If you fled the US, where would you go?

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To where would you flee?

Canada
83
30%
Denmark
1
0%
UK
33
12%
Sweden
28
10%
Norway
12
4%
Finland
4
1%
Netherlands
11
4%
Australia or New Zealand (please specify)
41
15%
France
9
3%
Germany
5
2%
Other (please specify)
52
19%
 
Total votes: 279

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Postby xeno » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:40 am UTC

Costa Rica

decent economy, decent legal system, good health care (important for me!)

plus have you ever been to the beaches? :D

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Postby MikeBabaguh » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:47 am UTC

I have an aunt that moved to New Zealand (north island) recently, so I'd most likely go there.
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Postby Sky Tyrant » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:30 pm UTC

I'd go straight to Brazil where I'd impress the ladies with my amazing English skills.

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Postby dubsola » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:44 pm UTC

TheStranger wrote:If I had to flee the country for some reason I'd go to New Zealand. (not Australia, one of the guys I work with is from NZ and he says that Australians have intercourse with sheep).

He was trying to divert attention away from NZ's national pastime.

Seriously, Oz vs NZ:
Both have incredible geography, although Oz is more varied.
Oz has a better economy.
NZ has a far superior prime minister.
Oz has a less annoying accent.
NZ has pollywog.
Both countries have a lot going for them. I imagine Canada has similar qualities which are desirable (particularly Vancouver which just looks gorgeous). I like cosmopolitan cities, and Melbourne is quite good for that - I don't know NZ well enough to comment.

Gadren wrote:I've heard of some weird laws regarding treatment of their king, leading to Google removing YouTube videos that offend the Thai king.

This is true, it is illegal to insult the Thai royal family. Same in Morocco and various other countries in the world, where royalty is still considered special.

Spain, Portugal and France have incredible culture, food, geographical beauty as well as various downsides. To live there would be interesting but not uncomfortable. Scandanavia is also beautiful, Norwegian and Swedish are easier to learn than Finnish (so I'm told), but I don't feel a deep desire to live in these countries. Maybe I'll reconsider after visiting. I do have some very good friends from Norway and Sweden.

Actually, to be honest - the very best way to answer this question is move around or do some travelling and get a taste of each country. This is why I live in the UK - I can earn enough money to travel every few months, whilst still living quite comfortably.

Countries that I have visited, which I liked, but where I would NOT want to live: Germany, Sardinia, Morocco, Croatia, Slovenia, Singapore.

Countries which I have visited, where I could see myself living for one or more years: Spain, France, the US (heh... funny, given the topic), the Caribbean. These countries have one or more desirable attributes such as food, weather, an affinity or interest in the people, a liberal outlook on life geography, or economy.

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Postby andrewL » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:02 pm UTC

Probably Hong Kong if i had to, that place was great - i'm from ireland btw, and don't think i'll ever really want to leave (at least not permanently.) Ignore what that other person said about Ireland, Ireland's great!

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Postby I_Ate_My_Children » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:30 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:I'd go down with the ship, unless another country switched to the philsophical values that the US professes to have.


What values are that? (I'm not from the US)


eristic wrote:
Phi wrote:There are different places I'd go depending on my fleeing situation:


Off topic:
1) Fleeing from the draft.
Canada, most definitely. I am not going to sacrifice my life/education in order to serve in a war I don't believe in. It's also difficult to go anywhere but Canada/(Middle/South) America in such a case. Ergo, Canada. I hear there's some pretty awesome places up in Vancouver. (Actually, I've been. It's quite nice.)


I think that's selfish of you to enjoy liberties that have been provided, but you wouldn't fight if there were a draft because you don't support a specific war? It's called selfless service. Anyway, I'm going off topic here.

OK. He will go to Canada, but you'll go to war and get Darwin award.

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Postby Vaniver » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:52 pm UTC

I_Ate_My_Children wrote:What values are that? (I'm not from the US)
A belief in the ability of any individual to elevate themselves through their own hard work and talents; the bet of the New Colossus, that we should not select by race, creed, social status, or other distinguishing factor, but let all have a chance at competition. These articles go into a bit more depth.
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Postby Robin S » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:06 am UTC

Switzerland sounds kind of cool.
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Norway

Postby hynder » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:27 am UTC

I said I would emigrate to Norway because I have family, although they have no idea I exist probably, there and I think it is as good as place as any. Also I like the cold so why not. It would have to be a lot for me to move from this place of Freedom.

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Postby pollywog » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:28 am UTC

Nyarlathotep wrote:I'm really sensitive to cold weather. 20 can be cold to me.

on the other hand it sounds really lovely. and maybe I could get used to the cold.


Go to the far north. Northland, the Bay of Islands (I just realised what a useless name that was. Come to NZ, we've got the least imaginative place names in the world!), anything above Auckland.

dubsola wrote:Seriously, Oz vs NZ:
Both have incredible geography, although Oz is more varied.
Oz has a better economy.
NZ has a far superior prime minister.
Oz has a less annoying accent.
NZ has pollywog.
Both countries have a lot going for them. I imagine Canada has similar qualities which are desirable (particularly Vancouver which just looks gorgeous). I like cosmopolitan cities, and Melbourne is quite good for that - I don't know NZ well enough to comment.


NZ has way better geography. We have fiords man. Fiords. And no desert.

I'll concede the economy point. And we do have a better Prime minister (Although that was decided by who would I least like to meet in a dark alleyway, standard voting criteria.)

Accent thing is a matter of opinion. And I find that Aussie accents change. I've heard ones that I like, and ones that are really really annoying.

Actually, NZ does not have many pollywogs. Quite a few of the native frogs have declined a lot, and many of those were born frogs without going through a tadpole stage.

If you're looking for cosmopolitan, there's no place more lively than crowded Waikikamukau. Situated in the middle of Kaaore he Rauhiitanga, it has many nightclubs and bars, and a thriving fashion scene.

Seriously, come to New Zealand. Please.
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Postby blob » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:47 am UTC

I'm not American, but if I had to flee somewhere I'd give Denmark serious consideration. You get to learn a new language, but most of them speak English so the transition is easier. I have no Danish ancestry (that I know of) but I assume they're not racist enough to mind, and I like the food :D

As for visas, I'm assuming that in a case of genuine fleeing you can apply for asylum.
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Postby dubsola » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:29 pm UTC

Nyarlathotep wrote:I'm really sensitive to cold weather. 20 can be cold to me.

Celcius?!

pollywog wrote:NZ has way better geography. We have fiords man. Fiords. And no desert.

I like the desert! You do have fjords, which I sometimes pine for, but you don't have Ayres Rock, or Kakadu. Seriously though - both countries have awesome geography, although I conceed you win in the mountain stakes.

I'll concede the economy point. And we do have a better Prime minister (Although that was decided by who would I least like to meet in a dark alleyway, standard voting criteria.)

Erm... didn't quite understand this. You mean the people who voted for her are very conservative or anti-gay?

Accent thing is a matter of opinion. And I find that Aussie accents change. I've heard ones that I like, and ones that are really really annoying.

Yeah, that's true. I am only joking.

Actually, NZ does not have many pollywogs.

You're like the highlander.

If you're looking for cosmopolitan, there's no place more lively than crowded Waikikamukau. Situated in the middle of Kaaore he Rauhiitanga, it has many nightclubs and bars, and a thriving fashion scene.

I can't find that on the map... oh yeah. Wikipedia is telling me why! :oops:

For serious - I would like to visit NZ, but since I'm on the other side of the world, it makes more sense to visit the crazy countries that are nearby, for a change.

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Postby Amicitia » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:43 pm UTC

India is still pretty awesome. Much of it is modernized, but at the same time, you can still get a chef and butler on the cheap. :D
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Re: Norway

Postby fjafjan » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:54 pm UTC

hynder wrote:I said I would emigrate to Norway because I have family, although they have no idea I exist probably, there and I think it is as good as place as any. Also I like the cold so why not. It would have to be a lot for me to move from this place of Freedom.

to the bastion of oppression that is norway.
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Postby pollywog » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:30 pm UTC

dubsola wrote:
I'll concede the economy point. And we do have a better Prime minister (Although that was decided by who would I least like to meet in a dark alleyway, standard voting criteria.)

Erm... didn't quite understand this. You mean the people who voted for her are very conservative or anti-gay?


No, if I was to walk into a dark alleyway, and see a person standing there (who is about to mug me), I would rather it was John than Helen. She's tougher than me. He's just a bespectacled dwarf.


You're like the highlander.


Now I don't understand this.

In other news, us Kiwis are beating you Brits at the "migrate to Australia game". First year ever that there are more New Zealanders fleeing to Australia than there are British.
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Postby Gigglez » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:42 pm UTC

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Aetre wrote:Other: Japan.


It's, uhh, actually not that good.

Seriously, you don't want to come to Japan. the language is next to impossible, and you will always, always, always and forever be treated like a total and complete outsider. I'm speaking from experience here. Japan is very nice as long as you're not actually in the country.


I don't mean to go off topic, but i'd like to add a complete opposite view on this. Japanese isn't close to impossible, just takes a while to learn. Though i'll agree the mountains of kanji make it very difficult; but if you think of all the grammar rules and such for the english language and the different variations in slang and accents, they're probably the same in difficulty.

Also, I don't know what part of Japan you live in/visited but I have a good friend that goes every summer and he says he doesn't get treated worse then anyone else because he's a gaijin. I've specifically asked him how they treat gaijins.

Oh and a fun side note for those that are reading this, don't call yourself a gaijin. It's a ruder form of meaning outsider (literally "alien"). There is a longer form but I can't remember it, sorry. You'll also be treated better if you know how to be polite. If for whatever reason you go over there without knowing Japanese, just remember "sumimasen" which means a variety of different things: sorry, excuse me etc.

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby kcr » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:44 pm UTC

Probably Canada. It's closest. But Iceland is supposed to be an awesome country, so ... maybe. I'm hoping fleeing the US won't ever be necessary, really.

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Skyness » Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:39 am UTC

Well, as I'm actually considering fleeing, at least for a while, I picked UK first. Why? I don't speak any other languages well (I could brush up on my German and my Welsh). And, because Wales is part of the UK (see previous sentence re: Welsh). Wales is totally cool. The people are friendly, there are still a lot of native Welsh speakers, there are lots of cool ruined castles and small menhir and stone circles.

As I've worked for the feds (as a contractor, but they still have my fingerprints, damn it!), and I don't want to be "first against the wall when the revolution comes" (Hitchhiker's Guide, book), I could always burn off my prints (like in Men in Black I). But it would hurt less to leave. Assuming I could. Anyone ever read The Handmaid's Tale? Provacative, believable, and terrifying.

But I like the things folks are saying about Sweden, Finland, and I've heard that Iceland is great (okay, it's cold and gets kind of dark) and the natives are all really gorgeous, but I doubt they have a liberal immigration policy. <sigh>

And none of these places want to give you a work visa. I've been looking that up. But, you could always work at a resort as housekeeping, or pick fruit.

I say, travel the world and make a living by blogging. AT least, that's what I'm going to try. (Oh great, now everyone will copy me....)j

But then, maybe GW Bush won't actually pull a military law sort of thing to stay in power.
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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby une see » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:23 am UTC

Other: I'd probably go to China, since I have relatives there, and I'm pretty fluent in Chinese.

Although, depending on the situation which is causing me to flee the US...maybe China wouldn't be the best place to flee to. :\

Okay, if China is not a feasible option...I'd go to the UK because I'd probably be fleeing the US due to war or some other similar reason, and the UK is tenacious. (I'm thinking about WWII here...as far as I know, they never fell to Germany, right?)
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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby bbctol » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:32 am UTC

une see wrote:Other: I'd probably go to China, since I have relatives there, and I'm pretty fluent in Chinese.

Although, depending on the situation which is causing me to flee the US...maybe China wouldn't be the best place to flee to. :\

Okay, if China is not a feasible option...I'd go to the UK because I'd probably be fleeing the US due to war or some other similar reason, and the UK is tenacious. (I'm thinking about WWII here...as far as I know, they never fell to Germany, right?)


They would have, if Hitler wasn't a fscking IDIOT.

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Vaniver » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:34 am UTC

bbctol wrote:They would have, if Hitler wasn't a fscking RACIST.
Fixed.
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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby bbctol » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:54 am UTC

Well, he was that too. But honestly, he could have taken England over easily, had he listened to all of his brilliant generals and just COMMON SENSE.

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby TravelingKate » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:47 am UTC

this is actually something i've been looking into quite seriously over the past few years.

ireland was big on my list for a very long time - but i'm becoming indifferent.

canada, france and england are the biggies.

The main reason i like canada is that is is close to the US - close to family. but if our boarders ever actually full out close, that wont matter too much.

england is expensive. but has really good health care...

i like france the most as far as government benefits and the way of life, but unfortunately, i do not speak french.

i'm a registered nurse, so i need to pass the board exams for the country i choose and i think knowing the language would be key...

who knows....

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Re:

Postby dubsola » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:26 am UTC

pollywog wrote:
You're like the highlander.

Now I don't understand this. In other news, us Kiwis are beating you Brits at the "migrate to Australia game". First year ever that there are more New Zealanders fleeing to Australia than there are British.

"There can be only one (pollywog)".

Why are so many New Zealanders migrating to Australia, and what is the visa situation for that?

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Alegis` » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:05 am UTC

I'm fleeing TO the US after my studies.

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby cathrl » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:12 pm UTC

I'm in the UK, but if I had to leave I'd definitely go somewhere else that spoke English. I speak French fluently, I spent 6 months in France, I have no problems whatsoever communicating...and it's not the same. I really missed not speaking English. I couldn't handle living in another language potentially forever, no matter how well I spoke it.

Though to whoever it was that said they were worried about nobody being able to read their stories in a country which wasn't English-speaking - I don't think anyone who reads my fanfic is in the same country as me now. Just post on the internet to an international readership.

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Sawta » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:29 pm UTC

This topic is actually something is something that I've been considering quite intensely for a good six months now. If the candidate whom I believe is going to win (in the up coming presidential elections), I really can't see a reasonable alternative any more.

I would have chosen Japan, but I think the language barrier is too great for me to get over (presently) to make a decent living if T moved there. I also do have some apprehension towards embracing their government’s policies.

My next choice was Canada, nice and close, good health care system, English speaking (besides the French areas, of course, but I like French and it wouldn't be too difficult to adapt to, as I studied it in high school). This changed after hearing about this plan between America, Mexico and Canada to form a Northern Alliance. I was unsure how safe I will be from the American government, should that plan go through (if it hasn't already).

I ended up choosing England for several reasons: I don't know a whole lot about Northern Europe and I can see the same problems there as I had with Japan (Language barriers and what have you). A large amount of my ancestors were English, so I do feel a natural urge to return there. Places like Australia can get exceedingly hot (In comparison to NE America, at least) and I've heard that they have very ridged censorship policies for media like cd's.

As ridiculous as it may sound, part of me also chose England because it is an island country and if there was ever a zombie like outbreak, there would be a much smaller chance of invasions from other countries; (yes, I am serious)

One of the very few negatives that I came up with for moving to England was this

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Gadren » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:28 pm UTC

What about the recent surveillance-state-like developments in the UK, in the name of fighting terror? To me, the UK feels like it's becoming "US lite."

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Rilian » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:34 pm UTC

I'd go somewhere where unregulated home-schooling is allowed. That's my main reason for staying in Texas/Oklahoma right now. Most other states in US require stupid crap like grades, curricula, testing, and reporting to the government in general.
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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Vaniver » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:08 am UTC

This changed after hearing about this plan between America, Mexico and Canada to form a Northern Alliance. I was unsure how safe I will be from the American government, should that plan go through (if it hasn't already).
That plan is pretty much hearsay.
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Re: Re:

Postby pollywog » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:48 am UTC

dubsola wrote:"There can be only one (pollywog)".

Why are so many New Zealanders migrating to Australia, and what is the visa situation for that?


Wikifriend helps me again. Never heard of Highlander before.

Lots of Kiwis are fleeing because of economic reasons. They get paid more over there, and apparently it's cheaper to live there. I don't know the visa sit.
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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby bcdm » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:58 am UTC

Sawta wrote:
My next choice was Canada, nice and close, good health care system, English speaking (besides the French areas, of course, but I like French and it wouldn't be too difficult to adapt to, as I studied it in high school). This changed after hearing about this plan between America, Mexico and Canada to form a Northern Alliance. I was unsure how safe I will be from the American government, should that plan go through (if it hasn't already).


Canada is not about to give up that much sovereignty any time soon. Canadian self-definition is basically "not American". NAFTA has lessened restrictions on trade (which has been a fiasco), and we do share some similarities with the States, but I would predict that we won't see a united North America in my lifetime.

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Re: Re:

Postby dubsola » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:00 am UTC

pollywog wrote:Lots of Kiwis are fleeing because of economic reasons. They get paid more over there [in Australia], and apparently it's cheaper to live there. I don't know the visa sit.
I know the economy is better in Aus, but it doesn't make sense that it's cheaper to live - surely the higher wages translate to higher rent / expenses? Perth, for example, is in a bit of a pickle at the moment. The resources boom has created a lot of high-paying jobs, and the population has gone up. Consequently, it is hard to find rental accommodation, and it is very expensive. Housing prices are inflated. Food is expensive, and it is hard to find hospitality workers - so the service in restaurants etc is terrible. It doesn't make sense that it would be cheaper to live in Aus.

Another thing - a lot of Antipodeans (fancy word for Australians, Kiwis and South Africans) move to the UK to work - they can get a two year working visa, and if they are professionals, earn a lot of money and get good experience in their industries, as well as being able to travel and experience different cultures (although a lot of people neglect this aspect, which is a shame if you ask me).

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Jack21222 » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:42 pm UTC

I'd flee to a liberalized Middle Eastern country, such as UAE, Oman, Jordan, or Lebanon. That's mainly because I'm a Middle Eastern studies major.
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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Nath » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:21 am UTC

Jack21222 wrote:I'd flee to a liberalized Middle Eastern country, such as UAE, Oman, Jordan, or Lebanon. That's mainly because I'm a Middle Eastern studies major.

Those are good places to spend a few years, but you will never blend in. People go there, work for a while, and go home.

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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby UmbralRaptor » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:47 am UTC

N/A. 1) I know very little of any language besides English, 2) The US's extremely long reach/worldwide presence, 3) Extradition treaties, 4) more exotic locations (Antarctica, Luna, Mars, etc.) are very difficult-impossible to reach, and would require resources that would make you oddly easy to find/get, and 5) To truly hide, it may be necessary to live partially or fully off the grid. This would involve substantial sacrifices in communications/connectivity. Depending on where you choose, this may also limit access to electricity and running water.
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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Xyliana » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:23 pm UTC

I "fled" the US about 8 years ago. Moved to England for college and ended up working in London, Glasgow, bit in Sweden, some in Iceland and then returned to the States. I think in the beginning there is that thrill of being in a new country. Everyone seems nice, the structure of government seems better and you start to be able to spot Americans in the streets without even hearing them speak...

Then it tends to feel less and less like an Utopia. I returned to the States to work in Virginia (was very southern to me seeing I was originally from the North. I thought the people were friendly, that everything was cheaper and generally found it to be a nice quaint place to stay.

Returned to England to the yobs, the townies and hooded youths causing trouble in the streets. The glitter shirt women in the Yates Pub glassing other girls and men pissing in the town centre.

Long story short, I think anytime you go to a new country you get the big eyed ooooo's and ahhhs which is always nice but in the time the grass is not the same colour but not that far off.

I say if you have the opportunity go for it, traveling and living in foreign countries might be a bit of hassle to sort visas, I say I actually _like_ parts of the States more when I visit back home now.

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eryanv
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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby eryanv » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:09 pm UTC

If I was leaving the country for somewhere on my own accord, I'd probably head to Vancouver. Seems to be a fairly promising locale for tech related jobs and has a numerous asian restaurants. And if I ever wanted to go back to the country I was born in, it wouldn't be too difficult or expensive.

However if I were leaving in some sort of exodus, where it's imaginable a significant portion of the population might flee to Canada, I'd probably opt for Singapore. Sure the laws are fairly strict and the government is essentially a benevolent dictatorship, but at least they've got it together as a nation. Education is good (if you believe in TIMSS), opportunity for foreign talent is high, and for the most part people are friendly.

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ascendingPig
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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby ascendingPig » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:35 pm UTC

I would go to UK. I speak the language and Canada is awful dull.
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Hexadecimator
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Re: If you fled the US, where would you go?

Postby Hexadecimator » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:50 am UTC

I'll flee to Ireland, nice people, good food, no languge barrier beyond the accent (which can be quite pronounced under the influence of Guinness), and did I mention the nice people? Now, to research the visa situation...
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