Ratatosk » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:37 pm UTC

Chernobyl is in Ukraine, not in Belarus

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Wnderer » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:40 pm UTC

vortex.JPG (11.7 KiB) Viewed 5736 times

Accept for this part, I think the comic reinforces the magic money theory. That money can turn coffee beans into cars, instead of that money is used to trade coffee beans for cars. It makes it look like the billionaires net worth is different money from the money in the corporations, when their net worth is based on owning stock in the corporations. The comics interesting but economics is much too complicated to draw too many conclusions from it.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Someguy945 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:47 pm UTC

Another typo: Under Thousands, top 10% and top 1% are both listed as $201,100 for typical household income.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby brvhelios » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:48 pm UTC

I can only assume that one of these is a "typo" as the number associated with Advanced Combined Cycle Natural Gas is about $386 billion whereas the graphic only shows $153 billion. I assume that the number, not graphic, is correct as that would make it cheaper than conventional coal (without public health concerns) and hydroelectric.

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Re: 0980: "Money" Megaprojects: Amtrak

Postby NateOcean » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:52 pm UTC

The Amtrak Megaproject stuff seems wrong. The number says $192 Billion, but there are only 117 shades squares.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby runeb » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:53 pm UTC

Compare the representation of 50 Cents 100.000 and A Billionaire. Seems the billionaire representation should be twice the size, or 50 cents half the size.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby heyIMmike » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:55 pm UTC

Someone just beat me to the $1 per US citizen typo, and by extension the $1 per household.

Even with the typos, this is an incredible amount of information! It has gotten me to thinking to be sure.

OH, and i just registered for the forum, and I was reminded of comic #970 which was very funny indeed.

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