Bisexuality

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Griffin
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Bisexuality

Postby Griffin » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:33 am UTC

This was sort of indirectly inspired by a comment in the "celebrating differences" thread, but it's been something I've been wanting to post about for a while.

What with the spread of bisexuality locally (a significant portion of my high school now identifies as such, somewhere around 20-30%, and as time goes by it has spread to many other areas of where I live) it has been coming up more and more amongst those I know.

So, as sort of general thing, there are three things I am wondering:
Is this a trend that is occurring in other areas too, or is it merely local?

Something I've heard time and time again is people, those who are perfectly fine with gay people, getting literally pissed off at the concept that people are bisexual. They say things like "They should just learn to choose." and "They're not really bi, they just can't admit their gay" and mostly treat them the way most religious nuts treat agnostics, with that patronizing tone of "Being bisexual doesn't mean your a bad person, it just means your an idiot who can't make up their mind! Also, you're a bad person." Wtf is up with that? Of course, there's a range in reactions, but there almost always seems to be this anger at them, and I just don't get it. Can someone explain it to me? Worst of all, I've even heard this kind of stuff coming from homosexuals and the like - you think if anyone would be understanding and supportive... though I suppose every group has its jerks, trolls, and bigots.

And finally, what exactly makes a person "bisexual". Is it someone willing to have sex with those of both sexes, despite a preference, based on the individual? Someone who really has no preference? Does it include those who experiment occasionally, but are otherwise perfectly happy with their preferred gender?
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby AvalonXQ » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:44 am UTC

To tell you the truth, I've always generally had issues with categorizing sexual orientation at all. It's based on a false premise -- namely, that who you're sexually attracted to should depend primarily on that person's gender (or sex; I've seen it defined both ways). I don't actually believe that most of the traits that people find sexually attractive are actually primarily determined by that person's sex, and that when people describe themselves according to a given sexual orientation, what they're actually doing is buying into society's preconceptions about gender roles. They take a look at the "ideal man" and the "ideal woman", as taught by society, and they choose one (or both, or neither), and they say, "I'm attracted to that!"
This is easy to do, since most of us are VERY dedicated to acting out as close to our gender ideal as we can -- society makes darn sure we do this.
Now, some people actually are primarily attracted based on primarily and secondary physical characteristics. I just feel like it's not as many as society would have us think.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Cycle » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:05 am UTC

I don't see how anyone who is ok with homosexuality could think bisexuality is bad. If you accept that different people like to have sex with different genders, why can't people enjoy having sex with both? Or neither, for that matter?

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby ascendingPig » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:09 am UTC

I realize it's not a good thing for me to feel this way, but even though I myself am attracted to both men and women I find myself resenting most other people who identify as bisexual.

It seems like the men only sleep with men because they're easier than girls, and the women only sleep with women because they're drunk. They're not ALL like that, but sometimes that's what it feels like.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Belial » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:12 am UTC

Eh. It stands to reason that they wouldn't be sleeping with those guys, easy or no, if they weren't at least somewhat attracted to them, no?
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby DarkKnightJared » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:32 am UTC

Seeing as how "bisexual" is the closest way I can describe my orientation, I definately think it's okay--self-interest.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Jjarro » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:38 am UTC

I think bisexuals have got it more honest and balanced than most other people. I mean, I generally think "eww, man-on-man sex" when it comes to the idea of being attracted to another guy (NOTE: this is a purely personal preference, and I think other people having man-on-man sex is just fine), but there are fleeting moments where I realize "You know, if I wasn't so grossed out by that, it would be a fine thing to be able to enjoy" - and I already sometimes experience the momentary attraction or impulse that would lead to enjoyment, which is then rapidly overcome by gut reaction. The attraction is already extremely fleeting, and is always to some aspect that I would characterize as "feminine" anyway. And this rare moment is nothing compared to the fleeting attraction I have to almost every young, healthy female I encounter. Perhaps with age my "gross!" reaction will fade; I don't really care, because I'm quite satisfied to be heterosexual.

Also, I think that girls are generally more bisexual then men - this is purely based on observation, but my theory is that while women are generally gorgeous, men are generally not, and this makes it much easier for women to be bisexual - since they (for reasons of their own) are generally attracted to men in the first place.

My bias in attraction shows through in this theory, but it's all I've got.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Mr. Mack » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:07 am UTC

Griffin wrote:They say things like "They should just learn to choose." and "They're not really bi, they just can't admit their gay" . . .

(Emphasis added)
That's probably because a newspaper told them that science said so. Of course, those particular scientists could be wrong, couldn't they?

It's been a few years since I took psychology, and at the time the studies on sexuality didn't get much attention from me because, well, I don't think sex is all that interesting. Anyways. . .
If I recall correctly, the overall message in the textbook was basically, "We don't know, just do whatever." As fundamental as sex is, sexuality appeared to be an incredibly complicated issue. (Rest spoiler'd due to being long-winded conjecture)
Spoiler:
When it's just a question of gay or straight, it all seems pretty straight forward, and straight back, and then straight forward again (try not to read that last part). Then when you throw bisexuality into the mix, it suddenly becomes a little confusing, but the nature of bisexuality itself makes it very confusing. If it was just as straightforward as "I like both equally," then it may not have been as big of an issue. But it isn't that simple, there's supposed to degrees of sexual attraction and mental attraction and something else that I just don't understand at all. That might be the basis of the anger, a lot of people don't like confusing things that are hard to understand.

For instance, have you ever met someone and thought, "That guy's gay, not that there's anything wrong with that." Well, really it should be, "That guy's either gay, bisexual, or just in touch with his feminine side; and there's nothing wrong with any of those." That's more confusion than most people care for. Now throw pansexuality and asexuality into the mix. Now it's pretty much chaos, anything is possible, nothing is simple, and snap judgements are worthless. It doesn't matter if that's all natural and correct, what matters is that it isn't what people prefer and it isn't what cartoons and fairy tales told them as children. Thus, anger ensues.

Another, much simpler possibility stems from another study I read (in two different locations, it's a neat study). Basically, what it found was that people who just hate homosexuals, are usually gay. So maybe some degree of bisexuality is the default and some people can't stand to admit it.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Ari » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:19 am UTC

ascendingPig wrote:I realize it's not a good thing for me to feel this way, but even though I myself am attracted to both men and women I find myself resenting most other people who identify as bisexual.

It seems like the men only sleep with men because they're easier than girls, and the women only sleep with women because they're drunk. They're not ALL like that, but sometimes that's what it feels like.


Thankyou for saving me the time of replying to Cycle, lol. :)

and aP- as Belial points out- you wouldn't sleep with someone you're not at least somewhat attracted to. I'd say it's true, from personal experience, that some people who identify as bisexual experience weaker homosexual attraction and stronger heterosexual attraction. That doesn't mean they don't necessarily experience both types of attraction, though ;)

Mr. Mack wrote:Another, much simpler possibility stems from another study I read (in two different locations, it's a neat study). Basically, what it found was that people who just hate homosexuals, are usually gay. So maybe some degree of bisexuality is the default and some people can't stand to admit it.


I think I know the study you're referring to- that men claiming to hate homosexuality appeared aroused while watching homosexual erotica. However, you do need to keep in mind that other emotions trigger erections than attraction- in fact, hate can trigger erections. So they may not really have proven anything at all there.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Cooley » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:22 am UTC

As a heterosexual male, I can't say I have much experience with bisexual people, but I have known a few homosexuals. They seem nice enough. I imagine bisexuals would be the same, but with a larger dating pool, is all. Really, a person is a person, regardless of who they're attracted too.

I can't imagine being attracted to a man, but I have little trouble with sympathizing with women, so I really don't know where I fit on the scale... Probably just the hetero side.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:35 am UTC

They're jealous that they're missing out on both worlds? ;-)
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Cooley » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:41 am UTC

Most everyone walks around with one orange (oranges are delicious, who wouldn't want one?), and then they see some people with two. Wouldn't everyone get mad at them? Can you even imagine if someone didn't like oranges?! :shock:

At the very least they would be misunderstood.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby DarkKnightJared » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:44 am UTC

Jjarro wrote:Also, I think that girls are generally more bisexual then men - this is purely based on observation, but my theory is that while women are generally gorgeous, men are generally not, and this makes it much easier for women to be bisexual - since they (for reasons of their own) are generally attracted to men in the first place.


Mayhaps it's less that girls are generally more bisexual but that there's some cultural influence on people when it comes to it? I don't remember the study off-hand, but I seem to remember something that since girls are generally raised to be more affectionate and a lot of guys after they reach puberty want to see girl-on-girl action, they're more willing to experiment like that. On the other hand, men are raised to be hard and strong, and view any form of affection towards other men to be "faggy" and are ostracized for it. Personally I think there's the same amount of male bisexuals as there are female, the difference being that the males don't want to think about it or keep it in the closet.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Belial » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:46 am UTC

Cooley wrote:Most everyone walks around with one orange (oranges are delicious, who wouldn't want one?), and then they see some people with two. s?! :shock:
Wouldn't everyone get mad at them?


Not really. Because the analogy isn't complete unless there were more than enough oranges to go around, and *everyone* had the option to take two oranges, and most of them just opted out.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Jjarro » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:49 am UTC

Let's not forget the mono-normative culture formed around most people taking only one orange, and carrying it only in their left hand.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Cooley » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:55 am UTC

Ah yes, of course. How could I have forgotten. All that to my hastily constructed analogy. :D

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Dextrose » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:29 am UTC

Everybody seems to want bisexuals to be lying about it. I don't see why. In fact, it really irritates me I'm told I am lying, like some crackpot team of whitecoats with diodes on my scrote (lol rhyme) would know my own head better than I do. It's really unsettling to know that so many people are convinced that bisexuals aren't actually bisexuals, they're just assholes. To those people: Does it make your day better to accuse me of being dishonest about the way I think and talk about my own sexuality? I don't think it does, and it certainly makes mine worse, so why don't you shut your goddamn mouth?

Yes, I believe a lot of women lie about being bisexual - some going as far as to have uninspiring, unsatisfying sex with other women - in order to get more sex with guys. I think a lot of guys probably do the same thing to pull chicks. I'm annoyed that these people exist, but it's not my place - and certainly not the place of anybody who hasn't experienced being ridiculed from all sides of the sexual spectrum - to accuse someone of lying. Seriously not a cool thing to do.

Edit: Cooley, I know some people who don't like oranges at all. I don't understand them.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Belial » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:36 am UTC

Really, who cares if someone's "lying" about their sexual orientation. "Oh noes, she's having sex with girls but she doesn't really want to!" ....

Well, clearly she does, or it wouldn't be sex, it would be rape.

"But she doesn't really want to, deep in her heart/pants! She's doing it for all the wrong reasons!"

Okay. That sucks for her I guess. Why do we care?
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby tetromino » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:44 am UTC

Griffin wrote:What with the spread of bisexuality locally (a significant portion of my high school now identifies as such, somewhere around 20-30%, and as time goes by it has spread to many other areas of where I live) it has been coming up more and more amongst those I know.

So, as sort of general thing, there are three things I am wondering:
Is this a trend that is occurring in other areas too, or is it merely local?

Sexuality is driven by fashion and cultural norms. IMHO, very few people are hard-wired from birth into a given form of sexuality; instead, they grow up to do whatever they were imprinted to do in their childhood/teen years. In parts of Ancient Greece, all upper-class men were expected to be bisexual. Were they born genetically bi? Hell no. Put a Spartan kid in a time machine, have him grow up in a standard American household, and with a 90% probability, he will come out straight. But he did not grow up in an American household. He grew up in the barracks, where he was taught to suck dick for king and country, just like all of his best friends, and just like all the older cool kids that he looked up to.

Conversely, look at another historical society - Soviet Union in the 70's. Take a Soviet girl growing up in those times, transport her to a modern family - and with some non-negligible probability, she will be gay by her twenties. But back then? She would literally be unaware of the concept of lesbianism. And unless she somehow managed to come up with the idea on her own, she would be guaranteed to grow up straight, and marry, and have kids, no matter what subconscious urges she had back when she was 12.

What I am trying to say is, the recent rise of bisexuality is a fad. Kids are doing it because other kids are doing it. And there is nothing wrong with this - because traditional Western monogamous heterosexuality is another fad, only a more popular one.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Jjarro » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:50 am UTC

Right! She's being sexual with another woman. She prefers to be sexual with men. She can be sexual with both, and in fact has! I guess she's bisexual.

Now, I'd easily believe that a lot of people who identify as bi have a gender preference, even a strong one. I know a girl who's been with the same guy for years, and is "openly" bi. I put it in quotes like that because it doesn't come up much, and she's never (to my knowledge) acted on it. So she's attracted to men and women, but has experience only with men. Generally, people find out she's bi only when she talks about how attractive certain women are, and only then if they don't think she's joking.

On the other hand, I have another female friend who has actually engaged in sexual activity with another woman. She did it to get to us guys, of course. It was fun for everyone. She identifies as straight, but don't tell me she wasn't enjoying sexual contact with that other woman. She was. I was there. All that said, this is a girl who goes after guys exclusively. She wasn't "lying" when she was enjoying herself with another woman - she was honestly having a good time. I certainly don't think any less of her for it.... but I'm biased.

Really biased.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby taarnling » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:51 am UTC

I really can't see why anyone would want to be bisexual. Relationships are complicated enough when you're only interested in one gender, who would want to double the trouble. I think all of you so-called bisexuals out there are just trying to make life more complicated for everyone!
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Honestly though, myself I tend to think that if everyone could get rid of their hang-ups of various types that we'd all be a lot happier bring bisexual.

It seems to me that, at least some of the time, people get mad at people for 'lying' about their sexual orientation for the same reason that people get mad at so-called 'posers'. Not that I have a really good grasp about why that is, but I think the similarity is there.

tetromino wrote:Sexuality is driven by fashion and cultural norms. IMHO, very few people are hard-wired into a given form of sexuality; instead, they grow up to do whatever they were imprinted to do in their childhood/teen years. In parts of Ancient Greece, all upper-class men were expected to be bisexual. Were they born genetically bi? Hell no. Put a Spartan kid in a time machine, have him grow up in a standard American household, and with a 90% probability, he will come out straight. But he did not grow up in an American household. He grew up in the barracks, where he was taught to suck dick for king and country, just like all of his best friends, and just like all the older cool kids that he looked up to.

Conversely, look at another historical society - Soviet Union in the 70's. Take a Soviet girl growing up in those times, transport her to a modern family - and with some non-negligible probability, she will be gay by her twenties. But back then? She would literally be unaware of the concept of lesbianism. And unless she somehow managed to come up with the idea on her own, she would be guaranteed to grow up straight, and marry, and have kids, no matter what subconscious urges she had back when she was 12.

What I am trying to say is, the recent rise of bisexuality is a fad. Kids are doing it because other kids are doing it. And there is nothing wrong with this - because traditional Western monogamous heterosexuality is another fad, only a more popular one.


I think I pretty much agree with you here, that sexual orientation is largely a function of culture. However it seems that there is a large component that isn't a part of that, whether from biology or whatever. I haven't got any good examples, or the time to look for them, but society always manages to crop up people who deviate from the norm. I've got little doubt that the Greeks had people who remained stubbornly non-bisexual, just like we have people deviating from the norm all over the place. (Which, for the record, I think is mostly a good thing.)

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Jjarro » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:09 am UTC

I think you're right. Being bi is a fine thing for people that can do it. I mean, it may be that I'm bi, and just so strongly favor women that I don't register as being attracted to men, due to the huge difference in level of attraction. I think that element will remain even as my "eww mansex" reaction fades.

I like the posers question. People hate "posers" because the posers take value from something that a person identifies with and cheapen it, make it common, in the eyes of that person.
This is partly because people often have a collectivist tendency to externalize their identity - so "real" goths hate "poser goths" and people accuse Obama of being "not black enough." It becomes especially ironic when someone who is joining a certain culture to feel more unique does it - since they're embracing a collectivist feeling in the name of individualism.
So if a gay person says "It's my right to be gay if I want!" then gets angry about bisexuals (or even just a particular bisexual, as long as the bisexuality is tied to the complaint) because they're "not committed" or "indecisive" or "sluts" or "don't care about gay pride" or whatever else, they're being a hypocrite and doing a disservice to everyone involved.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby taarnling » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:15 am UTC

That's a really good explanation for it I think Jjarro. Just what I was thinking, but actually articulated instead of just bouncing in my head.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Jessica » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:47 pm UTC

People in general dislike individuals who cross divides, or who blur boxes.
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Personally, I know a lot of bisexual people. I know a lot of gay/lesbian people. I know even more straight people. All of my friends who are bi are not lying about it. They like both, for different reasons. It's hard for all of them at times.

I'm a lesbian identified M2F trans. So, I know about being hated for not being in a box.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby zahlman » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:59 pm UTC

AvalonXQ wrote:It's based on a false premise -- namely, that who you're sexually attracted to should depend primarily on that person's gender (or sex; I've seen it defined both ways). I don't actually believe that most of the traits that people find sexually attractive are actually primarily determined by that person's sex


I'm pretty damn confident that the traits I find sexually attractive are overwhelmingly correlated with sex hormones, which are in turn strongly correlated with gender (given that transsexuals, intersexed people etc. make up a very small percentage of the population).

I don't have a problem with bisexuality. Quite the opposite: I get the impression that a lot of bisexual people don't want to admit to it.

In any case, I can't, personally, fathom the idea of willingly having sex with someone who doesn't even share the same bits as the archetype of the people you claim to find sexually attractive.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby AvalonXQ » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:06 pm UTC

zahlman wrote:
AvalonXQ wrote:It's based on a false premise -- namely, that who you're sexually attracted to should depend primarily on that person's gender (or sex; I've seen it defined both ways). I don't actually believe that most of the traits that people find sexually attractive are actually primarily determined by that person's sex


I'm pretty damn confident that the traits I find sexually attractive are overwhelmingly correlated with sex hormones, which are in turn strongly correlated with gender (given that transsexuals, intersexed people etc. make up a very small percentage of the population).

I don't have a problem with bisexuality. Quite the opposite: I get the impression that a lot of bisexual people don't want to admit to it.

In any case, I can't, personally, fathom the idea of willingly having sex with someone who doesn't even share the same bits as the archetype of the people you claim to find sexually attractive.


Emphasis added. And this is where the problem comes in. What if most of the things we're attracted to aren't actually associated with our bits at all? So rather than "someone who doesn't even share the same bits", we're talking about, "someone who shares everything but the same bits"?
If I'm attracted to soft, graceful, small, melodious, docile, emotional, etc. then according to society, I'm attracted to women.
If I'm attracted to strong, primal, large, dominant, practical, violent, simple, etc. then according to society, I'm attracted to men.
It doesn't have to be this way, because again, I claim that individual variation actually trumps gender as a determining factor on most of these qualities. But we've taught men and women to each downplay or emphasize these qualities according to their gender. So we end up with a much more polar view of sexual attraction than we actually need.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby zahlman » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:11 pm UTC

Dextrose wrote:I think a lot of guys probably (lie about being bisexual) to pull chicks.


I doubt that, because I doubt it would work. Except maybe at an anime convention or in a similarly counter-cultural setting.

I think almost every straight guy out there would tell you he'd still expect to be sexually attracted to women if he woke up one morning and his bits had been magically altered into the standard female set. I'm doubtful that the reverse is true. But I could be horribly, horribly wrong.

@Avalon: I'm attracted to sticking out at the front and back and indenting at the middle. I'm also attracted to female genitalia. If I were dating someone and "it" turned out to "be a trap" (no trans-bashing is intended with the choice of pronoun; "it's a trap" is a meme), I would be horrified, not (so much) because of having been deceived, but because of being confronted with male genitalia in a sexual context. It's just not what I want to see down there. And I strongly, strongly doubt you can convince me that I've merely been socialized into this.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Jessica » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:49 pm UTC

Zahl, I'd say your desire to be with a woman not a man (and the parts associated with that) isn't socialized.
But, I'd say that you're "ewwww" reaction to the thought of even being with a man, or finding out a woman still has boy parts (or had boy parts) is more socialized than not.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby cypherspace » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:09 pm UTC

tetromino wrote:Conversely, look at another historical society - Soviet Union in the 70's. Take a Soviet girl growing up in those times, transport her to a modern family - and with some non-negligible probability, she will be gay by her twenties. But back then? She would literally be unaware of the concept of lesbianism. And unless she somehow managed to come up with the idea on her own, she would be guaranteed to grow up straight, and marry, and have kids, no matter what subconscious urges she had back when she was 12.
Why do you feel that to be so impossible? Your reasoning suggests that there were no gay people in the Soviet Union. I highly doubt that.

For my part, I have kissed a man, and find many men quite attractive. But I have absolutely no interest - none - in holding, sucking on, or being fucked by, a penis.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby ascendingPig » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:30 pm UTC

There's some tribe in Papua New Guinea where the young boys are expected to perform oral sex on older boys as part of their development. It's considered only healthy. So these boys actually homosexual acts when young, because society is open to it.

However, the same tribe has pretty much exactly the same rates of adult homosexuality, which is frowned upon as immature, as we have in the West, so in the end I'm convinced sexuality is largely inherent.

My point is, there are these apparently straight boys engaging in homosexual acts. Why? Because they can, and because it feels nice. I think a lot of bisexual people, especially guys, really are straight or gay but really like the way, say, a vagina feels, or think guys give better head or just sleep opportunistically with anyone who looks clean who's willing to fall into bed with them.

And my experience with girls seems to indicate that women almost always are attracted to other women, but not so much that they'd be willing to endure vaginas to be with them. Any sane person would admit that vaginas are, on the whole, pretty nasty. And if you can just snag a really pretty boy, that's fine and less gross.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Belial » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:47 pm UTC

Any sane person would admit that vaginas are, on the whole, pretty nasty.


You take that back. You are filled with lies. Lies and bees.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Jessica » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:55 pm UTC

I disagree that bi people are really one side or the other, and just happen to enjoy some time with the opposite side. I disagree because I've spoken to numerous bi people, and none of them are "really straight" or "really gay". Yes, it's anecdotal, but it does disprove for all statements.
Last edited by Jessica on Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:27 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Woxor » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 pm UTC

Gharbad wrote:disprove tautologies...

Aaa! Logic is in trouble. :D

Belial wrote:Really, who cares if someone's "lying" about their sexual orientation. "Oh noes, she's having sex with girls but she doesn't really want to!" ....

Well, clearly she does, or it wouldn't be sex, it would be rape.

"But she doesn't really want to, deep in her heart/pants! She's doing it for all the wrong reasons!"

Okay. That sucks for her I guess. Why do we care?

It's not really anyone's business, but it can be annoying because the people who falsely claim a given orientation can give it a bad name. If women are kissing each other for attention and then later flake out of any sort of committed bisexuality, that gives the impression to the observer that bisexual females are really just in it for attention, and aren't really bisexual. In reality, there are truly bisexual people of both (all?) genders, and I'm guessing that they find it a little annoying to be stereotyped as attention whores.

Now some people might be both (bisexual and attention-whorey), but it's not fair to pose as bisexual, drag that name through the mud by being vapid and flakey, and then not have to worry about it because you're straight and aren't affected by the public perception of bisexuality. It's a minor grievance, but I can understand people having a problem with it.

And of course, on the flip side, there's nothing inherently wrong with having a sexual orientation that allows a minor amount of bisexuality while remaining primarily straight (or gay).

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Neris » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:03 pm UTC

I don't consider myself bisexual even though I've slept with a couple of girls and dated one.

I think women's bodies and vaginas are beautiful! But the reason I say I'm not bisexual is because when I had a girlfriend, she loved me all but the feeling wasn't mutual to me it was purely sexual and as hard as I tried I couldn't connect with her emotionally and realized that I most likely will never connect with any girl emotionally as I do with men... not in a relationship anyway.

If we're talking purely on the basis of pleasure then I don't see a problem with bisexuality. I see no reason why two people of the same sex can't pleasure each other.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:23 pm UTC

Neris wrote:But the reason I say I'm not bisexual is because when I had a girlfriend, she loved me all but the feeling wasn't mutual to me it was purely sexual and as hard as I tried I couldn't connect with her emotionally and realized that I most likely will never connect with any girl emotionally as I do with men... not in a relationship anyway.


...aaand I'm the exact opposite (I can fall in love with women. I can keep up only-sexual relationships with men, but I don't really want to at the moment. For the sake of thinks like this thread I can say "homoflexible."). I'm kind of surprised and yet not-surprised that this thread can get so far without talking about love, and I'm glad you brought it up.

I think the love part, the people-you-would-seek-a-meaningful-romantic-relationship-with, is important.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Masuri » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:34 pm UTC

I'm not sure what I am. A pretty girl is just as likely as a pretty boy to turn my head. Almost none of my porn is of men - all women. I've dallied with women and it's fun, but I've never had a relationship with one. Mostly, there is a one-PMS-per-relationship rule that I adhere to. So, I'm attracted to women and men, but really only want to have a serious relationship with men.

I think. I mean, one of my lesbian friends said she thinks I'd be a lot happier with a woman. Maybe I shouldn't knock it til I've tried it.

So where does that put me on the whatever-sexual meter? Straight but not narrow, maybe?

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby AvalonXQ » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:30 am UTC

Masuri wrote:I'm not sure what I am. A pretty girl is just as likely as a pretty boy to turn my head. Almost none of my porn is of men - all women. I've dallied with women and it's fun, but I've never had a relationship with one. Mostly, there is a one-PMS-per-relationship rule that I adhere to. So, I'm attracted to women and men, but really only want to have a serious relationship with men.

I think. I mean, one of my lesbian friends said she thinks I'd be a lot happier with a woman. Maybe I shouldn't knock it til I've tried it.

So where does that put me on the whatever-sexual meter? Straight but not narrow, maybe?


How about, you're YOU, and people's insistence that you be classified is oppressive and unnecessary?

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby mspickle » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:14 am UTC

OK, I think that at different times and with different people, some people are attracted to people of the same sex.

Sometimes people take an attraction and sexualize it. It may actually not have been primarily a sexual attraction. But the culture tends to want to categorize all attraction as sexual. It may really be about intimacy or connection or some other psychological reason.

I'm also older than most of you. Right now being "bi" is trendy. When I was younger, most girls didn't admit it if they were bi. I think the percentage of people who are really bi and not just being trendy is about the amount of people who are bi when it ISN'T trendy. (I do know people who have done this just because it's hip at the moment, and a woman saying she's bi tends to attract more straight men. I know a woman who loved men and had kids, had a very hot husband, but she is very into pop culture et al, and suddenly she "came out" as a lesbian to everyone. She moved in with her lover who has always been a lesbian. Anyway, after a year or two she got tired of it and went back to her husband. In the meantime her children and this man really suffered because she was ditzy and just wanted to look chic for having had a lesbian lover.)

There are female-female bonding behaviors and male-male bonding behaviors. Without the influence of the culture around us, these behaviors, even kissing and affection, would not be actually sexual. I think people rush to sexualize attractions that are really based on something else. Not everything is about sex.

I know a lot of gay men and almost all of them tend to be narcissists. Not that they all are, but so many of them do worship themselves and the male body in general. The lesbians I know tend to be very protective and want to rescue people. Just my observations, which may or may not be valid.

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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Ati » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:21 am UTC

Honestly, I don't care who people sleep with, so long as no-one is coerced or harmed.

I think bisexuality is a perfectly healthy sexual preference (consisting of a large number of varying degrees). I think some people probably do lie about it, but I don't think it's the majority.
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Re: Bisexuality

Postby Spill Wooner » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:17 am UTC

Woxor wrote:Now some people might be both (bisexual and attention-whorey), but it's not fair to pose as bisexual, drag that name through the mud by being vapid and flakey, and then not have to worry about it because you're straight and aren't affected by the public perception of bisexuality. It's a minor grievance, but I can understand people having a problem with it.


This actually covers a good deal of bi-hate. Someone who's comfortable, mature and bi won't be in the closet, but won't be shouting it from the rooftops either. The people who make the most "have I told you today just how bi I am?" noise tend to be, at best, vapid trend whores. And it's not hard to see why those people get a lot of hate.

As for the gay hate directed at bis, part of it has to do with aforementioned trend whore factor. A bit of it probably has to do with the number of "well, I could if I wanted to" types, which would frustrate me if someone kept sending signs my way but always backing out. And a lot if it is covered in these very conversations; if bisexuality is "a good choice" (paraphrasing several people's logic) while heterosexuality only retains the top spot by cultural inertia, that strongly implies that sexual orientation is something you chose. Anybody here want to go ask some gay board members why they chose that lifestyle?


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