please can we all talk about abortions? that would be nice.

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Postby thefiddler » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm UTC

The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:In my province, sex is legal at 14 (booze at 19 ;D). 13, 15, and 17 are the aqkward ages here. 13, too young for sex. 15, can't drive yet but almost. 17, too young for porn stores.

Sex at 14?!?!?!?!
What are they teaching children these days? I hope they are all practicing safe sex. That seems a bit dangerous, though...

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Postby The Sleeping Tyrant » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:53 pm UTC

thefiddler wrote:
The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:In my province, sex is legal at 14 (booze at 19 ;D). 13, 15, and 17 are the aqkward ages here. 13, too young for sex. 15, can't drive yet but almost. 17, too young for porn stores.

Sex at 14?!?!?!?!
What are they teaching children these days? I hope they are all practicing safe sex. That seems a bit dangerous, though...


I'd assume a good portion are practicing safe sex as there aren't any pregnant girls walking around my school that I'm aware of.

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Postby thefiddler » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:57 pm UTC

The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:
thefiddler wrote:
The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:In my province, sex is legal at 14 (booze at 19 ;D). 13, 15, and 17 are the aqkward ages here. 13, too young for sex. 15, can't drive yet but almost. 17, too young for porn stores.

Sex at 14?!?!?!?!
What are they teaching children these days? I hope they are all practicing safe sex. That seems a bit dangerous, though...

I'd assume a good portion are practicing safe sex as there aren't any pregnant girls walking around my school that I'm aware of.

There are loads walking around mine... and none of them are even legally able to have sex! Christ. This is upsetting.
Maybe if we lowered the age, there would be less pregnancies? Naahh...

:D

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Postby The Sleeping Tyrant » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:00 pm UTC

thefiddler wrote:There are loads walking around mine... and none of them are even legally able to have sex! Christ. This is upsetting.
Maybe if we lowered the age, there would be less pregnancies? Naahh...

:D


Well. It's possible. It could also be that since it's legal at a younger age to have sex, if they get pregnant they can have an abortion without fearing potential legal repercussions.

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Postby thefiddler » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:01 pm UTC

The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:
thefiddler wrote:There are loads walking around mine... and none of them are even legally able to have sex! Christ. This is upsetting.
Maybe if we lowered the age, there would be less pregnancies? Naahh...

:D

Well. It's possible. It could also be that since it's legal at a younger age to have sex, if they get pregnant they can have an abortion without fearing potential legal repercussions.

Hrm... true... Well, abortion is also frowned upon, here.
Go figure.

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Postby no-genius » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:29 pm UTC

thefiddler wrote:
The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:
thefiddler wrote:There are loads walking around mine... and none of them are even legally able to have sex! Christ. This is upsetting.
Maybe if we lowered the age, there would be less pregnancies? Naahh...

:D

Well. It's possible. It could also be that since it's legal at a younger age to have sex, if they get pregnant they can have an abortion without fearing potential legal repercussions.

Hrm... true... Well, abortion is also frowned upon, here.
Go figure.


I really have no opinion on abortion? I don't think it should be men that make the laws for that, though.
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Postby thefiddler » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:32 pm UTC

no-genius wrote:I really have no opinion on abortion? I don't think it should be men that make the laws for that, though.

I don't either, on either count.

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Postby no-genius » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:34 pm UTC

thefiddler wrote:
no-genius wrote:I really have no opinion on abortion? I don't think it should be men that make the laws for that, though.

I don't either, on either count.


I think it should be legal though... I guess I do have an opinion, but I don't think it really matters.
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The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Why? It does nothing to address dance music's core problem: the fact that it sucks.

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Postby Belial » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:59 pm UTC

I really have no opinion on abortion? I don't think it should be men that make the laws for that, though.


For the record, I am Pro-abortion. I don't believe you're human until you have your own circulatory system and functioning brain.

That said, from the perspective of the pro-life types, they have every right to have a say in things, and their gender is irrelevant.

From the point of view of someone who believes it's ending a *life*, it's not a "gender" issue, it's a "murder" issue.

And saying that an entire gender doesn't get to have a say in whether or not *murder* is legal is completely nonsensical to them, for good reason.

As long as there's a difference in opinion on whether the fetus is "human" or not, you can argue yourself blue in the face about gender-issues or choice or whatever, and you'll never get yourself anywhere with someone who disagrees on the first point.
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Postby no-genius » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:40 pm UTC

Well, I'm adopted, so I'm not sure its possible for me to have a balanced and objective opinion on abortion...
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Postby thefiddler » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:42 pm UTC

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Postby Belial » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:13 pm UTC

At the risk of inciting a political discussion, let me say it kind of amazes me how people can be opposed to other people making their own choices. "Gay marriage should be illegal because it violates the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman"? Please. Why do you care - because God said so? Whatever happened to separation of church and state?


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Postby Lani » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:26 pm UTC

I'm vehemently pro-choice. Personally, I think the reason South Dakota actually passed the abortion ban was to boost a sagging coat hanger industry.

Seriously, banning abortion just means women will do them unsafely.

Edited because I left out a word or two. Oops...
Last edited by Lani on Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:50 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby thomasjmaccoll » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:44 pm UTC

lani wrote:I'm vehemently pro-choice. Personally, I think South Dakota actually passed the abortion ban was to boost a sagging coat hanger industry.

Seriously, banning abortion just means women will do them unsafely.


i heard a really traumatic radio show about the problem of this in africa the other morning in the shower, not the nicest thing to get the day going. it was actually really powerful, and quite shocking the lengths these women would go to.

i don't see the sense in illegalizing abortion, if you think it's wrong don't have one, but you have to accept that not everyone shares your view...
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Postby Gordon » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:27 pm UTC

lani wrote:I think the reason South Dakota actually passed the abortion ban was to boost a sagging coat hanger industry.

hahaha

Pro-choice.

Also I just wanted to point that the whole sex law thing in Ontario, I believe it's if you're 14 or 15 it's legal to have sex with someone within 2 years of your own age (to extra protect from seniors date raping freshmen), but if you're 16 or over there's no restrictions. Of course having a little sister who just entered highschool no boys better be getting any ideas *shakes fist*
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Postby Teaspoon » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:15 am UTC

On the topic of sex in early teens, I would expect the societies that frown on it to have higher teen pregnancy and sexually-transmitted disease rates. Teenagers are probably going to have sex when they damn well please regardless of the restrictions their parents and larger society try to place on them. They'll just take steps to avoid getting into trouble for it.

If you're going to have sex and try to avoid getting caught doing it, are you going to be comfortable going to buy condoms? If it's illegal to have sex, you may not be permitted to buy them in the first place. If you don't want your parents to find out, you'll have trouble buying them because you need to avoid being seen by people who might gossip about it.

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Postby Lani » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:17 am UTC

Actually, I read an article not too long ago that said that people are having sex at the same age, just getting married older. I'll have to find that article, it was really interesting...
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Postby thefiddler » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:18 am UTC

They don't check when you buy condoms (at least in all the stores around here).
I have no idea why, though.
*shrugs*
And most people I know don't care if you see them buying condoms; they talk freely of their sex lives anyway.

Some people's parents buy the condoms for their children, which seems a bit strange to me, but whatever...

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Postby Toeofdoom » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:18 am UTC

Gordon wrote:
lani wrote:I think the reason South Dakota actually passed the abortion ban was to boost a sagging coat hanger industry.

hahaha

Pro-choice.

Also I just wanted to point that the whole sex law thing in Ontario, I believe it's if you're 14 or 15 it's legal to have sex with someone within 2 years of your own age (to extra protect from seniors date raping freshmen), but if you're 16 or over there's no restrictions. Of course having a little sister who just entered highschool no boys better be getting any ideas *shakes fist*


Actually, its like that in australia, except that it starts at 10. That just seems... wierd... but i suppose it doesnt do any harm. i think.



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Postby Peshmerga » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:11 am UTC

I think they should just state that no one can have sex with anyone younger than 16 years of age.

I'm pro-abortion if it's early stage; if you hold it off until like 7 weeks into, that's kind of fucked up.
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Postby thefiddler » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:14 am UTC

I'd rather abortion be legal than having my friend (who will remain unnamed) ask me to punch her in the uterus. :(

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Postby Lani » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:29 am UTC

Peshmerga wrote:I think they should just state that no one can have sex with anyone younger than 16 years of age.

I'm pro-abortion if it's early stage; if you hold it off until like 7 weeks into, that's kind of fucked up.


Problem: age of the fetus is measured from a woman's last period. A woman is usually fertile about two weeksish after Shark Week. She may not know for certain that she is pregnant until about 6 or 7 weeks.
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Postby Belial » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:27 am UTC

Which is why I prefer the "Until you have your own circulatory system" measurement.
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Postby Peshmerga » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:31 am UTC

How other than carelessness can a woman procure a child and not know it?
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Postby aldimond » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:41 am UTC

I think the canonical example is the failure of any typical birth-control method.

So much of what our bodies do is pretty strongly separated from our conscious thought.
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Postby Toeofdoom » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:42 am UTC

Damn it, we already debated abortion for every year of high school >.>
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Postby no-genius » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:44 am UTC

Maybe she slipped, and... no wait, thats not likely at all :P
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Postby no-genius » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:13 am UTC

lanicita wrote:Skipping the abortion discussion (*cough pro-choice especially since reading Tbe Cider House Rules cough*)... I'll be 20 on March 25th. It'll be a sad, sad day. I like being a teenager. Being able to be stupid, and blaming it on my age. Can't do that when I'm 20.


we're adults now, and its up to us to decide what that means :D
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Postby Hawknc » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:01 am UTC

And for us, adulthood clearly means that we should act like irresponsible teenagers. :P

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Postby Gordon » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:28 am UTC

I got pregnant from the toilet seat.
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Postby Lani » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:15 am UTC

Peshmerga wrote:How other than carelessness can a woman procure a child and not know it?


Not wanting to drag this any further into debate, all I will say is this:

The average woman has a good 40 years of fertility.

That is an awfully long time to go without slipping up.
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Postby German Sausage » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:17 am UTC

pro-choice all the way. i may not like it, but then i wont do it. problem solved.

an inspiration is a Christian friend of mine who is against gay marriage, and plans to follow through on this by not marrying any men.
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Postby no-genius » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:25 am UTC

German Sausage wrote:pro-choice all the way. i may not like it, but then i wont do it. problem solved.

an inspiration is a Christian friend of mine who is against gay marriage, and plans to follow through on this by not marrying any men.


*Is reminded of a routine about two gay men who were taken off a flight for kissing.*

"But.. thats un-natural"
"We're flying!"
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The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Why? It does nothing to address dance music's core problem: the fact that it sucks.

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Postby TheTankengine » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:25 am UTC

thefiddler wrote:
TheTankengine wrote:Sodomize a cactus? Go right ahead just be careful with that last one and try not to bother me too much.

Priceless. You're my new hero.

TheTankengine wrote:Birthdays + Abortion discussion = I love the xkcd fora!

Me too, darling. Me too.


Thank you good sir!
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Postby Vandole » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:21 am UTC

Mine's 1990/01/06. Just entered the "awkward" age of 17 now. Have no idea what you guys are talking about, then again I don't care for alcohol, and I could get porn now if I wanted it easily, thanks to the tubes. Though I need to start driving soon.

Abortion: I'm pro-abortion, and it basically comes down to this for me: Is taking another human life inherently a crime, no matter what the circumstances? It's an important question that falls completely on your own morals. If you had a chance to kill a toddler who would end up a mass-murderer, would you do it? Do the ends justify the means?

So as this applies to abortion, we'll use an example:
There is a pregnant girl. She's young, foolish and didn't really know about protection. Her parents are absolutely against premarital sex, and her boyfriend freaked out when she told him she might be pregnant. So if she has the baby, she's out on the street on her own. Which weighs less on your conscience, killing an infant before it has cognitive thought, or allowing the mother and child to live in terrible conditions and suffering for the rest of their lives? To me, ending a life before it has truly begun is much more socially justifiable than to knowingly destroy two lives.

And one notes that poor people are the ones getting abortions. Rich women and people equipped to raise a child properly generally are better at prevention or actually willing to raise a child.

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Postby no-genius » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:45 am UTC

Curse you page break, you have foiled me once again

Vandole: Perhaps one should note that thats a fairly unrealistic situation. (although I can't say that it wouldn't happen.) Also your example of killing a toddler is flawed - if we kill a toddler, we don't know if it would grow up to be a mass-murderer (and yet clearly some of them do).

Vandole wrote:And one notes that poor people are the ones getting abortions. Rich women and people equipped to raise a child properly generally are better at prevention or actually willing to raise a child.


Where did one note this from? Was it a reliable source? Assuming it is, is that data from all abortion clinics - are there private ones that rich women might go to? Maybe rather than being unwilling to raise a child, poor people can't afford to have large families. Statistically having more abortions doesn't necessarily mean they don't have any children. Whatever, I think you need to justify that statement.

Also you implied that women aren't people :P
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Postby Lani » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:05 am UTC

Vandole wrote:And one notes that poor people are the ones getting abortions. Rich women and people equipped to raise a child properly generally are better at prevention or actually willing to raise a child.


I would have to say that's pretty untrue. What is your source on this? Everything I've read does not indicate that abortion is more common according to economic status.

Also, in Hispanic families, for example, as many of them are Catholic, abortion is not common. There are many Hispanic families with low income who chose to bear the child to the full term rather than get an abortion.
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Postby Belial » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:16 pm UTC

I'm november 12, and as a former zygote, against abortion. I don't often discuss it on teh intarweb, because it's far too easy to misunderstand each other...


Out of curiousity, and not being confrontational....

As a current human, are you against war and the death penalty as well?
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Postby German Sausage » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:18 pm UTC

is anyone truly FOR those? one might argue justification for them, but does anyone believe that war is inherently positive? or the death penalty?
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Postby thefiddler » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:02 pm UTC

TheTankengine wrote:
thefiddler wrote:
TheTankengine wrote:Sodomize a cactus? Go right ahead just be careful with that last one and try not to bother me too much.

Priceless. You're my new hero.

TheTankengine wrote:Birthdays + Abortion discussion = I love the xkcd fora!

Me too, darling. Me too.

Thank you good sir!

*would like to point out that she is, in fact, not a "sir," but a "lady"*


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