eating meat

For the serious discussion of weighty matters and worldly issues. No off-topic posts allowed.

Moderators: Azrael, Moderators General, Prelates

are you vegetarian?

yes
187
18%
no
868
82%
 
Total votes: 1055

User avatar
jordan
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:41 pm UTC
Location: Coventry

Postby jordan » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:28 pm UTC

Incidentally, in the case of the above problem, I bite the bullet. If a superlatively intelligent entity had reason to kill a human for comfort or survival, I'd say it was OK, just the same as I think it's acceptable for me to kill a tuna and eat it. However, I don't feel that it's nearly clear-cut enough in the case of animals as smart as, say, pigs. So I arbitrarily restrict myself to fish, shellfish and insects.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:31 pm UTC

So I arbitrarily restrict myself to fish, shellfish and insects.


I'm actually considering avoiding fish and crustaceans because of environmental issues. So I'll be swinging the other way: mammals and birds, fine, but no sea creatures.

Incidentally, in the case of the above problem, I bite the bullet. If a superlatively intelligent entity had reason to kill a human for comfort or survival, I'd say it was OK, just the same as I think it's acceptable for me to kill a tuna and eat it.


Morally, I'd say it was fine.

That said, I wouldn't lay down and accept it. Just because it's morally *okay* for the aliens to consume me as food doesn't mean I'm going to make it easy for them.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Phenriz
I'm daaancin' like a monkey!
Posts: 2450
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:33 pm UTC
Contact:

Postby Phenriz » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:43 pm UTC

fjafjan wrote:
wisnij wrote:In that case, have a steak. (Personally, I wouldn't have any problem eating a steak or hamburger or something while reading that page, but that's just me.)


Yeah I don't think I would either, I really think the arguments for vegetarianism are pretty BS, I try to support more ethical meat, just because I am going to eat the cow I don't think they should be treated that friggin terribly, au contraire, but yeah, in itself I don't mind.


same, we dissected cows heads in anatomy and physiology class, this just looks like a refresher course with extra material, i want wait for lunch, beef fajita-like-things!
I loveded you piggy, i lovded youuuu!!!

User avatar
jordan
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:41 pm UTC
Location: Coventry

Postby jordan » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:45 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
So I arbitrarily restrict myself to fish, shellfish and insects.


I'm actually considering avoiding fish and crustaceans because of environmental issues. So I'll be swinging the other way: mammals and birds, fine, but no sea creatures.


I agree that ecological impact may pwn estimated sentience in certain situations.

Just because it's morally *okay* for the aliens to consume me as food doesn't mean I'm going to make it easy for them.


Hell, no—just because it has a moral justification for eating us doesn't invalidate our self-interest! :D

User avatar
eternauta3k
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:19 am UTC
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Postby eternauta3k » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:15 pm UTC

Belial wrote:That said, I do try to avoid south american beef, not because I'm trying to spare the cows, but because I'm trying to spare the rainforest. They slash and burn a *lot* of forest to raise those things.

Which kills a lot of animals I *do* care about.

Hey, some s.a. countries export beef and don't have rainforests...
VectorZero wrote:It takes a real man to impact his own radius

That's right, slash your emo-wrists and spill all your emo-globin

lukkucairi
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 9:33 pm UTC

Postby lukkucairi » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:23 pm UTC

Belial wrote:So I'll be swinging the other way: mammals and birds, fine, but no sea creatures.


last I heard, farmed catfish and tilapia were OK-ish environmentally and didn't have high heavy metal content like seafish.

god, I love me some seafood though. catfish is so bland.

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 26518
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:51 pm UTC

lukkucairi wrote:
Belial wrote:So I'll be swinging the other way: mammals and birds, fine, but no sea creatures.


last I heard, farmed catfish and tilapia were OK-ish environmentally and didn't have high heavy metal content like seafish.

god, I love me some seafood though. catfish is so bland.


Pocket Good Fish Guide to the rescue!!! (Warning - PDF Link.)

Also, Fish Online apparently lets you search based on species of fish and gives a quick synopsis of how bad they are to eat, based on fishing habits.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
mosc
Doesn't care what you think.
Posts: 5402
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 3:03 pm UTC

Postby mosc » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:17 pm UTC

I don't eat mammals but I'm all about chicken and turkey. Technically that means I'm not a vegetarian (although the term vegitarian is pretty nebulous anyway IE if you eat fish or not doesn't seem to matter) but apparently something called a Pollotarianism. We even get our own wiki description!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollotarianism

I think the term "nonmammalivore" is more accurate for me though
Last edited by mosc on Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:21 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:19 pm UTC

I don't eat mammals but I'm all about chicken and turkey.


I'm curious as to your reasons here. Do you consider mammals to be a "higher" order of animals?

I ask because I used to think the same thing, but at this point I'm realizing that birds and mammals are pretty much parallel.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Mighty Jalapeno
Inne Juste 7 Dayes I Wille Make You A Hero!
Posts: 11265
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm UTC
Location: Prince George In A Can
Contact:

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:21 pm UTC

"Pesce-pollotarianism" (or chickifishitarian) is a pejorative neologism. Cool, my wife is a pejorative neologism!

There are many rationales for maintaining a pollo-vegetarian diet. One is that of health, based on findings that red meat is detrimental to health in many cases due to non-lean red meats containing high amounts of saturated fats. [1] [2]

For some the rationale is ethics: believing that either the treatment, or simply the killing and eating, of mass market "meat" mammals is unethical. The rationalization for eating chickens in this case is usually either "I have to eat some kind of meat" (see complete protein) or "chickens are less intelligent than other animals".

This is also the first step to becoming a strict vegetarian. By cutting out the less healthy meat products and focusing on a certain diet you can eventually wean yourself of all meats, including chicken, and gradually fish, and even as far as milk and egg products if you wish.

User avatar
mosc
Doesn't care what you think.
Posts: 5402
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 3:03 pm UTC

Postby mosc » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:25 pm UTC

I was half hoping you'd ask that Belial. I have no scientific reason for the distinction but I decided I would not eat mammals. Thus, birds are the mainstay of my diet. Turkey bacon, Turkey chili, Turkey cold cuts, chicken soup, you get the idea. I'd probably be more vegitarian if I could stand most vegetables.

I do have, em, spiritual reasons for it though. I decided I wasn't a canibal first. Then I decided that there was no real difference between eating a human and eating a gorilla. My slippery slope worked down the other side as well trying to really grasp the difference between a plant and a reptile so I came at it from both ends figuring I'd at least have to eat something and I didn't want to eat something close to human so anything non-mammal would work.

The reason for the internal debate though was watching a special on Coco the gorilla. Changed my life. I'll get into that if anybody cares.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:35 pm UTC

See, I consider "like human" to mean "reasonably intelligent". Which is why I don't eat:

Apes
Monkeys
Dogs
Elephants
Cetaceans
Crows
Ravens
Parrots
Assorted other clever birds
Octopi

(Some of these are a lot easier to avoid than others. How often is one served elephant or raven?)

And otherwise I try to limit my diet to animals that are dumb as a particularly slow brick (Cows, Chickens, Deer, Fish, etcetera.)
Last edited by Belial on Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:55 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Mighty Jalapeno
Inne Juste 7 Dayes I Wille Make You A Hero!
Posts: 11265
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm UTC
Location: Prince George In A Can
Contact:

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:37 pm UTC

But octopi are so TASTY!!

Image

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:38 pm UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:But octopi are so TASTY!!


I KNOW!

It's the only part of my list that gives me trouble.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Phenriz
I'm daaancin' like a monkey!
Posts: 2450
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:33 pm UTC
Contact:

Postby Phenriz » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:54 pm UTC

no dolphins on that list?

for shame.
I loveded you piggy, i lovded youuuu!!!

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:55 pm UTC

OH! I knew I was forgetting something:

Cetaceans.

Editing to reflect.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Mighty Jalapeno
Inne Juste 7 Dayes I Wille Make You A Hero!
Posts: 11265
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm UTC
Location: Prince George In A Can
Contact:

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:57 pm UTC

But dolphins are so TASTY!!

Image

User avatar
Phenriz
I'm daaancin' like a monkey!
Posts: 2450
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:33 pm UTC
Contact:

Postby Phenriz » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:58 pm UTC

good yob.

That said, if i were in a survival situation, i'll eat any and all of the animals on your list.

@Jalapena: that does look good, i'd eat dolphin just once to know what it tastes like.
I loveded you piggy, i lovded youuuu!!!

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:58 pm UTC

Phenriz wrote:That said, if i were in a survival situation, i'll eat any and all of the animals on your list.


I think anyone would eat anything in a survival situation, including other people.

Starving to death sucks a lot, and you have a *lot* of time to reconsider your moral objections.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

lukkucairi
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 9:33 pm UTC

Postby lukkucairi » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:01 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Assorted other clever birds


I just wanted to point out: chickens = unclever!

domestic turkeys are also pretty lacking in intelligence. wild turkeys are cunning, though...but they taste better :wink:

I have killed and eaten conch - I'd say only about 1 in 7 are actually aware that they're being killed. an awful lot of life is pretty simple and doesn't bother with stuff like fear of dying.

even some mammals (e.g. cows) don't have forethought enough to be afraid of the slaughterhouse, if it's designed not to spook them.

anyone here ever read any of Temple Grandin's work on the subject?

User avatar
arbivark
Posts: 531
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 5:29 am UTC

Postby arbivark » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:07 pm UTC

The longest-running game in our house is "Who has tried more new foods?" He knows that I am trying to eat more fruits and veggies, so we keep track of who tries something they've never had before. He was winning, 23 to 16 when he inexplicably restarted the count, and now it's, like, 8 to 4 for him.
Cool game! We should all play. One of the serendipitous benefits of being vegetarian is that people who eat consciously tend to eat a wider range of foods, which tends to be healthier.

I love meat, but I'd be willing to try veggie for a few weeks for free. It would be an interesting experiment just to see how much I miss my pork fat.
I'm not sure in the end how this helps your moral issues though. Unless you put so much value on the 2 or 3 chickens that would be spared by having only one person eating meat for 3 weeks instead of 2. Otherwise it sees like a very marginal gain for the animal community.

Yay! Deal. My study, if I get into it, runs 7/20 to 8/1.

If his vegetarianism was on moral or ethical grounds then I am disappointed that he would consider suspending those ethics/morals for a bit of cash. I suppose "everyone has his price".

I know that this is an argument against the person but I have problem with giving up my beliefs for money. I believe it's wrong to kill people; I would not start killing people just because I could earn some money that way, not even if I could persuade someone who would normally kill people to stop during the time that I carried out my contract killings.


I'm not thrilled about it myself. My current job involves killing and lying, which are unrighteous. I try to live righteously. I do have my price. In this case, it runs about $200/day. There are things I won't do for money, or at least haven't done yet.
My ethics involve a large number of duties, which occasionally conflict.
I have an ethical obligation to pay my rent. When I signed the lease, I didn't know the IRS was going to steal all my money.

I generally aspire to live like [Jesus] and Gandhi, but lazier and without the martyrdom part. Usually my diet is freegan - I eat food that big companies throw away and I scavenge.

By the way, there's a guy at work who wears a T-shirt with the words: "For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat THREE"

Bite him for me, wouldja?
Rather than trying to argue with people who are militantly unvegetarian,
I usually just bite them. Occasionally, they become enlightened.

Apes
Monkeys
Dogs
Elephants
Cetaceans
Crows
Ravens
Parrots
Assorted other clever birds
Octopi


I respect that approach, although I take it a little further.
If dogs are your list, consider also pigs horses humans.
If parrots are on your list, consider also cows.
(Parrots are better at language than many other animals, but
intelligence isn't just about language.)
Last edited by arbivark on Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:15 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Mighty Jalapeno
Inne Juste 7 Dayes I Wille Make You A Hero!
Posts: 11265
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm UTC
Location: Prince George In A Can
Contact:

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:09 pm UTC

arbivark wrote:I'm not thrilled about it myself. My current job involves killing and lying, which are unrighteous. I try to live righteously. I do have my price. In this case, it runs about $200/day. There are things I won't do for money, or at least haven't done yet.

Ahh... in the Army, eh?

User avatar
arbivark
Posts: 531
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 5:29 am UTC

Postby arbivark » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:18 pm UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:
arbivark wrote:I'm not thrilled about it myself. My current job involves killing and lying, which are unrighteous. I try to live righteously. I do have my price. In this case, it runs about $200/day. There are things I won't do for money, or at least haven't done yet.

Ahh... in the Army, eh?


No, that's one of those things I won't do for money. I do medical studies for drug companies, renting myself out as an experimental animal. In the army, you give up the decision about who you kill and why. Before I kill somebody, I consider it on a case by case basis. Haven't killed <s>anybody</s> any human yet. In one case I probably should have - he went on to kill two people after he tried to kill me.
Last edited by arbivark on Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:20 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mighty Jalapeno
Inne Juste 7 Dayes I Wille Make You A Hero!
Posts: 11265
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm UTC
Location: Prince George In A Can
Contact:

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:19 pm UTC

arbivark wrote:
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:
arbivark wrote:I'm not thrilled about it myself. My current job involves killing and lying, which are unrighteous. I try to live righteously. I do have my price. In this case, it runs about $200/day. There are things I won't do for money, or at least haven't done yet.

Ahh... in the Army, eh?


No, that's one of those things I won't do for money. I do medical studies for drug companies, renting myself out as an experimental animal.

I know, it was an attempt at political humor. $200 a day would buy a lot of my lesser morals, too.

User avatar
Phenriz
I'm daaancin' like a monkey!
Posts: 2450
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:33 pm UTC
Contact:

Postby Phenriz » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:31 pm UTC

No one has mentioned cats yet, so cats are fair game?

awesome!
I loveded you piggy, i lovded youuuu!!!

lukkucairi
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 9:33 pm UTC

Postby lukkucairi » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:36 pm UTC

arbivark wrote:
I respect that approach, although I take it a little further.
If dogs are your list, consider also pigs horses humans.
If parrots are on your list, consider also cows.
(Parrots are better at language than many other animals, but
intelligence isn't just about language.)


ooh, parrots are cunning little buggers. they aren't just linguistic - they're capable of impressive feats of social manipulation.

I would not eat a parrot unless the circumstances were extraordinary.

I think if you're starving in the bush, and you can trap a parrot and eat it to keep yourself alive, then that's between you and the parrot.

I draw my "I prefer not to eat..." lines more around what's endangered than what's intelligent - I'd feel far worse about eating a sea turtle than eating a pork chop, though pigs are arguably far more intelligent than turtles. I've eaten sea turtle twice - it wasn't my choice either time, but I ate as much of it as I could once it was served to me - I felt that putting the meat in the garbage was a far worse crime than eating a turtle that had already been killed - at least the meat could nourish my body.

User avatar
Mighty Jalapeno
Inne Juste 7 Dayes I Wille Make You A Hero!
Posts: 11265
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm UTC
Location: Prince George In A Can
Contact:

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:37 pm UTC

No, we talk about eating kitty in the OTHER thread....

Also, numbers don't lie.

User avatar
Phenriz
I'm daaancin' like a monkey!
Posts: 2450
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:33 pm UTC
Contact:

Postby Phenriz » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:40 pm UTC

Yup, what ^she(?) said sounds good to me.

If it's packaged and in the Butcher's Shop or the grocery store, i feel no moral objection about putting it on my range then my plate, ultimately my stomach.


Plants are living creatures too. We shouldn't kill them.
I loveded you piggy, i lovded youuuu!!!

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:41 pm UTC

I respect that approach, although I take it a little further.
If dogs are your list, consider also pigs horses humans.


Pigs should really be on my list. I consider the fact that they aren't to be a great hypocrisy on my part. Really. I do.

But damn if they aren't delicious.

If parrots are on your list, consider also cows.
(Parrots are better at language than many other animals, but
intelligence isn't just about language.)


As Lukku points out, parrots aren't just on there because of language. They're just *smart*. The fact that certain species can also interact, *in english*, on the level of a 2-or-3-year-old child, just makes that fact easier to see.

Now why cows? They're pretty damn dumb.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

lukkucairi
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 9:33 pm UTC

Postby lukkucairi » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:02 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Now why cows? They're pretty damn dumb.


they wouldn't survive very long without people to tend them and keep away the predators, either.

an adjunct question that could be split from this thread is, "is domestication moral?"

on topic, though - cows (and sheep, specifically) are pretty lacking in IQ, but they're capable of feeling fear. what they're not capable of is forethought and speculation. they get spooked by strange things, but not by the idea of strange things, if this makes sense. if you treat them well during their lives, help them propagate their species, and you don't make their death a frightful thing, what's wrong with eating them?

User avatar
mosc
Doesn't care what you think.
Posts: 5402
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 3:03 pm UTC

Postby mosc » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:22 pm UTC

cows are only dumb because we've bred them that way. You could breed stupid people just as easy and create a race of slaves you never educate and feed processed grains to fatten them up until you slaughter them all at age 18 or something. I don't think it would be any more or less humane with humans than cows.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:24 pm UTC

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that cows were pretty dumb before we started breeding them for meat rather than smarts. Herd herbivores generally are (notable exception for elephants, oddly).

Granted, they're *even dumber* now, but even pre-breeding, I don't think they'd have met my personal intelligence cutoff. Modern day wildebeasts or bison don't hold much of a candle to an african gray parrot or an elephant.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Briareos
Posts: 1940
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:40 pm UTC
Location: Town of the Big House

Postby Briareos » Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:59 am UTC

mosc wrote:You could breed stupid people just as easy and create a race of slaves you never educate and feed processed grains to fatten them up until you slaughter them all at age 18 or something.


I think that there is a fair bit of difference between the intelligence level of an uneducated human and that of a cow. As has been mentioned above (albeit without support), cows are incapable of "forethought and speculation." Presumably, this means they don't know any better than to keep doing what they're doing as long as they're fed and comfortable. Humans might appreciate the food and comfort, but I'd suggest there are probably some (even among the stupid ones) who would resent being kept as slaves -- even if they didn't know they were going to be slaughtered and consumed.

My point, then, is that it would be extremely difficult to breed a race of humans so dumb that they would willingly submit to slavery. I submit, in fact, that such a plan would be less moral than the current treatment of cows.
Sandry wrote:Bless you, Briareos.

Blriaraisghaasghoasufdpt.
Oregonaut wrote:Briareos is my new bestest friend.

User avatar
arbivark
Posts: 531
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 5:29 am UTC

Postby arbivark » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:23 am UTC

Briareos wrote:
mosc wrote:
My point, then, is that it would be extremely difficult to breed a race of humans so dumb that they would willingly submit to slavery. I submit, in fact, that such a plan would be less moral than the current treatment of cows.


Around here, we call them "taxpayers" or "students".
See also Harlan Ellison, The Farm, in Dangerous Visions anthology. Vonnegut, Player Piano, "Takuru"

User avatar
Briareos
Posts: 1940
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:40 pm UTC
Location: Town of the Big House

Postby Briareos » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:57 am UTC

arbivark wrote:Around here, we call them "taxpayers" or "students".


But we aren't fattening taxpayers up in order to eat them. Paying taxes is an incidental part of living in a particular society, and while within that society you're still able to do what you want, within limits.

Possible objection: what if we let the slaves / food sources do whatever they want while we fatten them? Wouldn't that be the same thing?

I don't think so, because it's still raising them to a particular end purpose. My (unclear) point was supposed to be that I do not believe an entire race would uniformly accept a particular end-purpose to their lives foisted upon them from without.

I have read "Player Piano," but that was a long time ago.

Also: this may be a topic for another thread; I don't know whether people would want to get back to the morality of meat in general. By the way, I find meats of all kinds to be extremely delicious.
Sandry wrote:Bless you, Briareos.

Blriaraisghaasghoasufdpt.
Oregonaut wrote:Briareos is my new bestest friend.

User avatar
Phenriz
I'm daaancin' like a monkey!
Posts: 2450
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:33 pm UTC
Contact:

Postby Phenriz » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:46 am UTC

Harlan Ellison is a hack. The Farm was good.
I loveded you piggy, i lovded youuuu!!!

User avatar
Djsavestheday
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:59 pm UTC
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby Djsavestheday » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:51 am UTC

If the arguement for killing livestock for food is that because the animals are stupid, or don't behave rationally, then why don't we treat humans who are stupid or don't behave rationally the same way (the mentally hadicapped, for example). This has been bugging me since I stumbled upon the wikipedia for Speciesism.

On a related note, does the 'don't eat anything you wouldn't feel comfortable killing yourself' idea remind anyone of the Restaurant At the End of the Universe from the Hitchhiker's Guide? If I remember correctly the waiter was a cow who would let you examine him, recomend parts of himself and then promptly shoot himself in order for the steaks to be prepared.[/url]
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

User avatar
Phenriz
I'm daaancin' like a monkey!
Posts: 2450
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:33 pm UTC
Contact:

Postby Phenriz » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:58 am UTC

Djsavestheday wrote:If the arguement for killing livestock for food is that because the animals are stupid, or don't behave rationally, then why don't we treat humans who are stupid or don't behave rationally the same way (the mentally hadicapped, for example). This has been bugging me since I stumbled upon the wikipedia for Speciesism.


Other than the fact that cannibalism is very much frowned upon, and the meat from cows tastes delicious.

them being extremely dumb is only another part of the equation.
I loveded you piggy, i lovded youuuu!!!

Fluff
See You Next Tuesday
Posts: 1085
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:27 am UTC
Location: The Departure Lounge

Postby Fluff » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:37 am UTC

MEAT. Tonight I've had chicken, beef, AND salmon. MMMmmm. :P

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:54 am UTC

Djsavestheday wrote:If the arguement for killing livestock for food is that because the animals are stupid, or don't behave rationally, then why don't we treat humans who are stupid or don't behave rationally the same way (the mentally hadicapped, for example). This has been bugging me since I stumbled upon the wikipedia for Speciesism.


Most livestock animals would need three genies and a brain transplant to even approach most mentally handicapped folk.

Find me a cow with an IQ of 50, and I'll drop beef tomorrow.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them


Return to “Serious Business”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests