Students who can't/won't learn

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Amicitia
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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Amicitia » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:52 am UTC

It really annoyed me when they opened classes to everyone, my class sizes went from 14 to 30, and were filled with people who wanted to prep for the AP test.
Last edited by Amicitia on Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:17 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Sarcio » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:05 am UTC

Amicitia wrote:
Sarcio wrote: Can you learn from a textbook?

One can learn from textbook, without the aid of a teacher.
The classroom is supposed to elaborate on the material in the text, and isn't the place for going through it. Books say "the proof is up to the reader," not "the proof is up to the reader's GSI or professor."

Amicitia, my dear foolish simp, i must discourage you from attempting to learn from a textbook. If are unable to read something in order to comprehend the meaning, and can take something so clearly out of context, then i highly doubt that you will be able to learn much of anything from a textbook. or at least, much of anything meaningful.

Allow me to reiterate my statement:
"Can you learn from a textbook? Only if you comprehend the material quite well."
Allow me to explain that in a different way:
"Is it possible to learn from a textbook? Yes, but only assuming that the person attempting to learn has no difficulty learning the material presented"
Perhaps that explanation didn't make sense to you:
"You know, not everyone can learn from a textbook. Sure, some people can, but some people don't learn things so well, and maybe need a bit of extra help. These people have trouble learning from a generic textbook, and when they need another example, the textbook just can't offer it."
Maybe i should try another tack:
"What are textbooks for? yes, they're for teaching people stuff. How do they teach people stuff? Right, by showing them stuff and giving examples. If you don't understand, can you ask it for help? no, not really. so then, if you don't understand the texbook, should you feel bad for it? Right, of course not, not everyone learns in the same orthodox way."
you STILL don't get it? Lets try one more thing then:
It am textbook. Can me learn from book? Me am no so smart, maybe me learn, maybe me no. It am tough for say.

get my point? You've clearly evidenced that not everyone can learn something properly just by reading it.

Or, should i share some of that training with you?

I've been cautioned not to point students to a textbook and simply explain that it holds the answer. The idea is to show them how to obtain the answer. It is not inherently obvious for all students that each chapter contains key points at the end of each section and that the glossary is highly useful for definitions. Also, many textbook examples are very confusing, because they're presented in steps but the steps aren't always explained. Sometimes textbooks present a method that the students are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with, and this discourages them. Also, there is a lot of text in textbooks. Unless a student has been shown how, many aren't sure how to obtain the information they need out of all of the text, and aren't willing to read the whole book. Overall, the textbook should be used as a resource ONLY, not a learning tool. Verbal instruction and graphical demonstration describe far better than written word in most cases, and if the student requires clarification, it is easy for them to ask a human being. If one student doesn't understand, it is highly likely that other students may not, and may even misunderstand. A textbook cannot correct the reader when they have misunderstood the statement.

Also, i've been caution as to how to present facts. When teaching a subject or giving a lecture, no matter how long, listing the facts is a bad way to go about it. Present it in an interesting and engrossing way, which captures the students' attention and forces them to think about the subject. Challenge them with questions on the material that has been presented frequently, and reward positive results to ensure that they maintain focus. If you simply list facts, the presentation becomes boring and students focus elsewhere. Including anecdotes and real-world examples gives the lesson meaning and functionality, while keeping it interesting and informative. Ask frequently if the students have questions and always be ready to rephrase anything.

Textbooks do exactly that: list facts. The only way one can learn from a textbook without taught instruction is if one is truly dedicated to learning the subject and one can easily comprehend the material. The MOMENT a question is raised that the textbook does not answer, the reader is immediately stumped and must ask for help or fail to fully comprehend the material. Also, textbooks tend to simply list facts, this is entirely boring unless the reader is interested in the material, and desires to learn it. I find it hard to read through a math textbook, even though that is the most easily presented subject in a textbook, and i'm quite interested in it. To be honest, lacking the human element draws the attention away, causes the mind to wander, and generally slows the comprehension process. i CAN learn from a textbook. Along the same logic, i can sail to england in a river raft. Of course, there's easier ways to cross oceans than paddling the whole way.

So maybe, just maybe, before you start spouting your nonsense, you should consider that i maybe, possibly, by some stretch of the imagination, might actually know what i'm talking about.

Oh, and as to your claim that nobody needs calculus except for a few small jobs:
calculus is not a graduation requirement. It is a requirement for college, perhaps, but in case you failed to grasp the concept, a degree is a testimate to your ability to learn and the fact that you've learned extensively in a specific subject. ability to learn math counts as ability to learn. Also, college is optional.

The math required in high school, so far as i have seen, is second nature to me. Figuring out percentages, examining functions for generic trends, manipulating multiple sums, involving positives and negatives. This math is necessary to life. Unless of course, you don't want to pay taxes, offer tips at restaurants, or function in the adult world in any meaningful way. English: High school english, on the basic level, the minimum requirement, teaches you to read and write proficiently, perhaps not good enough for college, but good enough to write a basic resume and to obtain whatever information from whatever you're reading is necessary. Studying plato never came up in my high school....

Oh, and i hear all of you bragging about AP. I took 6 IB tests. IB, International Baccalareate. For those of you who don't know what that means, it's like AP, but harder, and recognised around the world. Scored above a 4 on all of them. got 2 4's, 3 5's, and a 6. Not the best and i didn't pull diploma, but trust me, you want difficult classes, AP got nothin' on IB. And let me just say, with exception to a few of the less...applicable things (IB physics 3-4, IB 12th grade english), i've used all of my basic knowledge i picked up in high school all the way through my life. Not counting the crap i have to teach these kids. I mean elsewhere. Do your taxes sometime, but don't use any percentages, follow any formulas, involve any variables, or comprehend any negative signs. See how well that turns out.

There's a reason there is a basic requirement for graduation. There's a reason this stuff is forced down your throat. You may not like it at the time, you may not want to learn it, or see a use for it, but trust me, even someone like YOU, amicitia, if you've learned what you need, surely you'll find use for a majority of the little tidbits you learned. Unless, of course, you do nothing but flip burgers. Good luck figuring out if they're paying you the right amount.

Also, isn't it nice to be able to comprehend some basic mechanics, you know, when trying to solve a problem. Car stuck in the ditch, how are you getting it out? I personally can apply approximately seven times the maximum force i can produce with my own body to a car, given a solid object nearby and a bit of rope. Kinda nice to know that i'd be able to get one helluva big car out of quite a steep ditch, on my own. Trust me, all this silly stuff, it's useful. Did you take a philosophy class in high school? Is that what you're babbling about being unnecessary? Before you point out any more information that you declare unnecessary, that you learned in high school, ask yourself if you were forced to learn it first. I've taken 5 years of german, and i've spoken to a total of 3 germans so far. Was i forced to take german? no.

EDIT: Oh, and yes, somebody has to flip burgers. I did my year of burger flipping for my first job in high school. I don't see why that can't continue to be the demographic of burger-flippers. Oh, and those who absolutely MUST flunk out. But that doesn't mean we should deprive some of their ability to excel simply because it's too much work. I work my ass off every day to save kids from situations like that. Honestly, if you give a crap about the person next to you, you might actually think about their future, and see that if you let them be retarded on their own, they're going to screw up big time, but if you 'force them through 12 years of hell', they might actually make a decent life for themselves. and by might, i mean, it raises their chances a couple thousand percent, from nearly none to actually something substantial! Cuz you know, i learned the hard way. You screw up once, it takes a mountain of effort to get back to where you were. Miss your opportunity to graduate high school, it's kinda hard to get that back.

Hey... no. Anything resembling red is reserved for us. --Hermaj

By all means, draw the line for me. what resembles red?

This is not the area for games, and it's not the place to be a smart arse. The colour you first edited your post in was close enough to red to be confusing, even though it was not exactly red, which I'm sure you would have jumped on immediately had I said it was. Also, the bright colours here are pretty distracting - your edits do not need to be in colour and they especially do not need to be in bright colour.
Last edited by Sarcio on Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:43 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Malice » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:37 am UTC

Sarcio wrote:EDIT: Oh, and yes, somebody has to flip burgers. I did my year of burger flipping for my first job in high school. I don't see why that can't continue to be the demographic of burger-flippers. Oh, and those who absolutely MUST flunk out. But that doesn't mean we should deprive some of their ability to excel simply because it's too much work. I work my ass off every day to save kids from situations like that. Honestly, if you give a crap about the person next to you, you might actually think about their future, and see that if you let them be retarded on their own, they're going to screw up big time, but if you 'force them through 12 years of hell', they might actually make a decent life for themselves. and by might, i mean, it raises their chances a couple thousand percent, from nearly none to actually something substantial! Cuz you know, i learned the hard way. You screw up once, it takes a mountain of effort to get back to where you were. Miss your opportunity to graduate high school, it's kinda hard to get that back.


That first part is why I mentioned mechanic, too. Just trying to point out that the standard "good grades-->college-->high-paying job-->death" route isn't for everyone. You can flunk out of high school and still have a decent life. You can learn everything there is to know about, say, motorcycle maintenance and be a happy person and contribute to society without ever learning how to solve a quadratic equation or what, precisely, the great white whale symbolizes. Don't take for granted the presumption that public education is the end-all be-all of success.
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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby EvanED » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:45 pm UTC

Sarcio wrote:Textbooks do exactly that: list facts.

And, for certain books, this claim is giving too much credit.

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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Sarcio » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:32 pm UTC

I'll admit, having a public education does not guarantee success. And i'll also admit, not being 100% perfect in all your high school subjects is not required for success.

There is, however, a baseline of education which one MUST have. Examine a 9th grade algebra class. Algebra is the manipulation of numbers. examining coeffecients, where you can and cannot combine terms, how you multiply 3(2+x), what the sum of -3+(-5)-6 is. This is a level of math that is nearly REQUIRED for basic existance. The mechanic has to buy a $37 part, and worked for 6 hours at $30 per hour of labor, but he's giving the customer a 10% discount. What's the total cost? No quadratic formula here. ALL of the math isn't required. but if he can't even perform basic algebraic functions, that's not going to be a problem he can solve. And his customer is gonna be pissed off when he charges them $213 instead of $195 because he didn't know when to apply the discount.

Public education is not the end-all. Private tutoring, friends who have answers, private investigation, these things can compensate. They usually also cost some degree of money. Public education is a service, and it provides to EVERY student what they need (with exception to those mentioned earlier, who are actually mentally incapable of learning from orthodox methods without extensive assistance, and provisions have been made towards these things)to be able to function in daily life. Even a burger flipper needs algebra. The government isn't very forgiving when you forget that subtracting a negative is like adding a positive on your taxes. Even a burger flipper (SHOULD) need to be able to comprehend basic political debates.
I must wonder at how much anyone can get out of life when they fail to comprehend 95% of what is said around them. The people who cheer at bush even when he's doing nothing but babble (a far too common occurance), and the ones who can't read a basic sentence. Especially the ones who have put only enough effort into learning the language such that they can (painfully) ask the price and inquire where the bathroom is. I fail to see how oblivion of one's surroundings can be a positive thing, when there are things happening that i don't understand, it makes me feel inferior, incompetent, it makes me unhappy to think that i'm not in control of my situation. This comprehension of the world around you requires a certain level, if but basic, of knowledge. If you pass high school, you SHOULD possess this, and while you may not understand the intricacies of the american political system, or what it means that the fed is raising interest rates, you might, perhaps, just be able to understand how the car dealer is screwing you over when he's offering you lower payments for a long period and higher interest.

I think it is fully possible to pass through high school and know nothing more than is required of basic human existance in society today.
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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby libellule » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:43 pm UTC

http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/ ... xml&coll=1

tl;dr: kid with dyslexia, works like a dog, is told he's retarded/stupid/lazy, overcomes problems with years of work and support from mom + one special teacher.

What this article really impressed on me was that without his mother's perseverance and interest in her son's education, this kid would have fallen through the cracks. And I don't know that it can be any other way. It's just too costly for every single student to have a dedicated helper in the public school system, and it seems that without that, it's just a crap shoot as to whether learning disabilities are ever diagnosed/remedied.

But yeah. Aside from learning issues... some kids are just not interested in academia and we should maybe steer them in practical directions rather than tell them they're good for nothing but flipping burgers if they don't grasp the finer points of partial differential equations and epistemological discourse.

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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:48 pm UTC

Sarcio wrote:Amicitia, my dear foolish simp, i must discourage you from attempting to learn from a textbook. If are unable to read something in order to comprehend the meaning, and can take something so clearly out of context, then i highly doubt that you will be able to learn much of anything from a textbook. or at least, much of anything meaningful.


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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Sarcio » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:49 pm UTC

Oh by all means, i have some students i simply beg to get a diploma. These are skills i believe the kids absolutely need in life, but they don't have to have aspirations. Only the ones that i KNOW want better, if only they were wise enough to see far enough ahead to realize they needed this silly diploma do i threaten with the job of flipping burgers. I have a studen who wants to become a fireman. I encourage that, i think it's a very admirable goal, he was embarassed when he first told me, and i didn't laugh at all. I agreed, yes, it doesn't require much knowledge, and it doesn't require a degree, the training required to be a fireman is far outside the scope of academia. I showed him, however, how much easier life is if you know this stuff. made his head spin a bit in the process. The guy is running a 3.5 gpa now, and doing awesome in all his classes, i don't even have to help him, save to bug him from time to time and get him working. I respect the pursuit of non-academic careers, and i'll encourage people if they choose that direction. I will not, however, advocate dropping out of high school. I cannot think of anyone, save someone who has either a very intelligent and loving partner or is living with their parents, who doesn't need the knowledge i'm trying to offer.

@belial: I am playing nice. Amicitia offended me. I bit my tongue back hard enough that it bled.
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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby libellule » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:02 pm UTC

BTW Sarcio, I also did the IB (in Europe, many years ago) and now live in a community in the US where there is interest in implementing an IB curriculum in some of the High Schools. It surprises me a little because efforts to impose federal educational standards have always met with much resistance in the US. The raison d'etre of the IB is to allow kids who grow up in expatriate communities to be judged on an equal basis when applying for admission to universities, and the imposition of international standards would appear to me to be even more unappealing to the disapproving masses than federal standards.

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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Nath » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:13 pm UTC

Interesting discussion. I'm 28% too lazy to scroll up and quote all the right people, so I'll just jump in.

Yes, there are some children who are simply unwilling to learn. I don't know why this is a subject of debate; I'm sure we've all met people like this at some point. However, I don't think it's acceptable to just say it's their fault and abandon them. The thing about kids is that they are kids. They are stupid. They'll get smarter eventually. Many of those learning-resistant kids I knew are now engineers, or on their way to becoming doctors. I wonder where they'd be if they'd been abandoned.

Second: yes, a lot of what is taught in schools is not directly useful. However, the process of learning it -- and of being made to learn it, even if you don't want to -- is useful. Besides, I think the acquisition of knowledge is good not just as a means to an end, but as an end in itself. For adults, this should be voluntary, but kids need a bit of prodding sometimes.

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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Sarcio » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:47 am UTC

libellule wrote:and the imposition of international standards would appear to me to be even more unappealing to the disapproving masses than federal standards

Indeed, if IB standards were minimum for graduation, you can bet that there'd be HUGE resistance. It's not. Very few people have qualms with honors, advanced, and especially internationally recognised programs which help the more advanced students excel. The only ones who do are the ones who (quite validly) argue that the money would be better spent bringing the less advanced students to average than the more advanced even further. The difficult juggle is who is more important?

@nath: It's been noted that i've been a bit harsh to Amicitia in this thread. He/she is the sole reason for the discussion, claiming that there is no such thing as a child who can't learn, and it's all the teacher's fault. Ignorance is the reason for this discussion.

As to your statement 'kids are kids, they are stupid.' That is altogether the wrong attitude. I understand that you don't mean to insult their intelligence by that statement, but their judgement system, qualifying that they don't properly judge it, and choose playing video games to setting a proper foundation to their life. This is reasonable. But they are not kids. I refer to them as children because legally they are, and in many senses they are. But never, ever, do i talk down to any of them. I treat them as equals, and they should be regarded as such. They may lack much maturity, but they are every bit as intelligent and logical as your or i. They can be reasoned with, and most importantly, they possess in a very real sense a very strong will of their own.

This means that they are not just children. A child who grabs another child's toy and declares 'mine!' can be slapped on the hand and told no, and they'll stop doing it. High school students have set their will to what they are doing. They must be convinced otherwise, and if this cannot be done, there is no forcing them. They are all clever enough to get me to work with them and essentially do the problems for them, so they don't have to even think. Even the youngest of high school students is very independant and willed. They may not be ready to move out on their own, in a practical sense, but mentally and emotionally they are more than ready. A high school student who does not want to learn will not learn. It does not matter how much trouble you cause for them, they will end up hating you and still staunchly refusing to learn.

This is not reason to leave them behind. On a one-to-one basis, no child should EVER be left behind, ignored, or forgotten. There is one problem: The children outnumber the teachers by about 30 to 1. The teacher has a responsibility to the entire class, and while perhaps in an entire year, with all the time spent one-to-one with a student, they could cajole them into learning, the rest of the class would be left high and dry. An unhappy middle ground must be found, where the most students are learning, and the fewest are left behind, but some, unfortunately, force themselves through the cracks. Even with someone like myself, i have far too many students that i'm responsible even in a single class (about 10, on average 2 or 3 who need special help, 4 or 5 who need simple supervision and convincing, and 2 or 3 who simply refuse to learn), to be able to work with these students. I spent every spare moment i have attempting to convince them, and i try as hard as i can, but sometimes they simply refuse. It is very disheartening to spent 3 hours a day 5 days a week for 3 months with a student and still be nowhere further than you were before. nfortunately, i never really get even that much time. As it is, however, i usually bring the average grade in a class that i'm helping in up by about 6-10 percentage points. This is very significant. I cannot, however, guarantee all of them pass, even with the special time i am allotted with them.

Were they 5 or 6, the almighty hand of the adult would be able to force them (i'm not talking about beating here, it's metaphorical) into learning. They are too independant now, and that trick doesn't work any more.
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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Nath » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:38 am UTC

Yeah, I was being tongue in cheek with the 'kids are stupid' thing. The point I was making is that children do not make good long term decisions. Nor do most adults, but that's a different issue. The difference is that adults are entirely responsible for their decisions, but children have a smaller degree of responsibility (depending on their age). When a child does something stupid, the teachers and parents ought to try and fix it. When an adult does something stupid, no one is obligated to help.

And yes, it is inevitable that a few people will slip through the cracks, but that's not what I was referring to. I was talking about the stance that if a kid does not choose to learn, it's their problem rather than the teacher's. Pressuring kids to learn -- even high school kids -- is important, even if it's the kid's fault that he/she is falling behind. Teachers don't have magic powers, so they won't always succeed, but it is important to try.

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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Sarcio » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:42 pm UTC

nath wrote:When a child does something stupid, the teachers and parents ought to try and fix it. When an adult does something stupid, no one is obligated to help.

that was the statement i was attacking. They're very much on the line of being children and adults, with the will of an adult and the values of a child. A dangerous combination to their future if the adults in their life haven't maintained strong enough connections with them.

but i understand what you're saying, not that all kids will learn because they're just kids and they can be forced, but rather that mandatory public education is a good thing because if kids were given the choice they'd probably all ruin their lives. I'd have to agree with that statement. Honestly, if i wasn't dating the person i was dating...and she hadn't broken up with me because i was being a moron about my own life and she couldn't handle it any more, i'd probably have flunked high school, scary as that thought is. I suppose that's why i'm so adamant about trying to keep others from following my path.
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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Belial » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:02 pm UTC

@Amicitia: First, I just wanted to say your avatar suits you. Excessive hysteria and misrepresentation.

Amicitia, most of the time, the noxious bile that spews forth from your posts is at least tolerable.

Maybe, if we get enough signatures, we can use Amicitia's own arguments to have Amicitia killed, in order to make the rest of our lives incrementally better. I'd sit through Calculus for that.

Amicitia, my dear foolish simp, i must discourage you from attempting to learn from a textbook.


Listen up.

I get it. We all hate amicitia. It's a given. We all know. We can stop talking about it now. Consider the time for inserting random insults into your posts to be over. It doesn't help anything, and it's dragging the atmosphere of this forum down. This is "Serious Business" not "Mudslinger's Roundup".

In the future, when Amicitia says something outrageous or ridiculous, either answer it with a logical argument, or ignore her and argue around her. It's not hard.

And in case you were thinking of saying "But Belial! I've seen you, yourself, take entire posts out of SB arguments just to call Amicitia a fuckwit and imply that she's a soulless slime creature with shit for eyes!", well, yes. I have. But if we wait around for someone who *hasn't* said mean things to or about her to call a halt to this shit, we'll be waiting a damn long time, my dear hypothetical forumites. I'll be stopping as well, because it has to stop.

If you wish to call me a hypocrite over this, keep in mind that I can change your title to say mean things about your junk.

Amicitia.

Lest you think this is some sort of administrative endorsement of your arguments, your argument-style, or your worth as a human being, let me say this: A lot of what you write, in this thread and others, is borderline trolling. Stating something confrontational, controversial, and inflammatory, and then refusing to adequately explain yourself is *not* a legitimate style of argument. And whether you mean it as such or not, it looks a lot like a calculated attempt to stir up shitslinging and negative sentiment for your own amusement. If I see this behaviour continue on various parts of the fora, you will be receiving warnings and disciplinary actions. We do not brook trolls here.

It is *not* the forum population's responsibility to punish you or call you out on this, but it is the mod team's. Further complaints will come to us, rather than being aired incessantly in threads that are actually for discussion. It doesn't belong here, people.

I will be copying this post to the main SB thread.

Edit:

Sarcio wrote:@belial: I am playing nice. Amicitia offended me. I bit my tongue back hard enough that it bled.


Bite harder, or walk away.
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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby SirEel » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:29 am UTC

@Sarcio your experiance more or less reflects what I have seen as a student in secondary school (in the UK), and while I'm not a personal tutor I have spent time trying to teach friends various subjects. It's damn tough work, especially with ones that seem to have restricted their own ability for some reason I'm still trying to fathom.

Seriously wish I understood a little more about the american education system as bits of this discussion went over my head.

Anyway, I'm currently at university and I've noticed (not that it's hard to) that a lot of the students on my course really don't seem to give a shit about studying. I'm talking seriously bad high-school type behavoir in lectures, from talking, through to shouting, yelling insulting remarks about the teacher, or even outright bullying of other students (though this is mostly limited to one student who ,while i won't say he deserves it, I'm not going to claim I like him any more than anyone else, but at least I listen to what he has to say *before* I tell him he is wrong). I can't understand why my class(lecture?)-mates would spend the rather large amount it costs to go to university (something like 6000 in USD per year just or the course) especially when this money is in general all borrowed from the government along with all the other loans they offer for living, when they don't intend to actually try to learn anything.

I can't claim to be studying especially hard, but I'm well versed in my subject, and this allows me a lot of leeway, but I can clearly see this isn't so for many people on my course. I can only imagine these people are only attending for the social life university offers, and perhaps because even a 3rd looks better on a CV than no degree at all. If only it didn't make my, and others, lives when trying to learn something so damn hard... then i suppose i wouldn't care.

Interestingly, these students didn't completely fail the first year (cos they are back, more is the pity) so either they are doing something right, or ist a lot easier than i thought. ho humm.

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Re: Students who can't/won't learn

Postby Eleyras » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:27 pm UTC

BVD wrote:Stanford Online High School
Not bad. Not for everyone, certainly, but then again that's not the point.

Interjecting my brief 2c worth of experience with this program, I'll have meaningful conclusions after I'm done with my next class.

I was enrolled in courses with EPGY* during 7th and 8th grade, it's part of how I completed math faster. I took algebra I, geometry, and algebra II (which I then had to retake, as the high school I attended had only algII/trig, not a separate trig class. Ah, well, easy A and a good teacher) They offer a tutor with office hours to help you, a feature I took advantage of for geometry. Somehow, I managed to pass that class, though proofs drove me nuts. The fact that the classes I took were work-at-your-own-pace was great sometimes and horrible other times. Also, how distracting is it to do work on a computer that is by necessity internet-enabled? My sister also took Algebra I with them and had a TERRIBLE time. It's all learning styles. As someone who's independent and thinks the other students in class are largely a nuisance as they encourage group projects, I was happy. :D

*I didn't do it as a high school thing, it was a part of my homeschool curriculum
At some point, I will remember to sig quotes I find amusing or something.

...once I stop laughing.


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