1109: "Refrigerator"

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Quicksilver
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1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Quicksilver » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:00 am UTC

Image
Alt text: "I want this engraved on my tombstone like the Epitaph of Stevinus."
Not a bad setup.

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glasnt
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby glasnt » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:02 am UTC

I'd want a better refuse bin, I'm scared that eggs would explode >_>

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rhomboidal
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby rhomboidal » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:05 am UTC

Yeah, I'd like to have a garbage-eating shark/troll in the "bad" bin to really make it energy efficient.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby orangustang » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:07 am UTC

glasnt wrote:I'd want a better refuse bin, I'm scared that eggs would explode >_>

How about a soft plastic flapper on top to act as a brake/splash guard?

Now taking bets on how long it will be before someone to actually build this.

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Quicksilver
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Quicksilver » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:09 am UTC

I'm surprised people didn't think of something like this sooner. We have TV's and internet on our fridges nowadays.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby viklund » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:38 am UTC

This setup is vulnerable to the great food-manufacturer conspiracy, where they put too short dates on the food to force us to buy more.

To combat this there should be an artificial nose that smells everything at the end of the belts combined with an arm that can reposition the food based on the results.

Fight the conspiracy!

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby creaothceann » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:55 am UTC

xkcd wrote:the Epitaph of Stevinus

Google is being unhelpful... :?

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby blowfishhootie » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:02 am UTC

creaothceann wrote:
xkcd wrote:the Epitaph of Stevinus

Google is being unhelpful... :?


https://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=se ... 02&bih=660

There are a few results. Something about inclined planes and mass ratios and such.

Amazingly, this thread is already on the first page of search results.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby lutzj » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:08 am UTC

blowfishhootie wrote:Amazingly, this thread is already on the first page of search results.


Them Google eyes be watchin'
addams wrote:I'm not a bot.
That is what a bot would type.

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Cristina
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Cristina » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:10 am UTC

I think it's a great idea, although the fridge would have to be made either wider or taller (or deeper, even) to accommodate for the lost space for storage at the side where there's now emptiness for food to fall through.
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby JimsMaher » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:12 am UTC

Wouldn't it be more efficient to put the trash bin on the non-hinge side of the door?

I suppose it depends on how full you keep your fridge; and how much you rely on the conveyor disposal system …

Still, removal of bad food is a priority. Unless you accept the trade off between airing things out by necessitating the full opening of the door everytime you have to remove the waste, and the loss of cold air contributing to more rapid spoiling. But the airing out issue could be partially resolved with a trap lid. And the influx of warmer air could be partially resolved by putting the bin on the other side … or putting the door hinge on the other side. Decisions, decisions.

:EDIT:
Also, regarding the "Epitaph of Stevinus" web search … try an image search instead, since Randall's referring to this comic's image as a potential "epitaph".

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Quicksilver
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Quicksilver » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:25 am UTC

Also, I'm probably the only one who thought of the DS game Infinite Space at the "Epitaph of Stevinus" line.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby pbnjstowell » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:33 am UTC

What if the shelf/conveyer belts went all the way across to a bin on the outside? Through those flappy plastic curtains like they have on luggage claim carousels - upgraded for more efficient temperature regulation.

Or maybe doors on the side could just open while the conveyer belt was working... you'd probably lose about as much cold air as opening the fridge to take the food/trash out anyways.
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby AtG » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:55 am UTC

glasnt wrote:I'd want a better refuse bin, I'm scared that eggs would explode >_>

If you keep them in the fridge you're doing it wrong.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Adacore » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:07 am UTC

creaothceann wrote:
xkcd wrote:the Epitaph of Stevinus

Google is being unhelpful... :?

Try this.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby flicky1991 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:36 am UTC

Adacore wrote:
creaothceann wrote:
xkcd wrote:the Epitaph of Stevinus

Google is being unhelpful... :?

Try this.

That page didn't have the word "epitaph" anywhere on it. I have now corrected that.
any pronouns
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Disposable_Identity » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:53 am UTC

I'm not one to complain (apparently, I am)
But wouldn't a better system be

3 months to 1 month ->

<- 1 month to 1 week

1 week to past due ->
| dev/null |

Perhaps have a railing system to kind of cushion the fall on the end. This way your glass jars don't have to go down as far once they go from 3 months to bad.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby keithl » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:54 am UTC

Epitaph of Stevinus: I remember seeing this a decade ago, and then forgot what it was called. That makes it hard to do an image search. For a recent presentation, I drew (from memory) a 3:4:5 right triangle, with a vertical weight on the 3 side and the diagonal weight on the 5 side. Here's what I just found (with a google image search for "Epitaph of Stevinus") next to what I drew:

Image

Mine shows how the weight of a cable resting on a frictionless inclined plane matches the weight of a cable hanging vertically over the same height. This helps illustrate some aspects of dynamic structures such as the Launch Loop.

So thanks, Randall! I now have an attribution to add to my own drawing.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Antior » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:03 am UTC

But... this, this is so old-fashioned.

Get rid of the conveyers. Put a rfid-chip in/on every food item in the fridge. Build an rfid reader and a small crane in the fridge. If something gets past the use before date according to the chip, the crane picks it up and drops it in a waste backet. That's a much more precise solution than this conveyer, that runs on regular times. For my solution, you don't even need to put stuff in at a certain position.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:18 am UTC

Antior wrote:But... this, this is so old-fashioned.

Get rid of the conveyers. Put a rfid-chip in/on every food item in the fridge. Build an rfid reader and a small crane in the fridge. If something gets past the use before date according to the chip, the crane picks it up and drops it in a waste backet. That's a much more precise solution than this conveyer, that runs on regular times. For my solution, you don't even need to put stuff in at a certain position.


putting things in a specific place is easier than setting up rfids for everything.

my only issue with it is I fill my fridge in a tetris style manner, having to put food in specific places would make it harder to get as much stuff in.

who am I kidding, I'd just turn the conveyor off, I trust my own instinct and nose way more than I trust the mostly made up best before dates on food.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Linux0s » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:50 am UTC

For the utmost efficiency just load the groceries straight into the Bad bin still in the bag.
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Mirkwood » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:56 am UTC

I think a major problem with this is that food tends to be perfectly edible past its stated "use by" date, and can sometimes be bad before the date. Everyone's fridge is a little different, and other factors contribute to spoilage, making the "use by" date an educated guess at best. Overzealous adherence to use by dates is part of why we waste so much food, which not only costs us money because of the wasted food, but also drives up the price of food (because of the extra demand based on wastefulness).

So yeah... any fridge with a system like this would need to be able to actually check food for edibility, instead of relying on the stated date. The same problem happens with the RFID tags other people mentioned. Of course, if you've got enough money to afford a fridge like this, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference to you.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:20 am UTC

I propose some kind of advanced system that is both able to visually scan best before dates on all products, then use a sophisticated system to analyse the odour and visual condition of the product, before moving the item to a waste receptacle if deemed inedible by the sophisticated software based on a series of historical data and risk assessment ability.

I say there should be at least one of these in every home!

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby arthurd006_5 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:31 am UTC

keithl wrote:Epitaph of Stevinus: ... Mine shows how the weight of a cable resting on a frictionless inclined plane matches the weight of a cable hanging vertically over the same height. This helps illustrate some aspects of dynamic structures such as the Launch Loop.

So thanks, Randall! I now have an attribution to add to my own drawing.

There's a dutch guy who agrees with you about how to do the drawing:
http://home.planet.nl/~hopfam/Devreese.html

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby da Doctah » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:40 am UTC

Linux0s wrote:For the utmost efficiency just load the groceries straight into the Bad bin still in the bag.


Not all of them. But for certain things (I'm thinking of milk in particular), there's no point even carrying them into the house. Just drop them in the dumpster as you come back from the store.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:09 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:
Linux0s wrote:For the utmost efficiency just load the groceries straight into the Bad bin still in the bag.


Not all of them. But for certain things (I'm thinking of milk in particular), there's no point even carrying them into the house. Just drop them in the dumpster as you come back from the store.



buy UHT milk, it lasts ages, even left out of the fridge.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Thorbard9 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:14 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:
Linux0s wrote:For the utmost efficiency just load the groceries straight into the Bad bin still in the bag.


Not all of them. But for certain things (I'm thinking of milk in particular), there's no point even carrying them into the house. Just drop them in the dumpster as you come back from the store.


I don't know what kind of milk you buy, but mine lasts about a week from fresh and in that time I, y'know, drink it in coffee and have it on cereal... I hardly ever have to throw any out.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby the27thvoice » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:43 am UTC

Disposable_Identity wrote:I'm not one to complain (apparently, I am)
But wouldn't a better system be

3 months to 1 month ->

<- 1 month to 1 week

1 week to past due ->
| dev/null |

Perhaps have a railing system to kind of cushion the fall on the end. This way your glass jars don't have to go down as far once they go from 3 months to bad.


Curse you! Here I made an account on the forum after over a thousand comics ONLY to say this. Having to manually move food up shelves is not efficient, reversing the shelves' order and then turning one of them the opposite way automates the process.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby MrT2 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:00 am UTC

AvatarIII wrote:buy UHT milk, it lasts ages, even left out of the fridge.

You do know UHT stands for Ultra Horrible Tasting, right? :D
You can buy (at least in the UK) extra-filtered milk that lasts up to 3 weeks unopened, and about 7 days once it's been opened.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:08 am UTC

MrT2 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:buy UHT milk, it lasts ages, even left out of the fridge.

You do know UHT stands for Ultra Horrible Tasting, right? :D
You can buy (at least in the UK) extra-filtered milk that lasts up to 3 weeks unopened, and about 7 days once it's been opened.


to be honest I find semi-skimmed or full fat UHT milk not that nice, skimmed UHT is fine though, nicer than non UHT skimmed milk possibly! And you have get used to it when you can't afford Cravendale.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby wolftune » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:06 pm UTC

Sorry but this is AWFUL. This is completely irresponsible thinking.
Check out Dive! the film. (I borrowed the DVD from the public library) :shock:

The United States throws out like half of our food when it is totally fine, just because we are so rigid about supposed expiration dates.
Dates don't make something bad, mold or other decomposition makes it bad. If you set the date so that you know it will be bad, then lots of bad stuff will not be marked bad. If you set the date earlier, you'll throw out perfectly good food.

A much better idea is just a fridge that somehow scans for whether food is actually going bad. Or at least something that just puts older stuff up front so you check it sooner.

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby lorb » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:07 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
MrT2 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:buy UHT milk, it lasts ages, even left out of the fridge.

You do know UHT stands for Ultra Horrible Tasting, right? :D
You can buy (at least in the UK) extra-filtered milk that lasts up to 3 weeks unopened, and about 7 days once it's been opened.

to be honest I find semi-skimmed or full fat UHT milk not that nice, skimmed UHT is fine though, nicer than non UHT skimmed milk possibly! And you have get used to it when you can't afford Cravendale.


There's a newish thing called ESL milk. It's currently the optimum combination of good taste and shelf life. (hence the name)
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:17 pm UTC

lorb wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
MrT2 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:buy UHT milk, it lasts ages, even left out of the fridge.

You do know UHT stands for Ultra Horrible Tasting, right? :D
You can buy (at least in the UK) extra-filtered milk that lasts up to 3 weeks unopened, and about 7 days once it's been opened.

to be honest I find semi-skimmed or full fat UHT milk not that nice, skimmed UHT is fine though, nicer than non UHT skimmed milk possibly! And you have get used to it when you can't afford Cravendale.


There's a newish thing called ESL milk. It's currently the optimum combination of good taste and shelf life. (hence the name)


I just looked it up, and apparently, until 2007, it was law that ESL milk was labelled as UHT milk in Europe for some reason, and since 2007, ESL milk has been allowed to be, and is, labelled as fresh :|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteuriza ... on_of_milk

Cravendale (which I mentioned) is ESL filtered milk, and is generally more expensive than other milk because if it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cravendale

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby thevicente » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:24 pm UTC

Am I the only one who though items in the 1st belt were dropped in the second and so on?

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby wolftune » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:29 pm UTC

wolftune wrote:Sorry but this is AWFUL. This is completely irresponsible thinking.
Check out Dive! the film. (I borrowed the DVD from the public library) :shock:

The United States throws out like half of our food when it is totally fine, just because we are so rigid about supposed expiration dates.
Dates don't make something bad, mold or other decomposition makes it bad. If you set the date so that you know it will be bad, then lots of bad stuff will not be marked bad. If you set the date earlier, you'll throw out perfectly good food.

A much better idea is just a fridge that somehow scans for whether food is actually going bad. Or at least something that just puts older stuff up front so you check it sooner.


BUMP! I just figured out why I really want to use threaded discussion fora for any site I make. Once people get into back-and-forth discussion here in the non-threaded system, any reply to the original post is bound to get completely ignored. :roll:

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby Kit. » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:31 pm UTC

Is it only me who thinks that someone needs to review his spending habits?

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby SerMufasa » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:32 pm UTC

Antior wrote:Get rid of the conveyers. Put a rfid-chip in/on every food item in the fridge. Build an rfid reader and a small crane in the fridge. If something gets past the use before date according to the chip, the crane picks it up and drops it in a waste backet. That's a much more precise solution than this conveyer, that runs on regular times. For my solution, you don't even need to put stuff in at a certain position.


You are missing the second purpose of the refrigerator, i.e., alerting the owner as to which food is currently near expiration so it can be given consumption priority. Instead of having to see which yogurts expire on 9/20 versus 10/1, you'll automatically know.
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby SerMufasa » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:33 pm UTC

wolftune wrote:BUMP! I just figured out why I really want to use threaded discussion fora for any site I make. Once people get into back-and-forth discussion here in the non-threaded system, any reply to the original post is bound to get completely ignored. :roll:


You bumped a comment because no one responded to it in 25 minutes? Really?
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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby wolftune » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:39 pm UTC

SerMufasa wrote:You bumped a comment because no one responded to it in 25 minutes? Really?


No, I bumped because nobody responded in 3 linear postings. Minutes are completely irrelevant. My intent was to disrupt the particular exchange going on. It's stupid that a couple folks having a back and forth discussion bury new posts in the middle of that. And in this setting, the longer I wait, the further deep and buried my post gets. Absolute time is really not the issue here. The issue is how less likely anyone is to read the unique and useful replies to the original topic because of annoying junk like this reply I'm now making to you. :roll:

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Re: 1109: "Refrigerator"

Postby atis » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:41 pm UTC

wolftune wrote:Sorry but this is AWFUL. This is completely irresponsible thinking.
Check out Dive! the film. (I borrowed the DVD from the public library) :shock:

The United States throws out like half of our food when it is totally fine, just because we are so rigid about supposed expiration dates.
Dates don't make something bad, mold or other decomposition makes it bad. If you set the date so that you know it will be bad, then lots of bad stuff will not be marked bad. If you set the date earlier, you'll throw out perfectly good food.

A much better idea is just a fridge that somehow scans for whether food is actually going bad. Or at least something that just puts older stuff up front so you check it sooner.


No, this is perfect idea.

You can position food a little after it's expiration (to check), and having conveyor belt would let you notice food that's approaching expiration date - you open the fridge to eat something and see that this meat is going bad in 2 days, so you better eat it if you don't want to throw it out.


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