1149: Broomstick

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby richP » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:51 pm UTC

My favorite suggested Oz rewrite came from an innocent looking piano player (pit orchestra people are a bit strange).

At the end, Glenda tells Dorothy that "why you had the power to go home all along". The alternate ending is Dorothy hauls off and punches Glenda in the nose. "You bitch! I could have gone home at any time? I didn't need to get carried around by flying monkeys?"

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby PolakoVoador » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:08 pm UTC

EpicanicusStrikes wrote:Actually, it always seemed like kind of a dick move that Sauron lost it in the first place. The semi-sentient piece of malevolance was always perfectly happy to accidentally slip away from whoever owned it. Including the guy who made it.


It didn't slip away from Sauron, it was cut from his hand, along with the finger.


blowfishhootie wrote: but based on those books presumably Bilbo used the ring at least a small number of times while it was in his possession without any apparent ill consequences, as at his birthday celebration. But then suddenly every time Frodo put on the ring, it was like a direct link to Sauron and/or his wraiths, as you said. That always bothered me about the movies (again, it's been a while since I read the books, not sure if it is true in them).


Frodo took several years to leave the Shire after the birthday (17 years, IIRC). It was during this years that the Nine were fully restored and Sauron began putting way more thoughts on finding the Ring. Before that, Sauron was possibly too weak to really "reach" for the Ring with his thoughts.

Furthermore, contrary to what the movies depict, it was not actually an instant and clear beep on Sauron's (or his wraiths') radar whenever someone uses the Ring, he'd have to be actively focused on the particular place or region where this happened. For example, Sam uses the Ring inside Mordor and Sauron doesn''t realized it, with all that army lead by Gandalf and the new king of men (Aragorn) knocking on his front door.

blowfishhootie wrote:Then of course there's Tom Bombadil, who didn't exactly gain any benefit from wearing the ring, but felt no ill consequences either.


Oh boy, let's not get started on this whole "but WHAT is Tom Bombadil?!?" :roll:

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby EpicanicusStrikes » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:28 pm UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:It didn't slip away from Sauron, it was cut from his hand, along with the finger.

Oh now really... The One Ring, with all its power and ability to twist fate in returning home, didn't know when to duck? It's slipped off of fingers before. Perhaps that would have been a good time to accidentally fall into the Dark Lord's pants.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Klear » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:31 pm UTC

EpicanicusStrikes wrote:Oh now really... The One Ring, with all its power and ability to twist fate in returning home, didn't know when to duck? It's slipped off of fingers before. Perhaps that would have been a good time to accidentally fall into the Dark Lord's pants.


That would only make the cutting-off much more painful.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:39 pm UTC

In The Hobbit, Sauron has not yet returned to Mordor, and the One Ring, like all his works, is still "asleep".

In the books, it's almost 17 years between the last use of the One Ring by Bilbo (at the birthday party) and Gandalf and Frodo discovering the One Ring's identity - in all that time, it sits, untouched, in Frodo's keeping. During the 60-odd years between Bilbo's return and the Birthday Party, Sauron re-entered Mordor and began to build his strength, but it's not until earlier in the year in which Frodo and his friends set out that Sauron sends forth his power openly, questing for the One Ring with his thoughts, and sending the Nazgul to seek Baggins of the Shire. It's Sauron's search that makes wearing or wielding the One Ring so dangerous - until Sauron discovered that the One Ring was back in play, it was, comparatively, safe to wear because no-one (except possibly Saruman) was actively seeking it...

As for occasions when the One Ring was useful: eluding Boromir at the end of Fellowship, and Sam using it to avoid being captured in Cirith Ungol are the two that come to mind, with the latter being crucial to the success of the Quest.

EpicanicusStrikes wrote:
PolakoVoador wrote:It didn't slip away from Sauron, it was cut from his hand, along with the finger.

Oh now really... The One Ring, with all its power and ability to twist fate in returning home, didn't know when to duck? It's slipped off of fingers before. Perhaps that would have been a good time to accidentally fall into the Dark Lord's pants.


The One Ring's main power when not worn appears to be an ability to exert an attractive, corrupting influence on nearby minds - inspiring a desire to possess and wear it, until, in due course, the wearer becomes a puppet of the Ring - a servant to the One Ring's true master...

[edit]If the One Ring had the foresight to "know when to duck", then it would have abandoned Gollum where a Goblin would have come across it, rather than where it could be found by the only other non-Goblin to walk those tunnels in a thousand years...

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Zinho » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:42 pm UTC

Is it just me, or does the Wizard's hat make him look like BHG with a halo? I get that it's supposed to be a top hat with a hatband or stripe or something, but if the Wiz is BHG, that explains him being a bit of a jerk. Apologizing when caught seems out of character, though...


On a separate topic, someone should fix the link for the comic in the first post; malformed (not linking) and pointing to the homepage instead of the permanent link.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby PolakoVoador » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:55 pm UTC

EpicanicusStrikes wrote:
PolakoVoador wrote:It didn't slip away from Sauron, it was cut from his hand, along with the finger.

Oh now really... The One Ring, with all its power and ability to twist fate in returning home, didn't know when to duck? It's slipped off of fingers before. Perhaps that would have been a good time to accidentally fall into the Dark Lord's pants.


Maybe you're reasoning from the movie's version. In the books, Sauron was "dead" after fighting Elendil and Gil-galad, killing them both in the process, but being mortally wounded as well. So Isildur just cut the fingers out of a limp hand of a dead body.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby cellocgw » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:56 pm UTC

nykevin wrote:It is, of course, a plot point that the slippers cannot be removed.

I think you're confusing the slippers with the sacrificial ring from "Help."
At least in the book, Dorothy takes the slippers off when she bathes (which the author pointed out was safe because the WWotW would never go near that much water)
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby cellocgw » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:05 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:In The Hobbit, Sauron has not yet returned to Mordor, and the One Ring, like all his works, is still "asleep".

In the books, it's almost 17 years between the last use of the One Ring by Bilbo (at the birthday party) and Gandalf and Frodo discovering the One Ring's identity - in all that time, it sits, untouched, in Frodo's keeping.


I'm not convinced. remember the difficult time Gandalf had in arranging for Bilbo to give the ring up? He (Gandalf) must have had a darn good idea about the ring at that point. Else why force Bilbo to hand it off in the first place?
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby ShuRugal » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:13 pm UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:Oh boy, let's not get started on this whole "but WHAT is Tom Bombadil?!?" :roll:


Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow;
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.

rmsgrey wrote:[edit]If the One Ring had the foresight to "know when to duck", then it would have abandoned Gollum where a Goblin would have come across it, rather than where it could be found by the only other non-Goblin to walk those tunnels in a thousand years...


A goblin serves little purpose for the ring. Individually, they are too small and weak to accomplish any useful purpose, and are (generally) far too short-lived (even with the ring extending them?) to be worked on over time and turned into something that would be more useful. Gollum was sufficiently tenacious to survive living outside goblin society, and preying upon it. Gollum kept the ring isolated from the world, but also preserved it in a fixed location/stewardship at a time when being in contact with the world at large would be useless, as Sauron was not able to take advantage of the presence of the ring. Then along comes this hardy, if timid, upworld creature, still in the prime of his youth and excellent health. Having had experience with a similar creature (Smeagol), the ring knows that it can ride Bilbo back to the surface, and keep him alive long enough for Sauron to finish restoring himself sufficiently to come retrieve it.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Charname » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:22 pm UTC

One of the weirder aspects of The Wizard of Oz is that Dorothy agrees to be an assassin for hire. Which, in most states, is enough to warrant the death penalty (at least if you're successful).

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Chezzik » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:55 pm UTC

Is it still okay to discuss Oz lore in this thread?

Maybe we should ask Randall to create a LOTR comic so we can discuss Dorothy and Toto?

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Wnderer » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:16 pm UTC

broomstick2.png

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Auliya » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:18 pm UTC

richP wrote:My favorite suggested Oz rewrite came from an innocent looking piano player (pit orchestra people are a bit strange).

At the end, Glenda tells Dorothy that "why you had the power to go home all along". The alternate ending is Dorothy hauls off and punches Glenda in the nose. "You bitch! I could have gone home at any time? I didn't need to get carried around by flying monkeys?"


There's a video of a very similar alternate ending:
www youtube com/watch?v=6exm2Hi28Xw
Such plot hole is not present in the book, since there are two good witches instead of one: the Good Witch of the North and the Good Witch of the South. Only the one that Dorothy meets at the end knows how to transport her back home.

Also, guys, you reeeeally need to watch "Wicked".

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby orthogon » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:30 pm UTC

Klear wrote:
EpicanicusStrikes wrote:Oh now really... The One Ring, with all its power and ability to twist fate in returning home, didn't know when to duck? It's slipped off of fingers before. Perhaps that would have been a good time to accidentally fall into the Dark Lord's pants.


That would only make the cutting-off much more painful.


I think you're confusing The Hobbit with The Bobbit...
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby ijuin » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:06 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:Come to think of it, did the wizard get back to Kansas in the balloon after it took off without Dorothy, or did it just crash somewhere else in Oz?

The Wizard was originally form Omaha, Nebraska. He did manage to get back to the USA with the balloon and resumed his aeronautical showmanship career. In the fourth book (Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz), he, balloon and all, descends into a crevice opened by a California earthquake and ends up in a land-beneath-the-Earth, where he meets up with Dorothy and her preteen cousin Jeb, who had arrived there through a separate adventure.

cellocgw wrote:I'm not convinced. remember the difficult time Gandalf had in arranging for Bilbo to give the ring up? He (Gandalf) must have had a darn good idea about the ring at that point. Else why force Bilbo to hand it off in the first place?


Gandalf definitely knew that Bilbo had obtained a powerful Ring by the end of The Hobbit (he even says of Bilbo, "his tale has a ring of truth to it. Yes, it rings."). We do not know at what point he discovers that it is the One Ring (as opposed to one of the Nine Rings of Mortal Men, or the Seven Rings of the Dwarves, or some other ring).

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby tetsujin » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:36 pm UTC

Wnderer wrote:
broomstick2.png


Or, directly after panel 2, "Monkeys, seize her and chop off her feet!"
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby TimXCampbell » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:51 pm UTC

Chezzik wrote:Is it still okay to discuss Oz lore in this thread? Maybe we should ask Randall to create a LOTR comic so we can discuss Dorothy and Toto?

My fault! I introduced the whole LOTR issue as a joke but ... I should have known. Let me see if I can un-do the damage.

During the Death Star trench scene in the first Star Wars film, Darth Vader could have rattled Skywalker's concentration by getting on the radio (or telepathy, whatever) and saying, “Say, Luke, Obi Wan must have told you that I'm your father, right?”

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby philsov » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:09 pm UTC

During the Death Star trench scene in the first Star Wars film, Darth Vader could have rattled Skywalker's concentration by getting on the radio (or telepathy, whatever) and saying, “Say, Luke, Obi Wan must have told you that I'm your father, right?”


Did he even know that was Luke? All it was was "the force is strong with this one" iirc.

As for why Darth didn't use the Force to gather better information in the first place is also a mystery. Or how he even got caught offguard from Han. Or why the hell Chewy didn't mention anything about his previous life where he personally worked with Yoda and then just happened to be on Tatooine and take in one of the last living Jedi. (George Lucas you retconning bastard).
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby TimXCampbell » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:22 pm UTC

philsov wrote:Or why the hell Chewy didn't mention anything about his previous life...

Ah, but in one scene Chewbacca clearly says, “Eeewroowwrreerrrooo arrrr raaawr,” but Han isn't paying attention.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby tetsujin » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:43 pm UTC

philsov wrote:
During the Death Star trench scene in the first Star Wars film, Darth Vader could have rattled Skywalker's concentration by getting on the radio (or telepathy, whatever) and saying, “Say, Luke, Obi Wan must have told you that I'm your father, right?”


Did he even know that was Luke? All it was was "the force is strong with this one" iirc.

As for why Darth didn't use the Force to gather better information in the first place is also a mystery. Or how he even got caught offguard from Han.


Jedi aren't perfect. Hence, the whole "Order 66" slaughter and the various casualties against droids...

Besides, Vader wasn't Luke's father in the first movie. :)
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby eran_rathan » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:51 pm UTC

TimXCampbell wrote:
philsov wrote:Or why the hell Chewy didn't mention anything about his previous life...

Ah, but in one scene Chewbacca clearly says, “Eeewroowwrreerrrooo arrrr raaawr,” but Han isn't paying attention.



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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby PolakoVoador » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:13 pm UTC

Oh man, we are so easily nerd-sniped :oops:

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby TimXCampbell » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:33 pm UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:Oh man, we are so easily nerd-sniped :oops:

I agree, but in my opinion it's much more benign than trolling.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Klear » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:59 pm UTC

TimXCampbell wrote:
PolakoVoador wrote:Oh man, we are so easily nerd-sniped :oops:

I agree, but in my opinion it's much more benign than trolling.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Rotherian » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:18 am UTC

Klear wrote:
TimXCampbell wrote:
PolakoVoador wrote:Oh man, we are so easily nerd-sniped :oops:

I agree, but in my opinion it's much more benign than trolling.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Jorpho » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:27 am UTC

Auliya wrote:Such plot hole is not present in the book, since there are two good witches instead of one: the Good Witch of the North and the Good Witch of the South. Only the one that Dorothy meets at the end knows how to transport her back home.
Huh? The Good Witch of the North never appears at all. In fact, Mr. Baum kind of quietly forgets about her. (He does that with a lot of things. He didn't place much value on continuity.)

Also, guys, you reeeeally need to watch "Wicked".
Just don't read the book. (Terrible, terrible book. It is worth repeating. Terrible.)

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby paulrowe » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:46 am UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:
blowfishhootie wrote:Then of course there's Tom Bombadil, who didn't exactly gain any benefit from wearing the ring, but felt no ill consequences either.


Oh boy, let's not get started on this whole "but WHAT is Tom Bombadil?!?" :roll:

I know this is bait, but I'm biting anyway. Tom Bombadil is a Maia, as were Sauron, Olorin, Curumo, and Melian. They were similar creations to the Valar, but had less power. It does seem interesting, though, that Olorin and Curumo were both tempted by this power when Bombadil was apparently immune. Perhaps Sauron had nothing to offer Bombadil that Bombadil wanted and did not already have.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Sprocket » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:25 am UTC

I want to "LIKE" so many of these posts.

Yeah I guess that works if you have no concern for the fact that the power of the slippers will help secure the wicked witch's reign of cruelty and bullshit...sure what the fuck you care if you help a sadistic sociopath terrorize OZ. Sleep well, Dorthy.

Also, witch tried to take them off earlier, and she couldn't.
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Jorpho » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:20 am UTC

Oh, I completely forgot about the How It Should Have Ended vid.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:56 am UTC

paulrowe wrote:I know this is bait, but I'm biting anyway. Tom Bombadil is a Maia, as were Sauron, Olorin, Curumo, and Melian. They were similar creations to the Valar, but had less power. It does seem interesting, though, that Olorin and Curumo were both tempted by this power when Bombadil was apparently immune. Perhaps Sauron had nothing to offer Bombadil that Bombadil wanted and did not already have.

I'm always down for a Tolkien derail.

Tom Bombadil was not a Maia.

I'm not going to argue that he was something else, because Tolkien himself said that Bombadil is an intentional mystery, perhaps even to his creator, i.e. Tolkien himself didn't necessarily have an explanation of who or what Bombadil was in the context of his legendarium, and if he did, he certainly didn't intend to share it.

Metafictionally, Tom is a character out of a different fiction entirely (some children's poems) that Tolkien wrote and published 20 years before LotR, transplanted into the LotR world, and as such may not have a proper place in it at all. (Also to bear in mind here is Tolkien's philosophy of "sub-creation", as explicated in Leaf by Niggle, which if I may take some liberties implies a sort of multiverse of equally "real" fictional worlds which supports, in a kind of meta-narrative sense, the ability of a character to be moved from one fictional world to another).

To explicitly exclude a Maia as a possible identify for Tom though, we just need to take note of the fact that Tom was in the world before even Morgoth, who was explicitly the first Ainur to enter it. Excluding some other kind of celestial beings we may not know about (some of which may exist, and are hinted at in some places, such as in Gandalf's description of his fall through the world in Moria), or Eru himself (which Tolkien explicitly denied), and metafictional interpretations as "Tom's original stories are older than the LotR stories", that leaves only some part of the world itself for Tom's identity. There is precedent for that as well, with apparently sentient if not sapient geographical features such as the mountain Caradhras, and possibly Tom's wife Goldberry and her mother "the River-woman". But one way or another, if Tom was in Ea before even Melkor, then he's not any of the kinds of creatures we know much about in Tolkien's legendarium, including a Maia.

(To those trying to follow along at home: Maiar are the lesser order of those Ainur, or angelic beings, who entered the physical universe of Ea, in which is the world of Arda, including the continent of Endor or Middle-Earth. Many familiar characters and creatures are Maiar, including: Sauron himself; the five Istari or Wizards, including Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, 'and the rest' as they'd say on Gilligan's Island; all Balrogs; and Elrond's great great grandma and, via his brother Elros, distant ancestor of the entire line of High Kings of Men down through Aragorn, Melian. The greater order of Ainur who entered into Ea are the Valar, commonly known as gods to lesser men, formerly including among their numbers Melkor Morgoth, the original Dark Lord and Sauron's old boss, most powerful of the Ainur and first to enter the world after its creation. All of the Ainur were created by Eru Illuvatar, the monotheistic capital-g God, in a place outside the universe called the Timeless Halls, basically heaven. Elves and Men are also Eru's direct creations; everything else was made indirectly via the Ainur).

EDIT: Mismatched parenthesis
Last edited by Pfhorrest on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:35 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Idhan » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:30 am UTC

TimXCampbell wrote:This approach really shortens the Oz series.

Now, then, if we can come up with a way for Bilbo Baggins to make The One Ring inaccessible instead of destroying it, we can save ourselves all kinds of time. I'm thinking about encasing it in lead , rowing out to sea and chucking it over the side. (Do hobbits know anything about plate tectonics? I'm thinking subduction zone.)


That would prevent the worst case scenario -- Sauron gets the ring -- but the ring's mere existence, even if not on Sauron's finger, is sufficient to keep Mordor viable as a state powerful enough to threaten the world. When the ring is actually destroyed, Mordor's orc armies collapse instantaneously, the Nazgûl die, and its Southron human vassals quickly abandon it. Destroying the ring didn't just prevent it from falling into the wrong hands -- it was a deathblow to the considerable power wielded by Sauron even without the ring.

I'm not sure whether the Council of Rivendell Elrond participants knew exactly how dramatically they would cripple (kill?) Sauron by destroying the ring, but in hindsight it may have saved the world compared to even successfully hiding the ring forever at the bottom of an oceanic trench of whatever. If the ring were permanently inaccessible, Mordor might still have successfully conquered or vassalized much Middle Earth through conventional military, diplomatic, and covert ops efforts, even without Sauron ever successfully recovering the ring.
Last edited by Idhan on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:03 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Klear » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:02 am UTC

@Pfhorrest: Nice summary! I was never interested in delving deeper into Tolkien beside the four books dealing with The Ring, but I kinda absorbed all what you wrote yesterday from the wiki, in a successful attempt to procrastinate at work =)

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Auliya » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:34 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:
Auliya wrote:Such plot hole is not present in the book, since there are two good witches instead of one: the Good Witch of the North and the Good Witch of the South. Only the one that Dorothy meets at the end knows how to transport her back home.
Huh? The Good Witch of the North never appears at all. In fact, Mr. Baum kind of quietly forgets about her. (He does that with a lot of things. He didn't place much value on continuity.)


Well, I'm not saying Wikipedia is always to be trusted, but I think in this case we can consider this book summary as accurate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonder ... ot_summary

The Good Witch of the North gives Dorothy the silver shoes and sends her off to the Emerald City, while the Good Witch of the South (Glinda) reveals how she can return home in the end. It is possible that the GWotN didn't know about all the powers of the silver shoes.

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Jorpho
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Jorpho » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:18 pm UTC

Oops. I really should have checked that first. I hang my head in shame. :oops:

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby cream wobbly » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:57 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:fighting him for untold millennia

No, it's told.

Pfhorrest wrote:([...] the Silmarillion is a chore to read).

Oh, I see.

[I just want to add that I agree with and appreciate your other Tolkien-derail posts. Thanks!]

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Carteeg_Struve » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:30 pm UTC

My first thought after reading this: "And this is why Fairuza Balk is the far superior Dorothy." :mrgreen:

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Magiko » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:25 pm UTC

Such an odd pair of threads here. Commenting on both...

My issue with the comic (and especially the hover text) is that it implies that the witch would get her broom back at some point. The Wizard of Oz asked for the boom. One implication of the request (which was mentioned) was that the witch would be dead. Even if they work around that a second implication is that he would *keep* it and she wouldn't ever get it back. Of course, the problem I shouldn't even bother mentioning is that the Witch is the antagonist and wishes to possess both her broom (which we assume gives her power) AND the slippers (which we assume would give her more power) simultaneously. The agreement is doomed on all sorts of levels.

I understood the Ring and Sauron to be the same. It didn't slip off of Sauron's finger insomuch as cutting off the ring was equal to beheading him. He lived on as if the Ring were a Horcrux (oh shit I'm mixing more nerd culture here, we don't need a 3rd topic).

The Ring influences minds of those who are around them (as others have said) but it was less good at manipulating Hobbits (and terribly good at manipulating humans). Tolkein speculated in The Hobbit that Gollum was once Hobbit-like. One side-effect/power the owner gets is prolonged life. It was always described by Bilbo as "thin"... or... "butter scraped over too much bread" -- he looked too young for his birthday (the 111th birthday I think) when he takes off to live with the elves. He didn't really feel like a hobbit anymore.

Well before the party, the ring saw an opportunity in Bilbo to leave Gollum's cave. Gollum was a convenient hiding spot, but it really didn't want to be there, as Gollum wasn't a corruptible human. Bilbo wasn't a desirable host either, but it wanted to start moving, as Sauron's power was growing again. Gandalf saw all of this and knew that the carrier had to be a hobbit. This is why he wouldn't carry it, and why he shot down when others offered. It had to be Frodo (and Frodo was the only hobbit in the shire with the adventurer's desire - hobbits don't normally have that trait, not even Bilbo was an adventurer, and Bilbo was already too far corrupted for this mission - it really had to be Frodo).

Personally, I think Bilbo was stronger overall. He gave up the ring after owning it for a very long time. He showed signs of turning into Gollum, but Frodo showed similar signs after a really short period (and yes, I know Sauron was stronger and he walked right at him but I've always thought Bilbo a better character and so I'm biased!).

Someone said something about throwing it into an ocean, or making it otherwise inaccessible:

The problem with this is that anyone who knew where it was would quest for it constantly. Also, it's magic, and might just start bringing people to it. If it's the ocean, maybe it gets a fish swallow it and take it back to land. The whole point is that it bends people to its will and that it's magic - so this isn't a viable option. It had to be destroyed.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby mrob27 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:10 am UTC

Rotherian wrote:I know I'm gonna regret this... (ah, who am I kidding? I'm an @$$hole, I have no regrets.)

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK INTO MORDOR!
- SARUMAN


No, I think the saying goes, "Only Nixon could walk into Mordor."

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_goes_to_China)
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Plutarch » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:35 am UTC

I've enjoyed everyone's Lord of the Rings digressions. Also, I still have a childhood fear of anything to do with the Wizard of Oz.


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