The Bush Resume

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btilly
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The Bush Resume

Postby btilly » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:40 pm UTC

My mother sent this to me, I thought some here would enjoy.

----------------

*Subject:* Fw: Fwd: Fw: Bush Resume

This person needs a job. This individual seeks an executive position. He will be available in January 2009, and is willing to relocate. *RESUME

*GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington , DC 20520

*EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE*:

*Law Enforcement:
*I was arrested in Kennebunkport , Maine , in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been 'lost' and is not available.

*Military:*
I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam .

*College*:
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.


*PAST WORK EXPERIENCE* :
I ran for U.S. Congress and lost.
I began my career in the oil business in Midland , Texas in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas . The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.

With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas .


*ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF **TEXAS* :

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union . During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America .

I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.

With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida , and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President of the United States , after losing by over 500,000 votes.

*ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:*

I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.

I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My 'poorest millionaire,' Condoleezza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.

I am the all- time U.S. and world record -holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.

My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. history, Enron.

My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.

I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.

I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

I changed the U.S. policy to allow convict ed criminals to be awarded government contracts.

I appointed more convicted criminals to my administration than any President in U.S. history.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in
the history of the United States Government.

I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.

I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspector's access to U.S. 'prisoners of war' detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US election).

I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

I garnered the most sympathy ever for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.

I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families in wartime.

In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

I am supporting development of a nuclear 'Tactical Bunker Buster,' a WMD.

I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice.


*RECORDS AND REFERENCES:*

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review. I specified that my sealed documents will not be available for 50 years.


*PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY VOTER YOU KNOW!

*/'Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.'

/-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
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Durandal
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Durandal » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:52 pm UTC

Why is this in serious business?

Honestly, the media skews their portrayal of Bush so much (because viewers apparently enjoy the fact that they can poke fun at someone so important) that people now seem to think that he has accomplished nothing but make the U.S. a worse place to live.

Yes this is funny. I'm not above enjoying all the crap they throw at him. You do have to be objective enough not to take all of it at face value though.

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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby btilly » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:17 pm UTC

Durandal wrote:Why is this in serious business?

Because I strongly suspected that it would spark a discussion that is inappropriate for any other forum.
Durandal wrote:Honestly, the media skews their portrayal of Bush so much (because viewers apparently enjoy the fact that they can poke fun at someone so important) that people now seem to think that he has accomplished nothing but make the U.S. a worse place to live.

Honestly, the media gives him a free ride relative to what he deserves. Go pick up some books by Greg Palast and learn what the media doesn't report about him.
Durandal wrote:Yes this is funny. I'm not above enjoying all the crap they throw at him. You do have to be objective enough not to take all of it at face value though.

Of course. Even a list like that has some egregious mistakes. For instance at the point of the Iraq invasion, Bush had the support of the overwhelming majority of the US population.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby fjafjan » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:23 pm UTC

People defending Bush because hating him is cool are just as much fools as those who hate him without knowing anything about him. Could you bring some arguments for why he has not been one of the worst presidents ever? We already have more than two dozen for why he is.
I mean I find the reaction to him almost more appaling than he himself at this point, he will do something like appoint "loyal Bushies", and just generally fuck about, and people will go "heh, that old Bush, there he goes again". It's as if he could not infact start a nuclear war, Invade Iran, further corrupt the government with a new shocking brand of partisanship ala Chaney or continue to do large economic damage. I mean compare what he has done to Nixon and really it falls short, the difference is the media and the american people are giving him a carte blance.

So is this serious business? Well I figure it's worth discussing if there is anyone who disagrees.

Also regarding the US popular support of the Iraq Invasion I think it should be worth mentioning this was mostly because of a largely government lead propaganda campaign trying to establish a link between Iraq/Saddam and Al Quaida/9-11, which was largely successful, due to the dysfunctional Mainstream Media in the US. So at the invasion of Iraq I know a large percentage, I dare not say if it was a majority or not, believed Saddam had something to do with 9-11.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Durandal » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:21 am UTC

fjafjan wrote:People defending Bush because hating him is cool are just as much fools as those who hate him without knowing anything about him.
Where would you get the impression that I defend him because hating him is cool? Also, 'defending' isn't even the right word. I just think we shouldn't make a sport out of it. Obviously the man is not a great president. However, that doesn't mean he hasn't accomplished a single positive thing during his tenure - they're all just immensely overshadowed by his massive failings as portrayed by the voracious media.

I'm pretty sure if there was a news team following you around and documenting your (or anyone's) life*, only focusing on your failures (moral and otherwise), it wouldn't be hard to make you look like an ignorant idiot/jerk.

*Note that I'm using your life analogously as a presidential term. Personal failures are meant to represent policy failures. That kind of thing.

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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby schmiggen » Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:56 am UTC

Durandal wrote:
fjafjan wrote:I'm pretty sure if there was a news team following you around and documenting your (or anyone's) life*, only focusing on your failures (moral and otherwise), it wouldn't be hard to make you look like an ignorant idiot/jerk.

It would be quite a bit tougher to make me look like an ignorant idiot/jerk by directly quoting or videotaping speeches that I prepared and delivered directly to the public. Also, yes, much of the message of the media is commentary, but much as well is decently objective reporting (e.g. "President Bush vetoed Bill X today...." or "President Bush had a press conference; let's watch some of it *video clip*").

Ironically, perhaps I actually am an ignorant idiot/jerk: So... what are some of Bush's moral/otherwise successes? I've heard occasionally that there have been some things, but I haven't seen any that directly or obviously affect my everyday life, and also, as you've pointed out, they are kinda drowned out by his failures, whether or not that is an effect due to the media or not.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby EsotericWombat » Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:53 pm UTC

fjafjan wrote:compare what he has done to Nixon and really it falls short


I disagree. Bush has far more blood on his hands. And while it was Nixon who said "When the President does it, that means that it's not illegal," Bush has lived it.

And while Nixon was laid bare by the tapes, we may never be able to know the full extent of Bush's crookedness.

And Durendal, failings "as portrayed by the voracious media?" Seriously?

The media isn't a damn actor. He failed, and they reported it. In fact, they didn't always report it at first. No one would touch him when his approval ratings were at a post- 9/11 high.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Herman » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

Random comment:

This

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.

is not true at all.

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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Dave Rapp » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:01 pm UTC

Herman wrote:Random comment:

This

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.

is not true at all.


Iraq did not attack us, Al-Quaeda in Afghanistan did. We invaded Iraq because we thought Saddam Hussein might pose a threat in the future. And we're still there, acting as the local police and cleanup crew. We've basicaly got total military control over the country (except for the pissed off jihadists) despite having set up a puppet government.

I'd say that qualifies as "an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation." But maybe my definition of unprovoked, pre-emptive, and occupation are wrong.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby cbyers » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:06 pm UTC

Tell me a success of Bush.

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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Dave Rapp » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:18 pm UTC

cbyers wrote:Tell me a success of Bush.

I have three! :shock:

  • He got re-elected.
  • He didn't get impeached.
  • He makes a damn find political cartoon!

Is he not like totally the best president ever? Bush for '08!
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Indon » Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:00 pm UTC

btilly wrote:I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

They aren't bankrupt until they can no longer pay off the interest on their debt. That this might in fact happen some time in the future does not mean we're bankrupt _yet_.

btilly wrote:I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.

I don't think this is accurate. America has a long and proud tradition of invading other soverign nations.

Durandal wrote:Honestly, the media skews their portrayal of Bush so much (because viewers apparently enjoy the fact that they can poke fun at someone so important) that people now seem to think that he has accomplished nothing but make the U.S. a worse place to live.


What has he accomplished that would make the US a better place to live? I'm sure there's _something_, but I don't think I've ever seen anything, other than arguable things like, 'stimulated the economy with federal funds by increasing US debt massively', which I don't equate towards promoting the welfare of our nation and such.

I'm also inclined to doubt that this belongs in Serious Business.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby btilly » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:29 pm UTC

Dave Rapp wrote:
cbyers wrote:Tell me a success of Bush.

I have three! :shock:

  • He got re-elected.
  • He didn't get impeached.
  • He makes a damn find political cartoon!

Is he not like totally the best president ever? Bush for '08!

He got re-elected through some truly horrible shenanigans that the media never reported. Comparisons of various polls (including exit polls) and the official tally in Ohio were so divergent that multiple statisticians signed a statement that they believed that the election could not have been fair. The election's commissioner for Ohio was Bush's campaign co-chair. Coincidence? I think not.

He didn't get impeached because there aren't enough Democrats in Congress and the Senate to push through impeachment hearings. However the evidence that he should be impeached is far stronger than it ever was for Bill Clinton.

I grant that Bush has been a godsend for comics everywhere.

Indon wrote:
btilly wrote:I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

They aren't bankrupt until they can no longer pay off the interest on their debt. That this might in fact happen some time in the future does not mean we're bankrupt _yet_.

True. However the combination of government, corporate and personal debt in the USA is a situation which in any normal nation would immediately result in a financial panic. That hasn't happened in the USA because our currency is so important for world trade, and other countries haven't figured out how to extricate themselves from the situation without going down themselves.
Indon wrote:
btilly wrote:I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.

I don't think this is accurate. America has a long and proud tradition of invading other soverign nations.

Agreed. For instance take the 1846 invasion of Mexico, or the 1898 invasion of Cuba, or the 1983 invasion of Grenada.

But that said, Bush was the first president to order an invasion based on trumped up charges that the country might be developing weapons we don't like. As for the real reason, well, the original title of the invasion was Operation Iraqi Liberation. (Liberation was quickly changed to Freedom after they realized how bad it looked on the nightly news to see the invasion called O.I.L.)
Indon wrote:
Durandal wrote:Honestly, the media skews their portrayal of Bush so much (because viewers apparently enjoy the fact that they can poke fun at someone so important) that people now seem to think that he has accomplished nothing but make the U.S. a worse place to live.

What has he accomplished that would make the US a better place to live? I'm sure there's _something_, but I don't think I've ever seen anything, other than arguable things like, 'stimulated the economy with federal funds by increasing US debt massively', which I don't equate towards promoting the welfare of our nation and such.

I'm also inclined to doubt that this belongs in Serious Business.

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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Pandora_Bound » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:18 am UTC

btilly wrote:
Indon wrote:
btilly wrote:I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.

I don't think this is accurate. America has a long and proud tradition of invading other soverign nations.

Agreed. For instance take the 1846 invasion of Mexico, or the 1898 invasion of Cuba, or the 1983 invasion of Grenada.

But that said, Bush was the first president to order an invasion based on trumped up charges that the country might be developing weapons we don't like. As for the real reason, well, the original title of the invasion was Operation Iraqi Liberation. (Liberation was quickly changed to Freedom after they realized how bad it looked on the nightly news to see the invasion called O.I.L.)


The reasons given for invading Iraq was more miscommunication between the CIA and the President than fabricated to begin with. The CIA was paranoid after missing 9/11 and continually passed up unreliable information, as it got higher and higher through the ranks, so did the percieved reliability of the information recieved, and, by the time it got to the Oval Office was considered completely true.

As for the real reason, well, its standard practice in foreign policy to pay more attention to governments and countries which we have a national interest in, rather than those which have no economic or otherwise benefit to our own country. This is the main reason why we are in Iraq (so we are assured oil from there), and not Darfur (which has WAAYY bigger issues, like genocide). Is it good? No, but it is also not wholly uncommon and unheard of and the President shouldn't necesarily be judged the singularly worst president ever for invading countries which we have major national interests in. There were plenty other presidents who did just that and their bodycounts are much higher (i.e. Vietnam).

Personally I doubt he was the absolute WORST president ever, but he certainly isn't going to be added to Mount Rushmore anytime soon.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Indon » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:48 am UTC

Pandora_Bound wrote:Personally I doubt he was the absolute WORST president ever, but he certainly isn't going to be added to Mount Rushmore anytime soon.


I dunno. I think he outdoes Taft.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:27 am UTC

Durandal wrote:I'm pretty sure if there was a news team following you around and documenting your (or anyone's) life*, only focusing on your failures (moral and otherwise), it wouldn't be hard to make you look like an ignorant idiot/jerk.

*Note that I'm using your life analogously as a presidential term. Personal failures are meant to represent policy failures. That kind of thing.


Yes, well every recent president has had to deal with that. And yet, somehow Bush's failures overshadow all of theirs. So while under the same scrutiny Bush looks worse then previous presidents, that seems like a fair comparison. Therefore I think it's safe to say Bush has been a much worse president then any in recent memory.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby EsotericWombat » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:51 am UTC

The thing is? for a long period after 9/11 he was unassailable. He had to fuck up badly enough to overcome the goodwill of a public and a news media that was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. And many journalists have since expressed extreme regret as a result.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Garm » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:54 am UTC

America has invaded plenty of countries but occupied? Don't think we'd done that one until Iraq II. The intelligence wasn't bad. We knew that the Nigerian nuke material was false, yet Bush talked about it as true in the STOU address. That's called lying. The bushies are always trying to have it both ways. The suspect intelligence on Nigeria was good, even tho' it's bad, now the intelligence that put out the NIE that says Iran doesn't have nukes is bad. It's all a big bait and switch game that they play.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby EsotericWombat » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:13 am UTC

Also, at least before there was some form of agression, whether the Gulf of Tonkin or the sinking of the USS Maine, conditions under which the President was expected to retaliate. Which isn't to say that they were wrong then, but it's not the same as what went on here.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby McCaber » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:02 am UTC

Garm wrote:America has invaded plenty of countries but occupied? Don't think we'd done that one until Iraq II.

In the Spanish-American war, America occupied the Philippines for almost 50 years.

EsotericWombat wrote:Also, at least before there was some form of agression, whether the Gulf of Tonkin or the sinking of the USS Maine, conditions under which the President was expected to retaliate.

The Maine sank in the wrong place, and the press manufactured that whole war. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than CIA misinformation doing the same.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby EsotericWombat » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:31 am UTC

I would say that there should be greater expectations made of today's information services. And I know that the press manufactured the war. I wasn't saying that there was actual justifiable cause, but there was at least a pretense of aggression that was being responded to. The idea that the CIA intel was a series of "honest mistakes" is dubious at best when stood alongside the president's continued rhetoric about Iran having nukes even after it was clear that they'd stopped trying years before.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby btilly » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:47 am UTC

Pandora_Bound wrote:
btilly wrote:But that said, Bush was the first president to order an invasion based on trumped up charges that the country might be developing weapons we don't like. As for the real reason, well, the original title of the invasion was Operation Iraqi Liberation. (Liberation was quickly changed to Freedom after they realized how bad it looked on the nightly news to see the invasion called O.I.L.)

The reasons given for invading Iraq was more miscommunication between the CIA and the President than fabricated to begin with. The CIA was paranoid after missing 9/11 and continually passed up unreliable information, as it got higher and higher through the ranks, so did the percieved reliability of the information recieved, and, by the time it got to the Oval Office was considered completely true.

From everything that I've read and heard both at the time and now, Bush was planning the Iraq invasion before 9/11. And the directive to accumulate any and all possible evidence that Iraq was involved came down from the top, and then filtered all evidence coming up. Which for all intents and purposes is the same as fabricating evidence.
Pandora_Bound wrote:As for the real reason, well, its standard practice in foreign policy to pay more attention to governments and countries which we have a national interest in, rather than those which have no economic or otherwise benefit to our own country. This is the main reason why we are in Iraq (so we are assured oil from there), and not Darfur (which has WAAYY bigger issues, like genocide). Is it good? No, but it is also not wholly uncommon and unheard of and the President shouldn't necesarily be judged the singularly worst president ever for invading countries which we have major national interests in. There were plenty other presidents who did just that and their bodycounts are much higher (i.e. Vietnam).

Actually we're not in Iraq to assure ourselves of oil, but rather to assure that we don't get oil from there. To understand that motive you need to remember how deep the ties are between members of the Bush administration and the oil industry. Ties starting with Bush and Cheney, and working their way down the ranks.

Read Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast for confirmation. Complete with details of plans prepared in advance, with said details including author and signatories. Said documents were validated by the BBC with FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act) requests. (Actually there were two conflicting secret plans, but read the book for details.)
Pandora_Bound wrote:Personally I doubt he was the absolute WORST president ever, but he certainly isn't going to be added to Mount Rushmore anytime soon.

I've seen many comments from various historians suggesting that if history doesn't judge him the worst president ever, he will at the very least be the short list of top contenders for that spot.
Last edited by btilly on Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:58 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby EsotericWombat » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:55 am UTC

and that's significant keeping in mind the reluctance historians as a whole have towards make judgments like that.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby lowbart » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:50 pm UTC

I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.


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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Pandora_Bound » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:45 pm UTC

btilly wrote:
Pandora_Bound wrote:The reasons given for invading Iraq was more miscommunication between the CIA and the President than fabricated to begin with. The CIA was paranoid after missing 9/11 and continually passed up unreliable information, as it got higher and higher through the ranks, so did the percieved reliability of the information recieved, and, by the time it got to the Oval Office was considered completely true.

From everything that I've read and heard both at the time and now, Bush was planning the Iraq invasion before 9/11. And the directive to accumulate any and all possible evidence that Iraq was involved came down from the top, and then filtered all evidence coming up. Which for all intents and purposes is the same as fabricating evidence.


I am not as well-versed in the matter as I like, and I agree with you on the fact that the evidence was fabricated, just not wholly intentionally, -in this instance. My point was to say that I don't think the President wasn't aware that the information about the WMDs from the "informant" Curveball was highly suspect. This isn't to contradict that he wanted to finish "daddy's little war", doubtless he did. But the information given by Curveball gave legitimacy to that desire, and that's what brought us to war. But the charge that it was trumped up (and I'm assuming you meant willfully and knowledgeably) by Bush, doesn't seem to fit.

This belief, or course is with the limited information that I have on the subject, but it came from an audio recording of an interview with Tyler Drumheller about his new book: On the Brink. I haven't read it personally, but I hope to soon.

btilly wrote:
Pandora_Bound wrote:As for the real reason, well, its standard practice in foreign policy to pay more attention to governments and countries which we have a national interest in, rather than those which have no economic or otherwise benefit to our own country. This is the main reason why we are in Iraq (so we are assured oil from there), and not Darfur (which has WAAYY bigger issues, like genocide). Is it good? No, but it is also not wholly uncommon and unheard of and the President shouldn't necesarily be judged the singularly worst president ever for invading countries which we have major national interests in. There were plenty other presidents who did just that and their bodycounts are much higher (i.e. Vietnam).

Actually we're not in Iraq to assure ourselves of oil, but rather to assure that we don't get oil from there. To understand that motive you need to remember how deep the ties are between members of the Bush administration and the oil industry. Ties starting with Bush and Cheney, and working their way down the ranks.

Read Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast for confirmation. Complete with details of plans prepared in advance, with said details including author and signatories. Said documents were validated by the BBC with FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act) requests. (Actually there were two conflicting secret plans, but read the book for details.)


Either way, it still is a national interest, but thankyou for clearing that up. I will reiterate my limited knowledge on the subject again, and I will definitely put Armed Madhouse on my reading list. Are there any other books/articles/etc. that you can recommend for further reading?

btilly wrote:I've seen many comments from various historians suggesting that if history doesn't judge him the worst president ever, he will at the very least be the short list of top contenders for that spot.


Even our first President, who has (at least I believe!), a large reputation now as being one of our best Presidents, left the Presidency with public opinion dead-set against him. I doubt that Bush will ever be considered to be on the same tier as Washington (or at least I hope not), but I am reluctant to say he is the worst until we have the historian's benefit of hindsight on his 8-year Presidency, which will include seeing how this all plays out in the next few years, after he leaves office. That being said, I would say he is almost definitely in the bottom 5.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Herman » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:35 am UTC

Dave Rapp wrote:
Herman wrote:Random comment:

This

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.

is not true at all.


Iraq did not attack us, Al-Quaeda in Afghanistan did. We invaded Iraq because we thought Saddam Hussein might pose a threat in the future. And we're still there, acting as the local police and cleanup crew. We've basicaly got total military control over the country (except for the pissed off jihadists) despite having set up a puppet government.

I'd say that qualifies as "an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation." But maybe my definition of unprovoked, pre-emptive, and occupation are wrong.


Heh. I was more going after the "I am the first President in U.S. history..." part. Of course Iraq was unprovoked, but so were lots of previous invasions.

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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Ari » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:06 am UTC

Pandora_Bound wrote:Even our first President, who has (at least I believe!), a large reputation now as being one of our best Presidents, left the Presidency with public opinion dead-set against him. I doubt that Bush will ever be considered to be on the same tier as Washington (or at least I hope not), but I am reluctant to say he is the worst until we have the historian's benefit of hindsight on his 8-year Presidency, which will include seeing how this all plays out in the next few years, after he leaves office. That being said, I would say he is almost definitely in the bottom 5.


I find it hard to believe that most of the complaints about him would actually lose potency in hindsight, especially as a lot of the stuff he's done hasn't been very publicised, and people still think he's one of the worst presidents ever.

Herman wrote:Heh. I was more going after the "I am the first President in U.S. history..." part. Of course Iraq was unprovoked, but so were lots of previous invasions.


I was under the impression that Iraq was the first to be both unprovoked and have the USA declare war first, however I'm not exactly a scholar of US military history.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Garm » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:03 pm UTC

Where's the bit about all the torture? In my mind the whole waterboarding thing is enough to make Bush II the worst prez ever. He tries to justify torture with an assertion of moral authority. How twisted is he?
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Indon » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:36 pm UTC

Garm wrote:Where's the bit about all the torture? In my mind the whole waterboarding thing is enough to make Bush II the worst prez ever. He tries to justify torture with an assertion of moral authority. How twisted is he?


I don't think Bush has been particularly outstanding in terms of presidential ruthlessness.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:00 pm UTC

This is satire people. it's an exaggerated (pay attention to the language!) and funny example of his follies. Laugh at it. be horrified at the presidents mistakes and idiocy and manipulation.

But frankly, you could write something like this for any world leader. It's par with leadership, the whole being a manipulative, maniacal, violent, asshole.

And I really need to say this:

fjafjan wrote:Also regarding the US popular support of the Iraq Invasion I think it should be worth mentioning this was mostly because of a largely government lead propaganda campaign trying to establish a link between Iraq/Saddam and Al Quaida/9-11, which was largely successful, due to the dysfunctional Mainstream Media in the US


fjafjan, you are obviously an intelligent and informed individual. However, please make the connection between the biased media you read and draw from, and the biased media you denounce.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Garm » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:27 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:This is satire people. it's an exaggerated (pay attention to the language!) and funny example of his follies. Laugh at it. be horrified at the presidents mistakes and idiocy and manipulation.

But frankly, you could write something like this for any world leader. It's par with leadership, the whole being a manipulative, maniacal, violent, asshole.


Draw up one of these for Jimmy Carter. I'm guessing his won't (as this resume should) include extraordinary renditions, torture and the removal of habeas corpus from the constitution. Hell... draw one up for Bush 1. It won't include any of the things I just mentioned either. It also won't include the appointment of folks who so severely deregulated the lending market that we're heading into severe recession. Daddy Bush had his own recession but one can probably blame Reagan (another contender for WPE) for much of that. Not every world leader is a manipulative asshole and certainly, were we to assume such, not every world leader has been such an abject failure as W. His policies on every front, domestic, foreign and economic have failed so miserably that we will be dealing with the repercussions for years to come. I'll even go so far as to cite an expert:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/12/bush200712

Not to say that there aren't other failing world leaders... Just Bush is such a magnificent failure. He's so good at being a bad leader, that others don't measure up. I think trying to glad-hand his shortcomings by equating them with other people does great disservice to the magnitude of his diasterous leadership.

fjafjan, you are obviously an intelligent and informed individual. However, please make the connection between the biased media you read and draw from, and the biased media you denounce.


This is sorta circular... how are to ever learn anything at all ever? What I know to be factual is that the Prez said in the state of the union that AQ and Saddam were in cahoots. The 9/11 commission said this wasn't so. Then Cheney went out a couple days later and said that it was so. I'm going with the 9/11 commission on this one, personally. They haven't managed to shoot anyone in the face.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.html

Seriously tho', AQ, by all accounts, hated Saddam. He was a secularist whereas Bin Laden is a zealot. That's a serious simplification. More advanced analysis can be found elsewhere online.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby knoxsouthy » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:51 pm UTC

There's not much point in addressing every persons misinformed ill-conceived partisan anti-W rhetoric.

What I will say is W has made a conscious effort to fight the rising tide of radical islam. The prior 4 presidents (back to Carter not doing anything about the hostage situation) combined did less that Bush to secure this country from further islamic attacks. Then again i'd say 911 was quite the motivator.

Congress authorized Clinton to deal with Saddam which he refused because his mind, or other parts, was distracted by a woman in a blue dress. Congress also authorized W to do something about Saddam because they thought he was an imminent threat and post 911 weren't willing to take any chances of being a scape goat.

As for the mortgage crisis I would suggest whoever is associating that with W to look and see what Clinton did to enable the mortgage companies the freedom to push through high risk loans.

Also look at the rise in the price of gas since the Dems took control of congress; which has quite a bit more influence over market trends than the president.


Do I think W has been a good president? No...he's done a horrible job with govn spending and securing the borders. Do I feel he's doing what he thinks is best for the country? Absolutely....while I don't agree with many of his policies I like that he's stood up for democracy and freedom in the face islamic terrorists. Perhaps if Clinton or W sr had taken such measures the radicals would never have planned and perpetrated 911.

p.s. anyone who has a undergrad and mba from an ivy league school and is trained to fly fighter jets can't be all that stupid.

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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby segmentation fault » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:34 pm UTC

knoxsouthy wrote:p.s. anyone who has a undergrad and mba from an ivy league school


keep in mind his dad probably bought him in, and that supposed low C average (see resume above) isnt all too impressive.

knoxsouthy wrote:and is trained to fly fighter jets can't be all that stupid.


well i mean we can train monkeys to do that, no?
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Indon » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:45 pm UTC

knoxsouthy wrote:What I will say is W has made a conscious effort to fight the rising tide of radical islam. The prior 4 presidents (back to Carter not doing anything about the hostage situation) combined did less that Bush to secure this country from further islamic attacks. Then again i'd say 911 was quite the motivator.

I'll admit he seems to have made an effort, but I don't think he's made any positive impact.

His domestic measures have been, to put it succinctly, fascist and illegal. While the government has a right and duty to these matters, Bush's actions have repeatedly gone beyond the bounds of both usefulness (Are we going to identify a terrorist by examining the books he's checked out from the library?) and lawfulness (Previous presidents have made it easy to get warrants for phone tapping - why violate the constitution and decide not to get them?).

And his diplomatic relations have been absolutely pathetic, in a time where Europe is struggling with religious extremism and we really, really need to be good friends with them to help guide them through it. And of course, our relations in the middle-east are no better than before, and perhaps even worse, which directs and focuses islamic extremism and gives it a target - namely us.

knoxsouthy wrote:p.s. anyone who has a undergrad and mba from an ivy league school and is trained to fly fighter jets can't be all that stupid.


I'm inclined to agree, but if this is the case his apparent incompetence no longer smacks of stupidity, but instead of corruption. It's quite lose-lose for our president at this stage of the game.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby knoxsouthy » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:59 pm UTC

segmentation fault wrote:
knoxsouthy wrote:p.s. anyone who has a undergrad and mba from an ivy league school


keep in mind his dad probably bought him in, and that supposed low C average (see resume above) isnt all too impressive.

knoxsouthy wrote:and is trained to fly fighter jets can't be all that stupid.


well i mean we can train monkeys to do that, no?


Aren't you simply discriminating against W because he was privileged? How is this any different from discriminating against someone based on the colour of their skin or gender for that matter?

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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby Garm » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 pm UTC

knoxsouthy wrote:There's not much point in addressing every persons misinformed ill-conceived partisan anti-W rhetoric.


Don't be a troll. There's no reason to insult.

What I will say is W has made a conscious effort to fight the rising tide of radical islam. The prior 4 presidents (back to Carter not doing anything about the hostage situation) combined did less that Bush to secure this country from further islamic attacks. Then again i'd say 911 was quite the motivator.


But he's not really. Were he actually making this effort he'd have mopped up Taliban in Afghanistan. Had he been smart he would have then leveraged this into convinicing other governments, Pakistan, Lybia, Syria, into further distancing themselves from terrorists. He could have even gone after the Saudis. After all they were the ones who actually funded the 9/11 attacks. Attacking the largely secular state of Iraq isn't combating radical Islam, in fact, it's encouraging it. Bush squandered the good will that was directed at the U.S. after 9/11 and in doing so threw away his chance to be remembered positively. The other thing that Bush has done in 'combating radical Islam' is to remove our claim to the moral high ground. By torturing some people and falsely imprisoning others, he has lowered us to the level of a petty junta.

Congress authorized Clinton to deal with Saddam which he refused because his mind, or other parts, was distracted by a woman in a blue dress. Congress also authorized W to do something about Saddam because they thought he was an imminent threat and post 911 weren't willing to take any chances of being a scape goat.


Is there anything going on right now that isn't Clinton's fault? :roll:

Congress voted to attack Saddam based on faulty intelligence that the administration knew was bad. The threat of imminent nuclear attack on Isreal was overhyped and completely false.

As for the mortgage crisis I would suggest whoever is associating that with W to look and see what Clinton did to enable the mortgage companies the freedom to push through high risk loans.


Deregulation has been happening steadily since Reagan. It just happened more quickly under Bush. Note how deregulation, moving towards a more free market, is heraled as being a wonderful thing. Then all the sleazy shit that the banks have been doing blows up in their face and they stumble back to Uncle Sam asking for a tax payer bail out and more regulation.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby segmentation fault » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:14 pm UTC

knoxsouthy wrote:Aren't you simply discriminating against W because he was privileged?


no. he was able to get into a school he shouldnt have been able to get into.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby btilly » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:23 pm UTC

knoxsouthy wrote:Aren't you simply discriminating against W because he was privileged? How is this any different from discriminating against someone based on the colour of their skin or gender for that matter?

No, it is just drawing the distinction between what you've accomplished, and what was handed to you on a silver platter.

The mentioned items were things that were handed to Bush on a silver platter, and hence no credit should be given to him for them.
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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby DougP » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:49 pm UTC

Dave Rapp wrote:
Herman wrote:Random comment:

This

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community.

is not true at all.


Iraq did not attack us, Al-Quaeda in Afghanistan did. We invaded Iraq because we thought Saddam Hussein might pose a threat in the future. And we're still there, acting as the local police and cleanup crew. We've basicaly got total military control over the country (except for the pissed off jihadists) despite having set up a puppet government.

I'd say that qualifies as "an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation." But maybe my definition of unprovoked, pre-emptive, and occupation are wrong.


My impression is that he wasn't arguing that "unprovoked pre-emptive strike part." But rather that he was arguing that "I am the first President in U.S. history to order..." part. Others have done it before him.

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Re: The Bush Resume

Postby mosc » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:34 pm UTC

you know I'm as anti-bush as the next guy but the OP's "resume" is a bunch of half truths, exaggerations, non-sequential data thrown together for more dramatic effect, and outright lies. Bush has supported enough bad ideas to have plenty to complain about. Why loose site of that in emotional generalizations like this? They're worthless sensationalism meant to stir up further division in our politics and I'm sick of it.
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