Modern Faustian Bargain

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Dr34m(4+(h3r
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Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:25 am UTC

So, here are the premises:

1. It will be possible to simulate human level intelligence in our lifetimes
2. It will be possible to use brain scanning technology to clone the patterns of conscious personality that compose a human being within our lifetimes
3. Regulation regarding this will move more slowly than the technologies themselves and/or the technology will prove difficult to police in practice

Given this, what's to stop a very desperate person from making a bargain to allow the cloning of their consciousness in exchange for money/favors/etc?

And what would be the most you would personally pay to someone who made you this offer?

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby ucim » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:17 am UTC

Even if you are cloned, the clone is not you. You gain no benefit from it. Why would you do it?

An observation - it seems reasonable that given the premises, it will also be possible to edit the patterns of conscious personality before implanting it into an AI. The edits could be malicious. Given that (and the above), why would anybody even go near such a device?

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:25 am UTC

Are negative values acceptable? That is, is this considering both the case of "selling my consciousness template for money" and "I will use this tech to buy immortality"? I would find it highly likely that the marketing around such a device would be oriented towards users *paying* money to have their consciousnesses cloned, rather than needing to be enticed into it with promises of compensation.

Assuming those premises, why would the owner of such a device need someone to "allow" their consciousness to be cloned at all? Why not create new personalities from scratch, or fork their own consciousness thousands of times and introduce an exciting new era in intellectual property law? Presumably the primary limitation would be the cost of the equipment - which, again, raises the question of why the owners of such capital would need to pay people for the chance at such a rare thing in the first place. Or, conversely, if it's inexpensive and freely available, why they'd be *willing* to.
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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:28 pm UTC

ucim wrote:Even if you are cloned, the clone is not you. You gain no benefit from it. Why would you do it?

An observation - it seems reasonable that given the premises, it will also be possible to edit the patterns of conscious personality before implanting it into an AI. The edits could be malicious. Given that (and the above), why would anybody even go near such a device?

Jose


I would get money, favors, etc. The clone might not be me, but if there are n clones, the odds of me being the original are 1/n, which means the average person would be living their life in a state of constant terror, especially if they saw or thought they saw evidence of being in a simulation.

An observation - it seems reasonable that given the premises, it will also be possible to edit the patterns of conscious personality before implanting it into an AI. The edits could be malicious. Given that (and the above), why would anybody even go near such a device?


That's the point. That's what makes it a Faustian bargian. Durrrr.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:34 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Are negative values acceptable? That is, is this considering both the case of "selling my consciousness template for money" and "I will use this tech to buy immortality"? I would find it highly likely that the marketing around such a device would be oriented towards users *paying* money to have their consciousnesses cloned, rather than needing to be enticed into it with promises of compensation.

Assuming those premises, why would the owner of such a device need someone to "allow" their consciousness to be cloned at all? Why not create new personalities from scratch, or fork their own consciousness thousands of times and introduce an exciting new era in intellectual property law? Presumably the primary limitation would be the cost of the equipment - which, again, raises the question of why the owners of such capital would need to pay people for the chance at such a rare thing in the first place. Or, conversely, if it's inexpensive and freely available, why they'd be *willing* to.


I don't think you understand the scenario. Someone shifty looking shows up. They say, "I want your consciousness data. I won't tell you why. I'll pay you $x dollars for it, to do whatever I want with it, no questions asked."

It has nothing to do with marketing or the market. It has to do with common sense intuition about the meaning of these actions in this context. It might be less pleasant, for instance, to torture a clone of yourself, than of some famous person, or homeless person or other disliked type of person. Also, again, common sense says that there are issues of trust here, and of divergent application. What someone would use such technology for with their own person might be different than what they would use it for with someone else.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Chen » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:59 pm UTC

Wouldn't this be like selling a kidney on the black market, though with no detrimental impact to you? You're basically selling something you have an unlimited amount of. Sorta like selling a picture of yourself. I'd be wary of fraud that might be able to be used, but presumably if such technology was around there'd already be laws on how you'd need to identify yourself (say something biometric that a consciousness scan wouldn't have).

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:34 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Wouldn't this be like selling a kidney on the black market, though with no detrimental impact to you? You're basically selling something you have an unlimited amount of. Sorta like selling a picture of yourself. I'd be wary of fraud that might be able to be used, but presumably if such technology was around there'd already be laws on how you'd need to identify yourself (say something biometric that a consciousness scan wouldn't have).


The risk is initially psychological. The problem is that as soon as it becomes the case that you might have made such a deal, it becomes astronomically more likely that you're a cloned consciousness than the original, especially since the risk isn't necessarily n/(n+1), but may be (n^x)/((n^x+1) due to possible runaway duplication (though more probably logarithmic than exponential).

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Mutex » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:48 pm UTC

Would the clone also have your memory? If nothing else, you'd have to change all your email passwords after the procedure.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby ucim » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:51 pm UTC

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote: They say, "I want your consciousness data. I won't tell you why. I'll pay you $x dollars for it, to do whatever I want with it, no questions asked."
This happens every time you go on the internet. The Faustianness of this bargain is beginning to become apparent.

Sadly, people don't learn from their mistakes.

Further, how is your money and property distributed? How are your personal relationships resolved?

Your clone going on a date with her clone, does not constitute you going on a date with her.

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:but if there are n clones, the odds of me being the original are 1/n

No, the odds of you being the original are unity, and easily testable.

(Oh, and you can edit your last post to include new content rather than repeat-posting directly beneath it. It's greatly preferred.)

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:58 pm UTC

ucim wrote:No, the odds of you being the original are unity, and easily testable.


Elaborate.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:03 pm UTC

So far, the responses I'm getting seem to consist of two things:

1. An inability to understand/accept the premise
2. Non-sequitur responses about things tangentially related to the premise.

I gave a specific and, potentially, concrete description of a scenario. I'm waiting for responses in those terms.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Chen » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:26 pm UTC

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:The risk is initially psychological. The problem is that as soon as it becomes the case that you might have made such a deal, it becomes astronomically more likely that you're a cloned consciousness than the original, especially since the risk isn't necessarily n/(n+1), but may be (n^x)/((n^x+1) due to possible runaway duplication (though more probably logarithmic than exponential).


You mention nothing about cloning bodies here. It should be trivially easy to determine a cloned consciousness from a "real" person if one has a body and the other does not. Now, once you've transferred your consciousness (not cloned but moved) into a computer, at that point it becomes pretty much impossible to determine the differences between the "original" and any duplicates. There may not be a meaningful distinction between them at this point anyways.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:40 pm UTC

Internally, you the individual can't determine which conscious entity you are. It may be trivial for others, somewhere, to determine that. I don't think that's true. I think it's too easy to forge conscious experience once you have complete control over the consciousness of other people.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Mutex » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:47 pm UTC

Are you implying the clone in the computer would be living in a virtual world identical to Earth? Otherwise, seems like it would be pretty easy to tell.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby SDK » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:09 pm UTC

I'm confused as to why this is even an issue. I am a consciousness. There are billions of other consciousnesses out there. Then a few more are created. I am still a consciousness. Those that were created are similar to me, perhaps more similar than others, but I am still me, and they are someone else. Even if you can't distinguish them from me based on their/my experience prior to a certain day, we've diverged beyond that and will continue to diverge as we continue into the future.

As far as the questions in your OP, the answer to the first is "nothing". Is that a problem?
The answer to the second is "why would I want someone else's consciousness?".
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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:26 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:Are you implying the clone in the computer would be living in a virtual world identical to Earth? Otherwise, seems like it would be pretty easy to tell.


Sorry, that was an unstated premise. I probably should have stated it, huh?

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Zamfir » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:32 pm UTC

This is basically like selling a child into slavery? You create a new person (or something techno-magical that rather resembles a new person), then you sell it off.

It seems rather straightforward: no, you shouldn't be a buyer or a seller. And people who do anyway should go to to jail?

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby cphite » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:01 pm UTC

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:So, here are the premises:

1. It will be possible to simulate human level intelligence in our lifetimes
2. It will be possible to use brain scanning technology to clone the patterns of conscious personality that compose a human being within our lifetimes
3. Regulation regarding this will move more slowly than the technologies themselves and/or the technology will prove difficult to police in practice

Given this, what's to stop a very desperate person from making a bargain to allow the cloning of their consciousness in exchange for money/favors/etc?

And what would be the most you would personally pay to someone who made you this offer?


The most I would pay for this? Zero.

I have no need for another me. The clone wouldn't be me, it would be a new consciousness that just happens to be identical to me, so it's not like I can really use this to extend my own lifespan. And I can't really think of a reason to have another me while I'm still alive.

I can't imagine much of a market for this sort of thing that doesn't amount to some sort of virtual slavery; and if that's the case, why would the people setting it up pay anyone for the right to copy them? More likely, they'd grab and coerce a few specific people, make some clones of those people, twerk those clones to be exactly what they really need, and then make unlimited copies. Why waste time and money copying distinct people when you can make predictable copies?

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:07 pm UTC

cphite wrote:
Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:So, here are the premises:

1. It will be possible to simulate human level intelligence in our lifetimes
2. It will be possible to use brain scanning technology to clone the patterns of conscious personality that compose a human being within our lifetimes
3. Regulation regarding this will move more slowly than the technologies themselves and/or the technology will prove difficult to police in practice

Given this, what's to stop a very desperate person from making a bargain to allow the cloning of their consciousness in exchange for money/favors/etc?

And what would be the most you would personally pay to someone who made you this offer?


The most I would pay for this? Zero.

I have no need for another me. The clone wouldn't be me, it would be a new consciousness that just happens to be identical to me, so it's not like I can really use this to extend my own lifespan. And I can't really think of a reason to have another me while I'm still alive.


That's backwards

I can't imagine much of a market for this sort of thing that doesn't amount to some sort of virtual slavery; and if that's the case, why would the people setting it up pay anyone for the right to copy them? More likely, they'd grab and coerce a few specific people, make some clones of those people, twerk those clones to be exactly what they really need, and then make unlimited copies. Why waste time and money copying distinct people when you can make predictable copies?


I don't think people are that modular or plastic.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:08 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:This is basically like selling a child into slavery? You create a new person (or something techno-magical that rather resembles a new person), then you sell it off.


Right

It seems rather straightforward: no, you shouldn't be a buyer or a seller. And people who do anyway should go to to jail?


I'm not asking about the morals. I'm asking about who is willing to pay me money to torture a version of me for eternity.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby speising » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:09 pm UTC

It is not at all clear that the copy could be modified. It could be a black box, pretty much like trained neural networks are, or the products of genetic optimization algorithms.
It works, and you can inspect every bit of it, but you don't understand how to change it the way you want it.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Zamfir » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:44 pm UTC

I'm not asking about the morals. I'm asking about who is willing to pay me money to torture a version of me for eternity.

Based on the real-world, there are plenty of people willing to pay for slaves.

The typical reason seems to be to put the slaves to work, not to torture them. As in, the work might be effectively torture, but the slave master's interest is primarily the work, not the torture. Though some amount of sadism will often creep into such a relation, people will often abuse slaves in their power just because they can, because it is pleasant to exercise such power of others.

I would expect that this dynamic carries over to our hypothetical techno-slaves.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby morriswalters » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:50 pm UTC

I'm not asking about the morals. I'm asking about who is willing to pay me money to torture a version of me for eternity.
Nobody. Why would they? Are you special in some way? Do you have some skill set that would make it worthwhile do do something that would be expensive in terms of the technology? Serial killers need only to cruise the streets to get victims to torture. Morals aside, tell me about the market forces that would drive that type of transaction.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby ucim » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:59 pm UTC

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:
ucim wrote:No, the odds of you being the original are unity, and easily testable.
Elaborate.
You were neither specific nor concrete in your scenario, so I had to make a few assumptions, among them that the "consciousness" would be "uploaded" into some kind of computer, as opposed to into the existing mind of another human, and that that computer (and its consciousness) would exist in the same world as the original. Clearly the original has an organic body, and the clone does not. The one with the organic body is the original.

If you are envisioning some other scenario, describe it.

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:Given this, what's to stop a very desperate person from making a bargain to allow the cloning of their consciousness in exchange for money/favors/etc?
By premise 3, nothing except its pointlessness. Even if I wanted a slave, I don't necessarily want any particular consciousness embedded in it, except perhaps that it be docile and obedient.
Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:And what would be the most you would personally pay to someone who made you this offer?
Nothing. I don't see any use for somebody's consciousness.

Governments otoh might find it useful to predict crime before it happens, and to prosecute it afterwards. If you could convince a jury that the clone would have done something bad, and that something bad happens, you could convince them that the original did that something bad.

Or will in the future.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:31 pm UTC

ucim wrote:Clearly the original has an organic body, and the clone does not. The one with the organic body is the original.


Right. Now how do you discern this, proving at the same time that your perception is sound.

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:Even if I wanted a slave, I don't necessarily want any particular consciousness embedded in it, except perhaps that it be docile and obedient.


Ok, so that's your answer. But someone else might want a specific personality. Or even just a personality of any kind.

Governments otoh might find it useful to predict crime before it happens, and to prosecute it afterwards. If you could convince a jury that the clone would have done something bad, and that something bad happens, you could convince them that the original did that something bad.

Or will in the future.

Jose


One hopes that governments are bound by ethical standards which prevent such misuses of technology.

morriswalters wrote:Morals aside, tell me about the market forces that would drive that type of transaction.


It's fairly common for great artists to live and die unappreciated and in crushing poverty. Art is not well handled by market forces. Additionally, artists are sensitive. You can torture them in creative ways. If an artist had access to certain resources in life, they may be able to achieve success at a greater level, or even make works of art they otherwise could not.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:32 pm UTC

I think the angle Dreamhacker here is going for is this:

Imagine that you discover that you are living in a simulation, and furthermore, that you are not the original "you", but a clone of someone else who is still living in the real world outside the simulation (or at least, who went on living for some time after you were copied from them), reaping rewards in exchange for the simulation-runner(s) getting the copy of them that is you, and being able to subject you (the copy in the virtual world) to whatever they like, which they may have already been doing; innumerable things in the world you find yourself in may have been inflicted upon you intentionally by the simulation-runners and not just natural happenstance.

You and the person who went on living in meatspace are forks of the same person, and when the decision to make you, the clone, was made, you made that decision as much as the meat fork did, because at that time you were the same person; you might even remember making it, if that memory hasn't been deleted. Do you, the clone in virtual space, regret that decision now? What difference in the deal could possibly change your mind about whether or not you regret it?

(Alternately: you remember having made that decision, and so far as you can tell you are still the meatspace fork, but are you really? And do you regret that decision just because of that uncertainty, and what might change your mind about that regret?)
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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Mutex » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:49 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Dreamhacker

OT but it's Dreamcatcher I believe.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:52 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Dreamhacker

OT but it's Dreamcatcher I believe.

I believe you are correct. Sorry DC.
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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby ucim » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:17 pm UTC

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:Now how do you discern [that I'm the one with(out) the organic body], proving at the same time that your perception is sound.
It is not possible to prove that one's perception is sound. It's an axiom. Nonetheless, "if you prick me, do I not bleed?" (This of course does not apply to a simulated clone in a simulated world, but I don't think that's what you were going for.)

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:One hopes that governments are bound by ethical standards which prevent such misuses of technology.
Certainly present day governments have ethical standards. The United States in particular shows extremely high ethics from its Supreme Leader. I don't see how anything can go wrong.

Pfhorrest wrote:...You and the person who went on living in meatspace are forks of the same person, and when the decision to make you, the clone, was made, you made that decision as much as the meat fork did, because at that time you were the same person; [...] Do you, the clone in virtual space, regret that decision now? [...]
Yes, much as I would regret the decision (which my child did not share) to sell my child into slavery. Yet that has happened and probably continues to happen worldwide.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby morriswalters » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:26 pm UTC

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:It's fairly common for great artists to live and die unappreciated and in crushing poverty. Art is not well handled by market forces. Additionally, artists are sensitive. You can torture them in creative ways. If an artist had access to certain resources in life, they may be able to achieve success at a greater level, or even make works of art they otherwise could not.
The limiting factor on art is the audiences ability to buy it. Not the artist, and his/her ability to produce it. I still don't see a market.

And if the current speculation is correct not only are you simulating a mind, but a world filled with minds so convincing that you can't know if they are real. Seems fairly ridiculous and circular to import a mind to a world you've already filled.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:29 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:It's fairly common for great artists to live and die unappreciated and in crushing poverty. Art is not well handled by market forces. Additionally, artists are sensitive. You can torture them in creative ways. If an artist had access to certain resources in life, they may be able to achieve success at a greater level, or even make works of art they otherwise could not.
The limiting factor on art is the audiences ability to buy it. Not the artist, and his/her ability to produce it. I still don't see a market.

And if the current speculation is correct not only are you simulating a mind, but a world filled with minds so convincing that you can't know if they are real. Seems fairly ridiculous and circular to import a mind to a world you've already filled.


There's no need to fill it. 95% of interactions are shallow enough that they don't require any complexity, and of the remaining 5%, everything that came before is documented in a person's mind already. Some interpolation and inference just needs to happen and then you can give them the subjective experience of an entire life up to the point of cloning without anything like advanced AI coming into the picture. And I don't trust your knowledge of economics, especially as they apply to practical and not stupid theoretical concerns. That's true I think of almost everyone but especially of you.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:14 pm UTC

ucim wrote:Yes, much as I would regret the decision (which my child did not share) to sell my child into slavery. Yet that has happened and probably continues to happen worldwide.

I'm not sure if you meant for that to be an analogy, but it doesn't seem analogous to me if I understand Dreamcatcher's scenario correctly. For it to be analogous, you would be the child, but you would share all of your parent's memories, including the decision to sell you (once born) into slavery, and you yourself wouldn't be able to tell whether you were the child or the parent. More like a Star Trek transporter clone than a natural child.

(Which actually seems like it makes for a basically equivalent dilemma without invoking virtual reality or anything. Say Star Trek transporters exist, and someone makes you a deal: transport from point A to point B but allowing a transporter "accident" to make a copy reappear back at point A as though the transport failed, and the you who arrives at point B will be paid handsomely, while the copy at point A is now a slave to the person they, you, made the deal with.)
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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby morriswalters » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:29 pm UTC

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:There's no need to fill it. 95% of interactions are shallow enough that they don't require any complexity, and of the remaining 5%, everything that came before is documented in a person's mind already. Some interpolation and inference just needs to happen and then you can give them the subjective experience of an entire life up to the point of cloning without anything like advanced AI coming into the picture. And I don't trust your knowledge of economics, especially as they apply to practical and not stupid theoretical concerns. That's true I think of almost everyone but especially of you
I could see why you might think that. But I will defer to the man who painted the only original art I own. He told me that Gallery exposure sold paintings and that a lot of artists were starving(as if) because they couldn't get exposure. And if I can't understand the economics it seems pointless to continue, because it is the only thing that matters.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:57 pm UTC

I meant "artist" in a broader sense than that.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby morriswalters » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:22 am UTC

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:I meant "artist" in a broader sense than that.
Make it mean whatever suits you.

I thought of Andy Serkis while I was posting this.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby ucim » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:45 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I'm not sure if you meant for that to be an analogy, but it doesn't seem analogous to me...
It wasn't an analogy, but a different (and simpler) scenario where the key elements are close enough. Certainly the one sold into slavery regrets the decision, just like the person who took a flight on a doomed airplane would. (It however doesn't make the decision wrong, just unfortunate.) Whether or not the one making the decision is the "same" as the one experiencing it isn't all that important, if we already have examples of the latter.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Leovan » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:52 am UTC

Having a copy of myself for my own use would be quite useful. Basically an AI that I can trust as much as I would trust myself, who doesn't need to sleep, and can move around cyberspace easily. I also wouldn't mind being able to focus on programming and learning a new environment while the old me takes care of meatspace business. I might miss physical interactions but if this is a thing I'm sure there will be digital alternatives.
As for selling myself off to slavery or worse, I agree it would be like selling your child. In essence your child is just a copy of half your DNA. Doesn't even have your memories or personality. I would be making the conscious decision to sell and torture myself and I'm not entirely comfortable with that. I like myself, I don't want to end up like that.
Other people might see it more as donating your sperm/egg, knowing the resulting child will be a slave. You didn't really give up anything big, and they would have found someone else so why not?

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Chen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:42 am UTC

Dr34m(4+(h3r wrote:There's no need to fill it. 95% of interactions are shallow enough that they don't require any complexity, and of the remaining 5%, everything that came before is documented in a person's mind already. Some interpolation and inference just needs to happen and then you can give them the subjective experience of an entire life up to the point of cloning without anything like advanced AI coming into the picture. And I don't trust your knowledge of economics, especially as they apply to practical and not stupid theoretical concerns. That's true I think of almost everyone but especially of you.


Where are you pulling your numbers from? And do you have any justification for them? Because building a virtual world for these consciousnesses to be in so that they don't realize they are would be a ridiculous undertaking. Now granted so would scanning someone's brain and replicating their consciousness but that one was at least presented as a premise.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby Dr34m(4+(h3r » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:55 am UTC

They're guesstimates based on nothing.

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Re: Modern Faustian Bargain

Postby SuicideJunkie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:01 pm UTC

Leovan wrote:As for selling myself off to slavery or worse, I agree it would be like selling your child. In essence your child is just a copy of half your DNA. Doesn't even have your memories or personality. I would be making the conscious decision to sell and torture myself and I'm not entirely comfortable with that. I like myself, I don't want to end up like that.
Other people might see it more as donating your sperm/egg, knowing the resulting child will be a slave. You didn't really give up anything big, and they would have found someone else so why not?
Did you mean *disagree* there?

From the perspective of the you deciding on the bargain, you're taking a coin flip.
50% chance you will end up enslaved.
50% chance you'll end up with riches plus an identity thief with all your info and the ability to predict your next few passwords.

As for duplicating myself for myself, that would probably depend a lot on the maintenance requirements.
I certainly wouldn't trust my current desktop to maintain uptime on such a valuable process.


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