Marijuana

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cypherspace
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Re: Marijuana

Postby cypherspace » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:20 pm UTC

Jonolith wrote: I cannot stress enough that I disagree entirely with taxing an entire people for anything. You're essentially saying, as a government, that your will is more important then the will of the people. The only reason people jump on healthcare is because it's so closely tied in to personal health, which people value so highly. If this was a tax for balloons to be tied onto signposts, people would complain.

In a democratic society, the will of the government IS the will of the people. Or at least, it's supposed to be. You tax the entire people because they have elected you on the basis that you know what's best for the most people.

I have a problem with the fact that you can drink bleach, and then demand to be hospitalized on the public dollar. Yes, its your body, but you also have to wear seatbelts in a car.
You still get to drive the car though, don't you? That's still a well-known unsafe activity. It's about a balance between personal freedom and personal safety, not a blanket ban. We don't ban bleach either.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby a thing » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:37 am UTC

DrPhibes wrote:For bigger countries like America or France or any big country, legalizing or just letting it be ok won't work that way, I saw a documentary about a pot smoking comedian who was in California and talking about the legalization (medicinal use) there, well, I think that could work in California but not in Tennessee, or anywhere were there is bad rehabilitation, because, lets face it, you will get more and more addicted people if you don't have a good program explaining the risks and side-effects. You don't have that allot in Holland because I was growing up knowing the dangers, Americans don't know the risks and it won't turn out like a country that can cope with it. Even other countries like France or Great Britain will have more problems.


Marijuana is not addictive.

DrPhibes wrote:Ooh, and I'm not going to talk about the growing and producing of marijuana, yes it costs allot and isn't good for anything except getting high


No.
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AtomicCow
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Re: Marijuana

Postby AtomicCow » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:07 am UTC

I don't really have the attention span to read every post, but mostly it's gone around the same basic premise.

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in:

Erowid and The Emperor Wears No Clothes

Two amazing sources of information for Cannabis. Erowid actually covers other drugs also.

Personal Favorite:
Erowid wrote:DMT is a powerful, visual psychedelic which produces short-acting effects when smoked. It is used orally in combination with an MAOI, as in ayahuasca brews. It is naturally produced in the human brain and by many plants.


Also

THC in pills? Personally the side effects listed made me chuckle: Side effects include euphoria, drowsiness, vertigo and dry mouth.

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Mabus_Zero
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Mabus_Zero » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:34 am UTC

Is there any real reason for the continued ban on marijuana other then the political disinformation relevant to it and the moral busy-bodies that think they should be able to limit what you can breathe, smoke, eat, drink or inject into yourself, with the aim of accomplishing a specific altered mental state?
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Happyhovercraft » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:45 am UTC

I have a friend who has the Multiple Sclerosis but suffer very little from the effects because of heavy marijuana-use. I actually didn't know untill i was told some days ago. I just thought he was a junkie. But it seems his parents and his doctor knows about it and supports him.

Weird

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Re: Marijuana

Postby a thing » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:34 am UTC

Mabus_Zero wrote:Is there any real reason for the continued ban on marijuana other then the political disinformation relevant to it and the moral busy-bodies that think they should be able to limit what you can breathe, smoke, eat, drink or inject into yourself, with the aim of accomplishing a specific altered mental state?


Someone's job depends on it.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Freakish » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:23 am UTC

420th post!
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Mabus_Zero » Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:44 am UTC

a thing wrote:Someone's job depends on it.


I'm ashamed that a country that prides itself in a history of independence, personal and otherwise, would have only such a 'because' reason to continue this farce.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby engine » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:39 am UTC

Turambar wrote:Marijuana isn't harmless, no drug is, but it's a great deal safer than alcohol or tobacco. Contrary to popular belief, it does NOT cause cancer (see Donald Tashkin's study). It is still harmful to the lungs and is associated with increased risk of bronchitis and chronic respiratory infections. It can cause significant impairment to short term memory and cognitive function while present in the body, but does not do a great deal of lasting damage to the brain. Prolonged use does seems to cause some permanent drooping in the eyelids. It can, however, sometimes take as much as months for THC to be fully removed from the system, as it is lipid-soluble and so gets stored in fat cells rather than in the body's water, like most drugs.

That's some scary language you're using. The fact of the matter is, marijuana is exponentially less harmful than alcohol and tobacco, not just slightly. If you described the effects of alcohol with the same language you used there, you'd need about 10-15 paragraphs. "Significant impairment to short term memory and cognitive function while present in the body" --> Yes, of course, that's called being high. It lasts for a matter of hours. Then you turn around and say "It can ... take as much as months for THC to be fully removed from the system"... Using language like that is going to scare naive or ignorant people into thinking that weed keeps you high and affects your memory for months.

Well you know, weed might "cause significant impairment to short term memory" for a few hours, but alcohol completely fucking wipes out entire blocks of time from your memory, FOREVER. The most hardcore weekend drunks have probably lost months worth of time from their memory. And what did they do during this memory-wiped time? Stumbled around, caused fights, insulted people, sexually harassed people... What do people do when they're stoned? Sit on the couch and talk about life. They don't have that destructive desire, outside of their personal morality, like drunk people do. You'll never do something baked that you wouldn't have done sober. Alcohol does this EVERY TIME. Remind me, which is worse, again? Which is more culturally accepted? Oh nevermind, let's just believe everything we're told. Fuck our own decisions based on research. That's for pussies.

Alcohol and tobacco both kill thousands of times as many people as marijuana and are far more addictive.

That's because marijuana has killed 0 people. Since the beginning of its recorded use. Look it up. The lethal dose is humanly impossible to take in the required time, unless you have giant fucking lungs (40,000 joints in 15 minutes). It's easier to die from chocolate than weed.

As long as those two are legal, there is no reason to be spending hundreds of millions of dollars a year on hunting down, prosecuting, and incarcerating people for the use and sale of marijuana. And as for the gateway drug aspect of it, that is due mainly to the fact that the markets for marijuana and other drugs have been conflated because of illegality. Marijuana's not a gateway drug in the Netherlands.

Exactly.

I'm not disagreeing with any of your points, I always dig pro-weed support of course, but in a debate like this, straight-forward language with no exaggeration or preference toward alcohol during comparisons, undeniable facts, and yes/no rhetoricals are what's gonna win legalization for us.

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Re: Marijuana

Postby a thing » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:56 am UTC

engine wrote:What do people do when they're stoned? Sit on the couch and talk about life. They don't have that destructive desire, outside of their personal morality, like drunk people do. You'll never do something baked that you wouldn't have done sober.


That is an exaggeration. I never go into nearly uncontrollable laughing fits when sober.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Charlie! » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:47 am UTC

engine wrote:That's because marijuana has killed 0 people. Since the beginning of its recorded use. Look it up. The lethal dose is humanly impossible to take

Not THC. Lung cancer.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Freakish » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:08 am UTC

Marijuana actually prevents cancer by killing off damage cells before they can replicate.
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Kaiyas
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Kaiyas » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:41 pm UTC

engine wrote:That's because marijuana has killed 0 people.

Kids, don't drink smoke and drive. :wink:
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Re: Marijuana

Postby bert5412 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:25 am UTC

lol, this makes me think back to D.A.R.E. which is the anti drug program at my school. The people who do presentations claim that 1 out of every 3 people die the first time they smoke pot. They also claim that at least 70% of all drugs you buy on the street are laced with cyanide. If either of these statistics are even close to true, about 200 of my classmates would be dead right now! It's definitely misinformation that is keeping pot illegal.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby KingLoser » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:41 am UTC

Freakish wrote:
Spoiler:
Erowid is a great site for information on drugs.

If you're smoking for your first time, the only really bad things that might happen are getting caught, and having a panic attack. Both can easily be avoided. Smoke where you won't see people like in your house (only if you don't need to worry about the smell) or in the woods. Just stay chill. I deal with my paranoia a head of time so that when I'm stoned I won't have to worry about anything.

Still assuming you're a first timer.

-You might not get stoned your first time. I didn't until my fourth.
-You might not feel it as quickly as experienced smokers. My first time I didn't feel it for about 10 minutes, now it's happens within a moment.
-If you're smoking a joint your shirt is going to stink. I usually wear a hoody while I smoke and then take it off before I enter my house.
-Follow what the more experienced smokers do, but take smaller hits. My buddy tells me that I aways smoke like a pro.
-Take smooth hits or you'll cough. When I smoke joints I'll loosen my lips around the joint to let some air in when it becomes a little harsh.
-Inhale. A lot of first timers just end up pulling smoke into their mouth and letting it out. Don't.
-Continue inhaling after you've taking your lips off the device/joint. If you let the smoke idle in your throat it will burn a bit. Constantly inhaling will get it all into your lungs.
-Don't wet lip the joint. It's just bad smoking edict.
-Bring water. I aways bring a bottle of water with me to drink during and after I smoke.
-Chill. Don't run around like an idiot annoying everyone.
-Notice your high. The first thing I noticed was the time distortion. I can spend half my high just examining my high, it's in describable. I wrote a post during my first high, about my first high
Freakish wrote:Okay... I think I've got a buzz. It's not feeling like I thought it would. Could be something else though. Everything before a minute ago feels like a dream, like I passed out, woke up and dreamt of me going outside and smoking the weed. Kind of hard to explain. Everything feels like it's moving when I loose focus. I've kind of got a tingly feeling in my arms. Kind of hard to focus on writing. My thoughts feel clear, like I'm thinking normally, but my body is acting differently. I've been writing this since 3:00 it's taking me quite a while. I feel like my eyes are zooming back and forth on what ever I look at. I don't think I'm feeling anything else.

---edit--- 3:26 am

Okay the smiling and laughter has come

-Bring some sort of time device. When I'm high it feels like it's been hours and seconds so I like to know what time it actually is.
-Not every thought needs to be voiced. If it's not part of a conversation don't say it. Everyone doesn't need to hear your stoned theories.
-Don't be a mooch. If you don't have any weed to chip in bring some food.

That's all I can think of right now. If I've forgotten anything add to it people.


That's the best advice I've ever seen for a first timer.

In Ireland, possession for personal use and supply are fully distinguished in law. So having, like, 5 grams will get you a slap on the wrist. Depending on the cop and situation, they might take it off you too. This has led to the complete extinction of the street dealer. You gotta know someone who (knows someone who knows someone who etc.) grows, or grow yourself. That alone is proof how prohibition is a failure in that all it does is create and feed the black market. There's no black market for cannabis in the Netherlands, there's only a half-arsed ones in placed like Czech Rep, Ireland etc. and there's a full blown enterprise in the US.

The people against legalization are generally just control fanatics.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby sakeniwefu » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:39 am UTC

I don't see any point in prohibiting any drug. The governments do it because it wins votes from their stupid voters and because they can(You could ban tobacco if it wouldn't mean losing a lot of money, but luckily alcohol is safe, as it magically appears as long as you have sugars and water).
The basic rule of human rights is that your rights end where other people's rights start. Why should we prohibit someone from using those rights? Because they use them to harm themselves?
If I smoke a joint of sulphuric acid I am okay but if the joint contains marijuana I am a criminal? As long as I don't hurt anybody I am not infringing on anyone's rights. Ban smoking(tobacco, marijuana, opium) in public places, ok. Ban smoking altogether, wtf?
Also, I do think that virtually all of the drug related crimes are due to them being illegal as shown by the Prohibition era, but even if it wasn't the case why shouldn't the individual be held completely responsible of his acts instead of sharing the blame with some plant derived product.
Hallucinogenic drugs(cacti, mushrooms) don't even have any lasting effect at all. Why ban them? Because they are fun?
Any person who believes in human rights and human freedom in general cannot be against the legalization of drugs.

That said, I wouldn't risk my(limited) freedom to spend a few minutes entertained, so I'll wait until they are legal.

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Re: Marijuana

Postby Lizzebed » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:26 pm UTC

It's not like the situation in the Netherlands is all that great. Sure we can buy our marihuana at a local coffeeshop. But often I can't get my hands on my favorite hasjies because the grower has once again been rolled up by the police.

Besides it is still illegal buying, selling and carrying the stuff. You just won't be prosecuted, when as a seller you have less than 500 grams in your shop, and won't get prosecuted when as a user won't have more than 5 grams on your, and won't be prosecuted if you grow 5 plants for personal use.
But the shops, are not allowed to buy their inventaris, they can't import either. And large scale growing is illegal, even more so the part where they are illegally tapping into the electricity.
But when we'd make larger scale growing legal, or even marihuana legal, the rest of the world would be very not amused. Especcially with the open border policy in most of the EU countries. Though I think it would be a great opportunity for agricultural business. You can make some big bucks with growing. I know my parents have always been wondering where my best friend's familiy is getting their money from. :lol:

But the worst effects I know of with marihuana, are people failing a year of education, because they were just non-stop blowing instead of going to school, or becoming nicotine addicts. I do however know of loads of stories involving drinking with bad endings. And even when a friend of mine got schizophrenic, he got told that the only reason he had still been able to function kinda normal for the past couple of years, was because the large amounts of marihuana he used functioned as self-medication.
Even though it is widely known that marihuana gives an increased chance of developing schizophrenia when you are predisposed to do so, apparently it is also good to use when you already have it, eh? But stress is a large factor as well, and I think in the society we are currently living in, stress is more dangerous than marihuana is when it comes to developing any psychotic episodes.

The good part of it being legal is that I even wouldn't know where to go to if I wanted to get my hands on any other drugs, but I am not really in any of those scenes, so rather obvious I don't know where to get those. With the exception of those available at smartshops. Though chances are some of these will become illegal anytime soon, with all those stupid tourists going haywire on them. Oh so much fun to be a tourist, let's just drink, smoke some weed, and use magic mushrooms at the same time we are only here for one day so that ought to be fun, maybe we can jump off a building as well, than our spirits can wander around the Netherlands forever! :roll:

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Re: Marijuana

Postby KingLoser » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:37 pm UTC

Lizzebed wrote:Though chances are some of these will become illegal anytime soon, with all those stupid tourists going haywire on them. Oh so much fun to be a tourist, let's just drink, smoke some weed, and use magic mushrooms at the same time we are only here for one day so that ought to be fun, maybe we can jump off a building as well, than our spirits can wander around the Netherlands forever! :roll:


Hahaha! This very reason I don't like going to Netherlands. I'm a tourist, but have been there over 20 times, so know not to act the ass. I cannot stand people getting off their face and feeling the need to tell you about it.

Problem is, people want to chill, but they don't know how to chill. :D
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Turambar » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:17 am UTC

engine wrote:That's some scary language you're using. The fact of the matter is, marijuana is exponentially less harmful than alcohol and tobacco, not just slightly. If you described the effects of alcohol with the same language you used there, you'd need about 10-15 paragraphs. "Significant impairment to short term memory and cognitive function while present in the body" --> Yes, of course, that's called being high. It lasts for a matter of hours. Then you turn around and say "It can ... take as much as months for THC to be fully removed from the system"... Using language like that is going to scare naive or ignorant people into thinking that weed keeps you high and affects your memory for months.

Well you know, weed might "cause significant impairment to short term memory" for a few hours, but alcohol completely fucking wipes out entire blocks of time from your memory, FOREVER. The most hardcore weekend drunks have probably lost months worth of time from their memory. And what did they do during this memory-wiped time? Stumbled around, caused fights, insulted people, sexually harassed people... What do people do when they're stoned? Sit on the couch and talk about life. They don't have that destructive desire, outside of their personal morality, like drunk people do. You'll never do something baked that you wouldn't have done sober. Alcohol does this EVERY TIME. Remind me, which is worse, again? Which is more culturally accepted? Oh nevermind, let's just believe everything we're told. Fuck our own decisions based on research. That's for pussies.

Actually, weed does have a significant, measurable effect on you for as much as a day or two afterward, though you won't generally be aware of it. And it can cause long-term impairment of short-term memory. That said, yes, I agree that weed is a more agreeable drug than alcohol in pretty much every way, unless you have asthma or something. And then you can just make brownies or use a vaporizer. Alcohol pulps your brain pretty nicely, and also has that rather unpleasant tendency to make some people belligerent and reckless.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby a thing » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:49 am UTC

Turambar wrote:Actually, weed does have a significant, measurable effect on you for as much as a day or two afterward, though you won't generally be aware of it. And it can cause long-term impairment of short-term memory.


If by "long-term imparment" you mean "a day or two afterward, though you won't generally be aware of it", yes.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby HadouKen24 » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:14 am UTC

For some long term, heavy users of cannabis--the equivalent of several joints a day, though I'm not sure of the exact number--there is evidence of apparently permanent short term memory damage.

But it's apparently not all users, and it's not an issue for recreational users.

Incidentally, I prefer to use the term "cannabis" when talking about marijuana in these kinds of contexts, especially with anti-pot individuals who haven't looked at the data. The word "marijuana" has automatic negative connotations because of regular use. These attitudes can be somewhat bypassed by referring to "cannabis" instead.

And I don't like Spanish very much. Nothing against it. I just find it aesthetically unappealing. Which is a bit strange, since I love the sound of Italian.

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Re: Marijuana

Postby cypherspace » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:36 pm UTC

HadouKen24 wrote:For some long term, heavy users of cannabis--the equivalent of several joints a day, though I'm not sure of the exact number--there is evidence of apparently permanent short term memory damage.

Citation? I've not seen this evidence.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Kachi » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:09 pm UTC

I wish more people would ingest instead of smoke it. Isn't marijuana more potent when ingested anyway?

Eh, I have an uncle who smokes and he's already next to hacking up a full lung, but that's more from his regular smoking than pot, I'm sure.

That would be my primary concern with the legalization of marijuana-- the increase in lung diseases, but that could be substantially curbed by encouraging ingestion, I should hope.

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Re: Marijuana

Postby Blipo » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:05 pm UTC

Kachi wrote:I wish more people would ingest instead of smoke it. Isn't marijuana more potent when ingested anyway?

Eh, I have an uncle who smokes and he's already next to hacking up a full lung, but that's more from his regular smoking than pot, I'm sure.

That would be my primary concern with the legalization of marijuana-- the increase in lung diseases, but that could be substantially curbed by encouraging ingestion, I should hope.


And the development of cheaper, more effective vaporizers, as well.

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Re: Marijuana

Postby Buttons » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:51 pm UTC

Kachi wrote:Isn't marijuana more potent when ingested anyway?

I don't think so, no. If people are getting higher from eating brownies, it's because brownie recipes generally call for ridiculously large quantities of pot. Mole-for-mole (that's how kids measure it these days, right?), it's probably more effective to inhale.

There's also the issue that ingested marijuana takes a lot longer to have its effects, which reminds me of an interesting exchange at a family gathering when the topic of medical marijuana came up. "Well," I said, "I've heard the problem with THC pills is that it can be hours before they work."

"No," my grandfather replied, "the problem with THC pills is that they never stay lit."

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Re: Marijuana

Postby KingLoser » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:55 pm UTC

Buttons wrote:"No," my grandfather replied, "the problem with THC pills is that they never stay lit."

Absolute genius!

Ingesting doesn't effect the potency.. that's decided at harvest, and what methods are used to dry/cure the bud. It's generally accepted that the effects last longer when ya eat it though.. I have little experience with eating, but it did seem to last longer, and maybe even a little purer. (To use a stupid word)

Too lazy to make food when I can just roll a blifter tho.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Turambar » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:05 pm UTC

Kachi wrote:I wish more people would ingest instead of smoke it. Isn't marijuana more potent when ingested anyway?

Eh, I have an uncle who smokes and he's already next to hacking up a full lung, but that's more from his regular smoking than pot, I'm sure.

That would be my primary concern with the legalization of marijuana-- the increase in lung diseases, but that could be substantially curbed by encouraging ingestion, I should hope.

Your fallacy here is that you are assuming, without any supporting evidence, that legalizing marijuana would increase overall use rates. The fact that the Netherlands has lower marijuana use rates than the United States (in fact, lower use rates for every single drug) suggests that illegality of marijuana does not do a great deal to prevent use, or that there are other more important factors in determining drug use rates.

As long as we're concerned about lung diseases and are discussing legality/illegality of drugs on the basis of their health effects, I have one word for you all: tobacco.

Ingestion decreases the intensity of the high, because the THC is not absorbed into the bloodstream through the stomach as readily as through the lungs. It also takes longer for the effect to begin, and lasts somewhat longer. It shouldn't take hours, though, especially not if those pills are any good :)
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Kachi » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:18 pm UTC

Your fallacy here is that you are assuming, without any supporting evidence, that legalizing marijuana would increase overall use rates. The fact that the Netherlands has lower marijuana use rates than the United States (in fact, lower use rates for every single drug) suggests that illegality of marijuana does not do a great deal to prevent use, or that there are other more important factors in determining drug use rates.


Or perhaps your fallacy is in assuming that the correlation of Netherlands usage rates vs. legality are causal :p

Either way, I was assuming nothing. I merely presented a concern worth consideration. I've already stated many times that I neither use marijuana nor support the effort to illegalize it.

I have one word for you all: tobacco.


Though I'm no fan of hypocrisy in law, neither do I think that two wrongs make a right. I would rather tobacco be illegal of the two, though.

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Re: Marijuana

Postby cypherspace » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:41 am UTC

Buttons wrote:
Kachi wrote:Isn't marijuana more potent when ingested anyway?

I don't think so, no. If people are getting higher from eating brownies, it's because brownie recipes generally call for ridiculously large quantities of pot. Mole-for-mole (that's how kids measure it these days, right?), it's probably more effective to inhale.

There's also the issue that ingested marijuana takes a lot longer to have its effects, which reminds me of an interesting exchange at a family gathering when the topic of medical marijuana came up. "Well," I said, "I've heard the problem with THC pills is that it can be hours before they work."

"No," my grandfather replied, "the problem with THC pills is that they never stay lit."

Inhaling gives you the effects quicker. It's not more effective, if you're smoking joints, because you lose a lot of the THC as the joint burns. Ingesting it means you lose none, provided you don't cook your brownies at too high a temperature. A vaporiser doesn't lose any THC though, and that does make it more effective.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby KingLoser » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:23 pm UTC

cypherspace wrote:
Buttons wrote:
Kachi wrote:Isn't marijuana more potent when ingested anyway?

I don't think so, no. If people are getting higher from eating brownies, it's because brownie recipes generally call for ridiculously large quantities of pot. Mole-for-mole (that's how kids measure it these days, right?), it's probably more effective to inhale.

There's also the issue that ingested marijuana takes a lot longer to have its effects, which reminds me of an interesting exchange at a family gathering when the topic of medical marijuana came up. "Well," I said, "I've heard the problem with THC pills is that it can be hours before they work."

"No," my grandfather replied, "the problem with THC pills is that they never stay lit."

Inhaling gives you the effects quicker. It's not more effective, if you're smoking joints, because you lose a lot of the THC as the joint burns. Ingesting it means you lose none, provided you don't cook your brownies at too high a temperature. A vaporiser doesn't lose any THC though, and that does make it more effective.


I've been meaning to buy a vaporiser. Used one in the Netherlands, bloody cool.

Still though, I like smoking joints.. eating it aint the same. I'm the same with bongs (sometimes), just wanna smoke a doob instead.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby cypherspace » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:26 pm UTC

KingLoser wrote:Still though, I like smoking joints.. eating it aint the same. I'm the same with bongs (sometimes), just wanna smoke a doob instead.

Same. There's something inherently relaxing about it.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Thanatos » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:45 am UTC

I'm back to add to the list another incident that just recently occurred to a friend of mine. Without giving away any personal info, someone I am very close to bought some weed from a, supposedly, trusted source. After three hits this person started feeling "bad" (I don't remember exactly how they described the feeling) and ended up hallucinating throughout the day and blacking out at least once.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby KingLoser » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:00 am UTC

Thanatos wrote:I'm back to add to the list another incident that just recently occurred to a friend of mine. Without giving away any personal info, someone I am very close to bought some weed from a, supposedly, trusted source. After three hits this person started feeling "bad" (I don't remember exactly how they described the feeling) and ended up hallucinating throughout the day and blacking out at least once.


It's this kinda shit that would stop if the market was regulated... People add in sand to give the weed more weight, so they can sell you less for more. Unfortunatly this shit can cut your lungs up. Take it out and rub it between your thumb and index finger, if you get a lot of sandy residue on your fingers, tell your dealer he got ripped off and you refuse to buy.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby drunken » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:24 am UTC

Man this is worse than I thought, you americans really have major problems with your marijuana legislation:

According to wikipedia (Drug_schedule) marijuana is more illegal than cocaine, opium and methamphetamine.

WTF!?! Why hasn't this been mentioned? Why hasn't this come up in any policy discussion in any election I can remember? These three drugs are very harmful and massively addictive, marijuana is harmless.

For the record other totally (mostly) harmless drugs I have tried from schedule 1 are:
MDMA (overrated as a drug IMO, but can be fun)
Psilocybin (can cause some psychological problems)
5-MeO-DiPT (What a wonderful drug)
LSD (can also cause psychological problems)
AMT (also fun)
BZP (this is a natural chilli extract, non addictive, and with mild effects and few side effects. What the fuck is it doing on schedule 1?)

This is a very serious issue when these harmless drugs entail massive prison terms, are more illegal than cocaine, opium and methamphetamines and no one seems to know or care why. You call yourselves the leaders of the free world but this list shows a massive lack of freedom, not to mention a massive failure of democracy, and leadership.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby a thing » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:10 pm UTC

drunken wrote:Psilocybin (can cause some psychological problems)
LSD (can also cause psychological problems)


Psychedelics do not cause psychological problems, but they can exasperate hidden ones.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby Buttons » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:58 pm UTC

a thing wrote:Psychedelics do not cause psychological problems, but they can exasperate hidden ones.

My latent psychological problems are sick and tired of all these psychedelics!

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Re: Marijuana

Postby afarnen » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:38 am UTC

Marijuana should definately be decriminalized, if not legalized. Prison is for people who harm others. The way I see it, what government needs to provide (on all topics) is scientific education. Not "thou shalt not. There are people who do criminalized and illegal drugs that aren't educated (careless drug use, not knowing what things are before jumping in and trying them), and people who don't that aren't educated (people who talk about "drugs" as if they're all the same... but NOT alcohol or tobacco or caffeine, because they're NOT drugs).

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Re: Marijuana

Postby kriel » Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:49 am UTC

After some consideration (And yes, this is a minor rehash of a previous post.) I have a proposal. Lets see if some sort of semblance of balance can be struck here, yes?

Points against 'drugs' in general that I'd like to uphold:
  • People who are under the influence (Hereforth referred to as 'high') have impaired reflexes and judgement, and as such should be considered intoxicated. Driving and Disorderly Conduct while high should be prevented, and this should be enforced by local police agencies.
  • Children should be protected (somehow) from drugs, as many are not fully matured nor of sound judgement. (Do you want 6yo's smoking?)
  • People should enjoy their freedoms so long as they doesn't infringe upon the freedoms of anyone else. (Other drivers, children, spouses, general public, etc.)

Points for drugs that I'd like to uphold.
  • People should have freedom to do what they like with their time, money, and bodies. (See above for secondary clause)
  • People should not be criminalized for their customer's acts. The person taking the drug is responsible for their actions. (Blame the people, not the drug, nor the dealer.)
  • Government bodies should not be able to restrict what is or is not sold; It should be the customer's responsibility to buy or not buy as they choose. (Obviously, the seller would have the option to sell or not sell as well.) (This has more far-reaching implications, namely towards the FDA in general, that are beyond the scope of this post.)


The only thing I don't see in this list that I'd like addressed is that of 'bad' parenting and child services, and it's correlation to parental drug use. For the most part, in the case of Marijuana, I don't see this being an issue, however [Anecdotal Evidence] I have seen families that there was nothing child services could do, however the quality of life for the children was horrible. From my experience, the major contributing factors were the amount of drug use in the parental structures of the families. [/Anecdotal] However, I don't see a positive, objective way to do this.

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Re: Marijuana

Postby Mountainhawk » Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:55 am UTC

Looks like here in Massachusetts we may see small amounts of marijuana decriminalized by ballot initiative this November.
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Re: Marijuana

Postby FourLetterWord » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:39 am UTC

Buttons wrote:
a thing wrote:Psychedelics do not cause psychological problems, but they can exasperate hidden ones.

My latent psychological problems are sick and tired of all these psychedelics!


most people can use as directed but its pretty fair to point out that a handful cant

you'd be hard-pressed to find a long term acid user who didnt at least have a couple stories about people going around the bend


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