0980: "Money"

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dotsig
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby dotsig » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:38 pm UTC

There is a typo in the "thousands" block. The annual income for 1% is listed as $201,100, which is also the income for the top 10%. The number of blocks would indicate that the top 1% should be $822,000. An unfortunate error to make given the large political significance of this particular income threshold.

JohnBarrdear
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One word:

Postby JohnBarrdear » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:43 pm UTC

Econonerdgasm.

runcible
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby runcible » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:47 pm UTC

Amazing chart. Major props to Randall for the research and the effort.

It only lacks one thing: A list of the worth of the private interests who have the hammerlock on the issuing of our currency and credit. Their combined worth is magnitudes greater than Brin, Page, Gates, etc.

These private interests are the various banking families that have a great say in monetary policy and, by extension, governmental policies. Whoever issues money is the de facto, "shadow" government.

Manabu
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Manabu » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:48 pm UTC

Isn't anti-hidrogen the world's most expensive thing by weight? Well, you can't really buy and have it, but still.

silexh wrote:This thing is incredible.

For the people having problems, I've uploaded the pictures (all 2211 of them). To connect those pictures I've also uploaded some webpages to put all those pictures together, you can put them in the same folder as the images.
I've also uploaded a php script that can create complete pages, you can modify the location to something more local for speed.

Since I'm not allowed to use [ url ]:

Thanks! It is much better to navigate in those pages. I would still want an single PNG, but this is better than the default xkcd view.

foob@r
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby foob@r » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:48 pm UTC

There is a typo in the trillion GDP section: the Europe with Russia and Turkey is missing three zeroes (to make it larger than the EU).

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xX17GHDUDE17Xx
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby xX17GHDUDE17Xx » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:50 pm UTC

The 'HUGE' money poster is ONE HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLARS!? What the hell.
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" -Ghandi

Wrong. All that does is eliminate humanity's depth perception.

vectorious
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby vectorious » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:52 pm UTC

The GDP per head figures are hugely wrong

France $16k? 2011 is around $44k and growth and inflation have been low
UK $23k? £23k maybe, but that is around $40k
Likewise Germany and Switzerland

strangedesign9
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby strangedesign9 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:53 pm UTC

It seems like you almost fixed the cost of "Advanced combined cycle natural gas", but the Z seems unnecessary

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:53 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:Quick Game: spot the typos before M. Munroe makes sneaky fixes for all of them! As I'm getting in the nondenominational Christmas spirit, the winner gets an early Xmas present: an orange and a clip round the ear (and will be damned grateful about it).

"101 Dalmations" should be "101 Dalmatians" - is there a present for most irrelevant typo?
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Mikeynolan
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Mikeynolan » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:54 pm UTC

The errors appear to be self-repairing... McDonalds bars are fixed, but now there's a z in combined-cycle gas.

And really, only 2k for the room of playground balls? that's not as bad as I thought.

tdelahais
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby tdelahais » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:56 pm UTC

Hello,
The figures for "Income per capita" look weird, especially for France
According to your own sources, in 2005:

6. United States 41,800
17. Switzerland 32,300
24. Germany 30,400
25. United Kingdom 30,300
26. France 29,900
http://www.geohive.com/charts/ec_gdppc.aspx

Very nice chart, perhaps a bit less evocative than the previous one on radioactivity.

benlukes
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby benlukes » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:59 pm UTC

Something else that seems to be a mistake (maybe someone already noted it): The number of boxes added the the meal costs for 30 minutes of driving varies greatly and is often off by quite a bit from the $8.13 or $8.14 that it should be (the numbers given seem to be correct).

Also, where the heck does he get all his information?

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby picnic_crossfire » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:59 pm UTC

tl;dr
picnic time!

mippy
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby mippy » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:01 pm UTC

Investing $1000 a year for 30 years at 5% interest with 3% inflation will not give you a real value of $27K. Your real interest rate is 2% so the real value after 30 years will be around $41K (depending on how often the interest is compounded).

The figure on putting your money in your mattress for 30 years assumes you have all of the money in the first year, in contrast to the savings calculations which assumes you are adding $1000 a year. If you put $1000 in your mattress a year (to make it comprable), your real value after 30 years would be $20K not $12K.

silexh
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby silexh » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:02 pm UTC

Manabu wrote:Isn't anti-hidrogen the world's most expensive thing by weight? Well, you can't really buy and have it, but still.

silexh wrote:This thing is incredible.

For the people having problems, I've uploaded the pictures (all 2211 of them). To connect those pictures I've also uploaded some webpages to put all those pictures together, you can put them in the same folder as the images.
I've also uploaded a php script that can create complete pages, you can modify the location to something more local for speed.

Since I'm not allowed to use [ url ]:

Thanks! It is much better to navigate in those pages. I would still want an single PNG, but this is better than the default xkcd view.

I've been busy with that one as well!
You can grab it here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6849076/xkcd_money.png (made it with PDF it!)

Edit: I also updated the html files, the containing div is now exactly the size of the images contained within.
Last edited by silexh on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:28 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

fugacity
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby fugacity » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:06 pm UTC

Another poster and I commented on some typos here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=76691.

Most of these seem covered but:
Chernobyl probably isn't fair to include on the graph. Are the Fukushima (which does seem fair if extreme) meltdown related costs separate from purely flooding and tsunami damage? How about 3-Mile Island which would be more representative and should have very low actual damage costs (besides fighting press and lawsuit issues).

Electricity marginal costs might not extrapolate equally for all potential power sources. I.E. there should be an upper limit on the practical amount of power generation from hydro, wind, etc. Gas should likely have climate and environmental "externalities" added in like coal, especially from hydrofraking if we are proposing to scale that industry up to national capacity scale.

There seems to be a large section missing/unlabeled in the government budget section, i.e. just typical administrative departments, FBI, DEA, DOE, EPA, DOE, etc, etc. (Was searching for drug war info since that would be a savings if eliminated - but how much would be interesting to see in perspective.)
Last edited by fugacity on Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:10 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Yakk
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Yakk » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:07 pm UTC

xX17GHDUDE17Xx wrote:The 'HUGE' money poster is ONE HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLARS!? What the hell.

[][][][][][][][][][] [][][][][][][][][][] [][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][] [][][][][][][][][][] [][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][] [][][][][][][][][][] [][][][][][][][][][]
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One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

endolith
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby endolith » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:08 pm UTC

"Buri Khalifa" should be "Burj Khalifa"

joe schmoe
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby joe schmoe » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:10 pm UTC

Anyone else notice he listed 6 things under "5 things I learned while researching this chart"?

kirbmasta
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby kirbmasta » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:10 pm UTC

Found another typo; The values given in the "Fashion" section don't match the box count.

Asco
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Asco » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:15 pm UTC

Great comic :D
It's good to see some economics in XKCD.

In:
"Estimated total economic producitvity of the human race (so far)."
There's a typo in "productivity", but more importantly, the correct economic term is production.
Productivity is measured as production per input (for instance GDP per worker, per capita or per hour).

roadnottaken
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby roadnottaken » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:17 pm UTC

Why does it say $1 per US citizen is $312,620,000,000 -- that's Billion. Shouldn't it be $312 million?

aporeticus
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby aporeticus » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:19 pm UTC

This chart is totally bogus. The cost of items from "If I had $1,000,000" should obviously be converted from Canadian Dollars.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Yakk » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:19 pm UTC

Asco wrote:Great comic :D
It's good to see some economics in XKCD.

In:
"Estimated total economic producitvity of the human race (so far)."
There's a typo in "productivity", but more importantly, the correct economic term is production.
Productivity is measured as production per input (for instance GDP per worker, per capita or per hour).

Productivity per human race. ;)
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

smoon
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby smoon » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:20 pm UTC

Did anyone else wander off into the darkness around this image? Maybe Randall is hiding something somewhere out there, but I got pwned by a grue before I could find out...

visose
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby visose » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:32 pm UTC

The graph states that state taxes are regressive because of the sales tax. Technically, a regressive tax is when the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases. This means that a sales tax is a flat tax, because you have to compare it to the amount that that person is consuming, not his income. Regressive would be if, for example, buying a tomato had you pay 10 cents as sales tax, but buying 100 tomatoes would have you pay 50 cents.
I think that it's for political reasons that the term regressive is commonly used in relation to someones income, even when what is being taxed is not income.

fugacity
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby fugacity » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:32 pm UTC

roadnottaken wrote:Why does it say $1 per US citizen is $312,620,000,000 -- that's Billion. Shouldn't it be $312 million?

Also the two households figures don't agree, i.e. $1 from every to $10 changes the number by a different factor than 10.

ad;angx
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby ad;angx » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:32 pm UTC

I was really hoping to find out what the world spent more on: Sex or Drugs

Sadly I was disappointed when neither garnered any mention whatsoever. :cry:

fugacity
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby fugacity » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:34 pm UTC

Hap wrote:The Value of Statistical Life listed for the EPA ($8M+) is not the same thing as the measurement of human life. From wikipedia:
There is no standard concept for the value of a specific human life in economics. However, when looking at risk / reward trade-offs that people make with regard to their health, economists often consider the value of a statistical life (VSL). The VSL is the value that an individual places on a marginal change in their likelihood of death. Note that the VSL is very different from the value of an actual life. It is the value placed on changes in the likelihood of death, not the price someone would pay to avoid certain death.

Wouldn't the price to pay to avoid certain death, for a rational person, be infinite? The VSL seems to be the best figure to work from since it derives from measured behavior.

IIAOPSW
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby IIAOPSW » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:34 pm UTC

Display ALLL THE MONEY
-President of the peoples republik of the internet.

screw your coffee, i download my java!

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ganglion
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby ganglion » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:38 pm UTC

Just wanted to say thanks for doing this. I've been wanting to see something like this for a while, but never got round to doing it myself. All credit!

thebat137
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby thebat137 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:52 pm UTC

Love the chart!

A couple typo corrections (hopefully somebody hasn't mentioned these somewhere I missed):
"Public health burden in Appalacia" (in costs of electricty)
Also, the Spanish-American War seems to be orphaned in the wars section.

thebat137
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby thebat137 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:54 pm UTC

...Actually, a lot of the brackets in the Wars section seems to be misaligned slightly, and there's an unlabeled block (maybe that's the Spanish-American War?).

LCCX
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby LCCX » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:58 pm UTC

$1 per US citizen has an extra ",000"

2004 presidential campaign is listed as 2010

the film "The Millionaire" under Prizes is listed as "in 193" instead of 1939

ExxonMobil and its revenue of $354,700,000,000 is listed 3 times even though the graphic is different, suggesting the graphics are for other, unnamed companies

US annual oil and gas subisdies and Ethanol subsidies amounts do not match their graphic

the $ figure for total US health care spending is identical to the private figure instead of being added to the government figure

Saudi Aramco is misspelled

the AT&T attempted T-Mobile purchase price is written as the LivingSocial valuation instead of $39 billion

the amount for other US foreign military aid does not match its graphic

the amount for Advanced combined cycle natural gas is written as the solar thermal amount rather than a number matching its figure

the Amtrak 30-year plan for northeast corridor in megaprojects has the Apollo landings amount instead of its own

the Spanish-American war and Civil War name labels are too high and need to be adjusted down to be in line with their graphics

----
Is there any chance the typos will be cleaned up and we can get a typo-free poster?

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Sc4Freak
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Sc4Freak » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:00 pm UTC

I hope Randall doesn't mind, but I've uploaded the image to zoom.it for easier viewing.

http://zoom.it/oYhg

Uses HTML5 and much easier to use.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby skeptical scientist » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:04 pm UTC

Yes, he did cite a source for Hogwarts' annual cost (link).

However, I'm rather peeved that he cited a Daily Mail article rather than the original source—a post on a blog run by Lehigh University's Economics Society.
I'm looking forward to the day when the SNES emulator on my computer works by emulating the elementary particles in an actual, physical box with Nintendo stamped on the side.

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Vasher
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Vasher » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:06 pm UTC

In the Billions: Disasters section the 1988 US drought says it cost $78,060,000,000 and 1980 US drought says it cost $60,740,000,000. Both of them picture $83,000,000,000 as the cost

Also, in the same section after Hurricane Ike it says
"It is unclear is a similar rule exists for to terrorism"

I think there's an extra "to" in there

mippy
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby mippy » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:07 pm UTC

tetsujin wrote:Under the "total cost of items in 'If I Had a Million Dollars'" - "art" was omitted. (And for that matter, the "not a real green dress" - which I guess would be a knock-off of a designer dress)

Garfunkel would be another n/a, but there are probably some Picassos out there in the world for sale.

(And then again, if you plug in the "Value of Statistical Life" for Art Garfunkel, maybe throw in his net worth, I guess you could put a price on "A Garfunkel"...)

...And $1 per US citizen = $312,620,000,000? I was wondering why it seemed a little crowded...


Go for the Garfunkel. Picasso's "Nude, Green Leaves and Bus" sold for $106.5M last year. You can get "Playlist: The Very Best of Art Garfunkel" for $6.99 on Amazon.

Strife212
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Strife212 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:11 pm UTC

This entire part makes no sense, 5% interest on $1000 after 5 years won't give you $5526?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Darkwind212/chart-1.png

mindstalk
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby mindstalk » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:14 pm UTC

5:00 pm EST

Either OpenOffice is broken or the sources page is nigh-useless, it's just a bunch of links with no mapping to specific claims.

$1/US citizen is still off, in the extra ,000 and likely in the 312 too.
Why would the value of a suitcase full of $100 bills be decreasing? There's an unstated assumption.
$5.80 for a paperback seems low. Is that including used, or Amazon? List price on a new SF paperback is $7.99 or $8.99...

The per capita income column seems completely wrong. $32,000 for the US? More like $46,000. $16,000 for France? More like $34,000. And that's with PPP; the column doesn't say whether it's exchange rate or PPP.

Not necessarily an error, but a remarkable coincidence that "give every 18 year old a community college education" and "additional funding to magnet school levels" come out to 46.34 billion.

Ditto for Qianlong, Magna Carta, and 1933 Double Eagle, and those don't even have the same number of boxes.


While the idea of this is nice, I find the error rate severely undermines the value. If the author could post that France has half the per capita income of the US -- and that the US has 2/3 the income it actually does -- without that triggering an implausibility flag, what else could he have gotten wrong that I won't catch?


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