If you fled the US, where would you go?

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To where would you flee?

Canada
83
30%
Denmark
1
0%
UK
33
12%
Sweden
28
10%
Norway
12
4%
Finland
4
1%
Netherlands
11
4%
Australia or New Zealand (please specify)
41
15%
France
9
3%
Germany
5
2%
Other (please specify)
52
19%
 
Total votes: 279

Gadren
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If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Gadren » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:36 am UTC

I'm sort of assuming that people are already in the US here... sorry international peoples! You can still offer your 2 euros or whatever you use. ;) I'm also assuming that you would in fact be leaving the US and not (depending on how dramatic you want to be):
1: working to fix the social/political issues in the US
2: standing your ground against the coming revolution.


"I'm so sick of the craziness in my country. If things don't get better, I'm moving to [insert country here]!"

You've heard famous people say it before elections. You may have said it to yourself. There's even a comic about it (I started a new topic because I wanted a poll and I wanted a slightly more serious discussion of the issue)! And even though I'm still just in college (or maybe because of it), I keep coming back again and again to the idea of moving to some country that's more sensible. And "sensible" to me is code for "socially libertarian, economically socialist, politically active, peaceful, pot-smoking, scientifically rational, diverse ... all those nice fluffy things."

The big issue seems to be to which country to emigrate. Canada's close, but is it just "America Lite," destined to go the way of the US? Those Scandinavian nations look nice and always score well on international rankings, but what makes one better than another? (These pros and cons are pulled out of the air, since I haven't done as much research as I would like)

So I'm making this poll to see where you would flee to, but more importantly, why that place over another. Go ahead and vote, and then tell us what makes that country so appealing. :) In the future I'll make one of those nice Wikipedia color-by-numbers maps to show xkcd's expatriation choices... then send it in to the government to show your lack of patriotism. ;)

Since I'm starting this poll, it's pretty apparent I don't have a clear idea of where I would go, but two places that stick in my mind are Canada and Denmark. Canada is close, and I do have Danish ancestry (but I've been told that "heritage" isn't any reason to favor one country over another).

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Marlo
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Postby Marlo » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:14 am UTC

I'd go to Ireland. It's a beautiful country, and the friendliest random people I've ever met are in Westport. They have I think the fastest growing economy in Europe, and they speak English. From there I can get cheap Ryanair flights to the other parts of Europe I like, like the UK and Spain.

Guiness is also the least offensive tasting beer I've had.
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Postby arbivark » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:22 am UTC

Probably an island, former british territory. Carribean, Pacific, Channel.
Would like to check out Thailand - don't know yet whether i'd want to live there. Costa Rica maybe. Xkcdia.

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Amicitia
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Postby Amicitia » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:32 am UTC

Why would one flee from the U.S.? Is it trendy nowadays?

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby lowbrass » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:36 am UTC

Gadren wrote:
2: standing your ground against the coming revolution.



I believe if it ever comes to this point, I will be a part of that revolution. I love this country and its constitution and would hate to see it turn into a theocracy/police state/dictatorship/other bad thing.

I guess if I was forced to leave, France would be nice. Good food, good wine, nice beaches.

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Postby German Sausage » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:36 am UTC

i would go to sweden.
if late-night-SBS has taught me anything, its that scandinavia is a fun place to be, despite the debilitating ennui and odd cycles of daylight. or perhaps because.
also, two of my favourite bands come from gothenburg, i think that would be a pretty sweet deal.
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Postby Marlo » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:27 am UTC

arbivark wrote:Would like to check out Thailand - don't know yet whether i'd want to live there.


Thailand is crazy and hot. Crazy in that the police don't seem to care about software piracy around them, the police sometimes pull you over and ask for bribes, and driving within the lane lines in the roads is oftentimes treated as an optional thing to do.

It is kind of a fun place, though. And the food is good.
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Postby ZeroSum » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:32 pm UTC

Amicitia wrote:Why would one flee from the U.S.? Is it trendy nowadays?
Yes.

I would go to Australia. It's still English-speaking and I have family there.

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Postby Cassi » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:00 pm UTC

Is this taking into account the difficulties of sorting out visas and so on, or are we just assuming that you'd have no trouble getting into whichever country you chose?

As I'll have UK citizenship within...oh, 3 years at the absolute most, were I to move back to the US and then decide to leave again, I'd be coming back here...

Ignoring practicalities, I'd probably go for Australia instead -- the weather here really depresses me, and I'm not sure I could handle it long term.

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Postby Whim » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:07 pm UTC

Marlo wrote:I'd go to Ireland. It's a beautiful country, and the friendliest random people I've ever met are in Westport. They have I think the fastest growing economy in Europe, and they speak English. From there I can get cheap Ryanair flights to the other parts of Europe I like, like the UK and Spain.

Guiness is also the least offensive tasting beer I've had.

I live in Ireland so I feel I should give some response. I love it here and I'm happy but it's no utopia. The economy's booming but give it a few years and things'll be slow. The cost of living is ridiculous. We're rich enough to afford it but it's only a matter of time when things are just too expensive. And not everyone's that friendly but everwhere's like that. Pig headed bible bashing nationalists are not uncommon. (But I'm sure you're used to that at home...)

But yeah, Guinness rules.

Now for my own "2 euros". I don't see any need for me to leave but if all jobs dissapeared or a theocracy rose up, UK or Germany would be my most likely. England is very like Ireland, but with different accents and bigger cities. And Germany feels like my kind of place. I'm not sure how to explain that but when I was there it felt like I belonged there.

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Postby TheStranger » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:02 pm UTC

If I had to flee the country for some reason I'd go to New Zealand. (not Australia, one of the guys I work with is from NZ and he says that Australians have intercourse with sheep). That or Ireland, a good portion of my genetic material comes from that place (plus I hear that the beer is passable).

It would be hard for me to imagine a reasonable situation where I'd leave the US though. Elected officials don't really have the power to make massive changes on a whim.
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Postby peter » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:10 pm UTC

"Other"

Old Gramps' got a house in Greece, and it's a really nice place. Got some land, and it's an hour-and-a-half from Athens. Good place to hide out until the Revolution is over.

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Postby gmalivuk » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:03 pm UTC

Why don't you just make separate options for Oz and NZ, instead of lumping them together and then asking us to still go ahead and specify one or the other.

I'd probably go to New Zealand, and will vote to that effect when the poll is fixed.
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Postby Gadren » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:17 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Why don't you just make separate options for Oz and NZ, instead of lumping them together and then asking us to still go ahead and specify one or the other.

I'd probably go to New Zealand, and will vote to that effect when the poll is fixed.


Is it possible for me to fix the poll? I didn't see an option to do so.

lowbrass wrote:I believe if it ever comes to this point, I will be a part of that revolution. I love this country and its constitution and would hate to see it turn into a theocracy/police state/dictatorship/other bad thing.

Sorry, I worded it wrong -- I meant to imply that one of those choices would be being part of the revolution. :)

arbivark wrote:Would like to check out Thailand - don't know yet whether i'd want to live there.

I've heard of some weird laws regarding treatment of their king, leading to Google removing YouTube videos that offend the Thai king. Don't know if that would influence your decisions, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on it.

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Postby Phenriz » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:28 pm UTC

australia
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Postby Aetre » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:31 pm UTC

Other: Japan.

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Postby J » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:30 pm UTC

Most of Europe isn't sensible, just slow. Give us a few years, and we'll be just where the US is now. When that happens, I might move to France. They still have the balls to stand up to the US.
Food, wine, weather and climbing opportunities are also better there.

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Postby TheStranger » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:38 pm UTC

J wrote:Most of Europe isn't sensible, just slow. Give us a few years, and we'll be just where the US is now. When that happens, I might move to France. They still have the balls to stand up to the US.
Food, wine, weather and climbing opportunities are also better there.


From what I've heard France is trying to get back on track. The new leadership is pushing reforms that should eliminate some of the labor laws that are holding it back (bye bye 35 hr mandated work week).
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Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:44 pm UTC

By the way, I'm British

It's sort of a tie betwixt the Scandinavian countries. I think the big reason why they are so good these days is that for the longest time, it wasn't brawn that got you through, you lived in Scandinavia by having the brains to keep warm and keep your crops alive. So there weren't many people, and most of them were smart.

But anyway, I personally choose Sweden, because it seems to me to have the least influence from stupider countries, and has a neutral position (they're like Switzerland, but have an actual military, rather than militia) and more protective social system.

All the Scandinavian countries don't take any of that spin shit, you present your points, everyone else judges the points you make, if you're determined an idiot, they'll crush you like a bug, if you've got some good points, they'll respect you.
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Postby bbctol » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:57 pm UTC

Probably Canada, possibly the UK.

Canada: Nearby, English-speaking, fairly Socialist, about to come into a ton of oil and, presumably, money
UK: English-speaking, in Europe which is cool, people have hot accents

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Postby Khonsu » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:09 pm UTC

I don't know--anywhere where they'll leave me alone to do as I want so long as I won't hurt anyone. Of course, that COULD be anywhere, but I think I'll have to go with Sweden since that's where my girlfriend's extended family is and they are like "if you ever flee, you come here!" >_>

I would like Britain or France, though. Maybe Spain. I want to live somewhere where religious zealots don't even have a damn chance to cause trouble, so I think maybe France or Sweden, possibly Britain if they ever stop kissing the US's ass.

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Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:24 pm UTC

Don't pick Britain, we're aiming for a surveillance state, which will make it pathetically easy to turn it into an oppressor state (if we're somehow a surveillance state without being oppressive...).
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Postby bbctol » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:44 pm UTC

Khonsu wrote:Maybe Spain. I want to live somewhere where religious zealots don't even have a damn chance to cause trouble,

Spain might not be the right choice, then.

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Postby KicktheCAN » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:01 am UTC

If I had to actually flee the country then I would go to Canada just because it is right there but either way my ultimate goal is Australia because Australia is awesome. I love the geography of Australia, i admittedly do not know much about it other than that. If I could speak Japanese at that point I would definitely go to Japan instead just because I am such a technophile, that and sushi. And manga.
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Postby Vaniver » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:46 am UTC

I'd go down with the ship, unless another country switched to the philosophical values that the US professes to have.
Last edited by Vaniver on Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:33 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dark Ragnarok » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:59 am UTC

Japan. Always wanted to. the people. The culture. Just about everything. I may have not have been there, but i have to go there once. Besides one of my favorite artists lives there. 2 of them actually.

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Postby ArchangelShrike » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:13 am UTC

NZ or Japan. Of course, I live in Hawaii (which makes NZ an attractive choice) but I'd probably be in the revolution when the time comes marching/fighting for the independence of Hawaii if the shit ever hits the fan. More to say I did, because the probability of such a revolution actually taking place is 0. Really can't see myself living anywhere else other than NZ, because I've spent some time "tending our garden" and I can say that I could picture myself doing that for the rest of my life. Would be sorry to give up the forums, but at least I don't have rap^H^H^H^H friendly people watching my every posts :)

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Postby Aoeniac » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:38 am UTC

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Postby madjo » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:10 am UTC

I'd move to the moon... Nice and quiet up there. No politics (yet)
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Postby fjafjan » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:08 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:I'd go down with the ship, unless another country switched to the philsophical values that the US professes to have.


It's like listening to the republican nominees awnser the question "what do you like least about america" or "what is your biggest misstake"

Quick, dodge the issue!
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Postby Dostoevsky » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:34 pm UTC

i'd go to vancouver. 3rd best standard of life of any city in the world. It's the 39th most expensive city in the world, but that seems like a good deal to me. Plus you can ski and swim in the ocean with less than an hour drive in between. No crime, free health care, legalized "substances". Sounds like a plan to me.

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Postby zenten » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:35 pm UTC

Dostoevsky wrote:i'd go to vancouver. 3rd best standard of life of any city in the world. It's the 39th most expensive city in the world, but that seems like a good deal to me. Plus you can ski and swim in the ocean with less than an hour drive in between. No crime, free health care, legalized "substances". Sounds like a plan to me.


Those aren't legalized by the way, just poorly enforced and very common.

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Postby NinjaArcana » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:37 pm UTC

I find it funny that no one voted that they would go to France, I wonder if it's just long brooding prejudices et cetera...

I would say Japan, not because of their electronics, but probably because of Zen, and possibly their ceramics. If I were leaving a country undergoing a revolution, I would probably need some peace.

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Postby Jesse » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:40 pm UTC

I wouldn't go to France because their society seems constantly on the verge of either giving over entirely to racism, or undergoing a revolution. I want to be involved in neither right now.

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Postby zenten » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:43 pm UTC

NinjaArcana wrote:I would say Japan, not because of their electronics, but probably because of Zen, and possibly their ceramics. If I were leaving a country undergoing a revolution, I would probably need some peace.


I would have problems living in a country with that much institutionalized racism.

As to where to go for me if I had to leave North America (running away to the place I live in seems to be a copout), it would probably be Denmark. Not a bad country, and I have a lot of family there.

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Postby Dostoevsky » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:35 pm UTC

meh, same thing. My girlfriend and I intend to live in Vancouver after graduation until we both learn french well enough, and then move to geneva or zurich.

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Postby gmalivuk » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:36 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:I'd go down with the ship, unless another country switched to the philsophical values that the US professes to have.


While I don't think the US itself is doing a very good job sticking to those values, I agree with you somewhat, at least on the issue of free speech.

If the US got really terrible, and I felt there was truly nothing I could do here to help the situation, then yes, I would leave and go somewhere else (possibly NZ). But for the time being, I'm kind of wary of moving to a country where you can successfully be sued for libel merely by offending someone in print, or where saying other stupid shit can get you thrown in jail, or where it's just expected that you will always be on CCTV, every time you leave your house. (Yes, the US is kind of moving in this latter direction a bit, but to my knowledge it's still not comparable to many other places in the "free" world.)

Dostoevsky wrote:meh, same thing. My girlfriend and I intend to live in Vancouver after graduation until we both learn french well enough, and then move to geneva or zurich.


You do know that Zürich is like 77% German, right?
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Postby jack » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:39 pm UTC

I'm a British fella, and I recently did flee the USA, where I was working on a tech visa.

I'm in Vancouver now, where I've lived for a few years before and I love it here.

British Columbia has a magic triple combo of great outdoors, mostly friendly eco conscious folk that watch out for each other, and in my field abundant job opportunities.

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Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:41 pm UTC

Also near Vancouver. We have an open invitation for the first two nice Americans who reserve my basement for the purposes is moving to a real country.

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Postby Dostoevsky » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:43 pm UTC

really? I guess i should do more research before i pack up and leave. . .


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